Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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Iggy
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"Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Wed 27 Jul 03:01post reply

The first two are being worked upon.

The last one is killing me.






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sabo10
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"Re(1):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Wed 27 Jul 04:28post reply

Ibara is too hard.

The bullets move too fast

Your ship moves too fast

The animation of the bullets flicker in a way
that makes them difficult to keep track of.

Almost everything in the game is colored blue/violet which makes the bullets hard to see.

Exploded ships throw off debris that looks like bullets.

In later levels, bosses have attacks that virtually require you to use one of those big vortex creating bombs.





jiji
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"Re(2):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Wed 27 Jul 05:24post reply

quote:
In later levels, bosses have attacks that virtually require you to use one of those big vortex creating bombs.

Even the top players making superplays have settled on this 'strategy' for the bosses. It sounds pretty ridiculous. I want to buy the game whenever it gets ported, but...I'll probably keep it on 'easy.'





Pollyanna
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"Re(3):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Wed 27 Jul 05:34post reply

Arghhh! It's getting so damned hard to love shooters unless you REALLY love shooters. This new crazy crap just keeps coming out and the only thing I can handle are the Touhou games (which are my favorites anyway).

I spent a little time with Mushihimesama and I think the bullets in THAT move too fast. I can handle the game OK in arrange mode, though. Well, I can make it about halfway through the 4th level, which isn't great, but since I've only played the game 3 times, that's decent.

I miss the days of shooters that had limited continues and took about a week to get down.





Iggy
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"Re(4):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Wed 27 Jul 07:23post reply

Wasn't Gigawing 2 the same ?
Like, the best way to beat the last bosses was doing bomb - reflect force -bomb - reflect force -bomb - reflect force -bomb - reflect force until the boss dies or you run out of bombs ?





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"Re(5):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Wed 27 Jul 07:47post reply

quote:
Wasn't Gigawing 2 the same ?
Like, the best way to beat the last bosses was doing bomb - reflect force -bomb - reflect force -bomb - reflect force -bomb - reflect force until the boss dies or you run out of bombs ?



Depends. That's definitely the easiest way, with one player. Not necessarily the best way, from what I hear.

It's fun with more players and few/no bombs, because then you can try surviving by doing successive reflect forces... and you can have fun yelling at the guy who got the timing wrong.

Polly:
Just keep in mind that all these games are Cave games, and Cave games... have a tendency to play like Cave games. I don't really like the style of HUGE BULLET SPAM that Cave espouses, but that's their style and some people like it that way.

Yeah, I do kinda prefer games that seem... easier? Dunno if that's the right word for it. Say, I find the challenges of Ikaruga, Gradius V, Gyruss, etc. a bit easier but more balanced-seeming, and that to me seems more fun. The thing I like about the Touhou games is that on the normal or even a bit above normal difficulty, nothing seems impossible even on your first try... and admittedly, that is a way of saying, "this game is easier." Whereas, I watch the boss of DoDonPachi Daioujou on the Super Replay, and I just think to myself, "this is NOT worth it."





hikarutilmitt
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"Re(2):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Wed 27 Jul 08:12post reply

quote:
Ibara is too hard.

The bullets move too fast

Your ship moves too fast

The animation of the bullets flicker in a way
that makes them difficult to keep track of.

Almost everything in the game is colored blue/violet which makes the bullets hard to see.

Exploded ships throw off debris that looks like bullets.

In later levels, bosses have attacks that virtually require you to use one of those big vortex creating bombs.



But, but, this is the perfect marriage of Cave and Raizing shmups! It's BEAUTIFUL!!!

Or something. I still want to play it. Garegga is my favorite shmup, and Cave gameplay in it just... yeah.





Pollyanna
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"Re(6):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Wed 27 Jul 10:01post reply

I don't remember Gigawing 2 being very difficult. (though maybe that's not the point)

Anyway, I also don't remember old Cave games being quite as crazy. I thought Guwange was too easy, actually. Maybe someone can blame Atlus' involvement.

Anyway, the thing is, some shooters are difficult in a way that is just totally beyond me. With older shooters, if I played and played them, I could memorize patterns and such, but with so many new ones, there's this level of precision where you have to get within a pixel that I absolutely can't touch (and never will). It's hardcore for the hardcore I guess, though I think real shooter fans probably think normal mode is a joke. I think if I can't win a shooter on 3 continues, then I shouldn't be playing.

I liked Gradius V a lot and it was refreshing to play a shooter that utilized the entire screen. I mean...well, you MOVED around the screen more than in other shooters. The level design was really amazing. But...like with all Gradius/Parodius games, I can't stand the power up system, because there's always that point where you lose everything and you're better off just quiting.





Ammadeau
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"Re(7):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Wed 27 Jul 20:17post reply

I agree Cave seems to becoming more and more specialized in catering only to the hardest of the hardcore, and upping their bullet counts on every turn. I think they do it with the belief that if they didn't do it, people would think they were going soft. It's an odd sort of macho videogame reflex.





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jiji
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"Re(8):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Thu 28 Jul 00:19post reply

quote:
I agree Cave seems to becoming more and more specialized in catering only to the hardest of the hardcore, and upping their bullet counts on every turn. I think they do it with the belief that if they didn't do it, people would think they were going soft. It's an odd sort of macho videogame reflex.



They have to push further into shooter-maniac territory with their scoring systems and bullet patterns and chaining, otherwise their core fanbase would get bored. But I think they definitely have a desire to pull in new fans.

Each successive game of theirs after DOJ (Ibara excluded?) has been more newbie-friendly than the last. Espgaluda's scoring and survival ends are almost completely separate - going for a 1CC isn't a major task, relatively, but the amount of room for scoring is huge. Likewise with Mushi, Original mode is made to cater to beginning players. The bullets are fast, but they're sparse and they're more like the ones found in pre-manic shooters like Raiden. The lack of a well-defined scoring layer in Original should help things be a bit less confusing, too. Both games have less of a barrier to entry-level play than previous games of theirs, and both (and even Ibara) have recognizable characters featured more prominently than ever before. I think it's a trend that will continue, because it seems to have been successful for them so far.





sabo10
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"Re(9):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Thu 28 Jul 00:35post reply

I think Mushihime Manaic is easier than Original.





jiji
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"Re(10):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Thu 28 Jul 00:54post reply

quote:
I think Mushihime Manaic is easier than Original.


Actually, me too, because I'm used to dealing with slowish patterns instead of fast Psikyo bullets.





Pollyanna
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"Re(2):Re(10):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Thu 28 Jul 07:02post reply

Well, I wouldn't say their games cater to "beginners" (to shooting games at least) but as I find Mushihimesama's original mode at least somewhat playable, it must cater to some lower common denominator. The bottom line is, I don't think I'll ever be able to win it, though.

The issue here might be that I'm just not good enough at shooting games. I would say I'm not devoted enough, but the problem is I'm not getting much better the more I play. Even if I can see shots coming, I can't match the level of precision they need from me.





kurushimi
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"Re(3):Re(10):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Thu 28 Jul 08:48post reply

quote:
Well, I wouldn't say their games cater to "beginners" (to shooting games at least) but as I find Mushihimesama's original mode at least somewhat playable, it must cater to some lower common denominator. The bottom line is, I don't think I'll ever be able to win it, though.

The issue here might be that I'm just not good enough at shooting games. I would say I'm not devoted enough, but the problem is I'm not getting much better the more I play. Even if I can see shots coming, I can't match the level of precision they need from me.



I think there just needs to be more of a gradual curve in the difficulty. I mean, spamming the screen with bullets in just the first level is too much fustration factor. Perhaps this is the game showing its arcade roots, as they ARE supposed to be quarter munchers.

Speaking of character-based shooters, I wonder how Shikigami no Shiro 3 is shaping up...





Iggy
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"Re(4):Re(10):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Thu 28 Jul 08:59:post reply

quote:
I think there just needs to be more of a gradual curve in the difficulty. I mean, spamming the screen with bullets in just the first level is too much fustration factor.

On the other hand, it makes the first level boring as hell once you know them well.
I'd rather have a game with a first level as difficult as the last.

As for Shikigami 3, the official site has been erased, and the team really seems it is facing huge problems in the development of the game.
It looked like a direct sequel to Shikigami 2 though.... problems inside the team ?
The popularity of the characters totally vanished in the meantime.





[this message was edited by Iggy on Thu 28 Jul 09:07]

NARUTO
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"Re(5):Re(10):Espgaluda 2, Ibara 2, hangover" , posted Thu 28 Jul 18:16post reply

This only proove one things to me:
some time ago many player were complaining that the Shump is a dead style with no more player, because the 3D is comming, because the market was different, because... Like many other style..."Cough2DvsCough"

Well what ever! And seeing that 2 game of a "dead" style are sucessfull, only show me one thing ANY kind of game, whatever the style is, can be sucsessfull if there are well done...TAKE THE LESSON CAPCOM & IMOYA!!!

BAck on topic, I glad to see thos sequel, especialy Mushihime sama...






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