| Original message (6902 Views )
|
Replies: |
| Iggy 6763th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
     
     
     
     
     
|  "The private life of Chaz&Iggy" , posted Sat 18 Jun 16:26
#Chazumarocks* dit :
So, Iggy.
Iggy dit :
yeeeeeeeeees ?
#Chazumarocks* dit :
Are you in a good mood ?
Iggy dit :
..........................................I don't like the sound of it
Iggy dit :
Bring it on
Chazumarocks* dit :
http://www.largeprimenumbers.com/article.php?sid=saga
Iggy dit :
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
#Chazumarocks* dit :
...strangely, I think it's one of his most constructed articles [note : of course it is, he's trying to talk about the game this time, an entirely new concept]
Iggy dit :
Mmmmmokay, I read the first sentence, I had enough.
Iggy dit :
What is this stupid shit ?
#Chazumarocks* dit :
A site for which Tim is working
Iggy dit :
He wrote that ?
#Chazumarocks* dit :
Of course
Chazumarocks* dit :
I wouldn't make you read anybody's RS article
Iggy dit :
Ah, then I'll read
Iggy dit :
and laugh
ggy dit :
Oh god is he stupid
Iggy dit :
Christ, he's really stupid
Iggy dit :
Hos can you say such things after having even touched the games he's talking about ?
Iggy dit :
No, he's really completely stupid, I can't take it anymore
Iggy dit :
POSTMODERN ! What a moron
Iggy dit :
What the hell is he talking about
Iggy dit :
What an imbecile
Iggy dit :
He's making shit up, what is he talking about ?
Iggy dit :
THREE HOURS !? Who the hell does he think he is, the little brat?
Iggy dit :
Paper thin WHAT ?
Iggy dit :
Shut up you
Iggy dit :
Oh god, he's spitting on RS2 and 3, he's going to die
Iggy dit :
WTF
Iggy dit :
BUT HE IS TOTALLY INSANE
Iggy dit :
What an imbecile
Iggy dit :
He is totally stupid
Iggy dit :
Is he illiterate in japanese, or is it just that he doesn't know how to read ?
Iggy dit :
What the hell is he talking about ?
Iggy dit :
But it's totally untrue ? He's lying the asshole !
Iggy dit :
what a moron
Iggy dit :
He's making shit up
Iggy dit :
He's lying !
Iggy dit :
Is he talking about Soulcalibur there ?
Iggy dit :
But he is stupid !
Iggy dit :
He plays badly and then he says it the game's fault ?
Iggy dit :
Not only does he play badly, but he is also stupid
Iggy dit :
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Iggy dit :
But he doesn't know how to play !
Iggy dit :
Asshole ! Asshole !
Iggy dit :
ASSHOLE !
Iggy dit :
HE'S FUCKING LYING !
#Chazumarocks* dit :
(my work here is done)
ねんがんの ネ申ゲーをてにいれたぞ！
|
| Pollyanna 1190th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Pielle the Tailor" , posted Sun 19 Jun 06:44
Warning: Lengthy Minstrel Song/Fairytale post
OK, I'll answer my own question. Too much pretentious text. Still, I think once you get to the review, it's valuable, especially to people who have been corrupted by Iggy's biased views on Minstrel Song. Tim's review captures what most people will experience when they play Minstrel Song. Some of the things he complained about, wetr off, but many of his points really made me laugh, because I had gone through the same thing. He got a few things totally wrong, though, which is odd, considering that he said he played the game so much.
But that also tells you something about the game. Some of the systems are so afflicted that you can't even figure them out unless you have a guide. They may work and Iggy may say that having them be totally backwards is a good thing, but I think that's stretching the truth. Minstrel Song works and it's a good game, but you have to like suffering and confusion at least a little bit. I want to say "Don't play the game without a guide", but then you don't get the whole painful experience. But if you DO play without a guide, then you don't get to appreciate a lot of the game. I think Iggy has the right idea by waiting for the Ultimania before playing any more. For someone else, I think not playing at all is the right idea.
But I realize that there are people who kowtow to Iggy and moreso, there are people who want to be "the chosen". When someone like Iggy (or me) makes Minstrel Song out to be something that only special people can enjoy, naturally, everyone wants to be special. I think if someone taunted me with a game I wasn't supposed to like, I would try and like it just to prove that I can. That's human nature. Let me illustrate this with a fairytale.
Pielle The Tailor
Once upon a time, there was a magical city in a magical land that was neighter clean nor dirty. The sky was neither bright nor dull and it smelled neither fragrant nor putrid. In this land there were things of beauty and things of corruption. There was creeping homosexuality at every corner and madness in the air. It was exactly as the inhabitants would want it.
In this city, there was a famous tailor named Pielle, who made the most magical and fashionable clothes in the land. The inhabitants of the great city admired Pielle's impeccable taste and his fashions were visible everywhere the eye could see.
One fateful day, when Pielle was especially drunk and crazy, he made a most fabulous fashionable creation. This creation combined so many different colors and materials that one simply did not know where to look when they gazed upon it. It was a work of genius and a work of insanity.
Pielle climbed to the highest tower and called out to the city, spreading his passion for his new article of clothing. Soon, eveyone in the city was wearing his monsterous new fashion.
"I love how it chafes me!" one woman exclaimed.
"I love how I can't find matching shoes!" another man, who had scoured the city for shoes and not slept in days, cried.
"I love how it makes me too cold AND too hot at the same time!" said a boy who was both sweating and bleeding from wearing the clothes.
"I like it too. But I don't know why." said a girl, who, like Pielle, was crazy enough to like the fashion, but not drunk enough to know why.
Plagued by Pielle's ill-fitting (but fabulous!) clothing, the people of the city became weak and tired. Many of them died and those who lived, lived poorly. Suddenly, taking advantage of their weakness, alien invaders came to conquer the land. Pielle was too busy masturbating to do anything about it, and he was just a tailor anyway. Some crazy guy called on Ultraman to save the day, and it actually worked. When the aliens were all dead, then everyone went to a Twisted Sister concert. Afterwards, Koizumi was re-elected and everyone lived happily ever after.
|
| Oroch 823th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(1):Pielle the Tailor" , posted Sun 19 Jun 07:59
quote:
Warning: Lengthy Minstrel Song/Fairytale post
OK, I'll answer my own question. Too much pretentious text. Still, I think once you get to the review, it's valuable, especially to people who have been corrupted by Iggy's biased views on Minstrel Song. Tim's review captures what most people will experience when they play Minstrel Song. Some of the things he complained about, wetr off, but many of his points really made me laugh, because I had gone through the same thing. He got a few things totally wrong, though, which is odd, considering that he said he played the game so much.
But that also tells you something about the game. Some of the systems are so afflicted that you can't even figure them out unless you have a guide. They may work and Iggy may say that having them be totally backwards is a good thing, but I think that's stretching the truth. Minstrel Song works and it's a good game, but you have to like suffering and confusion at least a little bit. I want to say "Don't play the game without a guide", but then you don't get the whole painful experience. But if you DO play without a guide, then you don't get to appreciate a lot of the game. I think Iggy has the right idea by waiting for the Ultimania before playing any more. For someone else, I think not playing at all is the right idea.
But I realize that there are people who kowtow to Iggy and moreso, there are people who want to be "the chosen". When someone like Iggy (or me) makes Minstrel Song out to be something that only special people can enjoy, naturally, everyone wants to be special. I think if someone taunted me with a game I wasn't supposed to like, I would try and like it just to prove that I can. That's human nature. Let me illustrate this with a fairytale.
Pielle The Tailor
Once upon a time, there was a magical city in a magical land that was neighter clean nor dirty. The sky was neither bright nor dull and it smelled neither fragrant nor putrid. In this land there were things of beauty and things of corruption. There was creeping homosexuality at every corner and madness in the air. It was exactly as the inhabitants would want it.
In this city, there was a famous tailor named Pielle, who made the most magical and fashionable clothes in the land. The inhabitants of the great city admired Pielle's impeccable taste and his fashions were visible everywhere the eye could see.
One fateful day, when Pielle was especially drunk and crazy, he made a most fabulous fashionable creation. This creation combined so many different colors and materials that one simply did not know where to look when they gazed upon it. It was a work of genius and a work of insanity.
Pielle climbed to the highest tower and called out to the city, spreading his passion for his new article of clothing. Soon, eveyone in the city was wearing his monsterous new fashion.
"I love how it chafes me!" one woman exclaimed.
"I love how I can't find matching shoes!" another man, who had scoured the city for shoes and not slept in days, cried.
"I love how it makes me too cold AND too hot at the same time!" said a boy who was both sweating and bleeding from wearing the clothes.
"I like it too. But I don't know why." said a girl, who, like Pielle, was crazy enough to like the fashion, but not drunk enough to know why.
Plagued by Pielle's ill-fitting (but fabulous!) clothing, the people of the city became weak and tired. Many of them died and those who lived, lived poorly. Suddenly, taking advantage of their weakness, alien invaders came to conquer the land. Pielle was too busy masturbating to do anything about it, and he was just a tailor anyway. Some crazy guy called on Ultraman to save the day, and it actually worked. When the aliens were all dead, then everyone went to a Twisted Sister concert. Afterwards, Koizumi was re-elected and everyone lived happily ever after.
what a crappy story, i like iggy's better
|
| Iggy 6767th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):Pielle the Tailor" , posted Sun 19 Jun 17:58
The Pielle the tailor was great, and I'm too tired (and a little ill) to write the story of Jonathan the construction worker.
But
quote:
corrupted by Iggy's biased views
This is a question I asked myself as well.
Does liking the game makes my view biased ? Should I be allowed to talk about it only if I didn't liked it ?
And I don't think I corrupted anybody. While Tim did, I never lied about the game, and I kept saying "don't play the game if you didn't like / never played RS and to a lesser extend U : Saga". I never said (seriously) It's the best game ever, I said "it's my favourite game ever".
I really don't think I was being dishonest or anything. I began my thread with a warning, and the rest was just masturbation if you want, but I never, ever said this game was for everyone. It's not a question of being special or not : I played Vagrant Story, I was bored but I saw the game was quite interesting, I tried to play a few more hours, then I saw "the game is not for me" and I stopped playing. Same with Saga Frontier 2.
If you have to feel "special" by playing a game, then... esssh.
Tim's reviews has two flaws : first, like all the reviews that bashed the game, he keeps saying the game should look like more DQ8, which is absolutely stupid.
Bastardize the game by making it look like 99% of the other RPG would just kill the game. Saga games are for people who don't like FF and DQ, if you like FF and DQ, of course you won't like Saga. It's as simple as that.
Then, I'd like to know why the view of someone who likes FF and DQ, and hates Saga, is less biaised than mine ?
The second flaw, even though I'm not sure if it's a flaw or not at this point, are the lies. For example, Tim says the game never warns you or anything, and you can end up playing 10 hours, be caught in a dungeon, too weak, and unable to come back.
First, it's the exact same thing with absolutely all the other RPG : if you don't save for 10 hours and die, well, too bad. Then, this game warns you about it. The Giyugun is there for a purpose : the game is complicated, the game is difficult, and the Giyugun explains lots of vital stuff. Including "save everytime you cant, you don't want to be caught in a dungeon with not enough LP to come back".
If the game fucking tells you something, but you don't read it, how the hell can it be not biased to complain about how the game doesn't warns you ?
The same for all the systems. I know most games offer a tutorial when it is not necessary, but this game is different. Even if you know U : Saga and RS1 by heart, you NEED to read everything the Giyûgun tells you. If you don't, serves you well, IT'S WHAT THEY'RE HERE FOR. I disagree with the fact you can't figure them out without a guide. The guide will be here for the precise formula, but it's quite easy to grab the general idea by the time of your second save. IF YOU READ. And take the time to try different, things, that's why Quick Save is for. They tell you to do so in the tutorial !
As for the part about how RS1 copied FF4, RS2 FF5 and RS3 FF6, I think anyone with two functionning eyes will be able to see it by himself (and no word about how the second part of FF6 is directly taken from RS1, of course).
Another thing is the interview of april where Kawazu supposedly says he never made a good game ever, or something. I read this thing at the time, and I don't remind anything close to it.
The thing is, Kawazu often says he's not satisfied with his games, and that's what pushes him forward. Am I the only one to see a nuance here ? What kind of pretentious bastard can think "ah, it means he thinks his game sucks ! everything I do is perfect and satisfies me perfectly !"
Another thing : Albert and Sif in the snow dungeon. He says he fought the boss, then got killed, and he had to start again from the very first town.
First, the boss here DOESN'T kill you. If you die, your hero wakes up, says "I'm too weak, I have to come back later" and you are free to come back to town.
Then, if he indeed was killed by a non-boss monster (even though the monsters in Valhalland are a bit weaker then your actual level) why does he complain about having to come back to the first town ? He didn't saved in Gato, is it the game's fault if he didn't saved ? Is there any game who saves everytime when you forget to do it ?
You don't have to like suffering and confusion to like the game, you have to like difficult, complicated games. You have to hate easy games that let you win no matter what you do.
I'm just waiting for the Ultimania because I played nearly 200 hours of it in one month, and I don't want to spoil the fun, so I'm forbiding me to play it to enjoy it even more when I'll start a new save with Barbara. The Ultimania is just a symbolic date. It won't change the way I play, it will just allow me to play 5% more effectively. And I will have maps better drawn than my own ones.
Also, I had a very bad night and I have a toothache. This explains that.
ねんがんの ネ申ゲーをてにいれたぞ！
|
| Pollyanna 1191th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(2):Pielle the Tailor" , posted Sun 19 Jun 20:16
This is all to Iggy...I'm not going to bother quoting because you said so much.
Maybe I was harsh to say that you're "biased", simply because anyone with an opinion is. I just like picking on you. What I mean, is that for the average player, even the avid RPG fan, your opinion may not apply, because it is that of a SaGa fanatic. The fact that you only find merit in every aspect of Minstrel Song (excluding the camera, which is impossible to like) makes your opinion seem less valid to the average player. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, but that doesn't mean that people won't get the wrong idea. Pielle just made the clothes. He didn't make anyone wear them.
I consider Minstrel Song a game that succeeds, in many ways, despite itself. I think it's a game that provides an interesting, rewarding experience, but in a way that is littered with obstacles.
This might not be the best example, but it's very late, so it's the best I have. It's like...well, I like Silent Hill 2 a lot (and I think it works, despite itself), but if someone said the gameplay was great, I would say they were too biased. To me, some of the problems so many people have with SaGa games (and Minstrel Song) simply cannot be ignored in unbiased analysis.
But anyway, that's not the point, really, because you didn't write an official document or magazine article or anything like that. You just told people how YOU felt about the game, or rather, you just posted how you felt and people happened to read it. So I can't blame you for bias, and I can't blame you if you corrupted someone, but both points still stand.
As for Tim's review, it's not less biased (I think it's much MORE biased), it's just more "relevant". I feel that how he feels about Minstrel Song is how other people are likely to feel about it for similar reasons. He brings up points, accurate or not, that other people will bring up (rightfully or not). He mentions a lot of pitfalls that players are probably going to get stuck up on. It's difficult to get a sense of how many problems the game CAN give you from your descriptions.
I stand in the middle, because from my experience with the game, I had less trouble than Tim, but more than you. I don't mean trouble on bosses, I mean trouble finding what to do/getting around/etc. From reading the article, it sounds like Tim did his fair share of stupid shit, and if he doesn't like the game because it lets him be an idiot, then it's not the game's fault. For me, though, I couldn't manage the game without using a Japanese guide and I assumed, since the guide had so many "maybes" and "ifs" in it that to really understand and enjoy the game as it is, you'd need an official guide. However, I may have been speaking without understanding the truth of the situation, because I skimmed over the tutorials and my Japanese is never reliable enough to rule it out as a reason why my opinion may be invalid. That's the funny thing about my Japanese. It -might- not have been good enough for the game, but it was good enough to use Japanese game guides.
I didn't have problems with saving or getting stuck places that I didn't want to be. I had problems finding what to do, and getting around. I could find quests easy enough, but once I got on them, I would spend a ridiculous amount of time in towns geting from point A to point B. God, I wish the characters would walk faster. Then, the worst part was when I would find a quest to get really involved in, find that it took me through a lengthy maze, get into way too many random encounters (which wouldn't matter in other RPGs, but is often to your disadvantage in Minstrel Son), then finish the quest, only to find that the "phase" had changed and all my other quests had become invalid. Now I'm back in the world with no idea what to do.
With a guide, I could construct a game plan to make sure that I didn't do anything irreversible. Sure, EVERYTHING is reversible in a way, since you can always load your game, but after spending hours in a dungeon, then finding AFTERWARDS that it probably wasn't my best choice doesn't exactly make me want to load my pre-dungeon game, especially if I got a lot of good techniques in the process.
I don't think I'm someone who likes shallow and easy games. I liked the customization in MS and I loved LOVED LOVED the battle system. The boss battles were some of the most amazing I've ever had in a game, it's just the process of getting to them was sometimes not worth the effort. If I didn't enjoy being lost and confused at least a little bit, I couldn't have gotten what I did out of the game.
On another note, are you going to get the soundtrack, or have you played the game enough to hear it enough? I'm absolutely rabid about the..erm...it's the battle theme that plays when you fight Tiny Feather (the one with the dramatic horns and awesome bass) and I think it's the great beast battle theme. Anyway, I love that and Cheryl's battle theme. Hmm...how do you spell her name? I just assumed it was Cheryl, since that's a normal name.
|
| Iggy 6768th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Pielle the Tailor" , posted Sun 19 Jun 22:09
Tim is right, because he says "don't buy this game". And that's exactly what I'm saying, "don't buy this game", except there is an "if" after my "don't". I know and I said the majority of people won't like this game, on my blog.
The fact Tim says so in a review, with errors, without trying to explain why so many people love this game (I'm not the only one to say what I say, and it's plain dishonnest to say that all the japanese players who bought it "reminded the name of the series for the wrong reason"). The players didn't sold the game the day they bought it like other games like XenoSaga 2, Gensui 4 or Silent Hill 4. Many, many people liked the game, I'm not alone like I was with U : Saga.
quote:
I'm absolutely rabid about the..erm...it's the battle theme that plays when you fight Tiny Feather (the one with the dramatic horns and awesome bass) and I think it's the great beast battle theme. Anyway, I love that and Cheryl's battle theme. Hmm...how do you spell her name? I just assumed it was Cheryl, since that's a normal name.
I don't know... The names are written in the ending, but I don't know them all. Cheryl, then ? Cheryl it will be. I don't remember how you write Neithalt either.
There are 12 fighting tunes in the game : the zako theme (戦いの序曲), the fabulous Minion theme (熱情の律動), the pirate fight theme (俺たちゃ海賊), the boss theme (Jewel Beast, Tuman, etc : Chaos Labyrinth), the 4tennô and possessed 4tennô (神々への挑戦), the chûboss theme (A Piece of Courage), the Destiny Stone guardian (邪聖の旋律), second boss theme (Ifrit, Sould Drain, Hawk and Grey boss : Believing My Justice), Sherah's theme (呼び覚まされた記憶), Death's theme (死への招待状), Saruin's theme (復活の舞台へ) and Saruin's second theme (決戦！サルーイン)
I don't like the 4tennô theme that much, something with the orchestration. Sherah's and the Minion's theme are fabulous. You've already fought Sherah ?
ねんがんの ネ申ゲーをてにいれたぞ！
|
| Pollyanna 1193th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(4):Pielle the Tailor" , posted Mon 20 Jun 06:35
quote:
The players didn't sold the game the day they bought it like other games like XenoSaga 2, Gensui 4 or Silent Hill 4. Many, many people liked the game, I'm not alone like I was with U : Saga.
Sherah's and the Minion's theme are fabulous. You've already fought Sherah ?
No, I've just heard the song. I played Minstrel Song a lot, but a lot of that was restarting and trying out different quests/seeing the world. I'd stil like to finish it, though my work schedule isn't allowing it.
Anyway, by all rights, the guy's name should be written "Neidhardt", though the Japanese page says it without the "d"..."Neidhart". Close enough. Cheryl...I dunno. I thought that was the way you wrote "Cheryl" in Japanese, but it's quite possible that it's something different entirely.
As for the game's popularity in Japan, if it was total crap, then people wouldn't KEEP buying it. I was shocked and apalled when the game sold nearly as much as Hanjuku Hero 4 when it came out. Minstrel Song had been out for a long time beforehand, so I thought it had its' good run of sales. I'm glad the game did well, but I hate to see such dismal sales for Hanjuku Hero. I need to play that some more and write a review on it to spread the word or something.
Ah, also...I can't say for sure unless I play the game in English (I mean, Minstrel Song) and understand every word, but for me, I was still a litle confused without a guide. Or rather, it would be much more convenient and enjoyable with one. It's really all about the boss battles for me.
Hmmm...speaking of boss battles, I wonder if the Avatar Tuner 2 soundtrack is out yet. The battle theme is one of the best I've ever heard and the same goes for the last boss theme. It's tear-jerking super dramatic electric guitar.
|
| Spoon 1103th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(3):Pielle the Tailor" , posted Mon 20 Jun 10:02
Here's the thing... if you intentionally do things that are stupid in MS, can you extricate yourself from the pit you've dug by being clever? Or are there "points of no return"... I heard that in Valkyrie Profile you could fast forward to the final day doing nothing in between if you wanted to, and that would place you in an impossible situation. Things like that.
It's like how some games offer "freedom", but varying levels of "consequences". In the GTA games you have freedom to explore in a variety of ways (probably the main freedom in the game) and cause riots and inflict minor and limited property damage, but the consequences of screwing up are little more than respawning at the hospital/hideout. In Fallout you could kill anybody you wanted, but if you kill a child then you will be branded a "Child Killer", and everybody in every town will attack you on sight without exception for the rest of the game.
It's like people and programming. Most people will find it an awful, terrible, experience. They will ask how anybody, ANYBODY, could possibly like it. They will fail at it, because you are given the freedom to fail in ways that haven't even been invented yet. Even more damning is the compiler that says, "FAILED, ABORTING", just to give you that extra bit of negative reinforcement. But if you suffer past the endless slings and arrows, you will know that you have the freedom to create anything you want. Some people will not like this game. It doesn't even come with a soundtrack. But that is perfectly normal.
|
| Iggy 6771th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Pielle the Tailor" , posted Mon 20 Jun 15:55
quote:
Here's the thing... if you intentionally do things that are stupid in MS, can you extricate yourself from the pit you've dug by being clever?
I guess so... If you take only crap characters with no name and 3 LP, don't teach healing magic to anyone, and waste all your jewels to have all sorts of different skills level one instead of a few ones level 4, then you're screwed. But you really have to force yourself.
On the other hand, Saruin is so easy if he has no destiny stone that it may be possible to beat him with a normal team with around 400 HP and everyone with a few good spells... I don't know. On the other hand, beating him this way would require a lot of skill from the player, skills he wouldn't have learned since he wouldn't have played the game normally.
quote:
I heard that in Valkyrie Profile you could fast forward to the final day doing nothing in between if you wanted to, and that would place you in an impossible situation.
I think Freia comes inbetween and kills you if you try to do so. But yeah, it would be really stupid to do so.
ねんがんの ネ申ゲーをてにいれたぞ！
|
| HAYATO 433th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(6):Basque indeed !" , posted Fri 24 Jun 06:36
quote:
Basque people sexy? Why? I mean, sexy people and ugly people are everywhere.
Of course, but Basque people are hairy, with penetrating eyes, and, most important, they smell of delicious smoked ham.
Ikari is hairier than me, but only from neck down...  And you are also right in the eyes issue: everytime I talk to Ikari I sense in his eyes this unrestrainable passion he feels for me, and a chilling shudder runs down my spine... 
In addition, he also smells funny, so I bet he's the true paradigm of a Basque!! 
Unfortunately for you, there have been a lot of crossbreeding in this geographical zone in the last years, so the usual Basque physical paradigm may not be applicable in the near future...
|
|
|
The forums are gone, so I have to find any possible way to get stuff to read during my 
Best site EVER:
s'il vous plait.
