"No blood, no guts, no gore" = No fun? - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums


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Makondo99
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""No blood, no guts, no gore" = No fun?" , posted Wed 25 May 22:29post reply

BBC article on Christian games:



A demo can be found here:


Discuss!






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Ishmael
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"Re(1):" , posted Wed 25 May 23:45post reply

The replies to that article already hit the main complaints about the line of thinking that produced those games; not only are there plenty of non-violent games out there but taking a popular game and re-jiggering it so it conforms with your theological world view is lazy, has been done before, and wasn't any good back then either. If the game producers made a good original game that incorporated their beliefs it could be really cool but as it is this is just silly.





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"Re(2):" , posted Thu 26 May 00:23post reply

Hahahah ! I played it for a while actually. It was kind of fun.

I loved how when you 'shoot' the Roman Guards with your beam sword thingie they get down on their knees in front of you and are converted. There's a little "hallelujah" in the background too. It's priceless.

It's also funny that you're shooting stuff, and then picking up scrolls with bible verses written on them for health. I'm done shooting a whole bunch of people, and then I pick up a scroll that talks about advocating peace for all mankind. I love it.

This will convert people, I KNOW it. I'm a believer!





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Joe Randel
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"Re(3):" , posted Thu 26 May 01:11post reply

Convert the heathens!!!






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crazymike
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"Re(4):" , posted Thu 26 May 04:54post reply

Love the description

"Your mentor and brethren have been captured by the demon possessed Roman soldiers"

Or maybe they are just secular Romans interested in orgies, pillaging, and accumulating wealth, not worshipping Satan.





HAYATO
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"Re(5):" , posted Thu 26 May 06:37post reply

Are american christians so naive they really think this poor excuse of a game is going to do any good? Do they seriously think they can spread their religion with such "repent for your sins, you roman zombie, alleluyah" propaganda?

As a christian myself, I feel ashamed of this childish, extremist and misguided interpretation of what Christianism should contribute to the gaming world. But, alleluyahs aside, the game seems fun...





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"DOOM spelled backwards is SATAN" , posted Thu 26 May 09:21post reply

I've always thought it was hilarious when a Christian group or two pops up and complains about DOOM being Satanic... when you spend the entire game shooting demons' heads off. And in the old games, hunt down the Devil himself and shoot rockets into his brain. Since when is killing demons endorsing Satanism? Whine about the violent content, fine. But don't act like it's endorsing Satanism and edit out all the pentagrams in the game (I remember an old WAD that did that to DOOM back in the day... the writer of the WAD was saying how offensive the pentagrams were to Christian players or something).





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"Re(1):DOOM spelled backwards is SATAN" , posted Thu 26 May 10:45post reply

I'm still waiting for a Cave shmup starring Jesus against a demon army.





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"Jesus Saves When He Shops At Wal-Mart" , posted Thu 26 May 11:24post reply

[preface: Okay, I know not all Christians are fundy out-of-their-mind bible thumpers out to destroy anything secular and turn the US into a Christian theocracry... but those are the ones I'm gonna be refering to when I rant, so if you're one of the average non-extremist please not I'm not attacking you. Although I don't believe in your God, I respect your right to believe in him and it's only those who force their belifes onto the US or the world as a whole I dislike]

So why do we need Christian FPS? Ignoring the fact there are literally thousands of Family Friendly non-violent inoffensive games why would they want to have games in a genre DRVIEN by violence?

Even in the one they're showing, you're still "shooting" enemies... maybe there's no blood or gore, but the point remains you're firing a weapon at another living being in anger. Is blowing up a demon any worse then converting a roman if they're both done by pointing a loaded gun in their face?

Why not making something fun in a genre that leads itself to less violent game play? A Platformers seem like they'd work pretty well, there's nothing overtly "Satanic" or violent about Super Mario Brothers is there? Platformers don't NEED to have any conflict as long as there's a clear goal. "Abe's Oddysee" is a perfect example, the traps are violent but Abe himself has no attacking ablities, why not instead of stealing Doom's concept steal that? Have Moses try and save the jews from the Egyptians, replace the deadly traps with none lethal ones like cages falling down or being tied up and the tribal chant to poses enemies with praying to have God make them walk away.

The whole Christian sub-genre of anything seems stupid to me, especially since there are inoffensive versions of everything out there. What's the point of Christian Metal or Rock or First Person Shooters or whatever? How do the people who decide to make these things even know they like said genre if they're so devote they really shouldn't deal with something "Satanic" anyway?






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"Jesus Saves When He Shops At Target" , posted Thu 26 May 12:03post reply

Give me a moment to make an intelligent response...





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"Re(1):Jesus Saves When He Shops At Target" , posted Thu 26 May 16:09post reply

"But as the games got nastier, I was getting pretty conflicted about coming home from church and playing things like Doom and Quake.

"I began to look for something else, but there was a gaping hole in the market."


Yeah, once you look past all the puzzle games, sports games, racing sims, card games, kids games, Nintendo games, extremely popular collecting games like Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh, and surprisingly popular niche titles like Harvest Moon, Ico, Dance Dance Revolution, and Katamari Damacy, there's really just an enormous gaping hole just waiting to be filled by neutered Doom rip-offs with low production values. You certainly couldn't restrict yourself to playing non-violent games and still have a shiny, unfinished new game in your PS2 all year long.

I hope that Alex Navarro's coworkers at GameSpot smacked him upside the head for giving the media exactly the sort of dumbass answer they wanted out of him. There are prepubescent posters at Slashdot Games who could've given them a more insightful response.





Ktallguy
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"Re(2):Jesus Saves When He Shops At Target" , posted Thu 26 May 16:14post reply

quote:

I hope that Alex Navarro's coworkers at GameSpot smacked him upside the head for giving the media exactly the sort of dumbass answer they wanted out of him. There are prepubescent posters at Slashdot Games who could've given them a more insightful response.



I know what you mean, but you have to consider the possibility that he said all that, but they neutered his quote and grabbed the part they wanted instead.

quote:
"As believers in Christ, we pray that God will be glorified through our work and that each of us draw nearer to him as we develop and grow as a business," the company says.

"We also pray for God's unyielding protection for our company, as well as others who are involved in his perfect plan for the world."


I love this perfect plan for the world stuff... it starts making contemporary christianity resemble a cult more and more...





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HAYATO
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"Re(1):Jesus Saves When He Shops At Wal-Mart" , posted Thu 26 May 16:44post reply

quote:
Even in the one they're showing, you're still "shooting" enemies... maybe there's no blood or gore, but the point remains you're firing a weapon at another living being in anger. Is blowing up a demon any worse then converting a roman if they're both done by pointing a loaded gun in their face?


I couldn't agree more...gore/ blood is just a natural consecuence of some actions we can see in FPSs, and albeit exaggerated, it's mostly added just to make the game a bit more realistic (when I accidentally make myself a cut, I bleed, so if I'm going to stuck a chainsaw in an ugly demon's head, I expect from it to do the same).

If you don't like the gore concept and you want your christian game to be taken seriously, don't you also need to remove the gore factor, but also to reshape the concepts of the original game which leaded you to include it. I think this isn't so difficult....what about replacing the golden sword by a glowing hand and the devilish roman zombies by lepers? It's miracle time!!!You could wipe out any kind of violence in the game like this, and it could still be fun...well, sort of.


quote:
Why not making something fun in a genre that leads itself to less violent game play? A Platformers seem like they'd work pretty well, there's nothing overtly "Satanic" or violent about Super Mario Brothers is there? Platformers don't NEED to have any conflict as long as there's a clear goal. "Abe's Oddysee" is a perfect example, the traps are violent but Abe himself has no attacking ablities, why not instead of stealing Doom's concept steal that? Have Moses try and save the jews from the Egyptians, replace the deadly traps with none lethal ones like cages falling down or being tied up and the tribal chant to poses enemies with praying to have God make them walk away.


Yeah, they could aim their efforts to so many more productive genres...take for example racing : imagine "Golgota Turismo", a racing game where you control your favourite crucified and you must try to get him to the top of the mountain/ scaffold before the other convicted.

Or why not making advantage of The Sims fever with The SimMessiahs? Interacting with people in ancient Israel could be an interesting proposal for a mod...WTF, they could even ask Bill Gates to let them make an "Age of Miracles", about Moses' exodus and the legendary battles jews held against aegyptians, persians and so on...


quote:
The whole Christian sub-genre of anything seems stupid to me, especially since there are inoffensive versions of everything out there. What's the point of Christian Metal or Rock or First Person Shooters or whatever? How do the people who decide to make these things even know they like said genre if they're so devote they really shouldn't deal with something "Satanic" anyway?




The reason is his sole will to justify their extremism by pointing out every kind of entertainment they see as a threat for their beliefs. Then they just attempt to make an appealing, alternate offering based on a botched, already seen concept in order to spread their vision of life and religion. Of course, those offerings don't sell too much, being the potential customers such a little sector out of the whole market. So I think we could speak of "Christian endogamy". Even fanatics have the right of making for a living, haven't they?





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"Re(2):Jesus Saves When He Shops At Target" , posted Thu 26 May 16:59post reply

quote:
Yeah, once you look past all the puzzle games, sports games, racing sims, card games, kids games, Nintendo games, extremely popular collecting games like Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh, and surprisingly popular niche titles like Harvest Moon, Ico, Dance Dance Revolution, and Katamari Damacy
Problem with crazy religious nuts is that they can be offended by pretty much everything, especially if they are american.
Pokemon : monsters that don't exist in the real world become your friends. But they are monsters, creations of Satan to pervert the holy creation of God. And look at the satanist symbols on that pokemon whose name I forgot! As for Yugi˘, it teaches you to become a summoner of evil. Witches !
Ico, the hero has horns = he's a demon, easy.
Katamari : the king of Cosmos ! what a pagan imagery ! burn it !
DDR : There are demon characters, japanese songs you don't understand but that may or may not be coded satanist lyrics, and barely closed whores who teach our daughter to go to rave parties, and we all know what happens there : satanist cults, of course.
Nintendo games, violence everywhere, with the stopmping and the stealing of turtle shells.
Harvest Moon... The wedding is a pagan ritual with a feather, surely stolen on an angel by some of those satanist deities of the forest you encounter in the game AND WHO HELP YOU.

And so on.





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"Re(3):Jesus Saves When He Shops At Target" , posted Thu 26 May 17:31post reply

I expect this to be just as huge a blockbuster as Super Noah's Ark 3D.





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"Re(4):Jesus Saves When He Shops At Target" , posted Fri 27 May 00:57post reply

quote:
I expect this to be just as huge a blockbuster as Super Noah's Ark 3D.


Heheh, now that I would play...there's plenty of mayhem in the Old Testament to make good Christian RPG's that appeal to non-Christian gamers, and if only I could figure out how many HP Moses had.





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ZamIAm
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"Re(5):Jesus Saves When He Shops At Target" , posted Mon 30 May 12:03post reply

Well, actually everyone has beaten me to all the intelligent responses.





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"Pointless" , posted Mon 30 May 14:47:post reply

What is there to discuss about this article really? Other than trying to make somewhat witty comments about flawed videogame concepts? There are certainly ways to make good Christian games. But the ones mentioned in this article suck. Also there could be such things as Bibilically correct FPS games when you consider the number of soldiers who fought in World Wars etc. who were Christians. Bible doesn't say "you shall not kill"- it says "you shall not murder." (two different things) So the issue is not the existence of violence but the glorification of it. And telling Christian people to only play racing/puzzle/dancing/platform doesn't make any sense either. Since many of cafe gamers would hate that kind of a restriction. I know I would. But the challenge involved in creating a really good Christian videogame...I'd be surprised if somebody was successful.





[this message was edited by Phoenix on Mon 30 May 14:59]

DarkZero
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"Re(1):Pointless" , posted Tue 31 May 13:28post reply

quote:
And telling Christian people to only play racing/puzzle/dancing/platform doesn't make any sense either. Since many of cafe gamers would hate that kind of a restriction. I know I would.


I don't think anyone's arguing that Christians should be restricted to non-violent games. We're just arguing against the ridiculous idea, which went totally unchallenged in the article, that the only non-violent video games on Earth right now have Jesus in them. There is no "gaping hole" in the market for non-violent games. Hell, there's not even a hole at all. It's already filled by tons of great games on every single console system and even more on the PC.

And honestly, I don't see these Christian games really taking off any more than I see educational games taking off, because that's essentially what they are. These idiots don't realize that a Christian game doesn't have to be soaked in Christian values, it just has to refrain from violating them. These people have no sense of subtlety because they are openly out of touch with the world around them.





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"Re(1):Pointless" , posted Tue 31 May 15:12post reply

quote:
What is there to discuss about this article really? Other than trying to make somewhat witty comments about flawed videogame concepts?


What is there to ANY topic but that really?

quote:
There are certainly ways to make good Christian games. But the ones mentioned in this article suck.

Which is what's fun to point out... From Bible Adventure to Super Noah's Ark 3D there has been NO good Bible games.

Mostly because they're all "WOW! (popular game) sure is hot... but what if it had JESUS in it!!" or even worse they're the crazies who think "OH SAVE US JESUS! THE HETHENS ARE PLAYING COMPUTER GAMES! I MUST FIND A WAY FOR YOU TO SAVE THEM!!!" and then think people are stupid enough to play a crappy FPS.

quote:
Bible doesn't say "you shall not kill"- it says "you shall not murder." (two different things) So the issue is not the existence of violence but the glorification of it.


Actually it does say "Kill" or at least has been translated as such... now of course it MEANS "thou shall not murder" since even the Bible allows for Wars, killing for protection, and certain animals for food/sacrifice... of course if you take things literally it says "kill" and killing is killing, but yeah...

quote:
Also there could be such things as Bibilically correct FPS games when you consider the number of soldiers who fought in World Wars etc. who were Christians.


and IS totally possible to make bible friendly FPS, but the World Wars might be a bad example, since their were Christians on both sides. Here's my idea:

"You are Father John 'Johnny' Christian, the preacher and fiddle enthusist of Pleasentburg a small farming town in Georgia, and the Devil has just come down! The children of your flock have been taken over by Lucifer's vices and now armed with a holy water filled squirt gun, small crosses (for throwing), a large cruxific (to use as a sword), a set of rosery beads (to use as brace knuckles), and the bible itself (reading from it delivers a powerful blow to any demon in your path), all of which you can upgrade by fighting holy artifacts and pieces of the Saints!! Your mission is to fight horrids of Satan's minions (all themed on various tools Lucifier uses to seduce the innocent: Rock and Roll, Rap, Violent Games, Premarital Sex, PG-13 movies, Swearing, and of course Evolution) and save the children's souls, then to journey into Hell itself (one devoid of any offensive icons of course) and battle the Devil himself to drive him out of your town for good, IN A NO HOLDS BARRED FIDDLIN' CONTEST!!! a task most mortal men would run from but you're a man of the clothe!"

See no murder, it's a lot more exciting to 'kill' demons then convert Romans, it's got that whole "Hell House" feel to it so you learn Christian Values... and it's a Charlie Daniel's Band Reference!

quote:
And telling Christian people to only play racing/puzzle/dancing/platform doesn't make any sense either. Since many of cafe gamers would hate that kind of a restriction. I know I would.


When I was younger I didn't like Violent games SO I DIDN'T PLAY THEM... I eventually changed my mind but if you don't like something.

Or maybe pick a game that doesn't directly offend you... okay so Doom has devils in it, cool you don't like devils in your games AT ALL, why not Metroid Prime? why not Oddworld Stranger*?! why not Halo even (assumes there's no Satanic images in Halo, I never played that much of it or part 2)?!?!

*actually now that think about it, Oddworld Stranger is a FPS that is rather unviolent... it's possible to defeat all enemies, even the bosses without killing them (and even if you do kill them there's no gore)... and it's really fun. Maybe Stranger isn't reading the bible as he bounty hunts, but he's not promoting the devil or killing.






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ZamIAm
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"Re(2):Pointless" , posted Wed 1 Jun 11:55post reply

quote:
"You are Father John 'Johnny' Christian, the preacher and fiddle enthusist of Pleasentburg a small farming town in Georgia, and the Devil has just come down! The children of your flock have been taken over by Lucifer's vices and now armed with a holy water filled squirt gun, small crosses (for throwing), a large cruxific (to use as a sword), a set of rosery beads (to use as brace knuckles), and the bible itself (reading from it delivers a powerful blow to any demon in your path), all of which you can upgrade by fighting holy artifacts and pieces of the Saints!! Your mission is to fight horrids of Satan's minions (all themed on various tools Lucifier uses to seduce the innocent: Rock and Roll, Rap, Violent Games, Premarital Sex, PG-13 movies, Swearing, and of course Evolution) and save the children's souls, then to journey into Hell itself (one devoid of any offensive icons of course) and battle the Devil himself to drive him out of your town for good, IN A NO HOLDS BARRED FIDDLIN' CONTEST!!! a task most mortal men would run from but you're a man of the clothe!"



I'd almost find that offensive if I didn't find that so funny in its corniness. Luckily, some of the previous comments have sparked some imagination on my part.





They're outsourcing Elmo and putting Cookie Monster on a diet...WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO?!?

Maou
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"Re(3):Pointless" , posted Wed 1 Jun 12:13:post reply

Lots of good humor is like that, I think! Besides, these are plans I've already heard people say seriously in real life, yikes.



edit: "The devil said to Johnny/You play pretty good old son but give the devil his due/I'll bet a fiddle of gold/against your soul/'cause I think I'm better than you."





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

[this message was edited by Maou on Wed 1 Jun 12:16]