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DarkZero
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"Revenge of the Sith" , posted Thu 19 May 16:45post reply

Every summer we seem to have a lot of off-topic posts about the big nerd movies that are coming out. I figured that for once, I'd start the thread for one of them.

I just got back from a midnight showing of Revenge of the Sith and it was pretty much perfect. It lags for about fifteen or twenty minutes somewhere in there, just like Attack of the Clones did, but after that little lull it really takes off and just keeps getting wilder and wilder until the finish. I loved it.

I'll put this in spoiler space, but I do have one note for the people that loved the Clone Wars animated series as much as I did. It may be worth reading since it's not so much a spoiler as it is a warning:


Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Clone Wars Grievous >>>>>>>> RotS Grievous

It's like the guys behind the Clone Wars cartoon looked at the script, saw a useless, uninteresting character in the film named "General Grievous", and found ten times the potential that Lucas ever found in him. The only thing I can imagine is that certain characters that get tons of screen time in Clone Wars but very little in RotS, like Grievous and the Clone Troopers, were intended to be ignored in the movies and fleshed out only in the animated series, comic books, video games, and other assorted stories.


End of Spoiler



And now, for those who have actually watched the film, a spoiler question:


Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
What's the deal with Qui-Gonn and the Sith? Count Dooku says something about Qui-Gonn having a relation to the Dark Side in Attack of the Clones. Then, in Revenge of the Sith, Qui-Gonn is the only one who knows the immortality techniques of Darth Plagus, a nearly all-powerful Sith Lord who was killed by his apprentice. Do any of the Star Wars fans here know of a side story that explains why he would know this?

Oh, and another Clone Wars thing: Grievous suffering from Mace Windu's attack in Clone Wars was a great touch. I kind of like the fact that they never explained that to the audience members who hadn't seen Clone Wars.


End of Spoiler



DISCUSS!






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NARUTO
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"Re(1):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Thu 19 May 17:36post reply

So If I understand you...



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
...Grievous didn't move 10 % of his ass, like he did in clone wars? Damn I was expectim him to play with Jedi like ragdolls again...

End of Spoiler



Will see the movie anyway...






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DarkZero
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"Re(2):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Thu 19 May 19:32post reply

quote:
So If I understand you...



General Grievous spoilers follow (nothing TOO big if you've seen Clone Wars, but it still spoils a bit):


Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Grievous speaks in a Russian accent, limps around with his dirty cloak open (he never takes the "seven foot tall White Tower of Doom" pose from the end of the first season), never grabs a lightsaber with his feet, never does a backflip, and never shows any affection for Count Dooku, even though the second season portayed him not only as Dooku's apprentice, but also as a kind of pet.

By comparison, he's actually portrayed as kind of an idiot. During his first fight, he says something in that heavy, Oh-boy-I-loves-the-vodka Russian accent to the effect of, "I have studied and learned your Jedi arts." Apparently the depth of his knowledge of the Jedi arts stops at "grab four lightsabers and spin them all like neon weedwhackers", because that's all he really does. He's not a martial artist or a swordsman at all, really.

Then again, as I mentioned in the second spoiler, Grievous spends all of his screen time suffering from the Force-inflicted heart attack Mace Windu gave him at the end of Clone Wars, so he's not exactly on top of his game. That still doesn't explain why he seems like a totally different character when he talks, though.


End of Spoiler







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"Re(3):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Thu 19 May 20:10post reply

Well it's sad but it doesn't ruin the movie I think. After all he's supposed to be a 2nd rank character.






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"Re(4):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Thu 19 May 21:23post reply

Okay I saw it last night, and all I have to say is....HOLY CRAP!!!

It's funny cuz I have to see it again today and sat with my bf.





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"Re(5):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Fri 20 May 02:11post reply

quote:
Okay I saw it last night, and all I have to say is....HOLY CRAP!!!

It's funny cuz I have to see it again today and sat with my bf.

I hope that's a positive "HOLY CRAP" if you're going to have to see the movie two more times in the next few days.





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"Re(6):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Fri 20 May 03:46post reply

Really, my only complaint was the Droid Army. It's round 3, can't they make better looking robots? Grevious was cool but them other soldier robots were not 'teh sexy.'

But outside of my minor complaint the Movie was PERFECT. 11 out of 10!





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"Re(7):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Fri 20 May 04:22post reply

I thought the movie was sad a very tragic love story. Of course you knew all these events would unfold and with out them obviously there would be no IV,V, and VI. Fans of only the vintage Star Wars often argue there is no attachment to the new characters. For parts 1 and 2 I could see that to an extent but in 3 I don't think that is the case at all. I will go see again I’m waiting for an IMAX viewing.





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"Re(8):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Fri 20 May 04:48post reply

Spoiler city... I hope you aren't reading too far. I don't know how to use the spoiler function.





I agree that General Grevious was portrayed in a much more imposing fashion in the animated Clone Wars. I was expecting him to be a total bad-ass in Ep. III, but he seemed much more comical and goofy. I was really disappointed with his character's role in the movie, but most people who have never seen the animated series won't ever find out about his role in slaughtering multiple Jedi in that one scene.

The end fight scene with Obi-Wan and Anakin was pretty good. I'm going to see it again tonight and have it set in a second time.





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"Re(1):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Fri 20 May 06:39post reply

A really wonnnnderful movie. Maybe nothing surprising, but really delicious, pure eye-candy.
quote:

And now, for those who have actually watched the film, a spoiler question:
-Da question goes here-
DISCUSS!


About your question:


Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
As I see it, altho' I don't remember anything about that stuff on Qui-Gonn in Ep2, Qui-Gonn doesn't know the Sith's immortality techniques, which consisted in avoiding death (ironically, the death of others, mainly. Which is funny, being him a Sith and thus being it a Dark Side power ^_^).
What Qui-Gonn masters is that stuff of keeping his own consciousness alive within the Force after having died, as later Yoda, ObiWan and Anakin do too. That is, the "phantoms" that appear in eps 5 & 6. As Obi says to Vader: "they've become more powerful than what you could ever imagine", or also, you might have heard "they became one with the Force". I think there was supposedly some scene with Qui-Gonn's ghost, but, (I'd say probably because of some trouble with Liam Neeson) that scene eventually didn't make it. Or whatever.

Again, as I see it, that's there to show that, ironically or rather, tragically for poor (powerful, good-willed but just plain Stupid) Anakin, the Light Side is the one that really ultimately allowed you to live to heal and stuff, not the Dark Side as Pal promised him.

And last but not least, (also, as I see it) from the looks on his face while he was telling it, I'd say that this "all-powerful Sith Lord's apprentice who killed his master" was none other than Palpatine himself. Don't you think?


End of Spoiler



Two more things:

1- Gotta love ObiWan fighting (Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon) Chinese style with his lightsaber against Grievous.

2- Am I the only one who saw a reference to good ol' George W Bush in that dialog:


Spoiler (Highlight to view) -

(Note: This is my English translation from the Spanish version, which I saw. Gotta watch OV someday)
Anakin: If you're not with me then you're my enemy!
ObiWan: Only a Sith would see things in such a extreme way!


End of Spoiler


Most certainly...





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"Re(2):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Fri 20 May 07:39post reply

I saw it, and frankly, I wasn't that impressed until the end, when Lucas made clearer ties between the prequel trilogy and the original trilogy. Other than that, I didn't find this movie to be much better than Ep. 2. Darker, yes of course. But not much better. Plus...



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Yoda and Obi-wan talked about Qui-Gon's post-death experience, but we never see Qui-Gon as a ghost! I was hoping to see him somewhere, even if it was at the end.

End of Spoiler







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"Re(3):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Fri 20 May 09:40post reply

Here's what I don't get with the Dark Jedi.

Why, when Dark Jedi like Palpatine are supposed to be so terribly clever, do they never go about learning obviously useful non-destruction oriented "Light side" powers?

It's not as though Light Jedi can't go around doing Dark things, like Luke giving an orc a good choking.





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"Re(4):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Fri 20 May 10:14post reply

I hate to piss all over the party, but it really didn't do too much for me. I may have set my standards ridiculously high, but... I dunno. The Ep. I and II scars still remain.

Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I do want to see it again before I commit myself to claiming to as mediocre.


The pacing really annoyed me. Each scene was so quick that I never got the chance to feel pulled in and part of what was going on. And then those cheesy, low class scene transitions are back again to whisk you away to another bit of action. [I DESPISE those swipes that are present... did the editor decide to use every possible built-in transition in whatever software they were using? It's not cool.]

But yea, the ending felt so rushed, and so quick... The whole thing, really, felt too quick. Every character's decision, every dramatic plot development seemed to happen with the snap of a finger.


But maybe I'm just being too asshole-ish.





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"Re(5):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Fri 20 May 11:00post reply

I'm not a Star Wars fan (I enjoy the Original Trilogy, but have never bought a Star Wars product, can't recite lines from the movies, and don't own any of them on DVD), so feel free to ignore me, fanboys.

I thought Episode 3 was an empty experience. While I loved Palpatine and his manipulations and sheer over-the-top scenery-chewing, I couldn't have cared less what happened to any of the other characters. The acting and dialogue are BAD (problem with all 3 prequel movies... Lucas simply can't write convincing, emotive dialogue) and the rest of the cast seemed totally uninterested (Samuel L. and Ewan McGregor).

I never saw the Clone Wars TV thing, so I have no way to judge otherwise, but Gen. Grievous was a waste of a character in the movie. He's a joke. A walking plot device with a cheap gimmick to sell toys.

Anyway... I liked all of the stuff that tied up the loose ends and connected the new trilogy with the old one, but still feel that this movie is no better than the other two prequel movies. They're boring, they're chockful of horrible dialogue and acting, and worst of all, they're unnecessary.





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DarkZero
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"Re(6):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Fri 20 May 13:24post reply

quote:
Why, when Dark Jedi like Palpatine are supposed to be so terribly clever, do they never go about learning obviously useful non-destruction oriented "Light side" powers?


Don't they, though? The only Light Side powers I remember from the movies or Knights of the Old Republic were the sort of "inward" powers, like physical toughness, acrobatics, coordination, etc. and the non-destructive telekinesis. Palpatine and Dooku seemed to know all of those, in addition to the "outward" powers like Force Lightning and Force Choke. The only Light Side power I know of that the Sith didn't have was the hidden one that was mentioned toward the end of the movie, but most Light Side Jedi didn't know it, either. (If you haven't seen the movie, that's not really a spoiler. It's not a majo plot point by any means.)

On an unrelated note:


Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
"As I see it, altho' I don't remember anything about that stuff on Qui-Gonn in Ep2, Qui-Gonn doesn't know the Sith's immortality techniques, which consisted in avoiding death (ironically, the death of others, mainly. Which is funny, being him a Sith and thus being it a Dark Side power ^_^)."

Hmmm... that makes sense. Thanks.


End of Spoiler







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"Store Wars" , posted Sat 21 May 00:23post reply

And now for something completely different:

Yet another parody of the ol' trilogy, but hella fun. And ecologist.





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"Re(1):Store Wars" , posted Sat 21 May 06:41post reply

At the end Anakin joins a circus, sending all the continuity experts into an uproar. That would be awesomely crappy





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"Grievous" , posted Sat 21 May 08:26post reply

Yes, his role was minimal but... so was Bobba Fett in Return of the Jedi, he's inept, stupid, and dies by accident... and still people think he's cool.





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"Re(1):Grievous" , posted Sat 21 May 10:11post reply

quote:
Yes, his role was minimal but... so was Bobba Fett in Return of the Jedi, he's inept, stupid, and dies by accident... and still people think he's cool.



Good point.


I've seen it a few hours ago, and frankly... I've loved it. The only complain I have is that the pace of the movie is a bit rushed at times, like the submission of Anakin to the Dark Side: Instead of making it more gradual, he goes from

Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
caring for Padme and the babie life to slaughtering young padawans within a few scenes. Being responsible of Windu's death is not enough trigger to such a brutal change.

End of Spoiler



Anyway, the Obi Wan vs Anakin fight is absolutely marvelous, both in the fighting and in the acting: I really felt bad when

Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Obi Wan tells Anakin: "You were like a brother to me". You can tell Obi Wan's suffering, yet he is determinated enough to fight and defeat him.

End of Spoiler







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"Re(2):Grievous" , posted Sat 21 May 14:20post reply

quote:
I've seen it a few hours ago, and frankly... I've loved it. The only complain I have is that the pace of the movie is a bit rushed at times, like the submission of Anakin to the Dark Side.
Co-sign. I didn't think it was handled well.


Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Anakin being more or less "OMG I'm so confused, I don't know what to think... why don't you tell me what to do, and I'll do anything you say"

I thought that was really weird and unconvincing.


End of Spoiler







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"Re(3):Grievous" , posted Sat 21 May 16:10post reply

The movie was ok, but the writting was so stilted. Lucus should have had someone else write it. I have nothing against Hayden, but he just can't carry the weight of the role. Some parts were just so cheesy like the Vader NOOOO, and the like a light switch dark side change.

The only one who was convincing despite the lines given was Obi. I think he carried the movie. At least for me. I would mind the adventures of Obi Wan and the search for immortality.





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"Re(4):Grievous" , posted Sat 21 May 16:37post reply

quote:
The only one who was convincing despite the lines given was Obi.
Well, Mcgregor is an actor.
Even in the rare movies where he doesn't show his butt.





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DarkZero
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"Re(4):Grievous" , posted Sat 21 May 17:55:post reply



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
"Anakin being more or less "OMG I'm so confused, I don't know what to think... why don't you tell me what to do, and I'll do anything you say"

I thought that was really weird and unconvincing."

Well, what other choice did he have, really? He was pretty much given a Faustian deal. Sell out to Palpatine, do whatever he wants, and hope that he decides to show Anakin the way to save Padme, or be a good boy, kill Palpatine, and watch her die senselessly. I didn't find it strange at all that Anakin had a sudden unflinching allegiance to Palpatine, because Palpatine essentially had Padme held hostage, at least from Anakin's perspective. If Palpatine was the only one who could save her, then that's really no different than Palpatine himself having a knife at her throat.

I think that he recognized that killing the kids was essentially a test of loyalty from Palpatine. If Anakin would kill the kids, then he'd definitely do anything else Palpatine asked, so that was the first thing he asked for. And if the Jedi were ultimately going to sell out their ideals and act like the Sith anyway (which was Windu's huge mistake that got him killed), then I don't think it mattered much to Anakin in the long run, anyway. In Knights of the Old Republic, don't you still raze the Sith Academy as a Light Side Jedi?


End of Spoiler







[this message was edited by DarkZero on Sat 21 May 17:56]

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"Re(5):Grievous" , posted Sat 21 May 18:46post reply

now that I've seen the movie, I can give a better opinion. Well I agree with Time mage about Obi scenes, really well done.

And it makes me really sad that Grievous didn't fight like crazy, still his part in the movie is welldone, and it works nicely.
Note, he didn't ahve a russian style voice in french, got a cool voice.

As for anakin...



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
...Sad that he put the vador suit so late...

End of Spoiler








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"Balance of the Force" , posted Sat 21 May 23:51:post reply

Overall, in my opinion: (SPOILERS!)

Highlights:

-Obi Wan was closer to his Episode 4 self, the one that we actually like. All his scenes kept him in character.
-No lame death for Mace Windu.
-Chewie.
-Bail Organa is cool.
-Almost no JarJar.
-The annoyingly cute baby Jedis got what they deserved.
-Qui Gonn comment near the end, means more than it looks at first, the Jedis found what the Sith wanted.
-The very last scene almost moved me to tears.

Downsides:

-Grievous could have been cooler.
-Anakin switches sides too soon, but maybe that's how the dark side works, we don't know.
-No painful death for JarJar.
-Bail Organa got too little screentime.
-I can't stand Amidala (applies for Episode 2 as well), she needs new brains.





[this message was edited by rid on Sat 21 May 23:53]

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"Re(6):Grievous" , posted Sun 22 May 06:31post reply

As someone who hasn't seen any of the Clone Wars series, I thought Grievous was really cool in Revenge of the Sith.



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Sure, he was running away most of the time, but he still gave the jedi plenty of trouble. The scene where he smashes open the window and climbs on the outside of the ship, the fact that he had all those lightsabers, and his very appearance were all very cool.

As far as him coming off weak, you have to sort of realize that he is weak compared to the major players in this movie. Obi Wan, Anakin, Mace, Yoda, Darth Sideous -- all these guys are supposed to be the best of the best. Even Count Dooku is supposed to be stronger than Grievous, and he wasn't even much of a threat in this movie. The fact that Grievous became the effective head of the droid army and was such a key issue to the war made him seem strong and important to me.


End of Spoiler







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"Re(7):Grievous" , posted Sun 22 May 07:18:post reply

Personally I can't stand the Clone Wars cartoon, so any differnces are okay with me. I think they lost me when they had Mace Windu, a character everyone and their momma knew was going to die destroy a robot army by himself, remove screws from robots, loose his Light Sabor and beat them up by hand, go in to a big Robot Ship and destroy it... it just wasn't Star Wars to me, in the movies their powers have never been that exagerated. I can't stand the character designs either since I really wanted a Star Wars cartoon to look much more realistic then that (at least WB DC cartoons realistic) since we know of the characters from the movies and all. Heh, of course Grevious would be God Tier in that show where Mace Windu could do all of the stuff he could do. Yoda did some God Tier stuff in that show too like landing a huge enemy ship with the force... the irony is if they wanted some one in that show to do God Tier stuff, his name was Anakin - that would of been much more believable or set him up as being 'the man' since Episode II failed to do so.

If it helps Lucas had very little involvement with the cartoon, so if you wish you can ignore it or embrace it, that's up to you. I choose to ignore it myself.





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[this message was edited by Sano on Sun 22 May 07:20]

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"Re(7):Grievous" , posted Sun 22 May 07:21post reply

quote:
As someone who hasn't seen any of the Clone Wars series, I thought Grievous was really cool in Revenge of the Sith.





I'm on the same boat as you. I haven't seen Clone Wars either but I thought Grievous was pretty cool and one of the more interesting villians in the movie. I was an instant fan of him after seeing ep.3.





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"Re(8):Grievous" , posted Sun 22 May 07:22:post reply

quote:
God Tier


Since when do tiers need to be assigned to cartoons?

Plz stop.

Note: 550GET

EDIT: Psssh, I better be at 550 after this edit.





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[this message was edited by Nate on Sun 22 May 07:25]

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"Re(9):Grievous" , posted Sun 22 May 08:05:post reply

quote:
God Tier

Since when do tiers need to be assigned to cartoons?




LOL! When you get into the online Marvel/DC/DBZ power debates, stuff like that comes up in conversation. You can replace my wording as "God like" and "God like stuff" and retain your job with the Nitpicking and not Contributing Police Academy.

Antway, Merry 550 all the same! ^_^





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[this message was edited by Sano on Sun 22 May 08:55]

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"Re(10):Grievous" , posted Sun 22 May 11:37post reply

quote:
Nitpicking and not Contributing Police Academy.


And I am proudly a member. I didn't get this far on usefulness, it was most definitely through 魅力 and 愛.

I don't know; were I actually more proficient/less lazy when reading Japanese I could contribute more there but nah.

ANYWAY THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME QUESTIONING MY PURPOSE AS I DON'T HAVE ONE HERE ANYWAY!





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"Re(2):Re(10):Grievous" , posted Sun 22 May 11:40post reply

quote:
Nitpicking and not Contributing Police Academy.

And I am proudly a member. I didn't get this far on usefulness, it was most definitely through 魅力 and 愛.

I don't know; were I actually more proficient/less lazy when reading Japanese I could contribute more there but nah.

ANYWAY THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME QUESTIONING MY PURPOSE AS I DON'T HAVE ONE HERE ANYWAY!



Ah, Sano got owned again!





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"Re(3):Re(10):Grievous" , posted Sun 22 May 12:58post reply

Saw the movie today.
It didn't suck as much as I was led to believe, nor did I feel that it was a total waste of my time. Along the way, I saw a lot of pretty pictures, so I'm satisfied enough.

blah blah stuff about plot weaknesses, bad acting, etc. blah blah

ok i'm done, time to get some food.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Grievous" , posted Sun 22 May 14:23post reply

quote:
Saw the movie today.
It didn't suck as much as I was led to believe, nor did I feel that it was a total waste of my time. Along the way, I saw a lot of pretty pictures, so I'm satisfied enough.

blah blah stuff about plot weaknesses, bad acting, etc. blah blah

ok i'm done, time to get some food.



I finally saw it today. I loved it. It gave a real since of connection between the two trilogies. I particulary like the very final shot of the movie.

Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
My main problem was that I too wanted to see Qui Gon's ghost.

End of Spoiler

I actually felt that Hayden did a better job than he did in Attack of the Clones and that Natalie Portman's acting was worse in some of her earlier scenes. I loved Obi-wan in this movie.

Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
And the end of the lava scene was excellent. I was just sad to see some of the Jedi die so fast to the Clone Troopers. I mean, it's hard to believe these guys had such good aim at one time and then just sucked at aiming as Storm Troopers. Also I wanted to see Aayla do more than just get herself killed. Did anyone else see the Millennium Falcon?

End of Spoiler









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"Re(5):Re(10):Grievous" , posted Sun 22 May 20:11post reply

I liked it. It did feel rushed but the reason I enjoyed the movie was because everything was falling apart. I knew what was going to happen in the movie without reading any spoiler tags but I still really enjoyed the movie and its all because I found everything so tragic.

I found Anakin's descent into hell tragic because at the start of the movie he was an impatient little punk but he was likeable and good hearted. I found it tragic that Padme watched the government and her husband slowly go down the tubes and she was helpless to do anything about it. I found it tragic that Obi Wan loved Anakin but was forced to go after him.

I knew how the movie was gonna end and there were plotholes or nonesensical plot directions but I still enjoyed very much. And it did feel rushed and it wasn't perfect but the whole tragedy felt great. Like other reviewers have said though, its a shame we had to go through two poor films to get to the good one.

This was the only prequel movie were I actually cared about the characters.

Question: Is Grevious 100% droid or is he a cybernetic being. I mean, he had a biological heart and brain right? Whats his story?

I also thought the deaths of the Jedi was sad. Its like "damn, in less then a second you get your ass betrayed." that really sucks.

One of my favorite scenes was when Yoda knocks out the two red gaurds without even pausing in his entrance. Padme giving birth and her death were also sweet. Vader's screaming 'no' felt very funny though.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Grievous" , posted Sun 22 May 21:42post reply

quote:

Question: Is Grevious 100% droid or is he a cybernetic being. I mean, he had a biological heart and brain right? Whats his story?



I think he's a cyborg, but I don't know what kind of being he was before his reconversion. According to what a friend told me , he's in such a bad shape due to a battle he fought against Mace Windu, in events prior to Episode III.

I loved Windu's Death , he died like a dog, betrayed, electrified and defenestrated. Just what he deserved...





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"Grievous profile" , posted Sun 22 May 22:17post reply

SPOILERISH - from http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/generalgrievous/


When the greedy corporate titans and the disenfranchised systems of the galaxy pooled their resources together to leave the aging Galactic Republic behind, they became the Confederacy of Independent Systems. Their military assets formed a droid army of seemingly limitless size -- a weapon that needed a military mastermind to wield effectively.

From within the ranks of the Confederacy came General Grievous, a brilliant strategist unhindered by compassion or scruples. His lightning strikes and effective campaigns caused his reputation to grow in the eyes of a frightened Republic. To many, he eclipsed the threat posed by Count Dooku, the charismatic leader of the Confederacy's political battlefields -- Grievous was the face of the enemy.

A twisted melding of flesh and metal, General Grievous' body is a deadly weapon forged by the cutting edge developers of the Confederacy. Within the hardened carapace beats the heart of a remorseless killer. Grievous hunted Jedi for sport and proudly displayed his victims' lightsabers around his belt as trophies of his conquests. His unorthodox fighting form and mechanical enhancements gave him an edge in close-quarters combat, and his strategic ingenuity and flawless cunning rendered him almost invincible against the Jedi.

In the final stages of the Clone Wars, Grievous orchestrated a daring strike against the heart of the Republic. His flagship led a fleet of massive warships to Coruscant, where an immense battle raged in the upper atmospheres of the capital world. The fighting had gone on long enough -- one way or another, this strike would lay the foundation for the end of the war. Grievous was determined to be victor, and hoped to add the lightsabers of the most famous Jedi warriors -- Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi -- to his grisly collection.





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"Re(1):Grievous profile" , posted Mon 23 May 01:24post reply

The thought of a droid that walked hunched over, spoke with an accent, and had random coughing fits seemed pretty cool to me. I liked him best of the villains; Sideous was a bit too over-the-top for me and Anakin was merely okay in my eyes until the end. I was kind of disappointed that he isn't all droid, to be honest. But I guess his actual profile is okay too. And if his Clone Wars incarnation is even more kick-ass, I guess I have to see that now.

As far as the movie itself, it was good. I probably would have gotten more out of it if I'd seen the first two movies or Clone Wars. The whole lava planet part was exceptionally good. A couple scenes were too rushed (as in too much happened in too short a time)...



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
In just one scene, three Jedi die in less than a minute, Mace breaks the Jedi mindthink, Sideous gets his ghastly appearance, Anakin turns and pledges full allegence to the Dark Side. Slow it down. The final ending scene snippets also seemed way too fast.

End of Spoiler



...but overall it was very enjoyable.





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"Re(2):Grievous profile" , posted Mon 23 May 05:13post reply

This was my first exposure to Grievous and I, too, quite liked him. A hunched over, coughing cyborg who wore his cape less like a symbol of power and more like an old guy wearing a bathrobe made him memorable even with the constant blast of visuals the movie was unloading. I also liked that his method of lightsaber dueling was to spin the things like crazy. Considering every part of the lightsaber beam is potentially lethal I'm surpised it took six movies for someone to use them in such an aggresive method.

Man, between Vader's sulpher induced wheeze and Grievous coughing fits it seems that becoming a cyborg is a losing proposition in the Star Wars universe.





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"Re(3):Grievous profile" , posted Mon 23 May 07:11post reply

Here's a question which I don't think any of the Jedi really seemed to "think" about:

how do you arrest a Sith lord without, say, dismembering or similarly incapacitating him?





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"Re(4):Grievous profile" , posted Mon 23 May 09:27post reply

quote:
Here's a question which I don't think any of the Jedi really seemed to "think" about:

how do you arrest a Sith lord without, say, dismembering or similarly incapacitating him?



I still don't get what the whol Quigong dead jedi talk was all about. Was that Lucas trying to explain the 'ghost' trick that Yoda and Obi-Wan pull off in the later movies?





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"Re(5):Grievous profile" , posted Mon 23 May 10:10post reply

quote:
Here's a question which I don't think any of the Jedi really seemed to "think" about:

how do you arrest a Sith lord without, say, dismembering or similarly incapacitating him?


I still don't get what the whol Quigong dead jedi talk was all about. Was that Lucas trying to explain the 'ghost' trick that Yoda and Obi-Wan pull off in the later movies?



Yes.







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"Re(6):Grievous profile" , posted Mon 23 May 10:33post reply

quote:

I still don't get what the whol Quigong dead jedi talk was all about. Was that Lucas trying to explain the 'ghost' trick that Yoda and Obi-Wan pull off in the later movies?


Yes.



Spoilers ahoy!



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
It's also like Rid noted, the good Jedi had found a way to transcend death which was something that was beyond the Sith. One of the main lies that the Emperor told to Anakin was that there was a Sith way to restore life. Whether there was an actual Sith method is something for SW geeks to debate but the Emperor made it sound as if he knew the secret and would be willing to share it if Anakin switched sides. It's only after Anakin pledges loyalty that the Emperor -who at this point looks like a marshmellow that was baked a microwave oven- amends his promise to something along the lines that now that the two of them are united they can figure the secret out. The Emperor even had a happy smirk upon telling Vader about the death of his wife since not only did Vader no longer have any ties to his old life but now he could drop that whole regeneration story. It turned out the light side had the answer all along. True, it was only open to those who were adept in the Force so it wouldn't have helped in Anakin's case but the dumbass wasn't supposed to be married anyway.

End of Spoiler







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"Re(7):Grievous profile" , posted Mon 23 May 16:55post reply

finally found some time to watch it ! I enjoyed it a lot, and the padme birth scene was a bit rushed, though besides that I really liked the action and fighting scenes, they were very strong and solid. Yoda gained back my respect in this one. Hahahah and Windu XP glad he's gone...I liked the many little visual throwbacks to the old trilogy.. very cool.





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"Order 66" , posted Mon 23 May 20:48post reply

I have a question regarding the "Order 66": were the clones "programmed" to follow that order blindly at the moment it's made, not being even conscious about it, or rather they were informed about what to do when they got said order?

I ask this because just before hearing the order, the clone captain kindly returns Obi Wan his lightsaber, but if they knew that sometime they would have to attack him, it would be preferrable not to help him.




Also, why the Mace Windu hate? I like him a lot: He's serious, wise, and strong (the strongest, in fact). What's not likeable about him?





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"Re(1):Order 66" , posted Mon 23 May 22:36post reply

quote:
I have a question regarding the "Order 66": were the clones "programmed" to follow that order blindly at the moment it's made, not being even conscious about it, or rather they were informed about what to do when they got said order?

I ask this because just before hearing the order, the clone captain kindly returns Obi Wan his lightsaber, but if they knew that sometime they would have to attack him, it would be preferrable not to help him.




Also, why the Mace Windu hate? I like him a lot: He's serious, wise, and strong (the strongest, in fact). What's not likeable about him?



I also want to know what is up with the Mace Hate? As for Order 66 it could be (a) they were programmed like TM said. Or (b) they were all briefed on an emergency 'anti-jedi' plan when trained. Afterall, the Jedi were so powerful, the regular government and army must have had a contingency plan in case they went evil. But I think its most likely (a). I don't think we'll ever know the full details on this. Maybe its in the novelization... Still pretty damn tragic scene when they all get betrayed. Sad!

What I don't get is this whole business about clones. I saw Episode 2 like only once. I've been wanting to re-watch for a long time now but never got around to it. But didn't the bad guys originally hatch the clones? I thought the Seperatists hatched the clones. But now we hear the Senator say "our clone intelligence has found Grievous..." I know that Sideous=Palpatine, duh. But I thought the Republic fought the clones in episode 2. What is the deal wit these clones. Why would the Seperatists use clones anyway if they were so tech heavy with their droid army.

Now I'm really confused. It shouldn't be this way. its just star wars!





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"Re(2):Order 66" , posted Mon 23 May 23:50post reply

quote:
What I don't get is this whole business about clones. I saw Episode 2 like only once. I've been wanting to re-watch for a long time now but never got around to it. But didn't the bad guys originally hatch the clones? I thought the Seperatists hatched the clones. But now we hear the Senator say "our clone intelligence has found Grievous..." I know that Sideous=Palpatine, duh. But I thought the Republic fought the clones in episode 2. What is the deal wit these clones. Why would the Seperatists use clones anyway if they were so tech heavy with their droid army.


The clones were "preordered" by some Jedi long time ago, supposedly under the orders or influenced by Darth Sidious, to make an army for the Republic. when the Jedis discover this army, they don't like it, but an emergency (the separatists rise) leads to granting special powers to Palpatine, and thus he orders the use of that army (which he supposedly asked to be made, probably being part of his long-planned scheme).

So, to sum up: The separatists have their own droid army, and the Republic, even without wanting it in the first place, has its clone army.





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"Re(3):Order 66" , posted Tue 24 May 04:39post reply

I found the movie a lot sadder when I saw it the second time. I almost cried like a little bitch...





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"Re(4):Order 66" , posted Tue 24 May 04:51post reply

quote:
I found the movie a lot sadder when I saw it the second time. I almost cried like a little bitch...



I found that the more I discussed the movie, the worse it and its corollorary implications on the other movies got.





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"Re(1):Revenge of the Sith" , posted Tue 24 May 04:59post reply

The one scene I liked



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Anakin and Palpatine are talking on that space opera orb thing. Palpatine telling the old Sith tale, basically giving out background info on himself.

End of Spoiler



That scene was just nice. The dialog was good. As a friend said, i'ts like Lucas went to the restroom and someone else quickly directed that scene so he wouldnt screw it up.

Grievous was cool. Probably because he has a skull face.

quote:
film, a spoiler






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"Re(5):Order 66" , posted Tue 24 May 05:02post reply

quote:
I found the movie a lot sadder when I saw it the second time. I almost cried like a little bitch...


I found that the more I discussed the movie, the worse it and its corollorary implications on the other movies got.



Huh? Que paso? What do you mean? Of course I saw all the ties the movie has with the other prequels and the original trilogy. Was there something else I missed?

The first time I saw it, I really felt sad for Anakin, Padme and Obiwan. The second time I saw it I didn't feel as much feeling and I took better notice of the craptastic dialog and acting.

Nonetheless I really did enjoy the movie. The ultra sad thing though is that with a better director and screenwriter this movie could have insanely great. The story and dynamics were there, but the dialog and acting was just crap-rific. Lucas has the right ideas, but he just sucks so badly as a screenwriter and director.





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"Re(6):Order 66" , posted Tue 24 May 06:22:post reply

See, the first time I saw it I was like "I GOTTA GO TO THE BATHROOM! FINISH MOVIE FINISH!" So I didn't get a chance to be sad the first time. Right after Anakin got his Ass handed to him I had to run to the bathroom and come back (my friend warned me not to drink that big soda an hour and a half before the movie but that was the only way I was staying awake, I fall asleep in theaters in the daytime without caffeine)so I had to see it a second time. Call it latent sadness on my part.

Not to mention being on line since 11:00 PM, waiting in the movie theater for an hour and a half for the movie to start at 1:30 AM makes for quite the... surreal experience. If it was up to me I wouldn't of tried to see this movie (or any big budget flick) like this on day one, would of waited until the weekend but oh well. Ya gots ta hand wit ya boys...





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[this message was edited by Sano on Tue 24 May 06:24]

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"Re(6):Order 66" , posted Tue 24 May 06:39post reply

quote:

Nonetheless I really did enjoy the movie. The ultra sad thing though is that with a better director and screenwriter this movie could have insanely great. The story and dynamics were there, but the dialog and acting was just crap-rific. Lucas has the right ideas, but he just sucks so badly as a screenwriter and director.



Yeah, besides some Palpatine dialoges, the rest of the script was utter crap to me. I felt as if I were reading a Rob Liefeld comic. And this scene when R2-D2 gets kicked while Obi Wan and Anakin are trapped in the silly white light field made me feel ashamed of being in the theater...

And the reason I celebrated Mace Windu's death is he had no sense of esthetics...shaved head, violet lightsaber...what would have been next, a leopard-stamped Jedi robe? Damned Blacksplotation Jedi...





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"Re(5):Re(10):Grievous" , posted Tue 24 May 07:42post reply

quote:
And the end of the lava scene was excellent. I was just sad to see some of the Jedi die so fast to the Clone Troopers. I mean, it's hard to believe these guys had such good aim at one time and then just sucked at aiming as Storm Troopers.


I didn't get a very good look at them, but I think that most of the Clone Troopers who took down the Jedi were actually Clone Commandoes, like Cody or the guys from the Republic Commando game. They're not as genetically docile as the other troopers, they weren't grown as quickly, and they were personally trained by Jango Fett and various other specialists from around the galaxy. They're basically small teams of Boba Fetts, but if I remember correctly, there are only like 200 of them out of many thousands of Clone Troopers.

quote:
I have a question regarding the "Order 66": were the clones "programmed" to follow that order blindly at the moment it's made, not being even conscious about it, or rather they were informed about what to do when they got said order?

I ask this because just before hearing the order, the clone captain kindly returns Obi Wan his lightsaber, but if they knew that sometime they would have to attack him, it would be preferrable not to help him.


I think it could go either way. They probably knew that they were never really on the side of the Jedi, so it could've been genetic or they could've just know ahead of time that they would eventually have to fight the Jedi. Cody giving Obi-Wan his lightsaber makes sense though, because even if they knew about the order, they never knew when it would come, and the only reason Sidious used it when he did was because he was exposed.

So, one other thing: If this whole "appearing as a phantom after you die" thing is actually a learned Jedi technique, rather than a natural thing like it appeared to be in the original trilogy, then why does Anakin appear alongside Obi-Wan and Yoda at the end? He couldn't have been taught after Episode III, because he's evil by then. He also couldn't have been taught by Qui-Gon Jinn, because then he wouldn't need to become a cyborg, he'd just become a phantom Sith and get his revenge that way.





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"Re(6):Re(10):Grievous" , posted Tue 24 May 08:10post reply

quote:

So, one other thing: If this whole "appearing as a phantom after you die" thing is actually a learned Jedi technique, rather than a natural thing like it appeared to be in the original trilogy, then why does Anakin appear alongside Obi-Wan and Yoda at the end? He couldn't have been taught after Episode III, because he's evil by then. He also couldn't have been taught by Qui-Gon Jinn, because then he wouldn't need to become a cyborg, he'd just become a phantom Sith and get his revenge that way.



Qui-gon taught Yoda and Obiwan. How did Vader do it? You could easily call it a plot hole / goof up. I would rather argue that (a) Anakin is so strong in the force that he was able to pull it off on his own. And/or (b) Qui-gon or someone else taught him in the afterlife. After all, he became good in the end.

Did they use James Earl Jone's for Vader's lines at the end? Probably, sure sounded like him. I wonder what whats-his-name (anakin's actor) would have sounded with a vader synthesized voice. I kinda wish they used his voice instead of James'. I also thought that last scene where he wakes up from the operating table and asks for Padme was poignant and hilarious.

And too bad for Padme. Thats what you get for being a girl in a star wars movie.





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"attention:" , posted Tue 24 May 08:15post reply

*ahem*

NERDS!





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"Re(1):attention:" , posted Tue 24 May 11:15post reply

LOL! Just the fact that you post at MMCAFE makes you a nerd. Rejoice in nerdum! Adjust your pocket protector and hold your quadrifocal glasses high!

There was an early trailer where it was Anakin's voice coming out of the Darth Vader suit. It didn't sound right, you can tell it was wrong because when he said Master it sounded closer to "Masterrr" the 'r' lingeres. When James Earl Jones says it it sounds closer to "Maste-" that's a bit of an exageration, you hear the r but it doesn't linger. In the movie, the r didn't linger. Either they got James Earl Jones to provide the voice at the end or they did a bang up job faking the voice with technology or something.





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"Re(2):attention:" , posted Tue 24 May 23:48:post reply

Saw it too, wasn't too impressed, but at least, it was a lot more effective than Eps I and II (though the dialogues are still either cheesy or plain pathetic, especially in any scene involving romance...). Let's say it did its job.
Haven't seen Clone Wars yet (plan on watching it this week, probably will re-watch the movie after that), and like others, I thought Grievous was kinda cool. I did find it a bit odd that he was portrayed as a weak coward. At first, I was like "A droid that coughs and has trouble walking, that's just lame, droids don't cough..." then I saw he was part-living creature, so it made sense, and it actually made the character cooler. Although, as I seem to get from the discussions, he seems to have had quite a brush with Windu, so it kinda makes sense that he's not so bad-ass in the movie, since he's so diminished; plus they do give the info that he at least WAS a bad-ass, since he managed to kill at least 4 jedi (which is clearly a sign of power and fighting ability... then again, he could have just tricked them and killed them in a lame way, I wouldn't know, though it would kinda go with his character from the movie...)





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"Re(3):attention:" , posted Wed 25 May 18:29post reply

Last one in;

I finally broke down and saw it.



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
The first half hour or so was fine, even fun with R2 scening (man that thing screams a lot in this one) and the droids having some kind of personality (I assume this came from the cartoon, because I don't remember the droids having any such comedic talents in the previous eps). The next hour was passable; though I still think Anakin's actor is horrid, at least he has that in common with his son Luke so it didn't seem out of place.

But the end I felt was 20 minutes of wasted time. From a storytelling perspective it had no resolution, so of course that's not good. They could have just saved tons and stopped the movie after Obi-wan defeats Anakin and walks away. But NOOOOO, they were more concerned about making the link to Episode 4 even more glaringly obvious, even though it was already done by that point. Anyone who's seen them knows that she had twins, that Vader would eventually get the space samurai getup, that Obi-Wan and Yoda would be back... what's left to explain but nitpicking details that the idiot Star Wars fan demands? I'm sure that they ate it up too. Even though Vader was a total pussy after he got the extreme armor makeover, I'm sure the fans just made up some BS excuse like "he's just adjusting to his new identity!" or "he's killing his light side!" LOL nerds


End of Spoiler



And with that I'm done. Thank god that's over.





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"Re(4):attention:" , posted Wed 25 May 19:38post reply

quote:
Anyone who's seen them knows that she had twins, that Vader would eventually get the space samurai getup, that Obi-Wan and Yoda would be back... what's left to explain but nitpicking details that the idiot Star Wars fan demands? I'm sure that they ate it up too. Even though Vader was a total pussy after he got the extreme armor makeover, I'm sure the fans just made up some BS excuse like "he's just adjusting to his new identity!" or "he's killing his light side!" LOL nerds



I might be alone on this, because I know that the final scene with Vader was very poorly done, but I thought the fact that he asks about his wife after becoming a cyborg killing machine was pretty cool. I was always under the impression that Anakin basically dies, becomes a senseless and evil killing machine devoted to the Dark Side, and then sort of "wakes up" at the end of Return of the Jedi. Between asking about his wife after he becomes Vader and earlier giving Padme the same "Let's rule the galaxy together" speech that he gives Luke in Return of the Jedi, you really get the feeling that there was real human being under Vader's mask that was making conscious decisions to hurt people, including his own children. It kind of makes him even more evil.





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"Plain and Simple" , posted Thu 26 May 00:40post reply

The movie was great! Lightsaber duels, and wookies...thats all I need in a StarWars movie. The only dissapointment was general Grievous' stupid demise, hes really a bad ass in the comic books and in The SW cartoons...





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"Re(7):Grievous profile" , posted Thu 26 May 01:11post reply

quote:
Spoilers ahoy!




Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
"True, it was only open to those who were adept in the Force so it wouldn't have helped in Anakin's case but the dumbass wasn't supposed to be married anyway."

Not to sound like an idiot, but Padme gave up the will to live (as it was explained in the ending) because of Anakin going to the dark yadda, yadda. The overall resolution to keeping bitch alive is to NOT BE EVIL. So there. None of this Sith have the answer crap, or the light side had it all along, just Do the Right Thing.


End of Spoiler



Overall I enjoyed the movie, more than most did I think. It made me really want to see the original trilogy. Which I plan on doing soon.





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"Re(8):Grievous profile" , posted Thu 26 May 16:22post reply

I'd just like to note that it wouldn't have been a Star Wars movie without A) Padme giving up the will to live because raising her newborn children and protecting them from a psychotic monster with super powers just isn't good enough a reason, and B) One of the female Jedi (I think it was Aayla Secura? The blue Twi'lek?) being killed by the Clone Troopers in such a gruesome way that it couldn't even be shown on screen.

They can throw in a character like Bail Organa and make him incredibly likeable over the space of one or two scenes, but I guess that if they had even one likeable female character, they'd be forced to put the whole movie under the "Expanded Universe" section of StarWars.com, because it obviously wouldn't be part of the Star Wars canon any more.

I know that that's incredibly negative and borders on whiny, but really... did anyone else have a major problem with that aspect of Episode III? Between Episode II and Episode III, we had Knights of the Old Republic and Clone Wars, which both had great female characters. It kind of made the lack of strong women (and presence of worthless, pathetic ones) in Episode III really obvious.





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"Re(9):Grievous profile" , posted Fri 27 May 00:03post reply

quote:
I'd just like to note that it wouldn't have been a Star Wars movie without A) Padme giving up the will to live because raising her newborn children and protecting them from a psychotic monster with super powers just isn't good enough a reason, and B) One of the female Jedi (I think it was Aayla Secura? The blue Twi'lek?) being killed by the Clone Troopers in such a gruesome way that it couldn't even be shown on screen.

They can throw in a character like Bail Organa and make him incredibly likeable over the space of one or two scenes, but I guess that if they had even one likeable female character, they'd be forced to put the whole movie under the "Expanded Universe" section of StarWars.com, because it obviously wouldn't be part of the Star Wars canon any more.

I know that that's incredibly negative and borders on whiny, but really... did anyone else have a major problem with that aspect of Episode III? Between Episode II and Episode III, we had Knights of the Old Republic and Clone Wars, which both had great female characters. It kind of made the lack of strong women (and presence of worthless, pathetic ones) in Episode III really obvious.



It seems the Star Wars movies have never quite known what to do with female characters. The original movies had the feel and energy of young boys out playing in the back yard with a token girl thrown into the mix. When it was revealed that the lone female was the sibling of another one of the characters it unintentionally made her seem even more like somebody's kid sister who was tagging along with the boys. I'm not sure what to make of the main female character in the new flicks dying of a swoon like she's in a Victorian potboiler but it's not exactly the most progressive of endings that could have been come up with.





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"Yeah, lets get racist and sexist" , posted Fri 27 May 00:54post reply

quote:
I'd just like to note that it wouldn't have been a Star Wars movie without A) Padme giving up the will to live because raising her newborn children and protecting them from a psychotic monster with super powers just isn't good enough a reason, and B) One of the female Jedi (I think it was Aayla Secura? The blue Twi'lek?) being killed by the Clone Troopers in such a gruesome way that it couldn't even be shown on screen.

They can throw in a character like Bail Organa and make him incredibly likeable over the space of one or two scenes, but I guess that if they had even one likeable female character, they'd be forced to put the whole movie under the "Expanded Universe" section of StarWars.com, because it obviously wouldn't be part of the Star Wars canon any more.

I know that that's incredibly negative and borders on whiny, but really... did anyone else have a major problem with that aspect of Episode III? Between Episode II and Episode III, we had Knights of the Old Republic and Clone Wars, which both had great female characters. It kind of made the lack of strong women (and presence of worthless, pathetic ones) in Episode III really obvious.



I have mixed feelings on this DZ. I noticed this also but didn't think much of it because... it's Star Wars damnit. It's just a silly movie.

But you do make valid points. I can't think of anything worthwhile being done by women in any of the Prequel movies. In all six movies, women seemingly need to be rescued all the time. There wasn't even a female jedi MASTER in the prequel movies. There wasn't even a female rebel pilot or high level (or low level) female Imperial officer.

Its just a playground for boys. What the other poster wrote about it being simply boys playing 'pretend' in the backyard was a perfect analogy.

Having said that. Eh, whatever. In a way, its very unfair for women because this is a movie that everyone should enjoy and love. But at the same time, "screw political correctness and equality."

I always get a little ticked off when Latinos are under represented in movies or get crappy roles. Jimmy Smitts was the only Latino that I can think of in the entire SW movie series. And while he got an important role (albeit little speaking parts), its still disappointing to me.

There were only two prominent black men in the entire series. Were there any Asians or Indians or... [insert other ethnic group here]?

It was made by a WHITE MAN. Eh. My point is... I don't care. I told my friend that not only was there only one Latino in the Star Wars cast, but his home planet gets blown up in Episode 4. I said, "the Latino Planet" gets blown up in Episode 4-- George Lucas doesn't like Latinos! There are no more Latinos in the Star Wars universe. Of course, his response was "that was short sighted of the Emperor and Vader to do that. Afterall, who's going to clean the Death Star."

Of course, it would have been some Asian engineers who designed the Death Star. And you know that in the lower levels they had a special LAN section full of computers and high speed access so all the Koreans could take a break from blowing up planets and play some Starcraft or WoW.

And of course all the white people are supervising. And the women are all sitting at home, barefoot and pregnant.

What was my point... eh?





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"Re(1):Yeah, lets get racist and sexist" , posted Fri 27 May 01:15post reply

Shin and Dark Zero, those are good points. I wonder though if it's that big a deal since Star Wars is set in some other galaxy and time... Yeah, they're going for a variety of races and creatures (see any bar scene in Star Wars) for a vivid feel, and I guess different real-world races might help that somewhat, but humans aren't everything in these movies it seems. The different ethnicities in the movies would probably be a negligable factor in the galaxy Lucas made, I'd think...certainly there's probably not a "Latino planet" or Asian engineer stereotypes, heh. At least Lando was cool in Jedi.





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"Re(1):Yeah, lets get racist and sexist" , posted Fri 27 May 01:22post reply

You can find racist/anti-whatever bullshit in any movie you like... I don't think any of it was made on purpose though... (there are obvious exceptions though...)
I mean, it's not like Lucas would write his script purposedly mocking a specific race or minority. For Christ's sake, the movie shows hundreds of alien races living in apparent harmony (as in "nothing worse than us humans living together"). It's like saying something like "This japanese movie is racist, all the actors are japanese, there's like, only one black guy and he doesn't have a big role".





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"Re(2):Yeah, lets get racist and sexist" , posted Fri 27 May 01:34post reply

Sometimes it's better to have no women if the writers don't know how to handle them... you know, it can be ever more sexist if female characters were around...





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"the star wars" , posted Fri 27 May 01:47:post reply

quote:

It seems the Star Wars movies have never quite known what to do with female characters. The original movies had the feel and energy of young boys out playing in the back yard with a token girl thrown into the mix. When it was revealed that the lone female was the sibling of another one of the characters it unintentionally made her seem even more like somebody's kid sister who was tagging along with the boys. I'm not sure what to make of the main female character in the new flicks dying of a swoon like she's in a Victorian potboiler but it's not exactly the most progressive of endings that could have been come up with.



I was going to respond here, but I don't think spending twenty minutes of my time to personally insult George Lucas would be worth it in the long run.

The guy does like to get puritanical on that ass, though. He seems to be something of a backward old-fashioned thinker, and a bit naive. Maybe the problem got worse as he got older (Greedo shoots first!) and fatter.

Okay, a few minutes of personal insult will do.





/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Fri 27 May 01:48]

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"An Ode to Star Wars" , posted Fri 27 May 02:42post reply

Let's fill up flourescent light bulbs with liquid fuel!





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"Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Thu 2 Jun 00:51post reply

Just some (late) ideas I wanted to post about.

In some way, Episodes 1~3 made a better movie of Return of the Jedi (the worst scripted part of the old trilogy). Now the fight against the Empire (with Ewok silliness and all) is just a sidestory, the main part of the movie is (with no doubt) redeeming Anakin. I suggest you all to see it again if you can. The original, not the DVD crap.

It's almost a shame that Lucas won't make the sequel trilogy after all, but that's what the (awful) new ending of Return of the Jedi was pointing at, I guess.

And a sidenote: When I saw the old trilogy as a kid, Vader and the Emperor scared me a lot, I'm sure I had nightmares at a point or another. But the kids I saw in the teather watching Episode 3 were almost giggling when you see Anakin... errr... "wounded" after his last fight (won't spoil). There's something so wrong with today's kids...





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"Re(1):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Thu 2 Jun 05:23post reply

quote:

It's almost a shame that Lucas won't make the sequel trilogy after all, but that's what the (awful) new ending of Return of the Jedi was pointing at, I guess.



Well, Lucas is just a greedy bastard, so I assume he will make the remaining films (if not a remake of the old trilogy, or both)in a near future, they mean easy money after all...and well, if he dies before filming them, then his inheritors will. You know filming Star Wars is easy, you just need to convince some friends in funny suits and ugly rubber masks to do the moron a bit inside a blue room, and then hiring about 300 Koreans to make the rest of it with those überPCs of theirs...



quote:

And a sidenote: When I saw the old trilogy as a kid, Vader and the Emperor scared me a lot, I'm sure I had nightmares at a point or another. But the kids I saw in the teather watching Episode 3 were almost giggling when you see Anakin... errr... "wounded" after his last fight (won't spoil). There's something so wrong with today's kids...



Look what Naruto is doing to our children !!!!!





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"Re(2):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Thu 2 Jun 10:53post reply

quote:
Look what Naruto is doing to our children !!!!!

I just know what parents aren't doing: raising them correctly.





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"Re(1):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Thu 2 Jun 11:13post reply

quote:

And a sidenote: When I saw the old trilogy as a kid, Vader and the Emperor scared me a lot, I'm sure I had nightmares at a point or another. But the kids I saw in the teather watching Episode 3 were almost giggling when you see Anakin... errr... "wounded" after his last fight (won't spoil). There's something so wrong with today's kids...



Giggling? Good lord, I'm 24, and i didn't expect that to happen.

Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
My mouth was open when I saw that Obi-wan had cut off Anakin's leg and arm. I mean, I was shocked. I thought Anakin was just going to get his legs burned off by the lava, I didn't know they'd get cut off. And I was also shocked just watching Anakin walk into the room with the younglings, though I suppose I knew they had to die...

End of Spoiler









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"Re(2):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Thu 2 Jun 13:39post reply

quote:

And a sidenote: When I saw the old trilogy as a kid, Vader and the Emperor scared me a lot, I'm sure I had nightmares at a point or another. But the kids I saw in the teather watching Episode 3 were almost giggling when you see Anakin... errr... "wounded" after his last fight (won't spoil). There's something so wrong with today's kids...


Giggling? Good lord, I'm 24, and i didn't expect that to happen.



I was also shocked, but its true, kids nowaday just dont feel enough





hayaku!!

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"Re(3):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Thu 2 Jun 17:04post reply

quote:

I was also shocked, but its true, kids nowaday just dont feel enough



I wouldn't say I was shocked, but greatly surprised Lucas decided to be so explicit. I really enjoyed this scene, it's the most dramatic scene I've ever seen in Star Wars. In fact, that's what I liked the most in the whole film, beside Palpatine's speeches.





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"Re(2):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Thu 2 Jun 17:36post reply

quote:
Look what Naruto is doing to our children !!!!!


WAIT! it's a lie! I'm doing nothing to childrens!!!






We are all mad at some point....

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"Re(3):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Thu 2 Jun 18:31post reply

quote:
Look what Naruto is doing to our children !!!!!

WAIT! it's a lie! I'm doing nothing to childrens!!!



You pervert... ¬_¬





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"Wark" , posted Thu 2 Jun 18:50post reply

quote:

I just know what parents aren't doing: raising them correctly.



When I worked at a II, one of my coworkers shared a nice story with me: He had been called in on a project with a team at another company the previous year. Whenever they sat down on a design meeting, they'd throw ideas in and develop them. That was the purpose, but on this project there was one guy who would ALWAYS find something wrong with an idea, no matter what it was. I call this guy AVERAGE GAMER FANGUY. "Oh, that was done in Zelda." "Oh, that's not fun, nobody will play that." "Oh, nobody plays platformers any more." So they'd have hours where they'd sit around and try to come up with something, and AGF would just shoot everything down until it ended in some kind of argument. And not surprisingly, that was as far as his abilities went; every meeting went like this for several months, with no progress at all, and not ONE time did AGF ever bring up an idea of his own. EVER. He was even asked several times, but he would always dodge the question and pretend to be interested in someone else's idea (only to bite into it again). So the project was killed, everyone got laid off and now AGF fries apples and fingernails at Boston Chicken for minimum wage.





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"Re(3):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Thu 2 Jun 18:51post reply

quote:

And a sidenote: When I saw the old trilogy as a kid, Vader and the Emperor scared me a lot, I'm sure I had nightmares at a point or another. But the kids I saw in the teather watching Episode 3 were almost giggling when you see Anakin... errr... "wounded" after his last fight (won't spoil). There's something so wrong with today's kids...


Giggling? Good lord, I'm 24, and i didn't expect that to happen.


I was also shocked, but its true, kids nowaday just dont feel enough



The problem with the entire movie is the fact that if people are laughing, there are both good and bad reasons why they could be laughing. The acting in some scenes is so pitiful that even if the scene is immensely dark and serious, it can still be hilarious. I can imagine that the kids were laughing because, as you're assuming, they're sick and desensitized, but I can also see them laughing for the same reason that a lot of adults in my audience were: Hayden Christensen was screaming less like a tortured villain and more like a five-year-old child being sent to his room. On one level it works, because the Sith are immensely powerful and badass on the outside and fearful and pathetic on the inside, like when Palpatine runs from Yoda, even though he can kick Yoda's ass. On another level, Hayden Christensen is not Ian McDiarmid. One is an actor and the other is not.

Probably the worst example of this dynamic is the final scene with Darth Vader. On paper, it's a pretty brilliant scene, and for me it kind of redefined Darth Vader in the original trilogy. But in the actual scene, James Earl Jones gives the single worst "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" in the history of cinema. The entire theater was laughing its collective ass off.





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"Re(4):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Thu 2 Jun 18:59post reply

quote:
Look what Naruto is doing to our children !!!!!

WAIT! it's a lie! I'm doing nothing to childrens!!!

You pervert... ¬_¬


It's a lie!! I told you!!


Back on topic, as for Vador's NOOOOO0......
Yes it was absolutely not necesery.

In my theatre, what people was complaining the most was the fact that some important point have lasted like 5 or 10Min on screen when they lost 20 other on something not that important.... Like anakins switching to dark side or the jedi death was to quick at peoples taste...






We are all mad at some point....

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"Re(4):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Thu 2 Jun 21:38post reply

quote:

Probably the worst example of this dynamic is the final scene with Darth Vader. On paper, it's a pretty brilliant scene, and for me it kind of redefined Darth Vader in the original trilogy. But in the actual scene, James Earl Jones gives the single worst "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" in the history of cinema. The entire theater was laughing its collective ass off.



Yeah, I read it in the official comic adaptation prior to watching the film, and I found it quite decent, even well thought I'd dare to say. The problem is I expected it to be even better in the film, but this "It's alive, alive!!!" sense completely ruined the scene. And I assure you, Constantino "Spanish Vader" Romero's "NOOOO!!!" it's even worse than Earl Jone's (and they have almost the same voice pitch...)





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"Re(5):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Fri 3 Jun 01:01post reply

quote:

Probably the worst example of this dynamic is the final scene with Darth Vader. On paper, it's a pretty brilliant scene, and for me it kind of redefined Darth Vader in the original trilogy. But in the actual scene, James Earl Jones gives the single worst "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!" in the history of cinema. The entire theater was laughing its collective ass off.


Yeah, I read it in the official comic adaptation prior to watching the film, and I found it quite decent, even well thought I'd dare to say. The problem is I expected it to be even better in the film, but this "It's alive, alive!!!" sense completely ruined the scene. And I assure you, Constantino "Spanish Vader" Romero's "NOOOO!!!" it's even worse than Earl Jone's (and they have almost the same voice pitch...)



Como empezemos a meternos con Constantino Romero vamos a tener problemas muy serios tú y yo... Al meterte con Constantino Romero no sólo te estás metiendo con Darth Vader, sino con, entre otros, Clint Eastwood. "Venga, alégrame el día...".

:D





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"Re(6):Returning to the Jedi again" , posted Fri 3 Jun 16:24post reply

quote:

Como empezemos a meternos con Constantino Romero vamos a tener problemas muy serios tú y yo... Al meterte con Constantino Romero no sólo te estás metiendo con Darth Vader, sino con, entre otros, Clint Eastwood. "Venga, alégrame el día...".

:D



No, si a mi me encana Consti, pero hay que reconocer que desde La Parodia Nacional el tío no levanta cabeza (mira que terminar anunciando una puñetera marca de colchones...). La verdad es que, si me dicen que ha dedicado 15 minutos a preparar sus dos frases, me lo creo a pies juntillas (de hecho, le habrán sobrado unos cuantos...)