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| DarkZero 1163th Post
 
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|  "Re(1):Afraid for Comic movies" , posted Thu 17 Mar 13:24
quote:
I've read a couple of possible rumors at superherohype.com about the upcoming movies of Superman and X-men 3 that worry me about both movies. The X-men 3 rumor is that Beast, Gambit, and Angel will be in X-men 3. While I'm not against those characters, they say that Angel will possibly be a girl. If it's the actualy girl who used that name in the Morrison run, then I wouldn't be that upset, but if they freakin' change Warren's sex I will refuse to see X-men 3 in theaters and possible at all.
This is most likely BS. The only things they screwed up in the two X-Men movies were Rogue's age and that one crappy "Toad that gets hit by lightning" line in the first movie. Everything else has been dead on and they've really tried to make each movie a wink and a nod toward the hardcore fans with all of the in-jokes and name drops. They've also explicitly said in the past that even though they want to include Beast and Angel, they haven't because they're essentially CG characters, which are A) hard, and B) look like crap. Anything more jarring than Nightcrawler isn't going to fit in with the rest of the movie.
The Return of Superman spoiler is possible, though. The whole concept of the movie is that Superman, having already become a famous superhero, disappeared for a few years, and that the movie is his reappearance. So even if that spoiler isn't true, expect something like it. Probably something less extreme, given that (I think) Brian Singer from X-Men 1 and 2 is heading up the film.
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| Luisinan 1004th Post
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| "Re(3):Re(10):Street Fighter Manga and other s" , posted Thu 17 Mar 16:13:
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I've read a couple of possible rumors at superherohype.com about the upcoming movies of Superman and X-men 3 that worry me about both movies. The X-men 3 rumor is that Beast, Gambit, and Angel will be in X-men 3. While I'm not against those characters, they say that Angel will possibly be a girl. If it's the actualy girl who used that name in the Morrison run, then I wouldn't be that upset, but if they freakin' change Warren's sex I will refuse to see X-men 3 in theaters and possible at all. The other rumor about the Superman movie is that while Being as these aren't truely confirmed as fact yet though I'll wait to pass judgement when I know more facts.
My gut reaction was HW is acting like a fanboy. After a minute of further consideration, I still think your acting like a fanboy. The rumors you are talking about are minor and insignificant IMO. Its like the big fuss made about Spidey's organic web shooters. Its a dumb minor change, who cares.
Angel (Warren) never got any characterization in the x-books. He was always the nice millionaire and thats it. He never got developed into a 'playboy'. He got a little tortured in X-Factor by Cameron Hodges manipulations but that was it. Boring ass character. If they make him into a girl, a robot, a talking dog-- big improvement IMO. Warren just never got developed. Thats Marvel and the writers fault. Thinking the X3 will be trash because of this change, is silly IMO. If Warren died, would anyone care? Yes, but only because he was an original X-Man. But other then that, no. People were sad when Peter (Colossus) died, but he got a lot more character development then Warren ever did.
About Lois. Yeah, so she finds a new man. Wow. OMG. She's a whore and she's evil. No. she's not. She probably thought Supes was never gonna come back. So what, she was just gonna mope around the rest of her life? That would be a far worse characterization of Lois. Lois is not a loser, she doesn't mope for anyone. If she thinks Supes is gone, she'll be sad for a while and then move on. Nuff said. I though you were gonna post a rumor about Supes being gay. That would be a big change. BTW, I have not heard any rumors of Supes being gay but I have heard rumros that Singer wants to make Supes into a role model/hero for gays (but that doesn't mean, turning Supes gay.)
There's a lot of possibilities on who the baddie for Spidey 3 will be. Spidey 2 layed the ground work for making Harry the next Goblin at least. I predict either Harry/Goblin or Venom. And they could make anyone into Venom but JJJ's son or Eddie Brock are of course good candidates.
Bored? "160"
[this message was edited by Luisinan on Thu 17 Mar 16:15] |
| DarkZero 1164th Post
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| "Re(4):Re(10):Street Fighter Manga and other s" , posted Thu 17 Mar 16:39
quote:
There's a lot of possibilities on who the baddie for Spidey 3 will be. Spidey 2 layed the ground work for making Harry the next Goblin at least. I predict either Harry/Goblin or Venom. And they could make anyone into Venom but JJJ's son or Eddie Brock are of course good candidates.
They're flinging so much BS around about Spider-Man 3 that you can't tell which way it's gonna go. On the one hand, we have the Harry Osborn Green Goblin and possibly The Lizard or Man-Wolf, because their alter egos all appear in Spider-Man 2. On the other hand, we have Sam Raimi pretty much confirming that Venom is in the movie, and Rob Tapert seeming pretty interested in the fan reaction to the possibility of Venom. And then we have the fact that they might be making four movies instead of three, which leaves the possibibility of one Spider-Man movie having the Green Goblin and the other having Venom, because they're both worth an entire movie.
And there's pretty much the same problem with the Superman movie. For the most part, there's been a Superman movie in production for the last ten years or so, starting with the Nicolas Cage movie. Since then, we've had tons of different scripts with tons of different angles, and tons of different directors spewing all sorts of different ideas. Just in the last year we've had
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
- A script for the first part of a Superman trilogy where Krypton never blew up, Superman fights dozens of Kryptonians with aerial super-kung-fu on Earth, and FEDERAL AGENT Lex Luthor reveals in the finale that he is, in fact, a Kryptonian spy, and then proceeds to engage Superman in more aerial super-kung-fu.
- The current director and producers putting forth the idea that the new movie will somehow be a sequel to the Christopher Reeve movies, taking their continuity into account.
- Hungrywolf's potential (but unlikely) spoilers.
End of Spoiler
The whole thing is just nuts, so we have no idea what the final product will be. Sadly, there's a good chance that it will suck. Hopefully not, though.
quote:
Angel (Warren) never got any characterization in the x-books. He was always the nice millionaire and thats it. He never got developed into a 'playboy'. He got a little tortured in X-Factor by Cameron Hodges manipulations but that was it. Boring ass character.
I'd say that getting turned into a homicidal death machine that can rip through armies of his best friend's soldiers before eventually decapitating him for killing his girlfriend, and then subsequently going on a mad quest to kill the man who turned him into said death machine, would count as characterization. That's just me, though.
I do agree, however, that Angel was a boring-ass character. If they're not going to twist him around and turn him into Archangel in the same movie that they introduce him, then there's no point. Same with Beast, really. We've already done the whole "Woe is me, I'm blue and ugly" deal with Nightcrawler in X-Men 2, so there's no reason to devote more screen time to it.
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| Dr Baghead 3400th Post
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| "Re(1):Afraid for Comic movies" , posted Fri 18 Mar 06:22
quote:
I've read a couple of possible rumors at superherohype.com about the upcoming movies of Superman and X-men 3 that worry me about both movies. The X-men 3 rumor is that Beast, Gambit, and Angel will be in X-men 3. While I'm not against those characters, they say that Angel will possibly be a girl. If it's the actualy girl who used that name in the Morrison run, then I wouldn't be that upset, but if they freakin' change Warren's sex I will refuse to see X-men 3 in theaters and possible at all.
You're such a fanboy, Wolf... hasn't it already been made clear the movies aren't set in the comicbook world? I mean, the first movie doesn't have Ice Man, Beast, or Angel on the team! So right there you should now this is not the comics.
So what if the movie Angel is a girl? It doesn't change the comics at all (well actually it's Marvel so it probably will... sorry)
In fact, if it's true Halle Berry is leaving the cast and Jean Grey (yeah, I can't spell "Faunka whatever") will probably have a reduced role in the movie unless it starts with a very silly "SURPRISE! I'm not dead!" moument then it's probably in the best interest of the studio to introduce an adult female cast member.
Sure it would upset the comic's fans, but really WHAT THE HELL DOESN'T UPSET COMIC FANS?! Oh the X-Men aren't wearing their comic costumes! uhhh they gave Spider-man organic web-shooters! ugh Kingpin's not black! ew Affleck is Daredevil! ork they gave Rouge a first name! oh they changed Punisher's origins! eh Elektra isn't greek or wearing red! urk the Hulk looks like Shrek! orc Ra's Al Ghoul is Japanese...
if you try and make comic fans happy you get garbage like JLU... no story just a bunch of cameos so fans can be all "OH SNAP! It's Booster Gold!"
I think it'd be cool if Angel's female. And hey since Ice Man's probably out of the movie (since FOX made some dumbass rule 'if you talk to Singer about being in Superman, you're out of X3' it seems he's not coming back) at least we might finally get to see Gambit and Rogue together.
yeah it's not funny
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| DarkZero 1166th Post
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| "Re(2):Afraid for Comic movies" , posted Fri 18 Mar 12:15
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Sure it would upset the comic's fans, but really WHAT THE HELL DOESN'T UPSET COMIC FANS?! Oh the X-Men aren't wearing their comic costumes! uhhh they gave Spider-man organic web-shooters! ugh Kingpin's not black! ew Affleck is Daredevil! ork they gave Rouge a first name! oh they changed Punisher's origins! eh Elektra isn't greek or wearing red! urk the Hulk looks like Shrek! orc Ra's Al Ghoul is Japanese...
The fact that the Kingpin was white in the comics was pretty significant, because he was supposed to be "The Man". The embodiment of the nation's rich and powerful white guys who are not only immune to all prosecution or media criticism, but are instead hailed as "wealthy philanthropists" who "give back to the community". Making him a blatantly evil black man who everyone knows is a mobster is like making the Black Panther a white Canadian guy named Steve. He's a totally different, original character that happens to have a comic book character's name.
And that's what makes the decision to make Angel a woman so annoying. There are, what, thirty-five years of X-Men comics to draw on now? If you need a strong, adult woman, how about Psylocke? White Queen? Sage? Shadowcat? Polaris? But no, it's a Hollywood movie, so let's just take a name, create a totally original character out of it, and then shove it into rich source material. "Dozens of possible female characters aren't enough, so let's make our own!"
It's one thing to make changes, but with hundreds of comics worth of source material, I don't really see a reason to add something that's completely new. The people complaining that Ra's Al Ghoul's race was change or Elektra's wearing the wrong color are nuts, but I certainly see a problem when a character is completely gutted and filled in with some Hollywood hack's new material.
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| Sano 1601th Post
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| "Re(3):Afraid for Comic movies" , posted Fri 18 Mar 12:43:
Kingpin being black doesn't bother me. Nick Fury might be played by Samuel Jackson in the upcoming movie since Ultimate Nick Fury is based on Samuel Jackson. Denzel Washington is playing Julius Ceaser on Broadway. These are interesting times.
I was more troubled when Kingpin was black on the Spider-Man cartoon because they made his favorite food McDonalds Hamburgers and fries! What kind of racist crap is that? They'd never show white Kingpin eating at Mickey Dees...
In the end for the movies, all of these characters are American, the race switcheroo doesn't bug me. As Hollywood becomes more deversified so should the roles.
BUT Ra's Al Ghoul in the comic is not Japanese, Asian or anything like that. On top of that, he has hair! HAVE YOU SEEN WATANABE'S COSTUME? THE GUY IS STILL BALD! HE AIN'T PLAYING MR. FREEZE!!! WB just wanted to tack on another big name to their flick - the entire cast is big names for parts that are beneath them. Morgan Freeman as Lucious Fox? Michael Caine as Alfred? All this money should go into special effects. Why do you need Academy Award winning (well, now Morgan has an award) actors playing bit parts? As for Ra's, instead of getting someone with a similar background to that of Ra's Al Ghoul since oh... I dunno... HIS NAME IS RA'S AL GHOUL or at least someone who remotely looks like the guy it's just the WB going "Hey, Watanabe's made lots of Japanese movies and was in the last Samurai with Tom Cruise. He's a big name now. Let's throw him in!"
So in the end, female Angel doesn't bother me nor organic webshooters or non X-Men costumes or anything else although I can sympathize with those that these things bug them since these are characters we grew up on, we want to see them as accurate as possible and when they make seemingly unnecesary changes it's gonna raise a few eyebrows. But back to my own gripe, Japanese Ra's Al Ghoul is LAME! Ra's Al Ghoul is my favorite Batman villain and I want to see him done right. Sue me. Call me insane if you want too! I think I've proven that I am quite batty in my tenure at mmcafe anyways. I'm sure none of you love Ra's the way I do so you won't get it, picture Louie Anderson playing Joker and then you'll get how I feel. Watanbe looks NOTHING like Ra's. At least the black Kingpin's real life height was close to the comic book one's.
For another perspective, here's a conversation I had with a Japanese woman at work. Let's call her... Racer X since I don't like giving out names. This is an actual conversation I had, no lie.
SANO: Ken Watanabe from the last Samurai is playing Ra's Al Ghoul in the new Batman Movie.
RACER X: Oh really! I love his movies! He's a great actor!
SANO: But Ra's Al Ghoul is not Japanese!
RACER X: So what? It shows that America is paying more attention to Japanese cinema. This is really great!
SANO: ...BUT RA'S AL GHOUL IS NOT JAPANESE!!! (not yelling, just in a harsher tone.)
RACER X: (And these are her actual words to me) Oh, pipe down Sano fanboy! Don't be such a geek man!
(What can I say, everybody knows about my Sagara Sanosuke fandom, LOL!)
Ryu and Chun-Li forever!
[this message was edited by Sano on Fri 18 Mar 15:56] |
| Dr Baghead 3401th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Afraid for Comic movies" , posted Fri 18 Mar 13:07
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BUT Ra's Al Ghoul in the comic is not Japanese, Asian or anything like that. On top of that, he has hair! HAVE YOU SEEN WATANABE'S COSTUME? THE GUY IS STILL BALD! HE AIN'T PLAYING MR. FREEZE!!! WB just wanted to tack on another big name to their flick - the entire cast is big names for parts that are beneath them. Morgan Freeman as Lucious Fox? Michael Caine as Alfred? All this money should go into special effects. Why do you need Academy Award winning (well, now Morgan has an award) actors playing bit parts? As for Ra's, instead of getting someone with a similar background to that of Ra's Al Ghoul since oh... I dunno... HIS NAME IS RA'S AL GHOUL or at least someone who remotely looks like the guy it's just the WB going "Hey, Watanabe's made lots of Japanese movies and was in the last Samurai with Tom Cruise. He's a big name now. Let's throw him in!"
Yeah, I've seen the costume, it's really really sad... but first a preample!
The IDEA of Watanabe as Ra's is not bad, Ra's name is Arabic yes, but his race is unknown... and since it could be assumed a Ra's of Japanese decent would still have a league of assassins, a lazarius pit, a keen intellic, and made skills with a sword there's in theory no problem with the change on a basic level. Watanabe's an actor, give him the comic costume and he should be able to play as very good version of Ra's
The EXECUTION of the idea however is HORRIBLE... even on the most basic level, Ra's color in the comics/cartoons: Green, the man wears a lot of green! Green capes, green suits, green paints, green... shouldn't be too hard to but Watanabe in a green pair of slacks and call it a day would it?! No, he's wearing RED... he's bald, has a Pai Mei mustache, and he's in Red robes.
Not only did they decide to ignore the fact Ra's in the comic is based around Arabic culture, they ignored the fact Watanabe is Japanese and based this Ra's around a Shaolin Monk!
I'm not going to boycott the movie or anything crazy because of this, but it's still a really stupid idea.
yeah it's not funny
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| Hungrywolf 3007th Post
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| "Re(4):Re(10):Street Fighter Manga and other s" , posted Fri 18 Mar 13:40
quote:
I've read a couple of possible rumors at superherohype.com about the upcoming movies of Superman and X-men 3 that worry me about both movies. The X-men 3 rumor is that Beast, Gambit, and Angel will be in X-men 3. While I'm not against those characters, they say that Angel will possibly be a girl. If it's the actualy girl who used that name in the Morrison run, then I wouldn't be that upset, but if they freakin' change Warren's sex I will refuse to see X-men 3 in theaters and possible at all. The other rumor about the Superman movie is that while Being as these aren't truely confirmed as fact yet though I'll wait to pass judgement when I know more facts.
My gut reaction was HW is acting like a fanboy. After a minute of further consideration, I still think your acting like a fanboy. The rumors you are talking about are minor and insignificant IMO. Its like the big fuss made about Spidey's organic web shooters. Its a dumb minor change, who cares.
Angel (Warren) never got any characterization in the x-books. He was always the nice millionaire and thats it. He never got developed into a 'playboy'. He got a little tortured in X-Factor by Cameron Hodges manipulations but that was it. Boring ass character. If they make him into a girl, a robot, a talking dog-- big improvement IMO. Warren just never got developed. Thats Marvel and the writers fault. Thinking the X3 will be trash because of this change, is silly IMO. If Warren died, would anyone care? Yes, but only because he was an original X-Man. But other then that, no. People were sad when Peter (Colossus) died, but he got a lot more character development then Warren ever did.
About Lois. Yeah, so she finds a new man. Wow. OMG. She's a whore and she's evil. No. she's not. She probably thought Supes was never gonna come back. So what, she was just gonna mope around the rest of her life? That would be a far worse characterization of Lois. Lois is not a loser, she doesn't mope for anyone. If she thinks Supes is gone, she'll be sad for a while and then move on. Nuff said. I though you were gonna post a rumor about Supes being gay. That would be a big change. BTW, I have not heard any rumors of Supes being gay but I have heard rumros that Singer wants to make Supes into a role model/hero for gays (but that doesn't mean, turning Supes gay.)
There's a lot of possibilities on who the baddie for Spidey 3 will be. Spidey 2 layed the ground work for making Harry the next Goblin at least. I predict either Harry/Goblin or Venom. And they could make anyone into Venom but JJJ's son or Eddie Brock are of course good candidates.
I make no claims that I'm not a fanboy when it comes to comics, because I am. I won't deny that. And as I said, they are just rumors, I was just trying to express my concern, I didn't think that I was acting too childish just by expressing concern over rumors that are probably not true. Amd maybe it was wrong of me to say I wouldn't see the movie if Warren's sex was changed, but it is the truth. However, at Superherohype today they say (I usually trust them) it is confirmed that Angel will be male, so that rumor is killed now. They also say he'll be a major character, and they also say Cyclops will have a small role in the movie, not that I was expecting him to have otherwise based on the first and especially the second films. I don't like that he is so underused in the movies, but I still enjoy them.
I don't mind Lois moving on while Superman is away. I am slightly annoyed how similar to Spider-man 2 it seems if Lois is engaged to Marsden's character. Still that wouldn't bother me. Her having a 5 year old child would. But that's me. I am a fanboy, and I'd rather see the story of the new Superman film go somewhere other than where it looks like it's going.
Hungry Like the Wolf
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| Baines
45th Post
Rare Customer
| "Sin City" , posted Fri 18 Mar 14:29
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As for other comic movies out there... what does everyone think of the upcoming Sin City movie? I think it looks good.
So far, I think it looks awful.
That the movie was effectively filmed in front of a green screen is very evident through the commercials, but theaters are a little more forgiving.
Worse though is that the acting looks way too hammy, from line delivery to action shots. Scenes like everyone firing from the roof tops looks like kids playing cops and robbers thrusting their arms and shouting "bang" when they fire. Actually, the whole project is reminding me of the Dick Tracy movie. With worse action. Unless Millar and Tarantino are going for "comedy" instead of "serious," because it is just too over the top...
And I wonder if it is telling that Bruce Willis didn't even mention Sin City when he was on Late Night promoting Hostage. Particularly since it would have tied in with the following guest, who was actually there to promote Sin City.
On another Sin City peeve, Sin City trades are out in time for the movie. Except flipping through a couple of volumes, they are completely black and white. The signature color for each arc is gone entirely. (The yellow of Yellow Bastard, the red of Dame, etc.)
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| DarkZero 1167th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(4):Afraid for Comic movies" , posted Fri 18 Mar 14:38
quote:
Kingpin being black doesn't bother me. Nick Fury might be played by Samuel Jackson in the upcoming movie since Ultimate Nick Fury is based on Samuel Jackson. Denzel Washington is playing Julius Ceaser on Broadway. These are interesting times.
I think you missed my point, though. The problem wasn't that they changed Kingpin's race, it's that his race was a big part of his character. That's why I made the Black Panther analogy. Black Panther is an African superhero who ruled over a fictional African super-society. Changing his race isn't exactly, to borrow the video game term, a palette swap. It changes his character, just like it changes Kingpin's character, because his entire character is based on the stereotype of rich, corrupt white men.
Nick Fury's a badass soldier, not a white badass soldier, so it doesn't matter if they change his race. Some characters, however -- Kingpin, Black Panther, Sunfire, Storm (actually, a Hell of a lot of the New X-Men from Giant-Sized X-Men #1) -- have a large part of their character based on their race. Making Cyclops black or Wolverine a Mexican wouldn't be the same as making Sunfire something other than Japanese.
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However, at Superherohype today they say (I usually trust them) it is confirmed that Angel will be male, so that rumor is killed now. They also say he'll be a major character, and they also say Cyclops will have a small role in the movie, not that I was expecting him to have otherwise based on the first and especially the second films. I don't like that he is so underused in the movies, but I still enjoy them.
But again, keep in mind that this means that every single X-Men movie has been proceeded by news that either Beast, Angel, or Gambit would be in the movie. So far, it's turned out to be crap on both occasions. Usually for good reasons.
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| Baines
47th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(5):Afraid for Comic movies" , posted Fri 18 Mar 16:09:
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But again, keep in mind that this means that every single X-Men movie has been proceeded by news that either Beast, Angel, or Gambit would be in the movie. So far, it's turned out to be crap on both occasions. Usually for good reasons.
And every Spider-man movie has been preceeded by news that Venom would be in the movie. And Spider-Man 2 was preceeded by the idea that there would be two villians (Doc Ock and Lizard).
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Actually, as I had said before, I hadn't read the comic back in its day, so I had recently gotten one of the new releases, and the colors are still very much there. There was quite a bit of yellow in That Yellow Bastard.
Hrm, the ones I flipped through yesterday at a comics shop had no color at all. I even flipped through them twice, on the off chance that I had somehow missed the admittedly sporadic use.
[this message was edited by Baines on Fri 18 Mar 16:18] |
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"Afraid for Comic movies" , posted Thu 17 Mar 11:59
"Re(1):Afraid for Comic movies" , posted Thu 17 Mar 12:26
"Re(5):Afraid for Comic movies" , posted Fri 18 Mar 05:25
the fight is just beginning..."
