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Sano
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"What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 12:46:post reply

Over at SRK in the Fan Fiction Forums we have a Thread called "The Marvel Q & A - Rebirth" where we talk about what the Marvel characters of MVC2 are up to. A lot of this info comes from Marvel Encyclopedia Books, and it's very hard to track all of these characters even for us since there's hundreds and hundreds of comics to sift through, so if there's anything anyone can add or correct, please do. Special thanks to my buds at SRK, The Damned, Red Exodus, Testament X. Nemesis00 and Sagatryu for lots of help. Anyway, here we go.

1. Cable - Back to leading X-Force. During a struggle with a crazy religous sect that wanted everyone to come together under one race and one religion (Making each of it's members bald and turning their skin blue) Cable and Deadpool combined into one big goop and then seperated. As a result of this, Deadpool will now appear next to Cable whenever he bodyslides so their connection has not been severed 100%. AKAIK, I stopped reading Cable and Deadpool...

2. Marrow - Last I saw her she was a member of Weapon X, and she had purple skin. Weapon X scientists slowed her disfigurement and gave her full control of her powers.

3. Cyclops - After the death of Jean Grey at the hands of a Magneto imposter, Cyclops wished to disband the school. 100 plus years later Jean Grey came back to life in an apocalyptic future that was the result of Cyke closing down the school. To avoid this future, Jean used her powers to make Cyclops in our time fall in love with White Queen to give him hope to start the school again. In our time, the Phoenix force has come back from outer space and has ressurected Jean's corpse. Because Jean was spotted wearing the Dark Phoenix outfit and she has killed billions of lives in the past as Dark Phoenix, Cyclops wants to hunt her down and kill her.

4. Wolverine - Decapitated a Magneto imposter that killed Jean Grey. Currently Hydra teamed with the Hand has found a way to control him to do their evil bidding, which involves a plot in killing Super Heroes and bringing them back to life as evil (this is what they did to Wolverine BTW). At some point I suppose after this storyline, Wolverine's supposed to become an Avenger but still remain an X-Man.

5. Iceman - Has gone through a secondary mutation. He can no longer revert to human form and is Ice 24/7.

6. Juggernaut - For a while there, it looked like he was betraying the X-Men to join up with the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, but PSYKE! He's still an X-Men through and through. He went missing in what seems to be another dimension so his wherabouts are unknown.

7. Hulk - On the run from the authorities. Someone named Dr. Blue via E-Mails and such was helping him in self hypnosis to control his transformation. Upon meeting Mr. Blue, it turned out to be his wife Betty Brant who he thought was killed by Abomination! But Hulk is still alone and on the run.

8. Magneto - Still alive, survived the attack on Genosha. The world thought he was killed in New York, but that was an imposter. Scarlet Witch's powers went nuts, and Magneto came to claim her, so at least The Avengers and the reserve Avengers know he's alive. He's working with Professor X in Genosha.

9. Spider-Man - Gwen Stacy had two kids with Norman Osborne before she died. Since the original Green Goblin was their father, their offspring - a boy and a girl were mutants that aged too fast and they both had super stregnth. Appearing as if they were twenty plus years old they attacked Spider-Man believing he was their father and he killed their mother Gwen. Spider-Man told them the truth, the girl accepted it but not the boy. The boy lost all of his memories and Spidey nor his sister know where he is.

An insect lady attempted to mutate Spidey into a big Spider. It didn't take, but as a result of this Spidey gained the ability to shoot webs without webshooters like the movies. He can hear the thoughts of insects as well, which he finds amusing because Spiders are not insects, they are arachnids, LOL! He just became an Avenger.

10. Captain America - At some point his secret identity became known to the world. After the ramifications of "Avengeres Dissasemble" AKA Scarlet Witch loosing her powers and systematically destroying the Avengers resulting in the deaths of Vision, Hawkeye and Antman (Not Pym, the last Antman), Cap has now picked up the pieces to start a new Avengers team.

11. Shuma Gorath - Special thanks to Red Exodus and Testament X of SRK for this. To stop Shuma Gorath from taking over the world, Dr. Strange had to become Shuma Gorath and then kill Shuma Gorath by piercing himself with one of his tentacles. The leading theory is that Shuma Gorath is not dead, but his energy escaped to his Home Dimension and he can't get back here, but is plotting to do so.

Shuma Gorath who is a God comes from Marvel's Conan the Barbarian comic books. He was adopted into Marvel comics, even though the Gods in Marvel and the Gods in Conan work differently, but nothing to contradictory, and Marvel no longer has the rights to Conan the Barbarian so books like Earth X can't reference their Gods for the most part. Shuma Gorath has less than half a dozen appearances in comic books. He had abso-freakning-lutely nothing to so with the Infinity Gauntlet Saga, wich the first Capcom game he appeared revolved around, "Marvel Super Heroes."
(Neither did Blackheart, but at least Blackheart's father Mephisto did.) Capcom really pulled Shuma Gorath out of obscurity. He currently appears in no Marvel Encyclopedias with a bio or a power rating, but The Book of the Dead does mention him killing The Ancient-One, probably the biggest thing he's done in Marvel. And he's not himself in the Book of the Dead so chances are he's alive praying Starcynski remembers him and writes him in the new Dr. Strange comic...

12. Doctor Doom - Spider-Man saved his life at a NYC Airport against Latverian enemies. Doom said he owned Spider-Man a debt of gratitude. Spidey then insulted Doom, so Doom decided to repay his debt by not killing Spidey on the spot!


Mr. Fantastic created a prison for Doom that was impossible for him to escape from. He swithed bodies with Thing for a little while to escape, but he got tossed back behind bars. Doctor Doom is dead now, I'm not exactly sure how he died this time but I'm willing to bet money he'll be back when the FF movie is in theaters...

13. Venom - Special thanks to Nemesis00 of SRK! An independent outfit in the Arctic recovered a fragment of Venom's severed tongue. They cloned Venom with this. Soon Eddie Brock's symbiote and the clone combined and where about to give birth to the first symbiote born of two symbiotes instead of one, and this baby was supposed to be like the antichrist, with the power to kill everyone on planet earth.

It was revealed that the symbiotes absorb adrenaline, that's why they need human hosts and that's why the symbiote always wanted to recombine with Spidey because of his powers he has enough adrenaline to sustain the suit. Because of years of draining Eddie Brock's adrenaline, he became weak and was dying of cancer. Spidey tricked the symbiote to recombine with Brock and that saved his life but cost the death of the symbiote's apocalptic child.

Eddie Brock auctioned of the suit for millions of dollars and contrubuted his winnings to charity. He then slit his wrists, and was left in the hospital under critical condition. Some Mafia thug bought the suit at the auction and gave it to his son who was a dork. The symbiote rejected this looser, got away from him when he was high up in the air causing the mort to fall to his death. The symbiote is on the run and my money is on it returning to Eddie Brock.

- To be continued.





[this message was edited by Sano on Wed 9 Feb 20:00]

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Sano
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"Re(1):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 13:44post reply

Continuing -

14. Gambit - He was blind for a while, but Sage gave him back his sight. He may be developing a secondary mutation where he can see glimpses of the future.

15. Psylocke - Has come back from the dead, reappearing in the same exact spot Vargas killed her. No one knows how or why, but she doesn't have the Crimson Dawn symbol anymore.

16. Storm - Looks like she and Woverine are getting closer, going on a maybe casual date, exchanging kisses, hard to tell if this is friendly or other. Nightcrawler is getting jealous, even though he also has the hots for Rachel Summers and has made out with her! Nightcrawler's come a long way from being a priest...

17. Colossus - He's alive. his corpse was found and revived. The body that was cremated was a copy placed after the switch.

18. Spiral - Haven't seen hir in a long time but chances are she's stell dealing with the Hell Mojoworld is now. Over there they made X-Baby versions of the Age of Apocalypse Villains. While they looked cute, they vicously took over the world. Dazzler escaped and she's in our world now, still no word on Longshot.

19. Silver Samurai - Quote from the Marvel Universe Wolverine 2004 book because I'm to lazy to paraphrase all of this -

"Clan Yoshida was wrested from him by the Mongolian Kaishek crime family, and he allied with Wolverine to defeat them. The disgrace of losing leadership was too great for Harada(Silver Samurai's real name is Keniuchio Harada), and he returned to mercenary life. Employed by Hydra once more, he was dispatched to Iraq to battle the female ninja Elektra and seemingly slain. Whether he survived is not known."

20. Omega Red - He was involved in a plot with Lady Deathstrike and Sabretooth to bring down Wolverine's loved ones. In the end, Sabretooth betrayed Omega Red and Lady Deathstrike by ramming their heads together 3 stooges style as he went to try to kill Wolverine on his own!

21. Sentinel - There was a comic where a kid was controlling a Sentinel AKA Iron Giant. The last big thing the Sentinels did was destroy Genosha. Except of course for the 'Chicken Sentinels' put in the X-Men's bloodstream by Cassandra Nova, but should we count them? THEY ARE CALLED CHICKEN SENTINELS!!! They is not cool... The Magneto imposter manipulated the Chicken Sentinels in Prof. X's body so Chuck could walk for a while, but what he gaveth he taketh away, as Prof. is in the wheelchair again.

22. Iron Man - Has revealed his secret identity to the world and was appointed the U.S. Secretary of Defense. While addressing the UN, it seemed like he was drunk as he trashed the Latverian Representative (That could of been Doctor Doom under disguise since the rep didn't talk or change his angry expression..) but it turns out he wasn't drunk, that was Scarlet Witch's Hex Powers being out of control hence this being another ramification of "Avengers Dissasembled." Anyway, Iron Man got fired. After this fiasco, the world refuses to believe that Tony Stark is this embarassment known as Iron Man so his identity is secret once again, LOL!

He has given three floors of his new Stark Tower building to the New Avengers, and at least Spider-Man is supposed to move into the building with Aunt May and Mary Jane. Will Wolvie try to put the moves on Mary Jane since he likes redheads? Don't know about that but you know what we all want to see. The Jarvis and Aunt May hook up!!!

Avengers writer Bendis said he will update Iron Man's suit saying something along the lines of, "My Cell Phone can take pictures and this guy is still firing Repulsor Rays!"

23. Blackheart - Quoting the Marvel Encyclopedia Book regarding Marvel Knights:

"Blackheart later resurfaced as a member of Selene's revamped Hellfire Club. The Fantastic Four, aided by Hellstorm and Margali Szardos, managed to defeat Blackheart and trap him in the Club's basement. It is safe to assume that Blackheart will return to menace mankind again."

24. Thanos - Death's made him immortal so he can't die and will never embrace Death not even when he dies, ouch! The rest is from one of the Marvel Encyclopedias, I forget which one -

"Thanos now considers himself to be beyond good and evil, and has spent most of his time since loing the guantlet questing for knowledge; he has even assisted Earth's heroes against Magus, Goddess, Thanosi (Nihilistic Thanos hybrids of his own creation), and Ankhenatan. However, he still longs to regain Death's favor, despite her disregard of him."

BTW, a few years back when Deadpool was temporarily dead for a while, he was having sex left and right with Death! So she likes Deadpool not Thanos, double ouch!

25. Rogue - Lost her powers for a while but Sage helped her get them back. However, she no longer has Ms. Marvel's powers of flight, super strength and invulnerability. She only has her absorption powers (think Rogue from the X-Men Movies) but she's supposed to get her Ms. Marvel powers back soon.

26. Sabretooth - Last spotted working for the New Brotherhood of evil Mutants under their new leader Exodus. Why? He's getting paid of course!

Funny tidbit - A while back Wolverine and Sabretooth were at a bar but were hanging out and didn't want to scrap. They both took leaks in stalls standing next to each other. Wolverine peeped over to look at Sabretooth's thingy and revealed to us that Wolverine has a bigger schlong, LOL!

27. War Machine - Last I heard of him he was working for SHIELD. He's retired from being a Super Heroe so chances are he's not with SHIELD anymore.





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"Re(2):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 16:41post reply

Deadpool's the best thing about the Marvel Universe...





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"Re(3):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 16:52post reply

Scorpion appearantly has the Venom suit now.

Spiral is supposed to show up in the Shatterstar mini





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"Re(4):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 18:08post reply

Thank you !





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"Re(4):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 19:53:post reply

quote:
Scorpion appearantly has the Venom suit now.

Spiral is supposed to show up in the Shatterstar mini



Thanks.

Scorpion, really? Wow...

I hope Liefeld's not drawing that Shatterstar mini. Oh well, if Spiral's in it maybe I'll check it out.





[this message was edited by Sano on Wed 9 Feb 19:58]

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"Re(5):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 19:55post reply

quote:
Thank you !



Your welcome! ^_^





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"Re(2):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 21:48post reply

quote:
15. Psylocke - Has come back from the dead, reappearing in the same exact spot Vargas killed her. No one knows how or why, but she doesn't have the Crimson Dawn symbol anymore.


YAY!!!
For the first time ever, I'm happy that Marvel still never keeps the dead people dead for good!!





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"Re(3):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 22:11post reply

wow. never knew marvel's story became this confusing.





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"Re(5):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 22:54post reply

quote:
Thank you !



What, really?





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"Re(1):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 23:11post reply

Wow... it's like a soap opera. This super hero is sleeping with this one and this person over here is dead, oops, they're not dead anymore. It's all very funny in my opinion, and yet I read all of the post and was glad to know that some of these characters are still kicking around. A very good read, thank you for sharing.






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"Re(1):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 9 Feb 23:51post reply

Also Iceman has become a homophobiac





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"Re(2):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Thu 10 Feb 00:19post reply

quote:
Also Iceman has become a homophobiac



I assume this is all normal continuity and not Ultimate Continuity.





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"Re(6):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Thu 10 Feb 01:08post reply

quote:
What, really?


Why is it surprising ?
It's even more entertaining when you know what you're making fun of.





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"Re(3):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Thu 10 Feb 01:59post reply

quote:



I assume this is all normal continuity and not Ultimate Continuity.



Yeah, this is all normal continuity.





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"Re(4):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Thu 10 Feb 03:30post reply

Wolverine and Sabretooth hanging out and comparing penis sizes? WTF? No wonder I haven't read Marvel in years lol.

I did pick up a "What If" comic the other day though where Dr. Doom goes up into space instead of Ben Grimm and becomes the Thing. Was pretty interesting.





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"Re(5):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Thu 10 Feb 03:50post reply

quote:
Wolverine and Sabretooth hanging out and comparing penis sizes? WTF? No wonder I haven't read Marvel in years lol.



Oh, they weren't hanging out with each other, Wolverine was with Cyclops. It was one of those 'neutral bars' you hear about in fiction. You know, evil and good Mutants can hang out, no fighting. Wolverine and Sabretooth just met in the bathroom is all, didn't scrap.





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"Re(2):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Thu 10 Feb 04:37post reply

quote:
Funny tidbit - A while back Wolverine and Sabretooth were at a bar but were hanging out and didn't want to scrap. They both took leaks in stalls standing next to each other. Wolverine peeped over to look at Sabretooth's thingy and revealed to us that Wolverine has a bigger schlong, LOL!


Considering most of their fights were essentially about who was more macho I'm glad they finally dropped trou, measured them and settled it once and for all.





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"Re(3):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Thu 10 Feb 07:33post reply

EDIT: Shuma-Gorath first appeared in Marvel Premeire #14 where he encountered Dr. Strange, then in Conan the Barbarian 1 # 260. He was created in 1973.





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"Re(3):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Thu 10 Feb 11:09post reply

quote:
Deadpool's the best thing about the Marvel Universe...



I'm just not a fan of how copied Deadpool is from Deathstroke.

Oh, and Gambit has his sight back again.







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"Re(4):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Thu 10 Feb 13:06post reply

quote:

I'm just not a fan of how copied Deadpool is from Deathstroke.



Deathstroke? Deathstroke the Terminator? Explain.





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"Re(5):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Thu 10 Feb 23:42post reply

quote:

I'm just not a fan of how copied Deadpool is from Deathstroke.


Deathstroke? Deathstroke the Terminator? Explain.



Not sure I get it either. Deathstroke kicks everybody's butt. Deadpool gets his butt kicked a lot. Deadpool cracks jokes and makes pop culture references, Deathstoke does not. They are both masked assasins, but Deadpool is more "evil assasin Spider-Man" with all the jokes he cracks then anybody. Too bad writers make Deadpool sound funnier than Spider-Man... Oh well, Spidey still cracks me up now and then.





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"Re(6):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Fri 11 Feb 00:04post reply

quote:

I'm just not a fan of how copied Deadpool is from Deathstroke.


Deathstroke? Deathstroke the Terminator? Explain.


Not sure I get it either. Deathstroke kicks everybody's butt. Deadpool gets his butt kicked a lot. Deadpool cracks jokes and makes pop culture references, Deathstoke does not. They are both masked assasins, but Deadpool is more "evil assasin Spider-Man" with all the jokes he cracks then anybody. Too bad writers make Deadpool sound funnier than Spider-Man... Oh well, Spidey still cracks me up now and then.


Deathstroke/Terminator is Slade Wilson, a mercenary who heals rapidly from injuries and uses guns and swords strapped to his back in combat.

Deadpool is Wade Wilson, a mercenary who heals rapidly from injuries and uses guns and swords strapped to his back in combat.

When originally created, Deadpool was little more than a Deathstroke knock-off. It wasn't until creators other than Liefield started working on the character that he developed his own personality. It's sort of like how the Punisher started out as a one-off of Mack Bolan, the Executioner.





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"Re(7):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Fri 11 Feb 02:25post reply

quote:

I'm just not a fan of how copied Deadpool is from Deathstroke.


Deathstroke? Deathstroke the Terminator? Explain.


Not sure I get it either. Deathstroke kicks everybody's butt. Deadpool gets his butt kicked a lot. Deadpool cracks jokes and makes pop culture references, Deathstoke does not. They are both masked assasins, but Deadpool is more "evil assasin Spider-Man" with all the jokes he cracks then anybody. Too bad writers make Deadpool sound funnier than Spider-Man... Oh well, Spidey still cracks me up now and then.

Deathstroke/Terminator is Slade Wilson, a mercenary who heals rapidly from injuries and uses guns and swords strapped to his back in combat.

Deadpool is Wade Wilson, a mercenary who heals rapidly from injuries and uses guns and swords strapped to his back in combat.

When originally created, Deadpool was little more than a Deathstroke knock-off. It wasn't until creators other than Liefield started working on the character that he developed his own personality. It's sort of like how the Punisher started out as a one-off of Mack Bolan, the Executioner.



OK thanks. Doesn't seem that they are that much alike anymore though. Except for the names and the healing mercenary bits.





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"Re(8):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Fri 11 Feb 04:25post reply

Well I'm not a huge comics fan, but I just take this thread as a good opportunity to say one thing or two.

First I'm really disapointed to see that the X-men serie, in general have an huge talent to waste good characters.
Spiral is a perfect exemple sheone of the most original (and best design IMO) and you basicaly never saw her. I've always wish to see some art of her done buy some new designer in the "Mikeal turner style"...but nope.

2nd, with all the *%:$%)%:^ time line, is there a way to know which one is the original one??? in the french edition it's close to imposible. (we only have 1/2 of the series).

3rd, is there a end to some series sometimes??
Unlike mangas, comics seeems to be some neverending stories....






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"Re(9):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Fri 11 Feb 05:47:post reply

quote:

2nd, with all the *%:$%)%:^ time line, is there a way to know which one is the original one??? in the french edition it's close to imposible. (we only have 1/2 of the series).

3rd, is there a end to some series sometimes??
Unlike mangas, comics seeems to be some neverending stories....



Second - Most of the time it's pretty obvious which storyline is the original one. Sometimes, Limited Series don't count, but they are 'creator driven' and Marvel gives them a bunch of leeway. Best example is Frank Cho's Shana the She-Devil. It has nothing to do with continuity. And you should be able to tell Ultimate books are outside since Marvel blasts this everywhere.

Third - The only way comic books ever end is if they are canceled. The difference between Manga and Comics, well, there's plus and minuses . On the Manga side, there's certain stories that end too quickly COUGH COUGH RUROUNI KENSHIN and then the creator goes on to do stuff that's not as good - Busou Renkin and that Cowboy crap Watsuki did. On the other hand, the comics never finish but they are constantly showing you alternate futures and endings so you can see how it would or might end. But if you want a series that starts and finishes and will never start again, pick up X-Statix. And just from an American perspective, I actually hate it when Mangas end, and especially when they end and never hook the right characters up - Ranma 1/2! Now I have to imagine Ryoga hooking up with Ukyo! I don't want to have to work %&(*%$&$!!!

I like both US Comics and Manga, for different reasons. US Comics you get color, better anatomy, less goofiness, Manga you get a great use of black and white, long drawn out fights and stories and an ending. Both of them have good stories, but both vary from writer to writer from book to book. Don't get me wrong, endings are good if you do them right. And of course, there are examples on both sides that contradict what I've layed out in this paragraph.





[this message was edited by Sano on Fri 11 Feb 05:54]

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"Re(7):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Fri 11 Feb 10:43post reply

quote:

Deathstroke/Terminator is Slade Wilson, a mercenary who heals rapidly from injuries and uses guns and swords strapped to his back in combat.

Deadpool is Wade Wilson, a mercenary who heals rapidly from injuries and uses guns and swords strapped to his back in combat.

When originally created, Deadpool was little more than a Deathstroke knock-off. It wasn't until creators other than Liefield started working on the character that he developed his own personality. It's sort of like how the Punisher started out as a one-off of Mack Bolan, the Executioner.



I had no idea that Deathstroke's real name was Slade Wilson. Yep, it's pretty obvious to me now. But Deadpool is still freakin' hilarious, so he and his creators still get a pass from me.





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"Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Sat 12 Feb 04:25post reply

quote:

2nd, with all the *%:$%)%:^ time line, is there a way to know which one is the original one??? in the french edition it's close to imposible. (we only have 1/2 of the series).

3rd, is there a end to some series sometimes??
Unlike mangas, comics seeems to be some neverending stories....


Second - Most of the time it's pretty obvious which storyline is the original one. Sometimes, Limited Series don't count, but they are 'creator driven' and Marvel gives them a bunch of leeway. Best example is Frank Cho's Shana the She-Devil. It has nothing to do with continuity. And you should be able to tell Ultimate books are outside since Marvel blasts this everywhere.

Third - The only way comic books ever end is if they are canceled. The difference between Manga and Comics, well, there's plus and minuses . On the Manga side, there's certain stories that end too quickly COUGH COUGH RUROUNI KENSHIN and then the creator goes on to do stuff that's not as good - Busou Renkin and that Cowboy crap Watsuki did. On the other hand, the comics never finish but they are constantly showing you alternate futures and endings so you can see how it would or might end. But if you want a series that starts and finishes and will never start again, pick up X-Statix. And just from an American perspective, I actually hate it when Mangas end, and especially when they end and never hook the right characters up - Ranma 1/2! Now I have to imagine Ryoga hooking up with Ukyo! I don't want to have to work %&(*%$&$!!!

I like both US Comics and Manga, for different reasons. US Comics you get color, better anatomy, less goofiness, Manga you get a great use of black and white, long drawn out fights and stories and an ending. Both of them have good stories, but both vary from writer to writer from book to book. Don't get me wrong, endings are good if you do them right. And of course, there are examples on both sides that contradict what I've layed out in this paragraph.



I agree in most part with you, but it really distrubs be when a serie never have a true end. I never said comics were bad, I like some but those are rare. The short one, where the designer never change...I hate to sarte a nice serie and then a dude that drawing like a goat taking it after...

As for Watsuki both other serie were good IMO.

And you didn't say something on my "spiral" arguments!! ^^






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"Re(2):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Sat 12 Feb 06:36:post reply

Um, do you want me to talk about Spiral? She's been drawn by Arthur Adams and Jim Lee, who both own Michael Turner! Well, okay, the way Arthur Adams used to draw... Besides, Turner works for DC. So unless Spiral appears in a crossover, forget it. Just being Evil Sano, heh, heh. Spiral in a 'Turner' style has kind of been done when Jim Lee drew her, and like I said, Jim Lee > Turner.

As for using her, she's kind of highly connected to Mojo World, it's kind of hard to stick her into a story unless you want to do a Mojo World arc, and the Mojo stuff has nothing to do with the "Humans hate Mutants" stuff the books seem to focus all of their attention on. But, with Psylocke back maybe their rivalry will pick up again. Or if they plan on bringing The Reavers back maybe Spiral could fire up the Body Shoppe again. Don't bet on it, Marvel's not really looking that far in the past nowadays. I'll just hope for good things in the Shatterstar mini for now, and some GOOD art and not the crappy art that plagues Limited Series books....





[this message was edited by Sano on Sat 12 Feb 06:39]

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"Re(3):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Sun 13 Feb 04:24post reply

Well there was a little misunderstood here...
the "spiral syndrome" is for me the fact that they forget or don't use old but really Nice/rare characters....

quote:
Um, do you want me to talk about Spiral? She's been drawn by Arthur Adams and Jim Lee, who both own Michael Turner! Well, okay, the way Arthur Adams used to draw... Besides, Turner works for DC. So unless Spiral appears in a crossover, forget it. Just being Evil Sano, heh, heh. Spiral in a 'Turner' style has kind of been done when Jim Lee drew her, and like I said, Jim Lee > Turner.


Well I've never dreamed about a Spiral made by turner, (well it would be good) but done in the same serious and color style.
Now you seems to have some Spiral art, would you like to share????

quote:

As for using her, she's kind of highly connected to Mojo World, it's kind of hard to stick her into a story unless you want to do a Mojo World arc, and the Mojo stuff has nothing to do with the "Humans hate Mutants" stuff the books seem to focus all of their attention on. But, with Psylocke back maybe their rivalry will pick up again. Or if they plan on bringing The Reavers back maybe Spiral could fire up the Body Shoppe again. Don't bet on it, Marvel's not really looking that far in the past nowadays. I'll just hope for good things in the Shatterstar mini for now, and some GOOD art and not the crappy art that plagues Limited Series books....


that's the problem, they won't use her (and other characters) anymore, what a waste...
As for the shatterstar mini, I don't know what it is, can you tell me more??






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"Re(4):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Sun 13 Feb 05:05post reply

URK! Too busy keeping track of all the stuff I'm supposed to scan for people, well, I'm gonna try to get my scanner today, then we'll see. Sadly this request for Spiral stuff is at the bottom of my list...

I have no info on the Shatterstar mini, I just found out about it since it was mentioned on this thread by E5150.





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"Re(5):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Mon 14 Feb 02:10post reply

quote:
URK! Too busy keeping track of all the stuff I'm supposed to scan for people, well, I'm gonna try to get my scanner today, then we'll see. Sadly this request for Spiral stuff is at the bottom of my list...


What!! After all we have done together!!!
After a so long frienship!!
You have no heart......Mhwuwawawaw...
Sorry! ^^
quote:

I have no info on the Shatterstar mini, I just found out about it since it was mentioned on this thread by E5150.


Ok, I see...






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"Re(6):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Mon 14 Feb 10:11:post reply

quote:

What!! After all we have done together!!!
After a so long frienship!!
You have no heart......Mhwuwawawaw...
Sorry! ^^




Heart is one thing. Searching through 15 large long boxes and eight small boxes of comic books for Spiral artwork is a different matter entirely! Um, give me about 2 weeks or so (just got my scanner! Now to see if it works) and I'll see what I can dig up? Not sure it will meet your Turner expectations since we all have different tastes in artists, though... I defintly have Arthur Adams, I thought Jim Lee drew her for his 90s X-Men card collection but I was mistaken, I THINK he drew her in the poster section of X-Men 1. I have Kubert's drawings of her, those are really good.





[this message was edited by Sano on Mon 14 Feb 10:12]

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"Re(5):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Mon 14 Feb 16:42post reply

quote:
URK! Too busy keeping track of all the stuff I'm supposed to scan for people, well, I'm gonna try to get my scanner today, then we'll see. Sadly this request for Spiral stuff is at the bottom of my list...

I have no info on the Shatterstar mini, I just found out about it since it was mentioned on this thread by E5150.



Well, check marvel.com
She's also in the current Ultimate X-men storyarc





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"Re(9):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Mon 14 Feb 18:30post reply

quote:
First I'm really disapointed to see that the X-men serie, in general have an huge talent to waste good characters.
Spiral is a perfect exemple sheone of the most original (and best design IMO) and you basicaly never saw her.


Spiral, being Mojoverse, doesn't really fit well with most series. And there are tons of characters, with new ones constantly being made, so even major figures occasionally go into comics limbo.

What bugs me more is when writers fixate on certain characters and use them too much. Like Claremont putting Viper everywhere rather than using someone else.

quote:
2nd, with all the *%:$%)%:^ time line, is there a way to know which one is the original one??? in the french edition it's close to imposible. (we only have 1/2 of the series).


Best you can do is go to a comics forum or group and ask. For X-Men in particular, you can try grabbing the X-Men FAQ from rec.arts.comics.marvel.xbooks, though it more addresses specifics rather than giving a straight continuity. (Google Groups/Deja News is an easy enough way to find it.)

For timelines specifically, alternate futures don't matter.

quote:
3rd, is there a end to some series sometimes??
Unlike mangas, comics seeems to be some neverending stories....


There are manga that are fairly neverending, at least within the run of one creator. Is Five Star Stories still going? Berserk probably won't end until the creator dies.

Neil Gaiman always intended Sandman to be a limited run, and DC promised to not bring back Morpheus (as Gaiman made Daniel the new lord of dreams at the end). These days comics are in a bad enough situation that writers can even plan for quick cancellations. X-Statix went out pretty well. DC's Transmetropolitan ran its course. The last completed run of Starman was creator specific and ended with him, as well.

In general though, the universe continues. New writers are brought in, and even cancelled series come back in the future in time to keep the name in use. The prospect of money keeps characters going rather than retiring, and brings them back when they do retire (re: get cancelled).

Your fixed length stories are your limited series. Though they suffer from meaning absolutely nothing, as pretty much none are ever allowed lasting impact on characters. These days Marvel even has a new trick, the retroactive miniseries. When an unlimited series book debuts to low enough numbers, it gets changed to a miniseries the length of the first arc. (Like the recent Jubilee. Worse than even a regular limited series as the first arcs are written under the belief of there being more to follow.)





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"Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Mon 14 Feb 19:33post reply

quote:
First I'm really disapointed to see that the X-men serie, in general have an huge talent to waste good characters.
Spiral is a perfect exemple sheone of the most original (and best design IMO) and you basicaly never saw her.

Spiral, being Mojoverse, doesn't really fit well with most series. And there are tons of characters, with new ones constantly being made, so even major figures occasionally go into comics limbo.



I think the reason you don't see a lot of Spiral is because she's directly tied to the Mojoverse, and to a lot of Marvel writers, "Mojoverse" is a euphemism for something you do on a toilet. The name of the Mojoverse arc of Exiles from two years ago is actually called, even on the front covers, "SO LAME!". It's a good couple of issues, but it's clear that the writer shares the sentiment that I think a lot of fans have, which is that Mojo, Longshot, Dazzler, and all of the associated characters were just one long, unhappy memory of "the good old days". It was clear that whoever wrote it hated Longshot in particular, but you got the feeling that they really had no question in their minds that their overall disdain for the Mojoverse would be shared by all of their readers.





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"Re(2):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is " , posted Mon 14 Feb 19:38post reply

quote:
First I'm really disapointed to see that the X-men serie, in general have an huge talent to waste good characters.
Spiral is a perfect exemple sheone of the most original (and best design IMO) and you basicaly never saw her.

Spiral, being Mojoverse, doesn't really fit well with most series. And there are tons of characters, with new ones constantly being made, so even major figures occasionally go into comics limbo.


I think the reason you don't see a lot of Spiral is because she's directly tied to the Mojoverse, and to a lot of Marvel writers, "Mojoverse" is a euphemism for something you do on a toilet. The name of the Mojoverse arc of Exiles from two years ago is actually called, even on the front covers, "SO LAME!". It's a good couple of issues, but it's clear that the writer shares the sentiment that I think a lot of fans have, which is that Mojo, Longshot, Dazzler, and all of the associated characters were just one long, unhappy memory of "the good old days". It was clear that whoever wrote it hated Longshot in particular, but you got the feeling that they really had no question in their minds that their overall disdain for the Mojoverse would be shared by all of their readers.



What he said.

Also has anyone read the Madrox mini?
Highly recommended even if you don't know the character.





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"Re(3):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Mon 14 Feb 21:29:post reply

Please explain your face picture to me.

Here are all the new marvel covers published from 2004. You might need an account to view them, and to vote for nominations of your top 5.
http://marvel.com/coty/main_frames.htm
edit: I determine that the covers thing deserves a new thread if anyone wants to respond.
http://www.mmcafe.com/cgi-bin/forums/bbs/messages/10408.shtml





[this message was edited by Lupin on Mon 14 Feb 21:50]

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"Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Tue 15 Feb 00:37:post reply

quote:
There are manga that are fairly neverending, at least within the run of one creator. Is Five Star Stories still going? Berserk probably won't end until the creator dies.

Berserk is going somewhere and has only one storyline cut in several chapters. It's a story that will end up if the author lives long enough. Many comic books don't have a story beside showing off this and that character, so they can't end as long as the character(s) is (are) popular.

Bastard!! is very close to that, since it can't end as long as the author is alive.
FFS is... It's a genre of its own, so let's not talk about it.





「とにかく、それは愛のムチよ。
愛しいXXX先生は君を愛弟子として愛するがゆえの厳しさよ」だって。

[this message was edited by Iggy on Tue 15 Feb 02:22]

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"Re(2):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Tue 15 Feb 01:52:post reply

Dark zero, Baine, E5150, thanks to all of you for those info.
Still sad to see that when a story arc is known " as bad arc", they prefer forget it, than to take it and make it brand new....

Sano, OK I'll hook you up in 2 weeks, mwhahahaha....

Well as for the drawing style, Turner in more for his "style" that his real works. it's just that I didn't know most of the artist so I'm always thinking to turner's.(IMO phatom is one of the best comics drawned)
I like some other artist, I've searched for some names : Larroca, stuart Immoen...
And the dude who made Danger girls.






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[this message was edited by NARUTO on Tue 15 Feb 02:09]

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"Re(3):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Tue 15 Feb 02:18post reply

quote:
I like some other artist, I've searched for some names : Larroca, stuart Immoen...
And the dude who made Danger girls.



Salvador Larocca is working way to hard, doing like three team books a month sometimes or some craziness like that. His artwork has suffered A LOT for it. He's still good, he used to be better a few years back.

The Danger Girls Artist is Scott Campbell. He's good when it comes to covers, but his story telling artwork is not so great. He messes up anatomy quite often in the actual comics, not so much on the covers.

As for Berserk, I can see it being written for a long time, but shouldn't it end sooner or later? Eventually Caska will have to get cured and Griffith and Gutts should come to terms, fight to death or whatever, right? Then again, isn't Clamp's X Manga still running and that should of ended quite some time ago since 'the end' is kind of important in that book...





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"Re(4):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Tue 15 Feb 02:24post reply

quote:
Then again, isn't Clamp's X Manga still running and that should of ended quite some time ago since 'the end' is kind of important in that book...


Unfortunately, due to problems with them being pretentious jerks, this manga will never end.
Oh well.





「とにかく、それは愛のムチよ。
愛しいXXX先生は君を愛弟子として愛するがゆえの厳しさよ」だって。

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"Re(5):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Tue 15 Feb 02:44post reply

quote:
Then again, isn't Clamp's X Manga still running and that should of ended quite some time ago since 'the end' is kind of important in that book...

Unfortunately, due to problems with them being pretentious jerks, this manga will never end.
Oh well.



And what do you mean by this?





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"Re(2):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Tue 15 Feb 07:11post reply

quote:
Berserk is going somewhere and has only one storyline cut in several chapters. It's a story that will end up if the author lives long enough.


Berserk reads to me like the author has no intention of it ending, and even has problems coming up with the next chapter.

Okay, it is presumably being written to a final battle between Guts and Griffith, and you certainly can't say for sure who will win. Along the way, Guts and Caska will never be happy together.

Look at the difference between the pacing of the young Guts flashback and every other chapter of the story. The flashback is the only section that really had any focus, and the only section where things happen at a reasonable pace. Everywhere else, the story just slowly wanders. Strangely enough, he does seem to have an idea what he wants to do with the characters outside of Guts' group though, as a 50 page shift to Griffith will have more advancement than 200 pages of Guts.





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"Re(3):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Tue 15 Feb 08:30post reply

Kryzewsky : They claimed all the way they wrote the manga from one end to another, it was not the case, they began to introduce horrible parallel storylines to distract from the fact that neither the main story nor the subcharacters had any development, then, suddenly, at the climax, when they can't avoid the fact it has to end, they suddenly stop the manga at mid volume and act like if it was finished.
I think they hope it achieves some kind of cult status (the cursed chef d'oeuvre that never ended, or something), but it's just pathetic.
quote:
Berserk reads to me like the author has no intention of it ending, and even has problems coming up with the next chapter.

I'm sorry if you're unable to see an author when you see one (check 3x3 eyes for comparison).





「とにかく、それは愛のムチよ。
愛しいXXX先生は君を愛弟子として愛するがゆえの厳しさよ」だって。

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"Re(4):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Tue 15 Feb 10:47post reply

quote:
I'm sorry if you're unable to see an author when you see one (check 3x3 eyes for comparison).


I would have mentioned 3x3 Eyes as going on forever, but I don't know if it ever ended. It sure never looked like it was going to, from the 20 or so volumes I have.

The main difference that I see between 3x3 Eyes and Berserk is that while both are going nowhere, 3x3 Eyes does it much faster and Berserk does it with much prettier artwork. That 3x3 Eyes burns out faster (and into boring repetition) is due to the pace that it chews through ideas compared to Berserk.

Personally, I'd like to see Berserk written to a conclusion before the author dies. (As is obvious from the above, I didn't even care to find if 3x3 Eyes ended, and I was reading it at one time.) I just don't see it happening, because I don't think he really intends to end it before he dies.





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"Re(5):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Tue 15 Feb 18:09post reply

quote:
3x3 Eyes does it much faster

No.
Nononononono, oh no 3x3 doesn't do it faster. And if you quit reading the series around volume 20, you haven't read the part where it really became ridiculous.
So far, nearly each episode of Berserk has a clever idea or at least something nobody would have expected and which takes some characters to a new direction, and the situation at the end of an episode is never the same as the situation when it started. Who would have thought Shierke would meet who she met 5 episodes ago? And even the last episode and all its moe had a really interesting development for Pharnese and it will have a real impact on what is going to happen next.
Of course, if you're only interested in Guts and Caska, then you are bored with the current state of the series. But there is a huge difference between "I have to find something to prevent my manga from ending" and "I can't let my manga end now because I have tons of ideas about this and that character who could have this and that consequence on Guts, and the story wouldn't be quite as good if I don't put that in".
Beside, Miura said years ago he had plans for his next manga when Berserk will end.
Yes, it won't happen before 10 years. But if he keeps the same inventivity, who cares, beside some morons who want to see everything now because all the stuff they've downloaded was always completed and they can't understand it's not always the case? Damn Internet.





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愛しいXXX先生は君を愛弟子として愛するがゆえの厳しさよ」だって。

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"Re(2):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Tue 15 Feb 19:54post reply

quote:
15. Psylocke - Has come back from the dead, reappearing in the same exact spot Vargas killed her. No one knows how or why, but she doesn't have the Crimson Dawn symbol anymore.
Oh, Crimson Dawn put that thing on her face. Ok!

quote:
17. Colossus - He's alive. his corpse was found and revived. The body that was cremated was a copy placed after the switch.

So did real Colossus die stopping the legacy virus, then a fake corpse was creamated for no reason, then real dead Colossus was revived? How was he revived?

quote:
'Chicken Sentinels' put in the X-Men's bloodstream by Cassandra Nova
What the heck are Chicken Sentinels?

quote:
22. Iron Man - Has revealed his secret identity to the world and was appointed the U.S. Secretary of Defense. While addressing the UN, it seemed like he was drunk as he trashed the Latverian Representative
Did he wear his Iron Man costume when he was being Secretary of Defense? heheh.

quote:
Avengers writer Bendis said he will update Iron Man's suit saying something along the lines of, "My Cell Phone can take pictures and this guy is still firing Repulsor Rays!"
What's wrong with repulsor rays? I don't follow Marvel that much.

Also Tom Cruz wants to play Tony Stark in an Iron Man movie. Could be good.

quote:
24. Thanos - Death's made him immortal so he can't die and will never embrace Death not even when he dies, ouch!
What? Even when he dies?

quote:
BTW, a few years back when Deadpool was temporarily dead for a while, he was having sex left and right with Death! So she likes Deadpool not Thanos, double ouch!
All I'm saying is death should be hot in some form; skeletons banging is bad for your bones.

quote:
Funny tidbit - A while back Wolverine and Sabretooth were at a gay bar so were hanging out and didn't want to scrap. They both took leaks in stalls standing next to each other. Wolverine peeped over to look at Sabretooth's thingy and revealed to us that Wolverine has a bigger schlong, LOL!
Wolverine





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"Re(3):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Tue 15 Feb 21:21post reply

quote:

17. Colossus - He's alive. his corpse was found and revived. The body that was cremated was a copy placed after the switch.

So did real Colossus die stopping the legacy virus, then a fake corpse was creamated for no reason, then real dead Colossus was revived? How was he revived?




The ultimate solution to anything:


Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Alien technology

End of Spoiler







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"Re(3):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Wed 16 Feb 02:36:post reply

"So did real Colossus die stopping the legacy virus, then a fake corpse was creamated for no reason, then real dead Colossus was revived? How was he revived?"

Marvel's usual style. Keep reading the book until you get a full explanation. I'm not messing with "Astonishing X-Men", Joss Whedon's comic at all after that horrible Colossus return.

"What the heck are Chicken Sentinels?"

How to explain, think of a Sentinel's head with robotic spiderlike legs springing from the bottom of the Sentinel's head. Something like that, they've had a few variations. And they have been reduced to nanites and entered the X-Men's bloodstream as "Nano Chicken Sentinels." Chicken Sentinels are LAME! You don't want to see them.

"Did he wear his Iron Man costume when he was being Secretary of Defense? heheh."

Yes.

"What's wrong with repulsor rays? I don't follow Marvel that much."

I don't know much about science or Marvel's BS science (radiation will kill you, not give you powers, LOL!) but the point Bendis was making was Iron Man's suit hasn't been updated with current technology and it's basically been the same for years and years and years. The suit changes, the technology of the suit advances at a turtle's pace.

"Also Tom Cruz wants to play Tony Stark in an Iron Man movie. Could be good."

I've been hearing this for about 5 + years. No exageration. This is prolly caught up in negotiations, licensing and such. I'm sure the Iron Man movie will happen sooner or later, but by then who knows who will play Tony Stark.

"What? Even when he dies?"

Thanos will never die. He's immortal.

"All I'm saying is death should be hot in some form; skeletons banging is bad for your bones."

Marvel's version of Death can take on many forms, and she takes on different forms for different people. When she encountered Deadpool, she spoke to him and had a sexier look. When she appears to Thanos, she looks smaller, frailer, and doesn't speak much. Kind of like a taller Ayanami Rei of Evangelion fame.

Wolverine



Ha! That image is from Wolverine The End.' In that alternate future reality, Wolverine's brother (also on that cover) has been alive all this time and Wolverine kills the guy. Ain't reunions grand!





[this message was edited by Sano on Wed 16 Feb 02:58]

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"Re(4):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Wed 16 Feb 04:36post reply

quote:
Kryzewsky : They claimed all the way they wrote the manga from one end to another, it was not the case, they began to introduce horrible parallel storylines to distract from the fact that neither the main story nor the subcharacters had any development, then, suddenly, at the climax, when they can't avoid the fact it has to end, they suddenly stop the manga at mid volume and act like if it was finished.
I think they hope it achieves some kind of cult status (the cursed chef d'oeuvre that never ended, or something), but it's just pathetic.
Berserk reads to me like the author has no intention of it ending, and even has problems coming up with the next chapter.
I'm sorry if you're unable to see an author when you see one (check 3x3 eyes for comparison).


So how many volumes X1999 have at last???






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Universe and Human stupidity...Well for the universe I'm not sure....

Just a Person
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"Re(5):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Wed 16 Feb 21:35post reply

Sano, I wonder if you could answer these two doubts I have:

1) Where is Lady Deathstrike now? Last time I saw her in the comics, she was possessed by a kind of computer virus, fought Wolverine and Sam Guthrie and fell into a place. Bishop only found one of her arms, and then blew the place up to avoid that she would be used again. Is she really dead?

2) And what about Vargas? Here in Brazil, we saw Rogue beating him up and almost stabbing him with a sword, but they never showed she actually stabbing him. Is he dead, or does he appear again? Because with Psylocke back to life, that would be interesting...





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Sano
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"Re(6):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Thu 17 Feb 00:04:post reply

quote:
Sano, I wonder if you could answer these two doubts I have:

1) Where is Lady Deathstrike now? Last time I saw her in the comics, she was possessed by a kind of computer virus, fought Wolverine and Sam Guthrie and fell into a place. Bishop only found one of her arms, and then blew the place up to avoid that she would be used again. Is she really dead?

2) And what about Vargas? Here in Brazil, we saw Rogue beating him up and almost stabbing him with a sword, but they never showed she actually stabbing him. Is he dead, or does he appear again? Because with Psylocke back to life, that would be interesting...



1. Marvel doesn't list her as dead so chances are she's still on the run. Missing arms doesn't mean much to someone who has robot parts and such. I'll check what the Wolverine Encyclopedia says just in case.

2. Vargas is alive.





[this message was edited by Sano on Thu 17 Feb 00:06]

Just a Person
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"Re(7):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Thu 17 Feb 06:50post reply

quote:
Sano, I wonder if you could answer these two doubts I have:

1) Where is Lady Deathstrike now? Last time I saw her in the comics, she was possessed by a kind of computer virus, fought Wolverine and Sam Guthrie and fell into a place. Bishop only found one of her arms, and then blew the place up to avoid that she would be used again. Is she really dead?

2) And what about Vargas? Here in Brazil, we saw Rogue beating him up and almost stabbing him with a sword, but they never showed she actually stabbing him. Is he dead, or does he appear again? Because with Psylocke back to life, that would be interesting...


1. Marvel doesn't list her as dead so chances are she's still on the run. Missing arms doesn't mean much to someone who has robot parts and such. I'll check what the Wolverine Encyclopedia says just in case.

2. Vargas is alive.



I knew it! His "death" wasn't even a little convincent!
Thanks for the information, Sano!!





I can be any person in the world ... maybe I'm this person right in front of you ... or maybe I'm not !!

Phoenix
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"3x3" , posted Thu 17 Feb 07:38post reply

Ummmmm, 3x3 ended pretty recently.
I believe it ended at volume 40.
I still remember the shock as I beheld the final volume in my hands...NOBODY knew about this?





Sano
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"Re(8):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Thu 17 Feb 11:26:post reply

quote:


I knew it! His "death" wasn't even a little convincent!
Thanks for the information, Sano!!



Better answers from the Marvel Encyclopedias.

From Lady Deathstrike's section in The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Wolverine 2004. "Deathstrike was buried beneath collapsing rubble, but when the X-Man Bishop investigated he found only her severed cybernetic arm. Deathstrike's whereabouts and activities are unknown."

Vargas' section Fron The X-Men: Marvel Encyclopedia Volume 2. "In the ensuing battle, Rogue defeated him (Vargas), and stood poised to plunge his own sword into his chest. Rogue realized that such actions would make her no better than him and instead left Vargas conquered and bloodied."

But yeah, both are alive and on the loose.

Vargas showed up in Claremont's X-Men: The End, an alternate reality future ending of the X-Men. But with Jean Grey coming back to life in Phoenix End Song, and since the entire plot of X-Men: The End revolves around Jean Grey coming back to life, well, even for an alternate reality future it has been thrown out the window of ever happening before it even finished. Man, even Earth X lasted longer of possibly happening until they up and killed Colossus, oh wait a minute, Colossus is back, I guess Earth X could of happened if they didn't piss all over Wolverine's Origin. Alex Ross, you had us until Paradise X...





[this message was edited by Sano on Thu 17 Feb 11:28]

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"Re(9):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Thu 17 Feb 11:46post reply

quote:


I knew it! His "death" wasn't even a little convincent!
Thanks for the information, Sano!!


Better answers from the Marvel Encyclopedias.

From Lady Deathstrike's section in The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Wolverine 2004. "Deathstrike was buried beneath collapsing rubble, but when the X-Man Bishop investigated he found only her severed cybernetic arm. Deathstrike's whereabouts and activities are unknown."

Vargas' section Fron The X-Men: Marvel Encyclopedia Volume 2. "In the ensuing battle, Rogue defeated him (Vargas), and stood poised to plunge his own sword into his chest. Rogue realized that such actions would make her no better than him and instead left Vargas conquered and bloodied."

But yeah, both are alive and on the loose.

Vargas showed up in Claremont's X-Men: The End, an alternate reality future ending of the X-Men. But with Jean Grey coming back to life in Phoenix End Song, and since the entire plot of X-Men: The End revolves around Jean Grey coming back to life, well, even for an alternate reality future it has been thrown out the window of ever happening before it even finished. Man, even Earth X lasted longer of possibly happening until they up and killed Colossus, oh wait a minute, Colossus is back, I guess Earth X could of happened if they didn't piss all over Wolverine's Origin. Alex Ross, you had us until Paradise X...

What happened with Mr. Ross?





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"Re(10):Re(10):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is" , posted Thu 17 Feb 13:16:post reply

quote:


What happened with Mr. Ross?



He wrote Earth X and Paradise X while providing the covers. His books revealed lots of shocking truths, and he even made some of them make sense like Nightcrawler being Belasco! But he totally dropped the ball on Wolverine's origin. Earth X/Paradise X tried to say all of the Marvel Gods were Aliens created by the Skrulls, which is all well and good until he said that Wolverine was another one of these alien creatures found in the woods by the Howletts. This is a direct contradiction of Wolverine's Origin, embracing it and ignoring it simoultaneously. Wolverine's mother had claw like scars on her stomach, given to her by either baby Wolverine in the womb or Wolverine's dead older brother. So if Wolvie was found in the woods, his brother wasn't and here you have similar people with the same powers, a huge coincidence at best. Not to mention the theory that Dog's father Logan is Wolverine's real father, but Marvel never said outright if he was or not leaving some to believe due to Wolverine's healing factor and survival instinct made him look like Logan, plus when he was on the run he was named Logan (Marvel doesn't answer either way to keep Wolverine mysterious) but the 'Alien' explanation only points to the healing factor answer.

Earth X and Paradise X were great books, but I never finished reading Paradise X. After some point it was like "Wrap this up already!" I think I missed the last few months.

What happened with Mr. Ross? His Artwork rules, he's rich! He sleeps on a bag of money, LOL! I like the guy, he was just pushing things with Wolverine being E.T. is all IMHO.

Next he's going to do his own version of DC's Legion of Doom, including a more Frankenstein like Bizzaro! Should be interesting. I really loved the drawings he did for the begining of the Spider-Man 2 Movie.





[this message was edited by Sano on Thu 17 Feb 14:44]

Lupin
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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):What the Marvel side of M" , posted Thu 17 Feb 14:15post reply

Yes I was just wondering what you were refering too. I think he's good too. I'd buy one of his arts but it so spensive. Also someone else bought it.





Valen
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"Re(2):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Fri 18 Feb 04:52:post reply

quote:

19. Silver Samurai - Quote from the Marvel Universe Wolverine 2004 book because I'm to lazy to paraphrase all of this -

"Clan Yoshida was wrested from him by the Mongolian Kaishek crime family, and he allied with Wolverine to defeat them. The disgrace of losing leadership was too great for Harada(Silver Samurai's real name is Keniuchio Harada), and he returned to mercenary life. Employed by Hydra once more, he was dispatched to Iraq to battle the female ninja Elektra and seemingly slain. Whether he survived is not known."


SS just appeared in Rogue #7 - Forget me not (part 1 of 6). It seams that he will play one of the main roles in this story.
The Plot: Tokyo’s main newspaper printed a story detailed the ties between the family of Shiro Yashida a.k.a. Sunfire and Yakuza. Including evidence that Sunfire’s cousin Shingen Harada, was a Tokyo crime boss, his uncle, Tomo Yoshida, was an anti-american terrorist and allegations of Sunfire’s own involvement in criminal enterprises overseen by another cousin, Kenuichio Harada a.k.a. the Silver Samurai.
One of the main evidence is a photo of Sunfire, Mystique and Rogue on some old japanese boat smiling to each other. But Rogue and Sunfire don’t remember anything about that place…
Sunfire sitting in his office and already really drunk. He decided that the only way to avoid a disgrace is to make hara-kiri. Than an SS appeared behind him and they have a little conversation. Nothing really special except one SS phrase: “I would have come you not summoned me. That so-called “news” story sent shock-waves through the Yakuza. They wonder why the reporter focused on you, when I was the one who sought control of clan Yoshida.
Sunfire asked SS to be his second. But Rouge called and interrupted them. And convinced Sunfire not do something stupid till she arrived in Japan. Sunfire asked SS to arrange a flight for Rouge. When plain came to pick up a Rouge, she was attacked by Lady DeathSrike. Rouge tricked her and fly on the plain to Japan.
On last page of that Issue SS talked with some lady that stays in shadow in the locked room with some bullet-proof door.
Lady: Well…? You gonna tell me if Madame manicure nailed Rogue, or what?
SS: She said the treacherous girl managed to evade her. She sounded very… cross.
Lady: I knew it! Rogue always was harder to kill than she looked.
SS: If Deathstrike sought to kill your friend instead of merely capture her, then we would not be having this conversation. In any case, Rogue is coming here to Japan, presumably to confront my cousin Shiro. And she will find us waiting.





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[this message was edited by Valen on Fri 18 Feb 04:56]

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"Marvel" , posted Fri 18 Feb 18:20post reply

quote:
Rogue realized that such actions would make her no better than him and instead left Vargas conquered and bloodied.


That actually annoyed me. In the issue, you never see what Rogue does. You only hear her tell the rest of the team that she let Vargas live, and Vargas isn't seen again.

With it up in the air, it actually works pretty nice. Maybe she kept Destiny's prophecy (of her killing Vargas with a sword) and lied to her friends (which would mean the diaries were still useful, but that Rogue's lie would cause the X-Men to abandon them anyway). And Claremont is no stranger to leaving plotlines dangling for decades. But no. Vargas shows up in The End and it also becomes official that Rogue let him live. Vargas doesn't even really have a purpose, since his whole motivation was to kill Rogue before Rogue killed him.

quote:
This is a direct contradiction of Wolverine's Origin


Hardly anything new. Wolverine gets a backstory contradiction every few months. Sometimes he gets multiple in a single issue. Weapon X related things have been rewritten pretty much every time the subject is raise. Everything pre-X-Men in is history is considered fair game due to all the things done to his memory, regardless of corraborating evidence. He's even had his mutant power retroactively changed.

quote:
Wolverine The End


Entertaining that Marvel won't even kill Wolverine in an alternate future swan song story. Guess they want to leave things open for a sequel.





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"Berserk" , posted Fri 18 Feb 18:54post reply

quote:
Nononononono, oh no 3x3 doesn't do it faster.


Hrm... Possible. I've only read 3x3 Eyes in volume form, while I've read Berserk in both volume and waiting between individual chapters. Plus Berserk does have the pacing difference between the flashback and current time.

quote:
So far, nearly each episode of Berserk has a clever idea or at least something nobody would have expected and which takes some characters to a new direction, and the situation at the end of an episode is never the same as the situation when it started.


Pretty much one idea max per chapter than I can recall. Including character development spots, which might not advance the actual story.

quote:
Of course, if you're only interested in Guts and Caska, then you are bored with the current state of the series.


I like about half of the cast. Guts, Casca, Farnese, and Schierke primarily. Haven't liked Puck for a while, ever since he pretty much became a running gag. Griffith still has some interesting bits, even though I don't actually like him. The kid wannabe warrior was interesting at first, but too often ended up comic relief with Puck. Never liked Serpico.

quote:
But there is a huge difference between "I have to find something to prevent my manga from ending" and "I can't let my manga end now because I have tons of ideas about this and that character who could have this and that consequence on Guts, and the story wouldn't be quite as good if I don't put that in".


For me, he is extending the story with whatever he can think of, and doing it slowly. For you, he is carefully crafting a detailed world of actions and consequences, where the story is prime. I feel he is marking time, while you feel he is filling time.

I still read it. I still wait for the next chapter. I still like reading it.

I just get annoyed that from my view things aren't going to progress. The main story won't resolve for years or decades and the characters generally evolve at a snail's pace. I can understand how you can disagree though.

And I at least can like that Miura comes up with sometimes interesting sidetracks and new ideas. Schierke's current view of Guts for example wasn't exactly expected for me, but is believable.





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"Re(1):Berserk" , posted Fri 18 Feb 19:40post reply

quote:
I've only read 3x3 Eyes in volume form

Lucky guy.
But indeed, you get a totally different perception of time when you follow a manga chapter by chapter or volume by volume.

quote:
Pretty much one idea max per chapter than I can recall. Including character development spots, which might not advance the actual story.

Yes, but if they are brilliant ideas you'd never have foretold and exposed in a dramatic fashion? I mean, we're not talking of "and I draw the card I didn't even knew I had in my desk and whose only power is to destroy all the specific traps you've used until now".
quote:
Haven't liked Puck for a while, ever since he pretty much became a running gag.

I thought it was his role from his first appearance (because the first 3 volume never existed, actually)? But I know what you mean, his role as a support to Guts is less important now he has a team, and Ivarella took some of his gimmicks.

quote:
The kid wannabe warrior was interesting at first, but too often ended up comic relief with Puck. Never liked Serpico.

Ishidoro gets on my nerves, but I'm waiting to see if the development many foresee for him will happen. (doro...)
Serpico... He was even more useless as Farnese, but it make sense because of his relationship with her, and I really liked their flashback around volume 22.

quote:
For me, he is extending the story with whatever he can think of, and doing it slowly. For you, he is carefully crafting a detailed world of actions and consequences, where the story is prime.

OK, I agree with the slow pace of the manga. But my reading of 3x3 and Bastard!! have a big influence of what I would consider "annoyingly slow".

quote:
Schierke's current view of Guts for example wasn't exactly expected for me, but is believable.

I especially liked Sonja's appearance. The two of them meeting was totally unexpected, and the way Miura used the scene to expose Sonja's feeling in a way that would have been difficult otherwise really impressed me.

A little like what happened with the troll chapter. At first, it seemed like a total waste of pages, but now it's a part of the manga you can't really erase (Slan, Gururun, the armor, and Shierke's emotional state).

It's slow, but it's a non-boring slow.





Moi : Oui bien sûr mais pourrions nous quitter le milieu de la route et discuter de cela sur le trottoir?
Amaterasu : Oh ils n'oseront pas. Je suis dans mon droit.
Moi : Vous savez je préfère avoir tord et rester en vie.
Amaterasu : Ah ? Pas moi.

Sano
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"Re(3):What the Marvel side of MVC2 is up to." , posted Fri 18 Feb 20:57post reply

quote:



SS just appeared in Rogue #7 - Forget me not (part 1 of 6). It seams that he will play one of the main roles in this story.
The Plot: Tokyo’s main newspaper printed a story detailed the ties between the family of Shiro Yashida a.k.a. Sunfire and Yakuza. Including evidence that Sunfire’s cousin Shingen Harada, was a Tokyo crime boss, his uncle, Tomo Yoshida, was an anti-american terrorist and allegations of Sunfire’s own involvement in criminal enterprises overseen by another cousin, Kenuichio Harada a.k.a. the Silver Samurai.
One of the main evidence is a photo of Sunfire, Mystique and Rogue on some old japanese boat smiling to each other. But Rogue and Sunfire don’t remember anything about that place…
Sunfire sitting in his office and already really drunk. He decided that the only way to avoid a disgrace is to make hara-kiri. Than an SS appeared behind him and they have a little conversation. Nothing really special except one SS phrase: “I would have come you not summoned me. That so-called “news” story sent shock-waves through the Yakuza. They wonder why the reporter focused on you, when I was the one who sought control of clan Yoshida.
Sunfire asked SS to be his second. But Rouge called and interrupted them. And convinced Sunfire not do something stupid till she arrived in Japan. Sunfire asked SS to arrange a flight for Rouge. When plain came to pick up a Rouge, she was attacked by Lady DeathSrike. Rouge tricked her and fly on the plain to Japan.
On last page of that Issue SS talked with some lady that stays in shadow in the locked room with some bullet-proof door.
Lady: Well…? You gonna tell me if Madame manicure nailed Rogue, or what?
SS: She said the treacherous girl managed to evade her. She sounded very… cross.
Lady: I knew it! Rogue always was harder to kill than she looked.
SS: If Deathstrike sought to kill your friend instead of merely capture her, then we would not be having this conversation. In any case, Rogue is coming here to Japan, presumably to confront my cousin Shiro. And she will find us waiting.



Thanks. Info on Silver Samurai and Lady Deathstrike! ^_^





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"Re(2):Berserk" , posted Sat 19 Feb 08:09post reply

quote:
But my reading of 3x3 and Bastard!! have a big influence of what I would consider "annoyingly slow".


Bastard!! takes "going nowhere" into a whole new dimension. It looks like it is going somewhere, until you realize the entire world gets a power upgrade or shift every few volumes, and pretty much everything before becomes meaningless.

quote:
It's slow, but it's a non-boring slow.


If it were released twice as fast at the same quality, I wouldn't complain about the pace.

I guess it just happens to be at a borderline for my tolerance, and liking the series itself puts it right past the edge. I want to see some resolution or real progress in areas that Miura probably feels he cannot afford to progress (whether it be to extend the story or to tell what he wants in the time he has), and get annoyed when I think about the detail that the full run will be measured in decades.

On a positive, at least it isn't Appleseed. Berserk actually gets released rather than going on a ... Hrm... What's the downtime after Appleseed Volume 4? Not counting the databooks or the movie... 10 volume series, sure... 10 volumes until he found he could make more money from GitS and pin-up art.

quote:
Ummmmm, 3x3 ended pretty recently.


Maybe I'll actually finish my collection then. Actually having an end makes it feel like a little less of a waste of time. Hrm... It does actually have a real end? Not a "we're getting cancelled soon, so just wrap things up quickly" finish?