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Iggy
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"MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Wed 12 Jan 02:14post reply

For those who bought the japanese version of MGS3.





「とにかく、それは愛のムチよ。
愛しいXXX先生は君を愛弟子として愛するがゆえの厳しさよ」だって。

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Undead Fred
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"Re(1):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Wed 12 Jan 03:15post reply

quote:
For those who bought the japanese version of MGS3.

Babelfish Nightmare was trying to tell me something... so, the sound's screwed up, but they're not going to fix it?





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"Re(1):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Thu 13 Jan 01:14post reply

quote:
For those who bought the japanese version of MGS3.



クッジョッブ
Konami!





「この世に悪があるとすれば、それは人の心だ。」

Maou
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"Re(2):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Thu 13 Jan 03:27post reply

quote:

クッジョッブ
Konami!


Again with the 必殺技:全てを本体のせいにする! The Konami strikes again!





人間はいつも私を驚かせてくれる。不思議なものだな、人間という存在は...

Undead Fred
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"Re(3):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Thu 13 Jan 18:49post reply

So, will someone please tell me what that article said? I don't understand the "English" that Babelfish gives me from the article...





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"Re(4):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Fri 14 Jan 02:04post reply

quote:
So, will someone please tell me what that article said? I don't understand the "English" that Babelfish gives me from the article...



It basically blames peoples' PS2 for the sound errors in the game, and suggests optical reader cleaning and/or fixing.





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"Re(5):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Fri 14 Jan 02:27post reply

quote:
It basically blames peoples' PS2 for the sound errors in the game, and suggests optical reader cleaning and/or fixing.

Ahhh, okay thanks.





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"Re(5):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Fri 14 Jan 05:55post reply

quote:
It basically blames peoples' PS2 for the sound errors in the game, and suggests optical reader cleaning and/or fixing.


And the sound skip is the only problem they recognize, and they say it happens on very rare occasion, and anyways it's your fault, shut up, we don't care, we already have your money.





「とにかく、それは愛のムチよ。
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"Re(1):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Fri 14 Jan 07:50post reply

quote:
For those who bought the japanese version of MGS3.



Konami just hates us perioud releasing such a crap game. They really went out of their way to make sure you have no fun while getting bogged down with tedious tasks such as hunting for food and healing yourself. bleh.

OH, and motorcycle flash kicks RULE.





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"Re(2):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Fri 14 Jan 09:08post reply

quote:
Konami just hates us perioud releasing such a crap game. They really went out of their way to make sure you have no fun while getting bogged down with tedious tasks such as hunting for food and healing yourself. bleh.

OH, and motorcycle flash kicks RULE.

Man, I thought MGS3 was the best MGS out there... I really liked having to manage all that stuff (stamina, inventory, etc.) as well as being careful and working my way through areas instead of being able to walk in and pick off guards with a silenced weapon and not worry about them being able to see me 10 feet away in a brightly-lit room. I liked having to worry about being seen and making noise. One of my favorite fights was The End... Super-careful sniper battles are just fun to me.

That does suck about the sound glitches, though. It sounds like something they caught way after all of those discs were printed and they just didn't want to lose all that money recalling them. Too bad they can't patch it somehow.





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"Re(2):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Fri 14 Jan 10:18post reply

quote:
For those who bought the japanese version of MGS3.


Konami just hates us perioud releasing such a crap game. They really went out of their way to make sure you have no fun while getting bogged down with tedious tasks such as hunting for food and healing yourself. bleh.



You forgot changing your camouflage!

I'm not knocking the game, really, but I know they could have easily figured ways around the healing and fooding interface... they had to be conscious design choices.





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"Re(3):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Fri 14 Jan 16:25post reply

MGS3 was a great game, but I thought it was the weakest of the trilogy.

This guy pretty much exactly sums up why.





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"Re(4):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Fri 14 Jan 17:05post reply

quote:
MGS3 was a great game, but I thought it was the weakest of the trilogy.

This guy pretty much exactly sums up why.

All the things he was complaining about were the things I loved about the game and thought were missing from the first two... Yeah, there were a few parts where I had a little trouble shaking an alert, but overall it wasn't too bad. The only complaint I had was not being able to really use the old make a noise to lead a guard tactics from before. All you've really got to do is keep your camo high, your head down, and your eyes open. Playing though all of MGS1 Snake's VR missions in MGS2 Substance probably helped me, though. I loved MGS3. I guess my point is that I knew I was getting a stealth game with more emphasis on being detected, so I was expecting to be hiding and creeping around a lot. I guess it just goes either way with people who've played it.





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"Re(4):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Fri 14 Jan 22:33post reply

quote:
MGS3 was a great game, but I thought it was the weakest of the trilogy.

This guy pretty much exactly sums up why.



I can't believe that someone would actually reset the game "instead of waiting out Alert Mode". All you have to do to cancel out alert mode is eliminate all of the guards around you and then hide. The other day, I actually saw three guards coming, hit each one with a tranquilizer dart right before they even saw me, and then just barrelled into all of them, knocking them unconscious. After that I just hid behind a tree and Alert Mode ended almost instantly.

And really, the whole thing makes sense. If a fugitive is spotted by a cop, can he just hide behind a corner and the cop will lose track of him? No. If you're spotted by someone who's hunting you, you have to take that guy out, then hide, so that no one knows exactly where you are. And that's exactly how MGS3 works. If there aren't any guards around that are actually firing their AK-47s at you (the universal sign for "Hey! He's over here!"), they have no idea where you are, and give up.

quote:
You forgot changing your camouflage!

I'm not knocking the game, really, but I know they could have easily figured ways around the healing and fooding interface... they had to be conscious design choices.


I'd say that they were probably conscious design choices because any other way of implementing them would have actually been worse. Yes, pausing to enter the menus for eating, healing, and camouflaging yourself is annoying, but I think it had to be. If you could just mini-pause to open up a menu to change your camouflage the same way you change your weapons and items, people would use it constantly. "Look, a dark room! --Switch to Dark Camo-- Oh no, a bright spot in the dark room! --Switch to Snow Camo-- Oh look, a box! --Switch to Splitter Camo-- Oh no, I'm only at 99.99999% Stamina! --eats a ration--"

If there wasn't something annoying about it, people would use it constantly. Eventually, about five hours in, the pause lag teaches you that you don't need to have 100% stamina all the time, don't need to burn off every leech on the spot, and don't need to have 95% camo non-stop. If it were any easier, you'd drive yourself crazy with it thinking that you always had to have everything set perfectly.

The system definitely wasn't perfect, but I just don't think that making it easier would've been better. If it had to be there, it had to be the way it was.





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"design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 00:42post reply

quote:

All you've really got to do is keep your camo high, your head down, and your eyes open... I guess my point is that I knew I was getting a stealth game with more emphasis on being detected, so I was expecting to be hiding and creeping around a lot. I guess it just goes either way with people who've played it.



That's pretty much how I feel about it. The guards are intentionally tough to shake so you'll avoid detection... it's nowhere near impossible to shake an alert. If you personally don't like putting in the effort avoiding detection or evading alerts (or learn how to do so in the first place), maybe it's just not your type of game. That reviewer would obviously be off playing Beyond Good and Evil, but not everyone has the same tastes right?


quote:

I'd say that they were probably conscious design choices because any other way of implementing them would have actually been worse...

The system definitely wasn't perfect, but I just don't think that making it easier would've been better. If it had to be there, it had to be the way it was.



I don't think it should be easier either. I'm fairly sure that the intention is to get players to play smarter and more cautiously. Annoyance is one way of doing that, but surely there are better ways that are more in line with the game's vision. Considering the dev team's obvious talents, I think they could have done it.

I'd actually like healing to be more difficult by extension of being more logical. Why should Snake be able to stop time and step into some alternate, videogamey dimension to administer first-aid?

The same thing goes for switching Camo patterns... how the hell is that instant-change action supposed to work? Where does he keep them? I'm not going to get into the food....

I'd like to see the player have to lean up against something and perform simple controller actions (say with the analog sticks) in real time to dig out a bullet with your knife, apply disinfectant, apply styptic, and what have you. Not only would it be really tense in an adverse situation, but survival instinct (this would make you vulnerable, obviously) seems like be a much better motivator than annoyance for gameplay purposes.

Something like this might create some balance issues, but I think they could work around it fairly easily. Seeing Snake prying crossbow bolts out of himself would be a hell of a lot cooler than jumping through interface hoops and pretend it never happened, wouldn't it?





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"Re(1):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 07:30post reply

quote:
I'd like to see the player have to lean up against something and perform simple controller actions (say with the analog sticks) in real time to dig out a bullet with your knife, apply disinfectant, apply styptic, and what have you. Not only would it be really tense in an adverse situation, but survival instinct (this would make you vulnerable, obviously) seems like be a much better motivator than annoyance for gameplay purposes.

Something like this might create some balance issues, but I think they could work around it fairly easily. Seeing Snake prying crossbow bolts out of himself would be a hell of a lot cooler than jumping through interface hoops and pretend it never happened, wouldn't it?

I agree, it would be cool and more realistic and I'm sure I would enjoy that, but it would really throw off the balance with the boss fights. You can't really hide at all toward the end (in the boss fights, I mean), so you'd pretty much not be allowed to heal in this case. That would still make a great hard difficulty level, though.

I kind of played as if patching wounds took time, though. If I got shot up during an alert, I'd wait until I could clear the alert before I started stitching things up. Well, it was both for the "OMG LETS PRETEND IT TAKES TIME" reason and the fact that I'd just be patching more wounds if I didn't clear the alert.





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"Re(2):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 07:57post reply

quote:

I kind of played as if patching wounds took time, though. If I got shot up during an alert, I'd wait until I could clear the alert before I started stitching things up. Well, it was both for the "OMG LETS PRETEND IT TAKES TIME" reason and the fact that I'd just be patching more wounds if I didn't clear the alert.



I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who made up silly rules for themselves while playing Snake Eater. I used to do the same thing for no logical reason, and now I'm playing through the game a second time using only non-lethal means and wearing nothing but the tuxedo. Why? Because it's just that kind of game. It makes you ask yourself things like, "What if I played through the entire game with nothing but pants, a Croc Cap, and a shotgun?"





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"Re(3):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 08:16post reply

quote:
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who made up silly rules for themselves while playing Snake Eater. I used to do the same thing for no logical reason, and now I'm playing through the game a second time using only non-lethal means and wearing nothing but the tuxedo. Why? Because it's just that kind of game. It makes you ask yourself things like, "What if I played through the entire game with nothing but pants, a Croc Cap, and a shotgun?"

Heh heh. Man, that's gonna be rough fighting The End that way...

Yeah, I'd even do little things like taking off the scientist uniform and maintenance uniform if I had to fight my way out of an alert in those areas where you're supposed to be using them. Well, you couldn't use weapons with them on... but I was wearing the Raiden mask too so I'd look less like a soldier in a lab coat (even though it doesn't matter somehow). Ah, you get my point. Yeah, I did a bunch of little things like that.





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"Re(3):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 08:18post reply

I guess people were expecting Final Fantasy syndrome where you can carry 9,999 items and summon anything in the middle of battle.





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"Re(4):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 08:22post reply

quote:
I guess people were expecting Final Fantasy syndrome where you can carry 9,999 items and summon anything in the middle of battle.

Yeah. I'm fine with it in most cases (and I prefer it in a lot of them), but I liked having to manage the backpack just because it fit with the game for me. You spend a lot of time out in the jungle, so I guess I just EXPECTED to have to keep track of a bunch of things like that.





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"Re(4):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 09:23post reply

quote:
I guess people were expecting Final Fantasy syndrome where you can carry 9,999 items and summon anything in the middle of battle.



Well, my whole problem with the game is that if they were going for "realism" they failed miserably. Someone already mentioned the alternate pocket dimension Snake slips into to administer treatment.

And dude... you CAN hold like 9,999 items. There's no way for anyone to hold the amount of items "naked snake" has even at the start of the game. Why go for that "realistic" feeling when the whole game is bullshit anyway? All that does is kill the enjoyment.

The entire game's design is flawed right down to the basics. Why not just make the game first person when you spend most of your time in that view trying to spot enemies? Why do the binoculars always start out on lowest magnification and take forever to zoom in? Blah blah blah blah... motorcycle flash kick!

Go play Resident Evil 4.





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"Re(5):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 09:58post reply

quote:

The entire game's design is flawed right down to the basics. Why not just make the game first person when you spend most of your time in that view trying to spot enemies? Why do the binoculars always start out on lowest magnification and take forever to zoom in? Blah blah blah blah... motorcycle flash kick!


I hate to sound like a fanboy (even though I do love this game), but I don't understand this argument, and I didn't understand it in the linked review, either. Did people really use the first person view that much? I didn't. Between peaking around corners, looking around with the right analog stick, and using Sonar to essentially get the MGS1 radar back, I really only used first person view for shooting. And whenever peaking around corners or using the right analog stick wasn't sufficient to see something, using them with the Thermal Goggles on usually was. And I still had plenty of battery power. Was that reviewer who complained that there was "no radar" and "an unused right analog stick" actually playing the same game I was? Because I had radar and I was certainly using the right analog stick.

I mean... why would you even use the binoculars, when there were TONS of other choices that'd make more sense? At the very least, I'd use the SVD or the Mosin Nagant if I needed to see something up close, so that I could shoot whatever I saw. And on top of that, the SVD and Mosin Nagant were ridiculously overpowered. Not only could you take out entire areas of guards with them, but they specifically gave you several rooftops for the explicit purpose of wiping out an entire area with them.

quote:
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who made up silly rules for themselves while playing Snake Eater. I used to do the same thing for no logical reason, and now I'm playing through the game a second time using only non-lethal means and wearing nothing but the tuxedo. Why? Because it's just that kind of game. It makes you ask yourself things like, "What if I played through the entire game with nothing but pants, a Croc Cap, and a shotgun?"

Heh heh. Man, that's gonna be rough fighting The End that way...


If you mean the tuxedo and the tranquilizer gun, then it really wasn't that much harder than normal. You just have to play it the MGS1 way, constantly running from gunfire and hiding behind objects as much as possible. The hardest boss under those conditions, surprisingly, was The Pain. Fighting The Pain with nothing but a tranquilizer pistol sucked, because you can't wail on him with an AK-47 during the three or so seconds that he doesn't have his bee armor on. I expect that The Boss will probably be the hardest though, because you can't CQC with the Tux on, and I relied entirely on CQC to beat her.





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"Re(5):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 12:17post reply

quote:
Well, my whole problem with the game is that if they were going for "realism" they failed miserably. Someone already mentioned the alternate pocket dimension Snake slips into to administer treatment.

And dude... you CAN hold like 9,999 items. There's no way for anyone to hold the amount of items "naked snake" has even at the start of the game. Why go for that "realistic" feeling when the whole game is bullshit anyway? All that does is kill the enjoyment.

The entire game's design is flawed right down to the basics. Why not just make the game first person when you spend most of your time in that view trying to spot enemies? Why do the binoculars always start out on lowest magnification and take forever to zoom in? Blah blah blah blah... motorcycle flash kick!

Go play Resident Evil 4.

Well, there isn't really such a thing as a 100% real game like this. If there are med kits that heal you right away, then OMG IT DESTROYS EVERY SHRED OF REALISM. It's a video game, so you can only go so far with realism without making everyone run to their keyboards and complain about how hard the game was. The way around the magic time warps and stuff is to just play like I did with those little made-up rules. No big deal.

As for the issue with the binoculars, I didn't like them that much until I realized that the zoom actually isn't slow- press harder on the zoom button and it'll go in really fast. It's pressure sensitive.

I really, really can't see how this game is corrupt to the core. I thought it was very well-done. I know there are plenty of people that like MGS1 or 2 much much more and that's totally fine. It's like the same storyline but in a different style or something. MGS3 was really appealing to me because it's a "stealth game" where you actually have to sneak.

quote:
If you mean the tuxedo and the tranquilizer gun, then it really wasn't that much harder than normal. You just have to play it the MGS1 way, constantly running from gunfire and hiding behind objects as much as possible. The hardest boss under those conditions, surprisingly, was The Pain. Fighting The Pain with nothing but a tranquilizer pistol sucked, because you can't wail on him with an AK-47 during the three or so seconds that he doesn't have his bee armor on. I expect that The Boss will probably be the hardest though, because you can't CQC with the Tux on, and I relied entirely on CQC to beat her.
Damn, no CQC with the tux, huh? Man, that would be rough. The Boss would be about the same for me since I beat her the first time by ducking into the flowers and popping up with the sniper rifle.





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"Re(5):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 12:21:post reply

quote:
Go play Resident Evil 4.

Follow your own advice and "quityerbitchin". I, for one, was terribly pleased with this game. Everyone else has analyzed the death out of it alreasy, so I'll just say it's by far my favorite Metal Gear game (and I include MG and MG Solid Snake in that.)

Edit: And this reminds me, all of this "realism in games" thing is annoying. A game can be psuedo-realistic, but it has a right to not be completely real, because if it was, it would be fucking boring. You get caught once and you're dead. If anybody ever names a COMPLETELY realistic game, it will suck. If people want realism so much, they should go for a walk in the park. "WHOA, so realistic graphics!"





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"Re(6):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 17:19post reply

MGS3 was amazing =)

You know, when your crawling in the grass and you can't see, all you have to do is press R1, and then L2 and R2 at the same time... you kind of put your head up in the grass, but still have all your camo (kind of cheating huh?).

Oh and Dark Zero, you know how to get the tranq. sniper rifle right? That'll help you a lot on doing a no kill game. I'm attempting one myself, but I picked up Shadow Hearts 2 and that's grabbing all my time now.





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"Re(7):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 21:04post reply

quote:

Oh and Dark Zero, you know how to get the tranq. sniper rifle right? That'll help you a lot on doing a no kill game. I'm attempting one myself, but I picked up Shadow Hearts 2 and that's grabbing all my time now.



Yeah, the Mosin Nagant is pretty helpful. I've had to get good enough with the pistol during the first half of the game that I don't really need it, but it pretty much owned The Fury for me, and it's come in helpful in Groznyj Grad. I expect it'll probably be the only weapon that I use against some of the final bosses, as well as the motorcycle enemies toward the end. Thanks, though.

And yeah, I'm in the same situation. I started playing Shin Megami Tensei, but I'm still gonna try to fit in Snake Eater again at some point.





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"Re(6):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 22:36post reply

quote:
Go play Resident Evil 4.
Follow your own advice and "quityerbitchin". I, for one, was terribly pleased with this game. Everyone else has analyzed the death out of it alreasy, so I'll just say it's by far my favorite Metal Gear game (and I include MG and MG Solid Snake in that.)

Edit: And this reminds me, all of this "realism in games" thing is annoying. A game can be psuedo-realistic, but it has a right to not be completely real, because if it was, it would be fucking boring. You get caught once and you're dead. If anybody ever names a COMPLETELY realistic game, it will suck. If people want realism so much, they should go for a walk in the park. "WHOA, so realistic graphics!"



haha, fair enough.

It wouldn't have bothered me as much if I wasn't such a big fan of the first two games. I'm glad this one was a prequel. Hopefully the next true sequel in the series sorts some of the more annoying stuff out.





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"Re(6):design issues" , posted Sat 15 Jan 23:26post reply

quote:
Follow your own advice and "quityerbitchin". I, for one, was terribly pleased with this game. Everyone else has analyzed the death out of it alreasy, so I'll just say it's by far my favorite Metal Gear game (and I include MG and MG Solid Snake in that.)

Edit: And this reminds me, all of this "realism in games" thing is annoying. A game can be psuedo-realistic, but it has a right to not be completely real, because if it was, it would be fucking boring. You get caught once and you're dead. If anybody ever names a COMPLETELY realistic game, it will suck. If people want realism so much, they should go for a walk in the park. "WHOA, so realistic graphics!"


WOW!! Amen to that!
MGS was never supposed to be a "Realistic" game, but a game with a "realistic story". In other word a game with a story "that" may be possible and/or credible.

IMO I prefer fight the Shahogod, that any other Real tank.
IF you want reality go play Rainbow six....






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"Re(4):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Sun 16 Jan 00:48:post reply

quote:
MGS3 was a great game, but I thought it was the weakest of the trilogy.

This guy pretty much exactly sums up why.

anyone who agrees with the opinion of the guy who posted that is a complete moron. everything he said about what is wrong in the game just proves how stupid he really is.

also, it's funny how people dont get the message in mgs that 'It's easy to kill people and make it realistic in VR aka video games but its the opposite when it's in real life.' MGS' message just cant go through on some people.





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[this message was edited by D`Cloud on Sun 16 Jan 01:01]

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"Re(7):design issues" , posted Sun 16 Jan 06:35post reply

quote:
haha, fair enough.

It wouldn't have bothered me as much if I wasn't such a big fan of the first two games. I'm glad this one was a prequel. Hopefully the next true sequel in the series sorts some of the more annoying stuff out.

Yeah, I figured that's why some people were railing on MGS3. I liked MGS1 and 2, but I was happy to see all of the gameplay changes in MGS3. I guess if you look at it as "different time, different character, different style", then it wouldn't be as aggravating to fans of the originals...





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"Re(7):design issues" , posted Sat 22 Jan 03:37post reply

quote:
You know, when your crawling in the grass and you can't see, all you have to do is press R1, and then L2 and R2 at the same time... you kind of put your head up in the grass, but still have all your camo (kind of cheating huh?).
I believe I got caught one time on expert mode doing that. I had like 80-85% camo, the guy was staring in my direction, and didn't notice me until I peaked my head up. Could've been something else though, but I'm pretty sure it was because I poked out.





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"Re(8):design issues" , posted Sat 22 Jan 08:08post reply

I just finished the game and loved it, but no more and no less than any other MGS game. I have decided that David Hayter is now outclassed by better voice actors, though.

What really bugged me about the game was the extremely long caution time. And sure, you can say "that discourages you from getting caught", but that's not true at all. It either encourages you to kill yourself after you DO get caught (because that's faster than hiding) or to just run through the area like a moron. I ran through several areas like a moron and in several more I TRIED to kill myself and somehow, miraculously got rid of the alert, then ran to the end without problems. This is NOT a good system. It doesn't ruin the game, but it's still irritating.

I also don't buy it when people say "they did whatever to be more realistic", because MGS is not, by any stretch of the imagination, about realism. It's about novelty. If something novel and fun happens to be realistic, then so be it.

I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but I ran into a "super soldier" in the game that could see me AFTER I killed him. As his body flopped to the ground he alerted people many times. I also shot him 3 times in the heart with the sniper rifle to no avail. Maybe this is normal, since it seems like the only way to shoot people is in the head.





Undead Fred
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"Re(9):design issues" , posted Sat 22 Jan 09:23post reply

quote:
I just finished the game and loved it, but no more and no less than any other MGS game. I have decided that David Hayter is now outclassed by better voice actors, though.

What really bugged me about the game was the extremely long caution time. And sure, you can say "that discourages you from getting caught", but that's not true at all. It either encourages you to kill yourself after you DO get caught (because that's faster than hiding) or to just run through the area like a moron. I ran through several areas like a moron and in several more I TRIED to kill myself and somehow, miraculously got rid of the alert, then ran to the end without problems. This is NOT a good system. It doesn't ruin the game, but it's still irritating.

I also don't buy it when people say "they did whatever to be more realistic", because MGS is not, by any stretch of the imagination, about realism. It's about novelty. If something novel and fun happens to be realistic, then so be it.

I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but I ran into a "super soldier" in the game that could see me AFTER I killed him. As his body flopped to the ground he alerted people many times. I also shot him 3 times in the heart with the sniper rifle to no avail. Maybe this is normal, since it seems like the only way to shoot people is in the head.

The "super soldier" had to be a glitch... I had no problems like that whatsoever when I was playing. Not sure if anyone else did, though.

You're right, MGS isn't about realism (they have been semi-realistic, though), but it doesn't really mean they can't make things more realistic in terms of the gameplay. Why shouldn't a guard be able to see me in bright daylight five feet away? I had always been a little disappointed in dumb, blind guards in stealth games, so it's a lot more fun and challenging when they actually bother to make them sound-sensitive and give them decent eyesight. That's what I appreciated in MGS3, and I pretty much expected that I would have to be more careful in this one, so it wasn't a surprise.

I had put up with alert time like everyone else, but I only really took the pill a few times here and there and only really ran through shooting when I wanted to vent during an aggravating part. Heh heh. I'd usually let them kill me at some point and I'd try again, though. Otherwise, the only running and shooting I did was to try and kill an alert and get to a hiding place. Many of the times I was evading an alert, I had wounds that needed to be patched and energy to get refilled anyway, so hiding time was still sort of practical.

I'm just saying that all the stuff people had been complaining about seemed like improvements to me.





DarkZero
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"Re(9):design issues" , posted Sat 22 Jan 11:45post reply

quote:

What really bugged me about the game was the extremely long caution time. And sure, you can say "that discourages you from getting caught", but that's not true at all. It either encourages you to kill yourself after you DO get caught (because that's faster than hiding) or to just run through the area like a moron. I ran through several areas like a moron and in several more I TRIED to kill myself and somehow, miraculously got rid of the alert, then ran to the end without problems. This is NOT a good system. It doesn't ruin the game, but it's still irritating.



I think the biggest problem with MGS3 was probably its documentation. The game and its manual tell you to wait out an alert, but that's not really what you're supposed to do. You just have to tranq or kill all of the guards that are very close to you and it will end almost instantly. You don't have to kill yourself and you don't have to just give up and go on a psychotic killing spree like you do in Hitman 2. You can just take out a couple of guards and then you're fine.

The system with the radios has the same problem. The game never tells you all of the silly rules about the radio, such as A) If you destroy one guard's radio, you render the others useless, or B) If you kill the only guard in the area with a radio, the other guards somehow miraculously have another one. Once you learn all of the ways to disable the guards, such as knocking out the radios and blowing up the little supply shacks, the guards are a joke, and Alert and Caution Modes end almost instantly.





Undead Fred
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"Re(10):design issues" , posted Sat 22 Jan 12:51post reply

quote:
The system with the radios has the same problem. The game never tells you all of the silly rules about the radio, such as A) If you destroy one guard's radio, you render the others useless, or B) If you kill the only guard in the area with a radio, the other guards somehow miraculously have another one. Once you learn all of the ways to disable the guards, such as knocking out the radios and blowing up the little supply shacks, the guards are a joke, and Alert and Caution Modes end almost instantly.

I just assumed that was one of the things they just wanted you to figure out over the course of the game. It took me a little while to realize that not every single guard had a radio, because I'd hear the ones without them start yelling for him to put in a call for help.

The only thing I didn't like about blowing up the supply shacks was having to listen to the people in the area whine the ENTIRE TIME. Ah, well.





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"Re(6):design issues" , posted Sat 22 Jan 14:01post reply

quote:
Did people really use the first person view that much? I didn't. Between peaking around corners, looking around with the right analog stick, and using Sonar to essentially get the MGS1 radar back, I really only used first person view for shooting.


Yes.

First person is the easiest way to spot enemies. The right analog stick helps *alot* but peeking around corners is almost worthless in MGS3 because there's rarely a corner where it works (MGS1/2 environments were designed to make corner look effective. Lots of right-angle hallway, door-ways and such). The sonar/motion detector are only mildly useful as they mostly pick up critters and don't show you which way the enemies are facing.





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Pollyanna
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"Re(10):design issues" , posted Sat 22 Jan 14:28post reply

quote:

The system with the radios has the same problem. The game never tells you all of the silly rules about the radio, such as A) If you destroy one guard's radio, you render the others useless, or B) If you kill the only guard in the area with a radio, the other guards somehow miraculously have another one. Once you learn all of the ways to disable the guards, such as knocking out the radios and blowing up the little supply shacks, the guards are a joke, and Alert and Caution Modes end almost instantly.



WOW. I had no idea. Oh well, it's not like the game was hard, though I'm sure that would help on higher difficulties.





Ktallguy
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"Re(2):Re(10):design issues" , posted Sat 22 Jan 15:59post reply

That's funny about the peeking your head up thing...

I took that death pill a ZILLION times because I always wanted to get through an area without an alert, but later it gets harder, and I wanted to finish the game on normal first... so I ended up running and gunning a little bit...





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DarkZero
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"Re(7):design issues" , posted Sat 22 Jan 18:58post reply

quote:
Did people really use the first person view that much? I didn't. Between peaking around corners, looking around with the right analog stick, and using Sonar to essentially get the MGS1 radar back, I really only used first person view for shooting.

Yes.

First person is the easiest way to spot enemies. The right analog stick helps *alot* but peeking around corners is almost worthless in MGS3 because there's rarely a corner where it works (MGS1/2 environments were designed to make corner look effective. Lots of right-angle hallway, door-ways and such). The sonar/motion detector are only mildly useful as they mostly pick up critters and don't show you which way the enemies are facing.



Sonar in real life doesn't differentiate between what a target is or what direction it's moving in. Fortunately, the military has, in recent decades, devised a clever, if overly complex and high-tech, solution to this problem: Ping more than once. See that little blip that keeps moving along in a perfectly straight line when you ping five times in quick succession? That might not be a frog!

And again, if you're in FPV, why aren't you shooting? Even before you get the sniper rifle, you can pull off some pretty good long-range shots with the silenced Mk22. If it moves, shoot it. Whenever you're forced to use FPV because corner view, thermal goggles, or sonar just won't do it for you, you should be getting the added benefit of knocking a guard unconscious, or at least hitting him in the chest and setting him up for a CQC attack.





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"Re(10):design issues" , posted Tue 25 Jan 01:54post reply

quote:
I think the biggest problem with MGS3 was probably its documentation. The game and its manual tell you to wait out an alert, but that's not really what you're supposed to do.

This thread has been more helpful than the game instructions were. Because of what the game instructed me to do and memories of the never-ending streams of guards that would come out during alerts in previous MGS games I've been trying to play MGS3 in a much more difficult way than is necessary.





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"Re(6):design issues" , posted Wed 26 Jan 13:48post reply

quote:
The hardest boss under those conditions, surprisingly, was The Pain. Fighting The Pain with nothing but a tranquilizer pistol sucked, because you can't wail on him with an AK-47 during the three or so seconds that he doesn't have his bee armor on. I expect that The Boss will probably be the hardest though, because you can't CQC with the Tux on, and I relied entirely on CQC to beat her.

One thing I really liked about the game is the freedom you have during boss battles. For instance, I didn't use CQC at all on The Boss, and I only used TNT on Volgin (worked pretty well too). It's just so refreshing when in just about every other game out there there's just one way to fight a boss.

Of course, you have the same freedom outside of boss fights as well. I ended up using the knife to kill a LOT of soldiers (hit them when they're standing with a combo attack, crouch next to them when they fall down, and hit them again as they try to stand up; or if you get a chance just pull them in and slit their throat).

I also ended up wearing thermal goggles almost all the time by the end of the game. Not only do they make enemies easier to see, but the crosshairs in first-person view make it easier to aim even using a weapon without a scope. For instance, during the shagohod battles you can aim the rocket launcher and machine guns fairly well without having to zoom in. And as someone mentioned before, once you pick up a couple extra batteries running out of power is rarely a problem (you can also eat the glowing mushrooms to refill the battery some).

To me, having all this freedom has always been what makes the MGS games so fun. The fact that you have so many more options available to you in this one make it easily the best in the series.





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"Re(7):design issues" , posted Fri 28 Jan 08:43post reply

This game is awesome, for real. I realize it isn't for everybody but for my money it was the best game I've played all year.





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"Re(8):design issues" , posted Fri 28 Jan 14:03post reply

Oh yeah, the last couple of posts reminds me... anyone have CQC tips they can share? I had thought it only meant the questioning thing you can do with the knife, but I had heard of being able to counterattack and stuff like that... any tips? Are there disarms and stuff?





Mozex
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"Re(8):design issues" , posted Fri 28 Jan 15:21post reply

quote:
Sonar in real life doesn't differentiate between what a target is or what direction it's moving in.


I'm not saying that the sonar is unrealistic, I'm saying that it isn't as effictive as first person view.

I don't know why you like mentioning thermal googles so much, they're really only useful if you're in a dark area or looking for The End. They don't show you anything more than you can already see, they just slap you across the face instead of letting you miss it. I did end up using thermal's quite a bit because my eyes were really tired when I was playing and I didn't like focusing on the screen.

And yes, when in first person mode I usually ended up shooting something, but I had to go into first person to find out if there was something to shoot.





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DarkZero
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"Re(9):design issues" , posted Fri 28 Jan 15:23post reply

quote:
Oh yeah, the last couple of posts reminds me... anyone have CQC tips they can share? I had thought it only meant the questioning thing you can do with the knife, but I had heard of being able to counterattack and stuff like that... any tips? Are there disarms and stuff?



There's an FAQ at GameFAQs (CQC FAQ) that explains all of the controls. There are disarms, counterattacks, etc. but I only really found them useful while fighting the melee bosses. A lot of FAQs say that fighting Volgin and especially The Boss with CQC is absurdly hard, but I found it to be the easiest way to beat them. Once you figure out the right button maneuver, you can just stand around in the last boss fight, waiting for The Boss to come up and attack you, counter, punch and kick her to the ground, and then shoot her in the head with two or three tranq darts.

For normal enemies, the only CQC technique that I found useful (other than the basic interrogation and throat-slitting) was the human shield. Once you have a hostage, you can just go into first person view and shoot every other enemy around you in the head. You even have enough time to aim carefully and shoot through the eye-slits in the SWAT shields.





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"Don't know whether to put this in a new post?" , posted Sat 29 Jan 11:01:post reply

http://www.caltrops.com/pointy.php?action=viewPost&pid=11372

Well basically this bombMexico guy took all of our posts that made fun of his review and in turn, made fun of them.

Bascially his comments are either stuff that proves he doesn't like Metal Gear Solid's gameplay, or stuff that proves he's just a really immature person who has to insert the word 'gay' in his answers to make a point.

Sometimes he also just completely patronizes the poster too.

quote:

Because this game wasnít nearly tiresome enough, it forces players to make it more boring and time-consuming. Sometimes when Iím playing Splinter Cell and President Palmer tells me to do something cool that involves killing and pistol whipping, I like to make silly rules and make believe heís describing in detail how love can bloom on the battlefield. Also, instead of night vision goggles that go buh-WEEEEE when you put them on, Sam gets to wear a fucking crocodile head that totally isnít retarded and in fact makes total sense.

Is it really that long a wait for the next Splinter Cell to come out that anyone needs to be playing MGS3?



Dude, Splinter Cell is so damned EASY compared to MGS, first of all. If you really want your games to let you win, why don't you watch a movie. The thrill and fun of MGS is the unpredictability of the game... the AI isn't going to do the same thing twice, and you can't use simple trial and error tactics with convienently placed save points to make yourself feel like you're some 733t gamer. It's a hard game. It's not going to necessarily hand your fun on a platter, but in the end, if you face the challenge and win, it's much more fun and fulfilling than most cookie cutter games out there today.

So in closing, if you suck at MGS3, we're sorry that you suck. You have a right to rant about how much you dislike the game. And we have just as much a right to pick your flawed analysis apart bit by bit. Why don't you get good at the game, finish it, and then tell us what you think. You seem like you've been spoonfed your victories too long.

Edit: spelling...





"手前がやくぶそくなんだよ!"

[this message was edited by KTallguy on Sat 29 Jan 11:03]

ONSLAUGHT
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"NO" , posted Sat 29 Jan 11:17:post reply

quote:

So in closing, if you suck at MGS3, we're sorry that you suck. You have a right to rant about how much you dislike the game. And we have just as much a right to pick your flawed analysis apart bit by bit. Why don't you get good at the game, finish it, and then tell us what you think. You seem like you've been spoonfed your victories too long.


Give the guy a break, if he doesn't like MGS3, then let him be, if he thinks the game is crap, then more power to him. What if he call you faggots? You don't have to bring comments from another boeard you know, it's not like we're going to engage in an e-war or something. Read his messages, laugh at him, but don't bring that shit here waiting for a "Oh my god, he insulted the MMCafe, let's flame the bastard" kind of reaction...
But if you think your internet cock will be bigger if you reply to a message posted on another board, then do so.





[this message was edited by ONSLAUGHT on Sat 29 Jan 11:19]

sabo10
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"Re(1):NO" , posted Sat 29 Jan 11:25post reply

Hey guys, let's not make a big deal out of this and instead think about the pristine and sacred love shared between Satou Sei and Kubo Shiori.





ONSLAUGHT
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"Re(2):NO" , posted Sat 29 Jan 11:28post reply

quote:
Hey guys, let's not make a big deal out of this and instead think about the pristine and sacred love shared between Satou Sei and Kubo Shiori.


Your porn ways are sickening





DarkZero
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"Re(1):Don't know whether to put this in a new" , posted Sat 29 Jan 13:06post reply

quote:
Or at least with all the rage one can muster on a steady diet of pocky and non-movement.

I think this is as close as these introverts get to calling someone a FAGGOT who sukcs COCK and is GAY. Its not as if he doesnít have a point though.


So a guy who spends his time discussing video games on the internet is calling other people who spend their time discussing video games on the internet "overweight introverts".

quote:
From: Pot
To: Kettle
Subject: Color

You're black!

Signed,
Pot


I also like the way he quoted a lot of those paragraphs and pretended that we were actually responding to him, when the majority of them were just all of us talking to one another and didn't have anything to do with Caltrops. "Look Mom, my interweb site is controversial!"





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"Re(2):Don't know whether to put this in a new" , posted Sat 29 Jan 22:00post reply

quote:
Or at least with all the rage one can muster on a steady diet of pocky and non-movement.

I think this is as close as these introverts get to calling someone a FAGGOT who sukcs COCK and is GAY. Its not as if he doesnít have a point though.

So a guy who spends his time discussing video games on the internet is calling other people who spend their time discussing video games on the internet "overweight introverts".

From: Pot
To: Kettle
Subject: Color

You're black!

Signed,
Pot

I also like the way he quoted a lot of those paragraphs and pretended that we were actually responding to him, when the majority of them were just all of us talking to one another and didn't have anything to do with Caltrops. "Look Mom, my interweb site is controversial!"

what the hell is caltrops? and why the hell wasnt my post got quoted?
anyway, if he's got people convinced with his opinion, then whoopdeefreakydeedoo good for him. the world has more morons for him to convince.





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the empty room

KTallguy
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"Re(3):Don't know whether to put this in a new" , posted Sun 30 Jan 11:01post reply

I have no desire to start a forum war or anything like that ... I did mean what I said in my post, but what I did was also pretty childish, so I'm just going to leave it at that ...





"手前がやくぶそくなんだよ!"

Lupin
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"Re(1):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Sun 30 Jan 21:12:post reply

So you guys don't think screwing up a game sequal elevates games as an art form, and so people who are into art and not video games will know that MGS2 was art?


Also Iggy you didn't post a write up about your date with Exodus where he made you translate doujin soft did you? In France it is plesant and I heard they have minuettes, the Ballet Russe, and a crepe suzettes. Now some may have only seen the sights that you can see from Brooklyn Heights so they might want to read it. Actually I should have said a month ago when it was more relivant. Nevermind, unless you want to write a couple paragraphs with photos of France accompanying or 2ch style ascii 4koma





[this message was edited by Lupin on Sun 30 Jan 21:36]

D`Cloud
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"Re(2):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Sun 30 Jan 22:08post reply

quote:
So you guys don't think screwing up a game sequal elevates games as an art form, and so people who are into art and not video games will know that MGS2 was art?

screwed up what? the gmeplay is great, the music is great, the graphics is great, the story is the only debatable factor where not everyone likes it. if you prefer story<gameplay you can play the vr missions.





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Lupin
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"Re(3):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Sun 30 Jan 22:19post reply

quote:
the gmeplay is great, the music is great, the graphics is great, the story is the only debatable factor where not everyone likes it. if you prefer story<gameplay you can play the vr missions.

I like the story+gameplay more than just gameplay so I haven't bothered to play through 100% of the VR missions yet.





D`Cloud
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"Re(4):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Sun 30 Jan 22:34post reply

i visited the site above and browsed around. It's not exactly what i call a great site. It's biased and its like runned by 16 yrs old immature biggots.

it would be advisable to go to insert credit for much intelligble reviews.





Where Life is more terrible than death it is then the truest valor to dare to live.
the empty room

Iggy
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"Re(5):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Mon 31 Jan 02:12post reply

quote:
Also Iggy you didn't post a write up about your date with Exodus where he made you translate doujin soft did you?

what the... Who ? Where ? When ?

quote:
it would be advisable to go to insert credit for much intelligble reviews.


LOL

...
Ah shit he may be talking about me.
DAMN YOU EXODUS !





「とにかく、それは愛のムチよ。
愛しいXXX先生は君を愛弟子として愛するがゆえの厳しさよ」だって。

D`Cloud
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"Re(6):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Mon 31 Jan 03:19:post reply

you mean this gay porn game review? lol!!





Where Life is more terrible than death it is then the truest valor to dare to live.
the empty room

[this message was edited by D`Cloud on Mon 31 Jan 03:22]

Iggy
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"Re(7):MGS3 JP : Konami still hates you" , posted Mon 31 Jan 03:36post reply

You know, one day I'm going to sue that Iggy guy.





「とにかく、それは愛のムチよ。
愛しいXXX先生は君を愛弟子として愛するがゆえの厳しさよ」だって。

Juke Joint Jezebel
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"Re(1):NO" , posted Mon 31 Jan 14:30post reply

quote:
What if he call you faggots?

Yup, that was pretty sensitive.






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ONSLAUGHT
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"Re(2):NO" , posted Sat 5 Feb 03:21post reply

quote:
What if he call you faggots?
Yup, that was pretty sensitive.


Fuck you man, I know you're a Caltrops spy!