| Original message ([an error occurred while processing this directive] Views )[an error occurred while processing this directive]
|
Replies:
|
| EddyT 306th Post
 
Bronze Customer
 
    
|  "Re(2):Re: CFJ Speculation"
, posted Tue 15 Jun 02:48
quote:
I disagree. If you look at MvC2 there is a big "BS" factor in that game, but what makes MvC2 work is the fact that there is enough "BS" factor to go around. That is, there is so much "BS" that it cancels each other out. Now, if you have a smaller cast, the chances of producing enough "BS" is smaller becaues the cast is smaller.
In MvC2 there is a core group of characters that are only truly competitive, but that core group is enough to keep people satisfied. And that core group is dynamic enough to keep people entertained by their variety.
In 3S only 1/4 or 1/5 of the cast is really only good in real competition. In MvC2 1/5 or 1/6 of the cast is really only good in real competition. MvC2 wins cause they just have a much larger cast.
Having a smaller cast isn't gonna ensure that you will have an easier time making the game balanced IMO. It just gives a higher likelihood that there will be a tiny group of overpowered characters that drown everyone else out. So in fighting games, larger casts are better-- more BS to spread around.
ST, KOF 98 and SS2 are freakish anomalies of game balance where nearly everything is cool. ST has the advantage being the 5th revision of the same game. But hey, y ou can't revise every game 5 times.
I thought KOF '98 was a bit imbalanced with grapplers ruling that game. It was easy to end combos with throws, and they were really hard to counter.
I'm thinking MvC2 and 3S are not good examples, because the balance in later Capcom games weren't as solid as earlier games like ST and Vampire Savior. But it's really debatable... I was just merely saying that more characters would make it more difficult for game designers to balance out a fighter.
Although it'd be nice for a company to really work out kinks with every single character, when that number balloons up to 40-50 characters, it's much more difficult to playtest them all thorougly.
With a game like 3S, I've seen people actually do well competitively with mid or lower tier characters like Necro, Remy, Oro, Yang, Elena, Urien and Ibuki. It's not considered near-impossible to win with these characters against top-tier, although it's still very difficult.
In MvC2, it seems that mid-to-low tier characters are much bigger underdogs. Mainly because of low stamina and/or inability to counter certain high-priority moves or assist attacks, let alone provide them. With the 3-on-3 fighting under a short time limit, it makes it harder to use a lower-tier person without risking a match. But I think the mismatch problems are because of the way the game was built. It could be attributed to the sheer mass of selectable characters, though. Take for example, Jill or Hayato. They were extremely fun to play, but there's no way they can survive constant Cable ticking or Doom or Storm assist lockdowns.
I'm not disputing that it's impossible to make a balanced game with 40-50 characters, but it's not as likely. That's all I was saying... it was more of a statistical statement.
|
| Undead Fred 1699th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
 
    
    
  
| "Re(2):Re: CFJ Speculation" , posted Tue 15 Jun 12:22
quote:
I don't think having more characters would necessarily be a good thing for a fighter. It always seems that there's a bigger chance the game will be even more unbalanced in terms of gameplay issues if there's more characters to keep track of.
I disagree. If you look at MvC2 there is a big "BS" factor in that game, but what makes MvC2 work is the fact that there is enough "BS" factor to go around. That is, there is so much "BS" that it cancels each other out. Now, if you have a smaller cast, the chances of producing enough "BS" is smaller becaues the cast is smaller.
In MvC2 there is a core group of characters that are only truly competitive, but that core group is enough to keep people satisfied. And that core group is dynamic enough to keep people entertained by their variety.
In 3S only 1/4 or 1/5 of the cast is really only good in real competition. In MvC2 1/5 or 1/6 of the cast is really only good in real competition. MvC2 wins cause they just have a much larger cast.
Having a smaller cast isn't gonna ensure that you will have an easier time making the game balanced IMO. It just gives a higher likelihood that there will be a tiny group of overpowered characters that drown everyone else out. So in fighting games, larger casts are better-- more BS to spread around.
ST, KOF 98 and SS2 are freakish anomalies of game balance where nearly everything is cool. ST has the advantage being the 5th revision of the same game. But hey, y ou can't revise every game 5 times.
Yeah, that's why I'm wanting a big roster for Fighting Jam... I want the old-school one character at a time format with my favorite characters all jumbled together. I want a game with Felicia in it that won't have stuff flying everywhere the whole time. I liked MvC2's roster a lot, but I hated everything else about the game. No story whatsoever, spastic striker crap jumping in contantly, three fighters on each team with 1.5 fighter's worth of time to beat them in, and those lame, uninteresting backgrounds. I want a Fighting Jam with a large roster (as it's been said before, they're going to be 90% recycled sprites, anyway) but without MvC2's madness. Bleh. MvC1 was great, and so was XvS and all of those other cross-over games, but aside from MvC2's roster, all of the depth was sucked out and the pace was sent into overdrive. Not good.
CAPCOM FIGHTING JAM MUST RIGHT ALL OF MVC2'S WRONGS!!!
|
| Undead Fred 1712th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(7):Re: CFJ Speculation" , posted Wed 16 Jun 14:29
quote:
True, C seems like something of a trick question. I'm not sure it's possible to make a game that fully pleases the hardcore since they wouldn't be hardcore if they didn't sit around and nitpick every little detail in a game. That leaves Capcom in a Catch-22 situation where all they can do is publish a game that will be disliked by everyone for a whole host of reasons but life isn't always fair.
I basically just look for new Capcom fighters for the sake of using the characters I like against new and old characters in new environments. You know, like Rolento with a new move and a tweak in some new batch of backgrounds and character art and stuff. I do want to see a new character here and there, though. I don't think that's too much to ask.
So, basically, I'm just happy I've got Felicia and Sakura together in a game, and a game that's apparently not going to be like that massive seizure called MvC2. If they add just about all of their old sprites, then I'm happy with that, too. It is called "Capcom Fighting JAM," after all... I'd like to see a few others make it to the game, at least. I think it would be awesome if the Master of Unocking would make another appearance, too.
|
|
|
...MESSATSU? 
