Character Pondering: Gill SF3 - http://www.mmcafe.com/ Forums

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ZamIAm

1296th Post

Red Carpet Executive Member

"Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 10:20

Let me start this off by let you know that NO I don't have a personal life...

I've been pondering something concerning Gill's super, Resurrection. Though it seems cheap (okay, it is...) it actually doesn't seem all that "impossible" in a VG/comic sense. Any time it is used is when he's been fought in relatively normal means (you know: punches, kicks, some ki here and there). The closest thing to being abnormal is the Shungokusatsu and that targets the soul, not the body. It can, and HAS, been survived by "normal" characters. That said, it seems like his so called Resurrection isn't much more than a glorified display of regenerative properties which isn't a big deal. Many characters with healing abilities can regenerate entire organs and his whole organization has tons of genetic manipulation based technology. All that said, I'm leaning more toward thinking that Urien's ending is true (note: for those who don't know, Urien trapped Gill in a tank and blew him up) since it's one of the few ways Gill can be killed and it's convenient since I don't think that Capcom is going to use Gill again in another SF game.

Okay, discuss...

We all know that Sakura and Karin didn't enter the SF3 tourney because underneath the tights

they're duct taped to Chun's legs...

Replies:

EddyT

296th Post

Copper Customer

"Re(1):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 10:22

Gill = WORST. ENDBOSS. EVER.

Toxico

3661th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Get set...." , posted Wed 2 Jun 10:39

Well, I have always thought of Gill's resurection super not as a a way of regenate his body or healing his wounds, but as one "true last effort" and using "every bit of determination" to keep on fighting; and that is expresed on having his life bar refilled ;P.

Then again, maybe capcom doesn't give ditto about these things.

Tekkenshu -> Los movimientos que nunca existieron y siempre quisistes tener!

threesixtee

813th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member+

"Re(1):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 10:41

quote:
The closest thing to being abnormal is the Shungokusatsu and that targets the soul, not the body. It can, and HAS, been survived by "normal" characters.

it targets the soul? but in the A3 gen vs. akuma intro, gen cleary physically blocks each hit of the shungokusatsu.

Valen
10th Post

New Customer

"Re(2):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 10:58

quote:

it targets the soul? but in the A3 gen vs. akuma intro, gen cleary physically blocks each hit of the shungokusatsu.

LOL Man... Thank you for good laught...

Once you go black

you'll never come back!!!!

Luisinan

914th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member++

"Re(1):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 11:43

Zam, did you get enough sleep before posting this? I don't get it. What exact point are you trying to make about Ressurection?

Its an odd super for an SF game but it fits with Gill's MO and background. Heck, SF3 had a lot of 'untraditional' supers (untraditional for an SF game that is). Here's a list

first unblockable fireball super. Ryu/Denjin
first non-auto, multi-attempt and free movement grab super. Oro
first summonable objects super. Oro
first juggable energy ball/object super. Oro, later Urien too
first 'raging storm' super. Gouki
first counter super. Remy
first opponent mimicry super. Twelve
first strength bonus super. Makoto
first anti-air grab super that can be done on 'downed' opponents. Hugo

Don't forget the Elena also has a healing super too. THere might be more firsts, feel free to add to the list (or dispute it!)

Thats one of the things I really liked about SF3 though, was the variety in attacks. Dudly's rose and counter, cool stuff. Alex's mobile grabs and grapples. Everyone was equipped with a decent guessing game. The Alpha series used more traditional attacks, although it did have its share of firsts too. I remember I tripped out when I discovered Gen's 'countdown' super. I got all excited cause i thought I had known everything about A2 at the time.

Bored? "160"

Spoon

401th Post

Gold Customer

"Re(1):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 11:56

quote:
it actually doesn't seem all that "impossible" in a VG/comic sense.

Nothing is.

Undead Fred

1611th Post

Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member

"Re(1):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 12:06

quote:
Let me start this off by let you know that NO I don't have a personal life...

I've been pondering something concerning Gill's super, Resurrection. Though it seems cheap (okay, it is...) it actually doesn't seem all that "impossible" in a VG/comic sense. Any time it is used is when he's been fought in relatively normal means (you know: punches, kicks, some ki here and there). The closest thing to being abnormal is the Shungokusatsu and that targets the soul, not the body. It can, and HAS, been survived by "normal" characters. That said, it seems like his so called Resurrection isn't much more than a glorified display of regenerative properties which isn't a big deal. Many characters with healing abilities can regenerate entire organs and his whole organization has tons of genetic manipulation based technology. All that said, I'm leaning more toward thinking that Urien's ending is true (note: for those who don't know, Urien trapped Gill in a tank and blew him up) since it's one of the few ways Gill can be killed and it's convenient since I don't think that Capcom is going to use Gill again in another SF game.

Okay, discuss...

Yeah, I didn't really find any issues with Gill's super, either... he's supposed to be this godlike character, right? Plus, he's in a game where people are throwing fireballs and stuff, so I have already bought that idea, so why wouldn't energy regeneration be any more far-fetched than throwing fireballs? The only issue that I can see with it is how cheap it is. Personally, I don't think it's too bad. Save a super for him and let it go when you "finish" him the first time... he'll only get back like, half of his energy at the most. Of course, you have to pick the right super to use against him, but it works.

BLAGGO

Jigsaw
174th Post

Regular Customer

"Re(2):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 12:16

quote:
Gill = WORST. ENDBOSS. EVER.

IMO Gill made a vastly better end boss than Vega did in SF2... Actually, Gill is probably one of my favourite boss characters ever. :)

Toxico

3664th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(3):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 12:52

quote:
Gill = WORST. ENDBOSS. EVER.

IMO Gill made a vastly better end boss than Vega did in SF2...

Well, IMO Gill made a vastly better end boss than Vega did in SFZ...

Tekkenshu -> Los movimientos que nunca existieron y siempre quisistes tener!

EddyT

297th Post

Copper Customer

"Re(4):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 13:17

quote:
Gill = WORST. ENDBOSS. EVER.

IMO Gill made a vastly better end boss than Vega did in SF2...

Well, IMO Gill made a vastly better end boss than Vega did in SFZ...

You mean SFZ Buffalo Bison? I liked the more svelte SF2/CVS Vega/Bison myself.

You... you guys don't like Vega? I thought he was cool. He has big intimidating teeth... like Tony Robbins.

Grahf
90th Post

Occasional Customer

"Re(5):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 13:25

quote:
Well, IMO Gill made a vastly better end boss than Vega did in SFZ...

You mean SFZ Buffalo Bison? I liked the more svelte SF2/CVS Vega/Bison myself.

Amen to that, Fat Bison sucks.

quote:
You... you guys don't like Vega? I thought he was cool. He has big intimidating teeth... like Tony Robbins.

TONY ROBBINS HUNGRY!!!

Jigsaw
175th Post

Regular Customer

"Re(6):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 13:31

Zero Vega < SF2 Vega < Gill

Or, well, I did like the actual boss fight in Z3. But design wise, I hate Fat Vega, and think his SF2 and CvS appearance is much cooler. Still, I prefer Gill. :)

Toxico

3666th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(5):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 13:36

quote:
You mean SFZ Buffalo Bison? I liked the more svelte SF2/CVS Vega/Bison myself.

Just like you, I like the "athletic" theme Vega, but his fat version can bite a shoe anytime he wants to ;P

For the record, the police force in my country is like a real life Vega, but with the green color:

http://www.fotomundo.com/galeria/argentinas/becquer/bec07.jpg

http://adintpolcol.tripod.com/UChile.html

http://www.directemar.cl/noticias/2003/09/3009cas_2/02.jpg

I have always taken this as a sign of Shadow Loo trying to obstruct my evil schemes for world domination.

Tekkenshu -> Los movimientos que nunca existieron y siempre quisistes tener!

crazymike

912th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member++

"Re(6):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 15:57

Well what doesn't make sense is how the move is called resurrection, yet nobody ever dies when they lose a fight in SF unless its part of the ending.

Hungrywolf

2810th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(3):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Wed 2 Jun 17:12

quote:
Gill = WORST. ENDBOSS. EVER.

IMO Gill made a vastly better end boss than Vega did in SF2... Actually, Gill is probably one of my favourite boss characters ever. :)

I agree, I really like Gill. I was disappointed he wasn't in CvS2.

"no again my apoligizes for anyone i offend!!!!!"
Hungry Like the Wolf

Krzyzewski Man

746th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member+

"Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Wed 2 Jun 21:08

From what I've heard, the way Gen survived the ShunGokuSatsu is not just by being badass enough to block it. He used ultra-high-level meditation techniques to empty his mind of impurity. See, this is the official method of the ShunGokuSatsu: Akuma literally drags himself and his opponent into Hell (probably a Buddhist hell), whereupon demons attack both fighters. However, demons are mostly attracted to impure thought and negative thought (not sin so much as lower animalistic thought, the kind that keeps you from enlightenment, I think) which is why M. Bison/Vega was absolutely slaughtered by the move, his Psycho Power being the manipulation of that negative mental energy. Gen just made his mind clear to avoid it. I think Akuma is practically always in that mindset - he's the pure Buddhist warrior ideal, with almost no emotion, just the enlightened state of mind.

That being said, the ShunGokuSatsu, from what I understand, did kill Gill, and Gill did resurrect himself. Gill is basically a god - manmade, but a god. He has not only the power to destroy but the power to create - he manifests and un-manifests fire and ice, among other things. And he really does just resurrect himself after he dies, another godlike ability. That said, he's not completely invincible, more like a Greek god (who were very fallible) or a Norse god (who could be killed and in fact are all destined to die). He's not the awesome unknowable entity that is the Judeo-Christian God. But he does register extremely high on Will Smith's Weird-Shit-O-Meter, suffice it to say.

So, no, I don't have a life either. But I've got a good job at Back Yard Burger! Shut the hell up, pride!

The resident lapsed Catholic progressive absurdist.

Luisinan

917th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member++

"Re(1):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Wed 2 Jun 21:27

What K-man said is about the SGS is what I've also heard. You really broke down the SGS and Gill very well too.

I also never saw Akuma as the ultimate Buddhist warrior but it makes perfect sense. That makes a real awsome twist and gives depth to that character because bad guys aren't supposed to have enlightment and a clear mind. Yeah, I know Akuma is not a bad guy but according to traditional western standards he is (afterall, he is a murderer). He's a very simple character, yet has this cool twist I had never seen before. He literally is Ryu gone bad.

Bored? "160"

OYashiroForever

769th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member+

"Re(2):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Wed 2 Jun 22:06

Yeah... way too much time on your hands.

But yes, Raul Julia Bison < Pilsbury Dough Bison < CvS2/SF2 Lanky Bison < Gill.

I can never understand why everyone hates Gill so much. Unless it's the diaper/thong thing... that is a little creepy. But as a boss (particularly in 3S), I find that he was just difficult enough to make things interesting without being boring-difficult (non-KoF SNK bosses) or pitifully easy (Vs. games bosses). Plus I liked his little druid follower guys.

Hmmm.... <goes to play 3S>

"Only two things are infinite

the universe and human stupidity

and I'm not sure about the former."

"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs

I see through you."

VManOfMana

456th Post

Gold Customer

"Re(3):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Wed 2 Jun 22:34

Kanna > all other bosess

Not considering her AI glitch, that is.

She is hard without being SNK-retarded-hard, actually changes her strategy during the same round, does not rely on a single move to beat you, and does not rely on reaction AI.

Yeah, out of topic.

Jabel D. Morales - VMan of Mana.
http://vman.animecafe.net/

"Tameraeba makeyo!"

Spoon

411th Post

Gold Customer

"Re(3):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Wed 2 Jun 23:24

quote:
Unless it's the diaper/thong thing...

When Samurai Jack stripes down to his thong and blindfolds himself, we say that's "badass".

When a guy who's name is an anagram of urine wears it, everyone calls it a joke.

I suppose people aren't going to josh you about your bi-colored pelvic region when you can shoot fireballs at them...

Iggy

3460th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(1):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Wed 2 Jun 23:55

quote:
pure Buddhist warrior ideal

(sigh)

quote:
I also never saw Akuma as the ultimate Buddhist warrior but it makes perfect sense.

(long sigh)

The only thing I have to say on the subject is that Corinne would have been a nice attempt at the sexy secretary cliché if she hadn't had a horseshit on the head.

わかった
しんでも...いきてかえる

ZamIAm

1297th Post

Red Carpet Executive Member

"urien's ending..." , posted Thu 3 Jun 05:49

quote:
Zam, did you get enough sleep before posting this? I don't get it. What exact point are you trying to make about Ressurection?

I was actually trying to lean more toward arguing Urien's ending as "true" since I think it is one of the few ways Gill can be killed within the story. It's one of the few endings in the game to even deal with Gill at all. Urien seems to have more evil tendencies while Gill is just deranged and wants to part the sea and stuff. Blame Capcom for not official stating the ending as true or not.

BTW, I came up with this post a month ago but was too lazy to type it until now...

We all know that Sakura and Karin didn't enter the SF3 tourney because underneath the tights

they're duct taped to Chun's legs...

Burning Kyo

2111th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(1):Character Pondering: Gill SF3" , posted Thu 3 Jun 07:34

IMO Gill is not the worst boss, but it's sure there's many better bosses.

Besides, who never dream of a world in red & blue and where everybody wearing a thong !? (^__^)

[Live fast // Die young]

Krzyzewski Man

748th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member+

"Re(2):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Thu 3 Jun 11:31

quote:
pure Buddhist warrior ideal
(sigh)
I also never saw Akuma as the ultimate Buddhist warrior but it makes perfect sense.
(long sigh)

The only thing I have to say on the subject is that Corinne would have been a nice attempt at the sexy secretary cliché if she hadn't had a horseshit on the head.

...

NANIIIIIIII?!

The resident lapsed Catholic progressive absurdist.

Sano

644th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member

"Re(3):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Thu 3 Jun 11:52

As far as Gill dying, Capcom is really bad with killing people off beyond a shadow of a doubt anyway.

Nash - No corpse.
Chun-Li's Dad - No corpse.
Rose - Don't let me get started on her off screen death.
Guy - Is he dead? Is he alive? Why does Capcom state that Maki is officially looking for him???
Vega - Dead beyond a shadow of a doubt, but even then people still think he may return in Cammy's body and it's popular Internet theory that he escaped to the Megaman world somehow as a spirit/virus and is Sigma...
Megaman - We still don't know beyond a shadow of a doubt if Zero killed him or whatever happened to him, even if he's not from SF.

So I tend to believe that Gill is still alive. I don't need to find out about anymore questionable deaths in SF... Urien most likely detroyed a Capsule that has DNA used to inject it into future Gills. Gill in the games was a Fighter who was converted to look like that (Red/Blue, insert all of his powers here) after winning a Tourney with lots of other fighters including Urien who's also been spliced.

Luisinan

919th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member++

"Re(4):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Thu 3 Jun 12:11

quote:

Megaman - We still don't know beyond a shadow of a doubt if Zero killed him or whatever happened to him, even if he's not from SF.

[Excited Fanboy Mode + Wannabe Rapper Mode]

It would be so cool if in the last Megaman X game, the original Megaman reappeared and started tearing $#!t up. Ha ha ha. With even ghost reappearances of Light, Wily and Cossack. Now thats a crossover fight.

Megaman vs Zero. X vs Bass. With winner getting a chance to fight Protoman, who of course, just gives them a beat down. Only problem though, is that Megaman doesn't have free will like the rest of the bots so he'd have to be reprogrammed.

I want Zero to go back to his old, dirty dog ways. And I want Megaman to lose and finally just beat down the humans and the next gen robots.

[End Wacky Modes]

Bored? "160"

Undead Fred

1629th Post

Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member

"Re(4):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Sun 6 Jun 13:27

quote:
Nash - No corpse.

Is Nash Charlie from the SFA series? If so, yeah. He died in every single Alpha game, but was right there again in the next one. Either his endings aren't real or HE IS ZOMBY!!!!!!

Sano

657th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member

"Re(5):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Sun 6 Jun 13:40

quote:
Nash - No corpse.Is Nash Charlie from the SFA series? If so, yeah. He died in every single Alpha game, but was right there again in the next one. Either his endings aren't real or HE IS ZOMBY!!!!!!

Nash's real death only happens in Street Fighter Zero 3(Guile's ending.) Street Fighter Zero 2 replaces Street Fighter Zero 1 and during SFZ2, Nash most likely met Chun-Li and stuff after Chun-Li faced Vega and her ending happened, but Nash never reached Vega(Dictator) during SFZ2. I don't know why Capcom won't produce a corpse for Chun-Li's dad, but I think they don't want to dissapoint Nash fans and want to leave his 'death' open, so much so that Chun-Li thinks he may still be alive at the end of SFZ3. Course she still thinks her dad may still be alive, but at least both Guile and Chun-Li have seemed to come to terms that both are prolly dead.

Capcom poked fun at the whole thing with Nash's SFZ3 ending. And it's really funny how the US SF Comic made fun of the whole thing making it seemed like Nash died three times. Ironically no corpse their either.

Kaepora

359th Post

Silver Customer

"Re(6):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Sun 6 Jun 14:33

quote:
Capcom poked fun at the whole thing with Nash's SFZ3 ending. And it's really funny how the US SF Comic made fun of the whole thing making it seemed like Nash died three times. Ironically no corpse their either.

Cannon Spike jokes around with the idea as well.

Undead Fred

1630th Post

Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member

"Re(6):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Sun 6 Jun 16:07

quote:
I don't know why Capcom won't produce a corpse for Chun-Li's dad, but I think they don't want to dissapoint Nash fans and want to leave his 'death' open, so much so that Chun-Li thinks he may still be alive at the end of SFZ3. Course she still thinks her dad may still be alive, but at least both Guile and Chun-Li have seemed to come to terms that both are prolly dead.

I just assumed Chun-Li's dad's death had happened a long time ago, so that's why we never see his body. We got to see him fall down an elevator shaft (onto some bullets) in the SF anime, so I guess that's the closest we'll get.

Sano

662th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member

"Re(7):Akuma and Gill stuff" , posted Mon 7 Jun 09:09

Slight Edit on my earlier Post. After checking TiamatRoar's SF Plot Guide, no one knows exactly what Nash did during SFZ2. He is the only SFZ2 character that is completly unaccounted for. Maybe he does meet Chun-Li during that game, or maybe that happens right before SFZ3. It's speculation on my part that he meets her during SFZ2 to rationalize what he did during SFZ2, but it's not official, just my speculation with only guess work to back it up.