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| DKW 258th Post
 
Copper Customer
    
|  "Re(10):Need info about Samurai Spirits"
, posted Fri 28 May 22:00
It's been a long time since I've tackled this subject, but here goes:
Haohmaru - Personality based loosely on Musashi; his "forsaking everything for the pursuit of the sword" endings in 1 and 2 are based on Musashi's actual worldview. Actual character design based almost entirely on Ryu from Street Fighter; seems to have borrowed some of his personality as well (loves to fight, confident in his strength, etc.).
Ukyo Tachibana - Based kinda-sorta on Genryu something-something, including his signature "Swallow Slice". Back-to-the-enemy stance based on Zato-ichi, the legendary blind swordsman. Standard "bishonen" fighting game character in all other aspects.
Gen-an Shiranui - A bakemono (not an oni or tengu), a Japanese goblinoid. No historical equivalent.
Hanzo Hattori, Jubei Yagyu, Amakusa - As mentioned earlier, these were all real people, and their destinies were probably as intertwined in reality as they are in the game.
Galford - Your basic "American clone" a la Ken Masters. No history.
Earthquake - A generic Texan killer, albeit enormous. Design probably based on Heart from Fist of the North Star.
Charlotte - Based a little on the classic manga Rose of Versailles, but really just a generic fighting game Frenchie (cf. King, Jean, Janne, etc.).
Nakoruru - The Dead or Alive character.  Seriously, she's there because SNK needed a pretty lady, nothing more. She's an Ainu; no ties to real life otherwise.
Wan-fu - A highly fictionalized character based on China's Three Kingdom's period. No definite historical precedent.
Kyoshiro Senryo - VERY loosely based on a redhead samurai with a lecherous streak (who wasn't nearly seven feet tall, didn't use a naginata, and didn't perform Kabuki).
Genjuro Kibagami - Generic fighting game bad-a-word. His entire style is based on hanafuda.
Tam Tam and Cham Cham - Pastiches of various Indian races.
Shizumaru Hisame - The big-eyed kid with a dark legacy...what more do you need to know?
Basara - This is just speculation, but I think he's what's known as a "spirit body". Someone who's dead, but able to create a tenuous physical manifestation until he/she has completed some vital task.
Rimururu - Nakoruru 2.0. 
Dunno about Neinhalt Seiger or the Kafuins. Possessed Mizuki Rashojin and Zankuro Minazauki are just generic psycho killer bosses.
homepage - http://home.hawaii.rr.com/dkwff
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| Saiki
73th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):Re(10):Need info about Samurai Spirits" , posted Fri 28 May 22:12
quote:
Actual character design based almost entirely on Ryu from Street Fighter;
Um no.......
quote:
Hanzo Hattori, Jubei Yagyu, Amakusa - As mentioned earlier, these were all real people, and their destinies were probably as intertwined in reality as they are in the game.
The Amakusa in the game is the actual historical Amakusa that came back to life. But Hanzo and Jubei are not the historical Hanzo and Jubei. The real historical Jubei is the son of Yagyu Munenori. The Jubei in the game serves Munenori. Same with Hanzo, the real historical Hanzo isn't even born yet
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Charlotte - Based a little on the classic manga Rose of Versailles,
A little?????? You mean everything from the looks and everything.....yea, just a little
quote:
Kyoshiro Senryo - VERY loosely based on a redhead samurai with a lecherous streak (who wasn't nearly seven feet tall, didn't use a naginata, and didn't perform Kabuki).
If I'm not mistaken, Kyoshiro is based off of a certain character from a novel
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| DKW 259th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(1):Need info about Samurai Spirits" , posted Mon 31 May 16:12
Saiki - I know that the in-game personas of Hanzo Hattori and Jubei Yagyu are different from their historical counterparts. They're ALL like that. (Jubei actually serves the Tokugawa Shogunate; I've never heard a reference to anyone named "Munenori" in any of the games.)
Charlotte's story is vastly different than anything I remember from Rose of Versailles. Basically, she's a beefy French lady, she's on a mission, and she's good with a sword, and that's as far as any connection with RoV goes. Charlotte is no more Oscar than Earthquake is Heart.
As for Haohmaru...look at him, for crissake. The gi. The stances. Some of the kicks. The complete dedication to the fight. Oh yeah, fireball-uppercut. There was one designer who worked on Street Fighter 2 who later moved to SNK, so it's not much of a stretch to say that Haohmaru is Ryu-inspired.
Well, come to think of it, more like Ryo Sakazaki. But same diff.
Alucard - Dang, completely forgot about the ninja brothers. Hmm. Other than some obscure god of fire/god of water mythology, I can't really point to any historical precedent. Opposing elements is a fairly common theme in fighting games, so it's not like they need one, anyway.
homepage - http://home.hawaii.rr.com/dkwff
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| Undead Fred 1669th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
 
    
    
   
| "Re(1):Basara...." , posted Fri 11 Jun 14:58
quote:
Charlotte - Based a little on the classic manga Rose of Versailles, but really just a generic fighting game Frenchie (cf. King, Jean, Janne, etc.).
Um... I thought King was BRITISH, actually... I'd have to check (or just wait for someone here to correct me).
And no, I really don't see any resemblance between Haohmaru and Ryu other than "they're both the lead characters, they both have a mostly white gi and are both from Japan." Except Haohmaru uses a sword, has different moves, a different personality, comes from a different time period, an almost entirely different costume, and so on and so on. Sorry, I'm not seeing any connection between the two.
quote:
I'm asking again, but I've red somewhere I can't find anymore that Basara is inspired from a character of Ninja Scroll. Do you have info about it ?
well, there are two hints here .-
+ The character from Ninja scroll moves between shadows and uses a star shaped weapon
+ The Disign team of Samurai Spirits 2 took a big roll on the Ninja scroll movie.
Yeah, I had always wondered that. I remember playing SS3 and watching Ninja Scroll in the same summer or whenever it was years ago and wondering if the guy that did the art direction for SS3 did Ninja Scroll, but I had heard that the two were unrelated. But there are several characters that seem to have some relationship to the SS series, and they almost had similar designs... There was the old man that looked like Kafuin Nicotine, there was the Basara-like guy, I noticed what looked like Jubei Yagyu in the Koga ninja meeting toward the beginning (same haircut, and same eyepatch), the blind Ukyo-like guy in the bamboo forest, the beehive guy sort of reminded me of Gen-an, and the guy with the electric wires sort of reminded me of Amakusa. Some are more similar to SS characters than others, but I felt there was a definite influence on one source or the other. Maybe that's just me, though.
As far as which characters were based on an actual historical figure or not, I've always just heard of Jubei and Hanzo being "real", but I was surprised to hear about Amakusa. As far as timeline stuff goes, I'm not too sure it really matters in SS? I mean, I was having a hard time believing Earthquake fitting in with the rest of the characters... as someone mentioned, I remembered his stage featuring a train or something, too... Galford's stage could possibly be believable, but I thought it looked more like it was maybe 1800's or early 1900's... but it has been a long time since I've seen it, so I can be for sure. I just remember the US stages seemed a little out of the proper time line.
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| Undead Fred 1673th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(3):Basara...." , posted Sat 12 Jun 17:50
quote:
Well, undead fred, here are some pointers.-
King is really french.
The team that took part in ninja scroll was the design team of SS2
And for SS characters fitting in true story we got many inconsistences..... For example we got that Earthquake just can't be; because on that period they wheren't any rail ways on texas, and he steals trains XD
Ahhh, okay. Man, where did I hear that King was British, then? Is she French, but lived in Britain, or did I just get that part wrong?
So, did characters like Basara actually come from Ninja Scroll, or did the same SS2/ Ninja Scroll team work on SS3, or what?
As far as the characters go, I was basically trying to say that I'm sure SS's Jubei Yagyu could be the "real Jubei Yagyu" and so on, despite the fact that he was from 100 years before or after other historically-based characters just because the time period kind of seems to be covering more than just one particular year... You know what I'm trying to say. It doesn't really seem to matter that a character is 100 years or a bit more out of date because the timelines of the different countries don't really seem to match.
By the way, wasn't Seiger's stage set in a knight's court or something?? Was that reasonable for Germany at that time period? I don't know much about Germany's history during that time, so I don't know for sure. (that stage WAS in Germany, right?)
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| Iggy 3541th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
  
| "conclusion" , posted Sun 13 Jun 00:45
Frankly... Who cares ? I mean, the characters are inspired by historical figures or anime or manga. Yes, we know that. You can also say that ALL the characters of ALL videogames and anime and manga and movies and novels are inspired by other sources, things the creators have read, things they have seen, etc. As long it's only inspiration and not ripoff like K9999, what's the point to go and see what the fathers of the character looked/read when they created him/her ?
What makes an inspired character/story/etc is all the details you create to put around the things you (maybe without even noticing it) borrow or pay hommage to.
Are you going to go ask the SF3 designer which manga he read when he was in school that indirectly inspired him to create Oro or Twelve ? And then go find the authors of those sources to see what inspired them ?
"Inspiration threads" like this always have discretly the subtext "because the guys who made these character couldn't come with a totally original character", even if you don't mean it. And for the SS series, this is definitely not appropriate.
What was Aragon saying ? Something amongst the line of "everybody borrow, some are just more honests than others".
これだけは主張しておく魂の叫び：
わたくしカエルの肛門にストローさしたり爆竹つっこんだりした経験はありません。
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| Toxico 3710th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Ha, ha, ha.... I will not perish...."
, posted Sun 13 Jun 08:06
Okay, about the ninja scroll thing I read this firstly in Samurai Shodown II TAPFAQ
Version 8.1 12/27/95 Compiled By Shawn Holmes and Edited By Scott Fujimoto. It can be found in Gamefaqs and I have confirmed this with many other sources:
--> Jubei Ninja Chronicles. No, that's not the same Jubei as in SS (or FF, for that matter!). But the SS character designers also worked on this anime movie. Manga Entertainment has released this subbed and dubbed under the name, "Ninja Scroll."
Well, about the Basara thing -> you could argue that the designer used some of the ideas first for the character in Ninja Scroll and then used the rest of the concept in SSIII
Sieger Stage was in Prusia.... And if I'm not mistaken Prusia didn't even existed then, and if it did; they never have any knight orders.
About King -> I have followed her storyline.... From before she became a tier character in KoF ;P and I have found nothing that connects her with England. Except her 94' KoF team, and no one on that team was from England. KoF could argue that she has one of her 'Illusion Bar' on England but if you heed the changes that KoF storyline does to FF/AoF/Garou and any other non KoF native character you should be shoot down mercilessly and swiftly.
And for the record I agree with Iggy here, there is no point to put such a huge importance on character precedence; of course that it's a nice cultural fact that can be fun to bring out now and them; but don't give it too many importance.... It's not that relevant after all.
Tekkenshu -> Los movimientos que nunca existieron y siempre quisistes tener!
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| Undead Fred 1684th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(1):conclusion" , posted Sun 13 Jun 12:35
quote:
Frankly... Who cares ? I mean, the characters are inspired by historical figures or anime or manga. Yes, we know that. You can also say that ALL the characters of ALL videogames and anime and manga and movies and novels are inspired by other sources, things the creators have read, things they have seen, etc. As long it's only inspiration and not ripoff like K9999, what's the point to go and see what the fathers of the character looked/read when they created him/her ?
What makes an inspired character/story/etc is all the details you create to put around the things you (maybe without even noticing it) borrow or pay hommage to.
Are you going to go ask the SF3 designer which manga he read when he was in school that indirectly inspired him to create Oro or Twelve ? And then go find the authors of those sources to see what inspired them ?
"Inspiration threads" like this always have discretly the subtext "because the guys who made these character couldn't come with a totally original character", even if you don't mean it. And for the SS series, this is definitely not appropriate.
What was Aragon saying ? Something amongst the line of "everybody borrow, some are just more honests than others".
Man, I don't know why people had to get defensive here... Personally, I wasn't interested in arguing, I just wanted to discuss the roots of the characters from one of my all-time favorite fighting games. I don't know about anyone else, but I thought it was interesting to talk about. I love the SS series, and I love the SS characters. Just because some other character had INSPIRED any particular character's design doesn't mean that the SNK employees are hacks because a couple of their characters were inspired instead of 120% original. Artists reference and take inspiration from other sources all the time. Nothing wrong with that. I thought it was interesting to discuss that stuff here.
quote:
About King -> I have followed her storyline.... From before she became a tier character in KoF ;P and I have found nothing that connects her with England. Except her 94' KoF team, and no one on that team was from England. KoF could argue that she has one of her 'Illusion Bar' on England but if you heed the changes that KoF storyline does to FF/AoF/Garou and any other non KoF native character you should be shoot down mercilessly and swiftly.
Ah, okay. I'm not sure where I heard that she had some connection to Britain, but I could have just misunderstood. Ah, well.
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| Toxico 3713th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Ha, ha, ha.... I will not perish...." , posted Tue 15 Jun 09:08
quote:
the SS character designers also worked on this anime movie.
And again, "huh?".
Who, exactly?
And how did you "confirm" that?
As I said, I took that from a FAQ...
Well, in this case I call it 'confirm' to actually heard the fact from people that I actually trust (I mean, I know they don't lie); well, now that you have actually made a crack in my knowledge I guess I'll look up in the staff of the subject in question.
quote:
if I'm not mistaken Prusia didn't even existed then
You are mistaken (and it's "Prussia").
Oh well, them I guess I'm an ignorant XD
Tekkenshu -> Los movimientos que nunca existieron y siempre quisistes tener!
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| ONSLAUGHT 2728th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "EA" , posted Tue 15 Jun 11:02
quote:
I am guessing "Olivier Hagué" means elitist asshole in some dead language!
Funny, I was reading another board when that name came across...
Not too long ago it was the infamous Olivier Hague who was trying to do what Timekiller is now doing, except Timekiller is actually doing it properly.
He doesn't come in all on the offensive, he doesn't point out everyone else's ideas and theories and say "you're wrong 'cause I said so, this book I have tells me so!". He starts his own topic, says there's this really good book he has that gives 'behind the scenes' info from the creators, asks nicely for help with translation, and eventually some the info contained in said book is laid out for others to view, with more to come.
There's no accusations, no arguments, no one trying to disprove everyone else with near endless theorizing that just goes around in circles and on a whole pissing people off.
Just genuine Silent Hill fans helping each other out, to understand some insider information, to get an idea of the insider processes for the game.
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and find that truly good cup of coffee.
"Re(6):conclusion" 
