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| Grahf
73th Post
 
Occasional Customer
  
|  "Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2"
, posted Wed 12 May 18:04
OK, everyone wanted a clean thread to work with so here it is. Here's a recap of what was covered in the old thread:
1. Capcom has announced a new 2D fighter entitled (tentatively) “Capcom Fighting Jam”. The characters in the game are all from old Capcom fighting games. You can get the basic details on the MMCafe main page, which brings us to our next point…
2. THE MMCAFE HAS BEEN UPDATED! HOORAY! Check it out, there’s a basic description of the game on the main page including a list of confirmed characters.
3. So far the only sprites shown in screenshots are from old games. However, the confirmation of Ingrid (from CFAS) means that there will be at least one new sprite, so nothing is out of the question at this point.
4. The game is in the very early stages of production, so nothing is nailed down yet. There have been suspicions expressed that the life and super meters seen in the screenshots are placeholders. Other graphics may later be updated or cleaned up, no one knows for sure.
5. Speaking of super meters, there appears to be a “groove” system in place, similar to the CvS games. The grooves spotted so far seem to correspond to the games that the characters come from.
7. Several characters have been spotted in the backgrounds in screenshots. This may mean that they will not be playable, but as I said before, nothing is nailed down at this point. These characters include (but are not limited to):
Cammy, Hugo, Ken, Cody, T Hawk, Morrigan, Zabel, Honda, Ibuki, Maki, Galon, Rook (Luke?), Rolento, Dee Jay, Nash, Mukuro, Dan, Sean, Makoto, Birdie, Sasquatch, Karin, M Bison (boxer), Eagle.
(quote from Iggy)
6. Here are some links that were posted in the old thread:
Gamespot page
A blank "Coming Soon" official site
Pic 1 from the MMCafe main page
Pic 2 from the MMCafe main page
Batch of screenshots
Batch of concept art
Let me know if I forgot anything. Enjoy!
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| Burning Ranger 764th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
   
    
 
| "Ugh..." , posted Wed 12 May 20:18
In the words of the villian from Billy Madison: "No, no, no, no, no, NO, NO!" *Throws book at secretary*
I'm sorry, but once again, I feel Capcom is probably doing something stupid with CFJ. Here's my reasoning:
Back in 1994, SNK came up with a brilliant idea. They took fighting game characters from their two fighting game series at the time (Fatal Fury and Art of Fighting), and characters from other games (Athena and Ikari Warriors), created new heroes and villians, and created one of the most popular 2d fighting games to this day, one that has had yearly sequels for 9 years now. Of course, I'm talking about The King of Fighters.
For a moment, it seemed Capcom was going to do this with its new hero characters D.D., Ingrid, and that guy who looks like Shen Woo. But that got canned. Now from the looks of it, this game would do what CFAS wanted to do. But, from the looks of it, it's just a dreammatch game. Capcom hasn't given us anything new, like new characters or a new story, or even new gameplay. This is what's pissing me off, my friends. All it is is the opportunity to match a Darkstalker with a Street Fighter. And technically, that was already done in some Marvel Vs Capcom and Capcom vs SNK games...
And about the graphics... I'm not going to bitch about the graphics, but from what I understand, higher res CPS3 graphics are going to be mixed in with low res CPS2/CvS graphics. What gives? Will Capcom really do this? Or will they actually re-do all graphics... Again, I'm not bitching about graphics. I leave that for the Shoryuken.com people.
Sorry... I just had to vent.
Advanced Cyborg E. Branger AKA Burning Ranger
"Never underestimate the predictabilty of stupidity." -Vinnie Jones from SNATCH
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| Spoon 329th Post
Bronze Customer
| "Re(3):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Wed 12 May 20:35
Street Fighter has lived and died by its need for legacy: you have to keep the old, you want new, but people complain about anything new, but failing to bring in anything new will result in failing to bring in any new players.
I don't get what it is that people have done to give Capcom the idea that we will always be satisfied with more of the same old. The old was great, but let's have something new, eh? Capcom wouldn't be endlessly throwing out "new" games featuring old stuff if they didn't feel that they could get away with it.
One of the things I really liked about Guilty Gear is that they built up a whole new bunch of characters with zero history behind them, and with a combination of good looks and decent gameplay made a successful and popular game. I get the feeling that out of successes like GG/X/XX/XX#r is that some people in management believe that since 2D fighters still have a viable market, why not capitalize on nostalgia? I just know that somewhere out there in Capcom is this monkey going, "let other people make new stuff; we've built up such a rich history that we can milk it forever."
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| Burning Ranger 768th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(4):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Wed 12 May 20:56
quote:
dreammatch
What's with all the hate for dreammatches?
Would the various Vs. games be any worse if they had zero story? What's that? You want enormous story sequences and branching paths in MvC2? Go away.
At least MvC2 had original characters, and if Capcom had any initiative, they could have had a storyline that focused on these characters. But nooo.... Ruby and Amingo could have been reserved for their own fighting game series... but they had to be part of MvC2.. depriving them of story or any kind of real identity.
KOF did it right. Not only did they give the FF/AOF/Ikari/Psycho Soldier teams their own storylines, but they created whole new characters with their own storylines. Eventually, we got even more new characters with deeper storylines. This more than I can say about Capcom's recent Marvel vs Capcom and Capcom vs SNK series.
Now, I'm not bashing dreammatch games... they are good... in moderation. SNK/Playmore did KOF98 and KOF02 four years apart/ There were three story games between. Compare that to the last 3 2D fighters that Capcom made... all were dreammatch games... and even before that, dream match games were beginning to dominate their agenda.
My point is that by making another dreammatch game (Capcom Fighting Jam), they're not doing anything new. Some people might be just fine with a dreammatch game (ask all the people who like MvC2). But for me, I want more substance...a reason to play. I bet you a lot of people wouldn't play Metal Gear Solid if it was just about sneaking around and killing people, with no story behind it. But then again, people play Quake III Arena (including me) even when it doesn't have a story (but at least id doesn't make all their games tournament games).
Sorry again... I'm just have not been impressed with Capcom's fighting game initiatives lately... actually for a while now.
Advanced Cyborg E. Branger AKA Burning Ranger
"Never underestimate the predictabilty of stupidity." -Vinnie Jones from SNATCH
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| EddyT 285th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(6):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Wed 12 May 23:10
I really think that if any of the 2D fighter companies (Sammy, SNK, Capcom) really wanted to make a resurgence with a 2D fighter sequel or crossover, they would have to start from the ground-up. That means new sprites for everyone that would be on par with current technology. If any of those three ever realize that, they would probably rake in the dough that the other two would be passing up. I am sure all 3 realize that, but won't make the extra effort for unknown reasons.
Capcom is the company that has the financial means and manpower to make all new sprites for a game. Unfortunately, they have dropped the ball as well. A golden opportunity squandered... especially with a 3 year hiatus from 2D fighting. It's disappointing for most of us, for sure. It does give the message to people that they really don't have the ambition. Just lazy.
I'll still be playing CFJ if it's a good fighter, but you can't help to think what it would be like if they took that extra step. No wonder most people have flocked to 3D fighters nowadays. Graphics are always upgraded, since 3D platforms are much higher priority. It's also easier (and probably cheaper) to model a character than hand-draw one.
It's very sad, and I'm certain we won't be seeing many more new 2D fighters from now on.
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| Satoshi_Miwa 2658th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
| "Re(7):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Wed 12 May 23:10
quote:
Come on, people put more effort into Mugen games than Capcom is putting into this. It's like if Rumiko Takashi continued Ranma 1/2 like the fans of that wanted but just recycled her art from the past volumes and slapped on a story that would even make Greg Sharp cringe.
This is sure as hell not what I wanted. It's not even going to bother to include a large roster, which would be the only thing redeeming about it.
Hey, if they shipped the game like this is right now I'd agree with you.
But it's not the final game, it's not even half way done yet. It's an E3 demo meant to help promote a game that's in early devlopment (30%). That means a lot can change between now and the release (see the first CvS). We have 70% left of game to go, and that means we have a hellua of a lot of room for changes.
Including character rosters, which does not seem to be set in any sort of stone (none of the reports I've read mention any limit). Using this as a judge would be like judging the roster for SvC (Man I'm using this as an example a lot tonight) on what was first announced....
And as for the Mugen stuff, well Mugen has shit AI. If Capcom can pull at least an CvS2 level one there I'll be sold. Plus the idea of multiple grooves from each game intrigues me, and if they can balance it half decently I can see some neat play aspects. Using Sakura with a Savior style super system has potential if tweaked right.
So...Lets not get too negative till we see a beta-test. Lets go more with "Well, it'd be nice they did this).
And if this was really Capcom's attempt at Greg Sharp style game then we'd have a powerless Chun Li that would be beaten easily by every character and written in a vaguely Stefan like fashion...Great, now I feel icky even thinking that...-.-
Separated at Birth?
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| Spoon 336th Post
Bronze Customer
| "Re(8):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Wed 12 May 23:16
quote:
in early devlopment 30%
I know I quote this demo too often, but here I go again:
Play Heavy Gear 2's demo, and hate it.
Then go play the retail version of Heavy Gear 2 and be amazed.
Between the two, weaponry, AI, control schemes, and a total-utter-complete HUD overhaul.
You don't know what can change between a demo offering and the final product until you see the final product, especially when the demo says "30%". FFS that's not even halfway through dev! I know Capcom has a reputation for laziness, but even for Capcom 30% means less than half-baked.
That said, I'm not expecting 100% new everything by the time the final edition runs. And while that is already a disappointment for me, I'm still going to temper my skepticism if ONLY a little, because anything that early in development deserves a chance.
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| EddyT 287th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(8):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Wed 12 May 23:23:
quote:
But it's not the final game, it's not even half way done yet. It's an E3 demo meant to help promote a game that's in early devlopment (30%). That means a lot can change between now and the release (see the first CvS). We have 70% left of game to go, and that means we have a hellua of a lot of room for changes.
Normally, I would agree with you... but people are starving for a 2D fighter that looks as good as it plays. It seems that Capcom is definitely going to recycle the sprites 100% (I have never seen a crossover game in development go back and replace old sprites with new ones, so our hopes are shot). Backgrounds look nice, but mixing that with CPS2 and CPS3 sprites just makes it another cut-and-paste Mugen game that looks awkward.
Dated graphics yet again means that not as many people will play this game, and that means yet again I will be stuck playing against the CPU most of the time. I don't even care about playing against the CPU either.
The novelty of a crossover may be nice, but that wears off fast if there's no heart and soul put into it in terms of graphics. Call me shallow for complaining about graphics, but we live in 2004, and there's sprites in CFJ that are from 1994. Although GGX has started to put milage on their sprites with repeated sequels, at least the game looks great on a higher definition TV.
I think it's time for Capcom to finally move forward, because gamers are already moving forward without them.
PS: Hopefully, the good that may come out of this may be a clamoring to have Warzard/Red Earth released in the US, so we can finally see how that game was like.
[this message was edited by EddyT on Wed 12 May 23:28] |
| Iggy 3297th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):Ugh..." , posted Thu 13 May 03:25:
[RANT] Well, maybe many people at Shoryuken.com are bashing it, but it is hitting the 3000 posts in less than 2 days on 2ch, with more hope than hate, and frankly, I'm more interested in reading them than the asses of Shoryuken.com. CFA☆ was canned because the players at the betatest said it was crappy, not because Shoryuken.com screamed about it. CFJ hasn't been played by anyone yet ; when it will be betatested (it's in pre-alpha stage now, so...), we will see if it is enjoyable or now then.
quote:
But, from the looks of it, it's just a dreammatch game.
Yeah, because having Strider fighting Poison in a serious game is totally believable, thanks to CFA☆'s superb scenario.
quote:
All it is is the opportunity to match a Darkstalker with a Street Fighter.
Not for me. This is the opportunity to see again some Vampire characters in a new game, even copiped.
quote:
At least MvC2 had original characters, and if Capcom had any initiative, they could have had a storyline that focused on these characters. But nooo.... Ruby and Amingo could have been reserved for their own fighting game series... but they had to be part of MvC2.. depriving them of story or any kind of real identity.
Ruby and Amingo are like Ingrid, they come from a game that has been canned before being released because it was bad.
quote:
blablabla story blablabla Metal Gear Solid blablabla
God, you have to be kidding me.
quote:
Come on, people put more effort into Mugen games than Capcom is putting into this.
Yeah, because Mugen is so much fun to play and bug-free and has a perfect balance. Yeah, thank you Mugen ! And I would love to hear where you have seen that the roster will be small. Wow! You're an insider!
quote:
Capcom is the company that has the financial means and manpower to make all new sprites for a game.
Yes, but this kind of game don't sell as much as it did at the time. So they can't invest as much money in it as in a new DMC that will sell 10 times more. What is it you fail to understand there ?
quote:
Spoon, marry me, please
Onslaught ! You've been cheating on me!
本当にしつこい女だなぁ...
[this message was edited by Iggy on Thu 13 May 03:30] |
| Ultima 357th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(2):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Thu 13 May 06:25
quote:
Ingrid is gonna make me the sole reason for playing this game,along with Leo. So far,I'm not too pleased with the cast,but eh,no one will be happy with it,so what's there to complain for(NO T&C! ARGH!)? But I do love the fact that there isn't an overwhelming number of Ryu clones here. That's a refreshing change.
If Ingird is anything like her CFAS counterpart, she's going to be boring as fuck to play.
Also, 3 out of the 11 characters so far are shotos. Huh...
As I said repeatedly, this game NEEDS a gigantic cast to succeed. There really is no other way, unless they indeed surprise the hell out of us and revamp all the sprites (or at least bring everyone up to CPS3 standards to fit in with Chunners and Yun). I'm not betting on the latter though...
I notice that Demitri has a huge red aura around him now, probably to counter that ugly black outline effect that Morrigan had.
And Guy in A-Groove + No Air Recovery = Guy (possibly) not sucking with CCs.
--
Ultima - The Right arm of Scrub Voltron
http://uramble.com/index.html - U's Rambling Page
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| Jigsaw
150th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(6):Ugh..." , posted Thu 13 May 07:45
I just saw the trailer, and, well... I don't get it.
"With more than 20 spectacular fighters!"
Is this seriously supposed to get people excited? In the days of SSF2, I bet this would make people jump through the roof with excitement, but now it just doesn't sound impressive at all, especially if what we've seen so far is an indicator of how much stuff will be recycled.
MvC2 had a grand total of 56 characters (that's including a fair amount of completely new characters/sprites) - with the amount of character/sprite recycling that's going on in CFJ, there's something very suspicious about the number 20, IMO. Either they're going to announce an additional 40 characters as a surprise later or something, or everyone is going to get new sprites after all. I just don't want to believe the game will have 20-something characters, while looking like THIS. :/
Also, not sure if someone mentioned this yet, but Adon is in the same background as Sagat and Dhalsim, so he probably won't be playable either. Not much of a surprise, perhaps...
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| beto 429th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(7):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Thu 13 May 08:08
30% or not, they´ve released a video of the game already. What are they going to do? Change all the sprites, redo all the hit boxes?
I don´t think so.
At best, i think we´ll get some "new" characters thrown in. Those we´ve seen are staying, sprites and all.
quote:
I really think that if any of the 2D fighter companies (Sammy, SNK, Capcom) really wanted to make a resurgence with a 2D fighter sequel or crossover, they would have to start from the ground-up. That means new sprites for everyone that would be on par with current technology. If any of those three ever realize that, they would probably rake in the dough that the other two would be passing up.
Except it didn´t work for Sammy. KOF still makes more money than GG in Japan every single year.
http://www.am-j.co.jp/
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| Sano 596th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Midnight Bliss?" , posted Thu 13 May 09:30:
I'm not the type to gripe about a game this early myself. I didn't complain about SVC at all until I saw their dumb ass Boss Line Up. And even then, when I actually played the Game in the Arcade I found it lots of fun and ate my words, so I'll stay positive until I get to play it.
I wonder if Demitri will be Midnight Blissing People? At least Chun-Li's MB has to be different from the one she has in SVC since that was just like Felicia's. I loved SVC's take on Midnight Blisses, but I loved Capcom's just a bit better, so I can't wait to see how Capcom does, if they decide to include MBs.
Hauzer vs. Ryu has been building up since Pocket Fighter and now we get to live it! In Ryu's ending, Tessa/Tabasa sends Ryu after Hauzer and doesn't think he will survive, Oooh...
Other Early Match Ups -
Chun-Li vs. Felicia - Felicia's still mad about Chun-Li locking her up in Pocket Fighter, LOL!
Sakura vs. Ingrid - I see London, I see France, I see Sakura and Ingrid's underpants!
Guy vs. Yun - "We are not Feilong clones gosh darn it all to heck!" Yeah, I've heard Guy called a fake Feilong a bunch of times, despite the fact that his moves are very different and he hails from Final Fight.
Demitri vs. Leo - Jam over, Beast Fight!
Guile - Odd man out for now, but he most likely kicked Nash's Ass from CFAS to get into this game. "RICE BARRELL!"
[this message was edited by Sano on Thu 13 May 09:31] |
| hikarutilmitt
187th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(3):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Thu 13 May 19:36
quote:
Also, 3 out of the 11 characters so far are shotos. Huh...
Which would be? Sakura plays nothing like Ryu. Hell, Demitri is the closest thing I see, and even he doesn't play like Ryu.
*ahem*
Anyway, I'm somehow looking forward to this game with a morbid curiosity. Much as I'd love to see a CPS3-style Sakura, I don't care if it's just a bunch of thrown-together sprites from various games so long as it's playable and fun.
Of course, I'd laugh my ass off if this got bad mentions at the beta-test, Capcom killed it like CFAS and then just said "Oh, yeah, here's SF4 coming in about 10 days. Sorry about not putting it out sooner." Wishful thinking of the ages, but...
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| Iggy 3311th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Fri 14 May 04:05
quote:
To be personally honest, I'm not sure what I loathe more: the gigantic herd of whiners on SRK.com passing judgment on this game after seeing a dozen screenshots or the overly optimistic fanboys who can't recognize the FACT that lazy-ass Capcom is bending us over AGAIN and we're just taking it.
What about those who are waiting for someone to play the game to make up their opinion ?
quote:
*I'd be more likely to believe that they'll remove the Midnight Bliss move entirely just to avoid having to draw all those new frames. After all he has another move with the same properties, and that should keep his gameplay intact. And as we all know, Capcom is all about the gameplay and dicks about everything else..
It's possible... If the Vampire groove is all about ES moves, then they may as well have only 1 EX move. And if Felicia wasn't doing the Please Help Me in the vid, I would have thought they wouldn't have even one EX.
Or they could as well be only about chain combo, and once again be deprived of the ES move goodness. If it's for the sake of balance... (cries)
quote:
Now that I think of it. Has Chun Li ever been in the "OMG this game is so broken because of this character" tier besides A2 and 3S?
When did Chunli break 3rd Strike ? She's easier to play than, say, Yun or Urien, but she's far from being the Foxy of her game.
本当にしつこい女だなぁ...
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| Ultima 358th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(8):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Fri 14 May 06:03
re: GIGANTIC cast and MvC2
A number of things about this: First of all, while the character cast has been slimmed down to a handful, people forget that the game has had more "top tier roulette" in its history than ANY OTHER GAME. It took about two years for this game's top 10 to be decided upon, and three years to further slim it down to a Big Four (and anything below Big Four is still in huge debate). That's longer than most people even play most games. And really, you only need to use the Big Four at the veyr upper most levels of the game. Just below that level, and you can do extremely well with an addition 25-30 characters, depending on your skill level of course.
On this note, note that the Big Four of MvC2 is perhaps the most diverse of ANY game, since each character is so unique. Who cares that losers like Zangief and Hayato can't compete? Variety > Balance.
Trust me tht CFJ will be DAMN LUCKY to get that kind of treatment, and it's not going to happen unless it has a cast size close to MvC2's.
Of course, a large cast doesn't necessarily mean it's going to have as interesting as history as MvC2 - CvS2's history has been nowhere near as turbulent, but that's because CvS2 was designed with the "let's make sure everyone sucks" style of balancing, with the end result that little things slip through that end up having huge factors on gameplay.
But anyway, Capcom needs to do one of two things: Either they redo all the sprites of the "More than 20" characters they're going to have, or else add another 40 or so characters to the list, because this ugly clashing mess (that still looks better than SvC BTW) isn't anything to get excited about right now.
Oh yeah: I'll bet that Demitri will either not have Midnight Bliss, or everyone will have a generic transformation.
> When did Chunli break 3rd Strike ? She's easier to play than, say, Yun or Urien, but she's far from being the Foxy of her game.
She dosn't necessarily "break" the game, but she's still waaaaay too powerful for how retardedly easy she is to play.
I thought Chun-Li was pretty stupid in MvC1 as well. It's just that there were more powerful chaarcters in there.
--
Ultima - The Right arm of Scrub Voltron
http://uramble.com/index.html - U's Rambling Page
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| VManOfMana 416th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(9):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Fri 14 May 07:37
quote:
> When did Chunli break 3rd Strike ? She's easier to play than, say, Yun or Urien, but she's far from being the Foxy of her game.
She dosn't necessarily "break" the game, but she's still waaaaay too powerful for how retardedly easy she is to play.
I thought Chun-Li was pretty stupid in MvC1 as well. It's just that there were more powerful chaarcters in there.
Yeah, but unlike CvS2 B/S/C/A-Sak Chun Li does have bad matchups in Third Strike. She is powerful for how simple she is to play, yes, but she has her weak points. Lack of a good wakeup move for starters.
I mean, considering that she has no useful juggles besides HouyokuSen's followup, few mixups, no crossups, no wakeups (besides Kikoshou), low priority command moves (besides EX Spinning Bird Kick just because it cannot be hit low) and no decent missile, how else can she be good besides giving her very good normals? At least she cannot do standing fierces like Sagat does crouching fierces and Cammmy does roundhouses in CvS2, and those two do have good wakeups.
Can't comment much on MvC1. I really enjoyed the game, and Chun Li at least needed to charge super to make good damage (not counting her infinite). For retarded, I think the prize goes to Red Venom and Wolverine, unless you count WM/GWM as a single character.
Jabel D. Morales - VMan of Mana.
http://vman.animecafe.net/
"Tameraeba makeyo!"
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| Kaepora 350th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(9):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Sat 15 May 02:16
quote:
If they can do something different with existiing characters. Like say give Guy new/remapped chains, moves, properties, voice, and little quirks; instead of just SFA3 Guy. Then it will definately be enjoyable, if not only for a slight refresh of the old characters. It will be worth the sprite deficiency.
I dunno, it looked a lot like each character kept their own game abilities (Darkstalkers with their hit-them-on-the-ground attacks and such) in the trailer.
If they can somehow make it all work that way (each character has their games' inherent abilities, more power to them, I guess.
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| NARUTO 2360th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Tue 18 May 01:47
quote:
It's true, but it looks to me that the hideously mismatched bunch of old characters will be accompanied by a hideous mismatch of old gameplay.
Balancing these systems doesn't exactly make them new, though it can very well make them comprimised.
No offence but if you can stop those negative spirit it'll be a good think. We all know what those negatives comments have done to CFAS. IMO if we keep some (huge) interest on it, maube capcom will "hear" it on then put more effort on the game.
And if 2D game made for fanboys (SO far what CFJ is) doesn't suit you, wait a piece of 3D crap with nice (ahem) grahpic called KOF MI awaits you....
IMO CFJ is 1000000000 times interesting than KOF, since CFJ seems to be made only for 2D fans, like a WE don't forget you, unlike KOF MI who's just a Pathetic comercial try to lure 3D whore kids.
Iggy: what the Dragon apocalipse???
I know it's a move from Tabasa in Pocket fighter, but since she didn't get it in Warzard I don't know what it is?? Can you show me the light?
A friend is someone who truly knows you But who loves you anyway...
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| Ultima 359th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(3):Re(10):Capcom Fighting Jam, Thread 2" , posted Tue 18 May 05:55
> > It's true, but it looks to me that the hideously mismatched bunch of old characters will be accompanied by a hideous mismatch of old gameplay.
Old + Good >>>>> New + Crap.
Assuming, of course, this actually turns out to be any good. I will say this: It has roughly 1029287287238727 times a better chance of being good this way than that abomination that was CFAS. But MAN does it clash awfully right now.
> No offence but if you can stop those negative spirit it'll be a good think. We all know what those negatives comments have done to CFAS. IMO if we keep some (huge) interest on it, maube capcom will "hear" it on then put more effort on the game.
CFAS was canned (presumeably) because it was universally panned for being rubbish. That's after people actually played it. As it is, despite the numerous complaints about the clashing sprites (myself included), I think the level of interest in CFJ is higher/more positive than it was for CFAS. I could be wrong though...
> And if 2D game made for fanboys (SO far what CFJ is) doesn't suit you, wait a piece of 3D crap with nice (ahem) grahpic called KOF MI awaits you....
Well, as a 3D effort, KoFMI is waaaay better than any of Capcom's 3D efforts to date. Unlike CFAS, it actually looks decent. How it plays is anyone's guess though...
> IMO CFJ is 1000000000 times interesting than KOF, since CFJ seems to be made only for 2D fans, like a WE don't forget you, unlike KOF MI who's just a Pathetic comercial try to lure 3D whore kids.
So wait: What the hell is KoF NeoWave then?
Not to mention, SNK has other 2D stuff coming out, like SS0S (already out in some places) and KoF2004 later on.
After a gap of more than 3 years, we expect a little better from Capcom. But I will say, CFJ, ugly as it is, is a step in the right direction, if only because CFAS was a huge gigantic leap in the wrong direction.
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Ultima - The Right arm of Scrub Voltron
http://uramble.com/index.html - U's Rambling Page
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| Ultima 362th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(2):strange hobby" , posted Tue 18 May 08:05
quote:
One day, I'll understand the hate for the SF3 character design. I mean, SF2 had so many lame designs, like Honda, Bison, Guile, T hawk, Cammy...
The Sf2 cast is pretty much untouchable, due mostly to the fact that SF2 started it all. But moreover, the Sf2 cast is among the best things that Capcom has ever created. Every character (sans early Ken & Ryu) are completely different. Yes, they're mostly a bunch of archetypes, but that made them easy to identify and appraochable, and they were all rock solid. Yes, Blanka and Sim were freaks, but it was okay because they were *SF2* freaks. They will never be a cast as great as the Sf2 cast ever again.
Capcom evidently forgot that when they made Sf3. They scraped the cast of SF1 when the made Sf2, but that was because no one gave a shit about Sf1 (and rightfully so). Sf2 was on a whole new level, and its characters were way too loved for them to unceremoniously drop them like that for Sf3.
Sf3's cast in absolute terms are probably no worse than SF2's, bt now we had a bunch of new characters & freaks who didn't have the WOW factor of Sf2 backing them up. Some were pretty good, some were just there, and others were waay out there. Very unorthodox, and little in the way of "cool" factor like SNK's fare, not to mention almost no one outside of Japan particularly liked the damn games (don't let revionist history fool you - 3S's popularity has only been a somewhat recent phenomenon), which is why it took years to get "used" to the SF3 cast, unlike SF2's New Stereotypes or even SF Alpha.
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Ultima - The Right arm of Scrub Voltron
http://uramble.com/index.html - U's Rambling Page
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| Mosquiton 1194th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(2):strange hobby" , posted Tue 18 May 10:48
quote:
Yeesh, if Capcom includes older characters in games they get derided for milking their intelllectual property [as if there were a lot of other ways for them to make money off these old SF2 characters] and if they try to add new characters they get shot down with complaints that the character designs aren't accessible to everyone. Never mind taking three years off from fighting games, I'm surprised Capcom bothered to come back to the genre at all.
Just to state it for the record, I don't have any problem whatsoever with the Third Strike designs. It's a beautiful game with some great designs.
The truth is the cast wasn't, and continues not to be, incredibly popular with fans. I think it's great to move away from archetypes, really, but in absolute terms Street Fighter III just wasn't that successful and it's an obvious argument that the appeal of the characters was part of it.
The 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' comes up a lot with Capcom, and it's not fair... but a lot of times you need to find balance to have a successful product.
And hell, I don't have a problem with reusing characters either. Why stand on principle on that kind of thing? But a company should at least -respect- its own intellectual property. Redraw sprites, give new moves, keep things fresh.
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| Luisinan 886th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(5):strange hobby" , posted Wed 19 May 12:15
quote:
My problem with the SF3 designs is that a decent amount of them were just freaks with some sort of gimmick rather than a "realistic" (as far as a videogame fighting character can be) fighting style. Blanka and Dhalsim were always the outliers in the Street Fighter series and Dhalsim at least had a decent explanation to his stretchiness. Stuff like Oro, Necro, 12 and Q just felt out of place; they would have fit better into a Darkstalkers game. The more human characters on the other hand I have no problem with and actual I really like Makoto's simpler design as well as Capcom trying to make a new main hero with Alex.
Personally my problem with these games is when you place the sprites of drastically different qualities next to each other it looks really obvious. When Morrigan was fighting other CPS2 characters in MvC it looked fine, but now that they are including stuff from Street Fighter 3, Red Earth and newly drawn art she and her ilk look worse and worse.
I liked the SF3 designs. I mean, just by the look of the game, you can tell that Capcom was going for an urban-gritty-sci-fi-Akira-esque-Blade Runner type game.
You have your typical martial artists: Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Chun Li
You have your typical new schoolers that use old styles: Sean, Yun, Yang, Ibuki, Makoto
You have under represented fighting styles: Dudley, Elena
You have the troubled new heroes: Alex, Remy
You have an ancient master: Oro
You have someone from Final Fight: Hugo
You have genetics and technology gone awry: Twelve, Necro, Urien, Gill
And you have a mystery: Q
Its a mish mash of old school karate with a modern, sci fi twist. And even a bit of religious overtones with Gill proclaiming to be the Savior. I liked this. The Alpha series was more of a traditional plus light hearted series. This game had a much heavier contrast.
Too bad it didn't get super popular like Alpha. Maybe if Capcom had added a gimmick or two that would make it easier for novice players to play. But then, this was supposed to be a 'serious' fighting game. Here's hoping that SF4 is still a consideration. BUY 5 copies of CFJ to prove it Capcom that we still want more fighters!
Bored? "160"
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