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| DarkZero 743th Post
 
Red Carpet Regular Member+
   
    
    
|  "La Pucelle: Tactics Censored"
, posted Fri 30 Apr 09:04
Apparently a couple of La Pucelle: Tactics reviews mentioned the fact that some things from the Japanese version of the game had been removed in their American review copies. Since then, it's spread around a bit and now Bill Swartz, the "Head Woof" of Mastiff Games, has decided to let 1up.com interview him about it.
What follows is not only sad, but hilarious. Before I begin the quoting, I should mention that the majority of the censorship is a number of different crosses in the game, along with one character's smoking.
quote:
Different cultures attach very different meanings to symbols. For example, in Japan (and a big chunk of Asia) the Swastika marks temples, and is often seen written large on maps and temple doors, and sometimes sold as a charm. That it happens to have been used as a symbol by the Nazi party is a distant, historical note of little relevance. You could show a scene of a nice neighborhood building with a Swastika on the door and a Japanese gamer/viewer would think 'Temple' and that would be that. Show the same thing in the US and you better really carefully explain what's going on, and even then expect some pretty serious misunderstandings and bad vibes.
Yes. Obviously, because of this cultural misunderstanding, swastikas (aren't they usually just manjis?) must be removed from Japanese media that are brought to the United States. ESPECIALLY if they're targeted toward a mainstream audience of American children. Which is exactly why Shonen Jump USA censored them repeatedly. Oh, wait. They didn't do that. Ever. They left them in, just like every other manga translation company in the US has.
quote:
And that gets to the second reality: There are well organized forces that work hard to punish software makers and sellers for what they consider religious transgressions.
Sort of like the way Square has been punished repeatedly for keeping Xenogears and Final Fantasy Tactics, the two most unadulteratedly sacrilicious games in North America, on the market for roughly six years each? Or the way Konami was punished for releasing one of the sacrilicious darlings of every gaming magazine's "best games ever" lists, the extremely popular Symphony of the Night?
Oh, wait. Neither of those things happened, either. Not only was there not a strong backlash against any of those best-selling games, but after years of closely watching the debate over video game censorship, I have yet to see even a strongly worded editorial about them. You know, like the kind that Slashdot Games regularly posts? You'd think that these "well organized forces" would've at least TRIED to punish Square and Konami for their "religious transgressions" at some point in the last year if they actually cared, but apparently they don't.
quote:
Few companies are opposed to censorship as Mastiff is.
I'm guessing that those "few companies" would be the ones that actually refuse to censor their games. I guess that gives us a short list that includes Square, Konami, Rockstar, id Software, Capcom, Atlus, and, oh yes... everyone that isn't Mastiff. Considering that Mastiff is the only game company I can think of that censored one of their imports in the last year or two (besides Namco, for very real legal reasons), I'd say that Mastiff is one of the few companies that isn't opposed to censorship, not only in the realm of video games, but in the entire market for Japanese imports in the United States.
Right now, we've actually gotten to the point where buying a piece of translated Japanese media, whether it's in the form of anime, manga, or video games, gets you the real thing, even if it's from a small company that isn't immune to prosecution. Mastiff is one of the only companies in those three industries that's willing to let a customer put money down for a censored product. So really, even though it's just a small change, I think I'll skip right over this one and just wait for Phantom Brave in June. I've gotten used to not having to worry about whether or not I'm buying a censored product. I don't feel like changing that situation.
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| Juke Joint Jezebel 2843th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
|  "Re(1):La Pucelle: Tactics Censored"
, posted Fri 30 Apr 09:32
quote:
Apparently a couple of La Pucelle: Tactics reviews mentioned the fact that some things from the Japanese version of the game had been removed in their American review copies. Since then, it's spread around a bit and now Bill Swartz, the "Head Woof" of Mastiff Games, has decided to let 1up.com interview him about it.
What follows is not only sad, but hilarious. Before I begin the quoting, I should mention that the majority of the censorship is a number of different crosses in the game, along with one character's smoking.
Different cultures attach very different meanings to symbols. For example, in Japan (and a big chunk of Asia) the Swastika marks temples, and is often seen written large on maps and temple doors, and sometimes sold as a charm. That it happens to have been used as a symbol by the Nazi party is a distant, historical note of little relevance. You could show a scene of a nice neighborhood building with a Swastika on the door and a Japanese gamer/viewer would think 'Temple' and that would be that. Show the same thing in the US and you better really carefully explain what's going on, and even then expect some pretty serious misunderstandings and bad vibes.
Yes. Obviously, because of this cultural misunderstanding, swastikas (aren't they usually just manjis?) must be removed from Japanese media that are brought to the United States. ESPECIALLY if they're targeted toward a mainstream audience of American children. Which is exactly why Shonen Jump USA censored them repeatedly. Oh, wait. They didn't do that. Ever. They left them in, just like every other manga translation company in the US has.
And that gets to the second reality: There are well organized forces that work hard to punish software makers and sellers for what they consider religious transgressions.
Sort of like the way Square has been punished repeatedly for keeping Xenogears and Final Fantasy Tactics, the two most unadulteratedly sacrilicious games in North America, on the market for roughly six years each? Or the way Konami was punished for releasing one of the sacrilicious darlings of every gaming magazine's "best games ever" lists, the extremely popular Symphony of the Night?
Oh, wait. Neither of those things happened, either. Not only was there not a strong backlash against any of those best-selling games, but after years of closely watching the debate over video game censorship, I have yet to see even a strongly worded editorial about them. You know, like the kind that Slashdot Games regularly posts? You'd think that these "well organized forces" would've at least TRIED to punish Square and Konami for their "religious transgressions" at some point in the last year if they actually cared, but apparently they don't.
Few companies are opposed to censorship as Mastiff is.
I'm guessing that those "few companies" would be the ones that actually refuse to censor their games. I guess that gives us a short list that includes Square, Konami, Rockstar, id Software, Capcom, Atlus, and, oh yes... everyone that isn't Mastiff. Considering that Mastiff is the only game company I can think of that censored one of their imports in the last year or two (besides Namco, for very real legal reasons), I'd say that Mastiff is one of the few companies that isn't opposed to censorship, not only in the realm of video games, but in the entire market for Japanese imports in the United States.
Right now, we've actually gotten to the point where buying a piece of translated Japanese media, whether it's in the form of anime, manga, or video games, gets you the real thing, even if it's from a small company that isn't immune to prosecution. Mastiff is one of the only companies in those three industries that's willing to let a customer put money down for a censored product. So really, even though it's just a small change, I think I'll skip right over this one and just wait for Phantom Brave in June. I've gotten used to not having to worry about whether or not I'm buying a censored product. I don't feel like changing that situation.
Nice.
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| Juke Joint Jezebel 2844th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):La Pucelle: Tactics Censored" , posted Fri 30 Apr 09:33
quote:
Apparently a couple of La Pucelle: Tactics reviews mentioned the fact that some things from the Japanese version of the game had been removed in their American review copies. Since then, it's spread around a bit and now Bill Swartz, the "Head Woof" of Mastiff Games, has decided to let 1up.com interview him about it.
What follows is not only sad, but hilarious. Before I begin the quoting, I should mention that the majority of the censorship is a number of different crosses in the game, along with one character's smoking.
Different cultures attach very different meanings to symbols. For example, in Japan (and a big chunk of Asia) the Swastika marks temples, and is often seen written large on maps and temple doors, and sometimes sold as a charm. That it happens to have been used as a symbol by the Nazi party is a distant, historical note of little relevance. You could show a scene of a nice neighborhood building with a Swastika on the door and a Japanese gamer/viewer would think 'Temple' and that would be that. Show the same thing in the US and you better really carefully explain what's going on, and even then expect some pretty serious misunderstandings and bad vibes.
Yes. Obviously, because of this cultural misunderstanding, swastikas (aren't they usually just manjis?) must be removed from Japanese media that are brought to the United States. ESPECIALLY if they're targeted toward a mainstream audience of American children. Which is exactly why Shonen Jump USA censored them repeatedly. Oh, wait. They didn't do that. Ever. They left them in, just like every other manga translation company in the US has.
And that gets to the second reality: There are well organized forces that work hard to punish software makers and sellers for what they consider religious transgressions.
Sort of like the way Square has been punished repeatedly for keeping Xenogears and Final Fantasy Tactics, the two most unadulteratedly sacrilicious games in North America, on the market for roughly six years each? Or the way Konami was punished for releasing one of the sacrilicious darlings of every gaming magazine's "best games ever" lists, the extremely popular Symphony of the Night?
Oh, wait. Neither of those things happened, either. Not only was there not a strong backlash against any of those best-selling games, but after years of closely watching the debate over video game censorship, I have yet to see even a strongly worded editorial about them. You know, like the kind that Slashdot Games regularly posts? You'd think that these "well organized forces" would've at least TRIED to punish Square and Konami for their "religious transgressions" at some point in the last year if they actually cared, but apparently they don't.
Few companies are opposed to censorship as Mastiff is.
I'm guessing that those "few companies" would be the ones that actually refuse to censor their games. I guess that gives us a short list that includes Square, Konami, Rockstar, id Software, Capcom, Atlus, and, oh yes... everyone that isn't Mastiff. Considering that Mastiff is the only game company I can think of that censored one of their imports in the last year or two (besides Namco, for very real legal reasons), I'd say that Mastiff is one of the few companies that isn't opposed to censorship, not only in the realm of video games, but in the entire market for Japanese imports in the United States.
Right now, we've actually gotten to the point where buying a piece of translated Japanese media, whether it's in the form of anime, manga, or video games, gets you the real thing, even if it's from a small company that isn't immune to prosecution. Mastiff is one of the only companies in those three industries that's willing to let a customer put money down for a censored product. So really, even though it's just a small change, I think I'll skip right over this one and just wait for Phantom Brave in June. I've gotten used to not having to worry about whether or not I'm buying a censored product. I don't feel like changing that situation.
Nice.
Almost forgot.
 MESSATSU
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| Juke Joint Jezebel 2846th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):La Pucelle: Tactics Censored" , posted Fri 30 Apr 09:47:
oh haha, i remember why i was in this thread. you forgot one thing in your educated rant
quote:
As a very small and brand new publisher without deep pockets we need to pick and choose our battles. Had we thought the crosses were meaningful we would have fought. But they weren't. And we'd much rather have the game widely available then face disappointed gamers who cannot find the title. It was the right decision, though as we grow as company we may make different calls in the future.
as i take it, they're a small publisher. and as a small publisher, they'd rather play it safe. even if "playing it safe" is as silly as some of the censored items mentioned. you know, opposed to taking a risk that may or may not cost them more money. business is business, but you knew that, i'm sure
also, they'd rather have the game widely available than face disappointed gamers who cannot find the title. better than me hiding the game at Circuit City, huh? hah!
but hey, you're the video game distribution expert. i'm sure you've read a lot of interesting articles that brought you to those decisions
[this message was edited by Juke Joint Jezebel on Fri 30 Apr 09:49] |
| Radish 2433th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):La Pucelle: Tactics Censored" , posted Fri 30 Apr 10:02
quote:
oh haha, i remember why i was in this thread. you forgot one thing in your educated rant
As a very small and brand new publisher without deep pockets we need to pick and choose our battles. Had we thought the crosses were meaningful we would have fought. But they weren't. And we'd much rather have the game widely available then face disappointed gamers who cannot find the title. It was the right decision, though as we grow as company we may make different calls in the future.
as i take it, they're a small publisher. and as a small publisher, they'd rather play it safe. even if "playing it safe" is as silly as some of the censored items mentioned. you know, opposed to taking a risk that may or may not cost them more money. business is business, but you knew that, i'm sure
also, they'd rather have the game widely available than face disappointed gamers who cannot find the title. better than me hiding the game at Circuit City, huh? hah!
but hey, you're the video game distribution expert. i'm sure you've read a lot of interesting articles that brought you to those decisions
Personally I'd like to learn more about these dedicated groups. Seeing as how the symbols were on characters who were already religious I don't see how anyone was going to complain. Atlus removed all the swasticas from Maken X but I think that's a totally different scenario.
Personally I think Mastif likes to mess around with stuff that really should be left be. They ruined the cover and this just sounds silly and paranoid. Maybe the anti-religion in videogame illuminati were silently fought off by Komami (Castlevania), Square (Xenogears, FFT) and Capcom's (Breath of Fire 2) massive lawyers, but I can't see anyone caring about this at all, let alone really noticing it in the first place.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not wrapped up in arms over this or anything (really it's very insignificant). It's just weird that they're messing with a game when I think we've really gotten over this 10 years ago.
I would like to see any info or articles on the organized forces though. I know Square was scared about Xenogears, but then it ended up being pretty popular and that one was like 100 times worse than a nun wearing a rosary.
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| Ammadeau 903th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(3):La Pucelle: Tactics Censored" , posted Fri 30 Apr 10:14
In La Pucelle the people with all those crosses are the GOOD GUYS. There's nothing for even radical Christian nutbags to complain about and the game is way, way, way, way, way, way, way too low profile to generate this kind of attention.
Sure, if I hadn't played the game already I would buy it hacked or no, but now I'm glad I didn't have to. It's a minor change, but it happens to be one that bothers me.
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| DarkZero 744th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(2):La Pucelle: Tactics Censored" , posted Fri 30 Apr 10:20
quote:
oh haha, i remember why i was in this thread. you forgot one thing in your educated rant
As a very small and brand new publisher without deep pockets we need to pick and choose our battles. Had we thought the crosses were meaningful we would have fought. But they weren't. And we'd much rather have the game widely available then face disappointed gamers who cannot find the title. It was the right decision, though as we grow as company we may make different calls in the future.
as i take it, they're a small publisher. and as a small publisher, they'd rather play it safe. even if "playing it safe" is as silly as some of the censored items mentioned. you know, opposed to taking a risk that may or may not cost them more money. business is business, but you knew that, i'm sure
also, they'd rather have the game widely available than face disappointed gamers who cannot find the title. better than me hiding the game at Circuit City, huh? hah!
but hey, you're the video game distribution expert. i'm sure you've read a lot of interesting articles that brought you to those decisions
Actually, I took that into account originally, but I cut down my post so that it wasn't absolutely huge.
Yes, you're right, Mastiff is a small publisher, and they can't afford a really strong blow from a powerful political organization or media outlet. However, what about all of the other small companies that have released unedited Japanese media that could very easily be considered controversial? Viz, the publisher of Shonen Jump USA, has enjoyed a good degree of success over the years, but they're nowhere near Konami or Square-Enix. Neither is Synch-Point, which had to deal with a number of angry editorials and letters to the editor about FLCL's run on Adult Swim. And Atlus USA is definitely in the bottom tier of game companies, mostly churning out semi-updated ports of older games like Double Dragon Advance and River City Ransom EX or obscure-for-a-damn-good-reason games like "DemiKids", but they still took a chance on releasing Disgaea unedited, and they're taking another one by releasing Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne unedited (as far as we know).
And what about all of the small American game companies that don't bow down to the fear of controversy? People Can Fly and Dreamcatcher Games (Painkiller) aren't huge megacorporations, and neither is Croteam, but they didn't feel the need to edit their games.
And your assumption that any controversy would cause the game to disappear off the shelves is without precedent. Grand Theft Auto's and Manhunt's sales certainly weren't hurt by controversy, so why would Mastiff's? And that's only if anyone cared about the game's "controversial content", which -- if FFT, Xenogears, SotN, and Disgaea are any example -- they do not.
quote:
In La Pucelle the people with all those crosses are the GOOD GUYS. There's nothing for even radical Christian nutbags to complain about and the game is way, way, way, way, way, way, way too low profile to generate this kind of attention.
Yeah, and the really ironic part about all of this is that in Disgaea, the guys with the crosses are the BAD GUYS. And every advertisement and press release that I've seen for La Pucelle has made at least one mention of Disgaea, if not several of them.
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| DarkZero 745th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(4):La Pucelle: Tactics Censored" , posted Fri 30 Apr 13:21
quote:
Croteam is Croatian, as in not-American. And People Can Fly and Croteam are Developers, not Publishers.
I'm already aware of the fact that Croteam is Croatian. I just don't see how that matters. Their game was released in the United States on retail shelves and it was not censored. That was the only context in which I mentioned Croteam.
And yes, People Can Fly and Croteam are developers, but that, too, does not matter. In most cases, they should still be able to exert a certain degree of control over the release of their game, in much the same way that Nippon Ichi had to sign off on all of the changes that Mastiff made to La Pucelle. If, however, there's some evidence that either of them got screwed on their publishing deals, then yes, I would be wrong. I haven't heard anything to that effect, though.
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| Spoon 301th Post
Bronze Customer
| "Re(1):La Pucelle: Tactics Censored" , posted Fri 30 Apr 15:36
So let me get this straight in terms of CENSORSED CONTENT:
- a guy who smokes no longer smokes
- some crosses were taken out/edited
- swastikas were removed entirely, with no replacement graphic (think Bionic Commando)
That's the extent of it?
The guys who wrote the intro of the article didn't seem to mention anything about censored dialogue or story content...
Now, if those graphic edits have ultimately no impact on the story or the game, I don't think it's a huge issue. For instance, if all we need is to know that "there is a religious symbol here" while the exact symbol itself is unimportant, then that could be ok.
If, on the other hand, we are seeing something on the order of changing the Nazis to the BADDS and slicing out the entire Hitler resurrection story, then I'll be annoyed... on the other hand, if the changes are minor enough, we could well see a patch/hack that reinserts all the edited graphics soon enough, though that could really be a testament to just how minor those changes were, maybe.
I will have an issue with the removal of the smoking if it is done in the same manner as in the Initial D arcade games, where they didn't bother to redraw Bunta's mouth: with the ciggy removed, Bunta has a perpetually slack-jawed appearance that makes him look like a yokel.
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| OmegaDog 1243th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(10):La Pucelle: Tactics Censored" , posted Sat 1 May 15:51
... yyyyyYeah, after the words "censorship" and "localization" passed... I believe I may have personally exaggerated the importance of these edits. [Furthermore, I'm remembering some localizing changes I actually liked -- but that's tangential for right now.]
That said:
quote:
If Mastiff is so scared of repressive boogymen going after them why did they decide to release La Pucelle in the first place? You think they would want to publish a game that would put less strain on their obviously frazzled nerves.
It's a good business opportunity, and it helps to get their name out to consumers and developers. Though, it's a shame we don't really have a way of directly comparing which backlash would've been bigger: that of gamers with the news of censorship, or that of activist nutjobs who might come across this game in its original form. I'd guess the primer, only becaus (1) as net-going gamers we can find responses from other gamers in several BBSes, and (2) it's actually happened -- but without stats, I'm running on heuristics. We don't know how these posted complaints actually translate to loss of sales, or how far these "well organized forces" work in the other situation.
... alas, we lack methods of comparing alternate universes.
"I must pay for my past sins... Let's fight!""I have no choice. You will lose!" | CCT: NEXT STAGE IS 18 |
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| Ishmael 1353th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(2):Re(10):La Pucelle: Tactics Censored" , posted Sun 2 May 13:45
quote:
It's a good business opportunity, and it helps to get their name out to consumers and developers.
And what better way to get the Mastiff name out there than through an 11th hour PR fiasco? Oh, I'm just joking with Mastiff, but while I'm here I'd like to take the opportunity to mock their dog logo as well. Mock mock mock!
quote:
Though, it's a shame we don't really have a way of directly comparing which backlash would've been bigger: that of gamers with the news of censorship, or that of activist nutjobs who might come across this game in its original form. I'd guess the primer, only becaus (1) as net-going gamers we can find responses from other gamers in several BBSes, and (2) it's actually happened -- but without stats, I'm running on heuristics. We don't know how these posted complaints actually translate to loss of sales, or how far these "well organized forces" work in the other situation.
... alas, we lack methods of comparing alternate universes.
I still plan on buying the game since the changes sound to be minor and I can understand the reasoning behind the changes even if I don't necessarily agree with them. Still, I do think it's a shame that Mastiff decided that the possibility that someone, somewhere might find aspects of the game offensive were of greater concern than the certainty that they would anger a number of potential customers.
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the universe and human stupidity
