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| Ammadeau 867th Post
 
Red Carpet Regular Member++
    
    
    
|  "Re(4):Mermaid Academy 3rd page + more designs"
, posted Thu 15 Apr 21:32:
From Fuchikoma's suggestions, I've updated page 3 a bit to give the spotlights a little more power. They're probably still very weak, but I'm hesitant to make them powerful to the point I'm losing detail.
I haven't adjusted the shoulders on this page, but I've been srinking those huge shoulder blades while cleaning up the lines of page four. I think my problem is I've been paying way too much attention to how other artists draw the main body of the character and just flubbing my way though the apendages. Though now that I'm getting decent at stomachs and such, I can give those more attention.
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I'm tryin' to make time, but schools not letting me >_<
I've already got the story I want to write planned out, It's just a matter of finding the time to draw it (although until I do, enjoy the first 'character inspiration art' that is my tag, I'll admit it's not the most pratical zombie fighting attire but oh well... I'm just worried people will be upset I dropped the 'steam punk wild west' world she used to live in favor of an 'evil dead/hellboy style monster infested' one)
I'm definitely been enjoying your new sig. :)
Time is a pain. I'm moving this weekend and instead of packing I've been playing SMT3, so there goes all my free time. I forced myself to pack my PS2 already so hopefully it won't trouble me for the next few days. :p
I don't see why you can't do an evil dead/western/steampunk setting, or at least two of three. I was actually really looking forward to the western angle. There's a number of anime and Japanese videogames that try to use that, but most of them end up being meh at best. The comic is taking place in a world you make, so you can pretty much make up any rules you like. That's part of the fun... and part of the trouble. While I was trying to fall alseep last night, I realized all the mechanical and archeticual design work I have ahead of me just to be able to do the first dozen pages of Mermaid Academy. ^_^;;
EDIT - Almost forgot, I haven't been able to think of a name for the underwater city. Actually, since there are three of these in total (the other two still in various states of construction) I need three names that should go together in some way, probably the names of ancient gods would be best. The first two were designed by the same man, though he died before the third one was started so that one is only based on his design, but will be substantially different. The other two cities probably won't be seen in the comic (except from a distance), but they'll be mentioned.
[this message was edited by Ammadeau on Thu 15 Apr 22:10] |
| Dr Baghead 2948th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
| "Re(5):Mermaid Academy 3rd page + more designs" , posted Thu 15 Apr 22:22
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From Fuchikoma's suggestions, I've updated page 3 a bit to give the spotlights a little more power. They're probably still very weak, but I'm hesitant to make them powerful to the point I'm losing detail.
You probably should make the light a lot brighter... the cast shadows on the characters are probably fine but the light should be like 90% opacity white for the effect you're going for, as it is now it looks like the lights are underwater or farther way from the camera.
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I'm definitely been enjoying your new sig. :)
I'm glad, it took me 12 hours over the course of a month to color >_<... Here, enjoy the full sized version
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I don't see why you can't do an evil dead/western/steampunk setting, or at least two of three. I was actually really looking forward to the western angle. There's a number of anime and Japanese videogames that try to use that, but most of them end up being meh at best. The comic is taking place in a world you make, so you can pretty much make up any rules you like. That's part of the fun... and part of the trouble.
Well okay, I was too quick to say I'm dropping the steampunk aspect... I like the idea of ancient civilations having 'modern' technology to much to get rid of it all together, it just don't play into the first story arc.
But the western setting is gone, it's too limiting to keep the characters in a 'desert'... it'll still have westerny themes and character types but just set in the modern world (although, I did like a lot of my western era costumes designs, so the whole "Jessi James" story might be condensed into a one shot story arc at some point... HEY! "Jessi James: One Shot" is even a pretty good title for it! Yeah, that's a go in the near future then!)
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While I was trying to fall alseep last night, I realized all the mechanical and archeticual design work I have ahead of me just to be able to do the first dozen pages of Mermaid Academy. ^_^;;
If you're going for traditional designs in your archeticure and mechanics I suggest you look at the following:
-Disney's Atlantis (lots of Vernes style machines and nice anicent bulids)
-Disney's the Little Mermaid (sea bulidings)
-the League of Extraordinary Gentleman (comic and movie... for the Natalius' design mainly)
-the episodes of the 'Justice League' cartoon with Aquaman (a nice modern twist on classical Atlantis)
-Aquaman comics? (I've never read them but I assume there's some Atlantis shots in there)
-Fathom/Aspen comics (more organic looking underwater cities, vechiles are pretty odd in an interesting way... plus, from what I understand about Micheal Turner anyway, some issues have hot chicks in them)
-Futurama (the Atlanta episode and one set on Zoidberg's world have a lot of Aquatic themery... but if you want futuristicy underwater cities there's good design work on the spaceships and some buldings with large windows that would provide nice inspiration)
Wow... such nerdy reference I suggest
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| Ammadeau 867th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(6):Mermaid Academy 3rd page + more designs" , posted Thu 15 Apr 23:10
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You probably should make the light a lot brighter... the cast shadows on the characters are probably fine but the light should be like 90% opacity white for the effect you're going for, as it is now it looks like the lights are underwater or farther way from the camera.
Back to the lighting board again. I tried cranking the brightness to max, but the effect looked pretty bad. I'll experiment with it and find a way of making it brighter without being too washed out.
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I'm glad, it took me 12 hours over the course of a month to color >_<... Here, enjoy the full sized version
Looks even better standing up. Why did it take you so long though? I think page 3 only took me six hours or so, though thankfully the file doesn't keep track of the time I've wasted on it. :p
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Well okay, I was too quick to say I'm dropping the steampunk aspect... I like the idea of ancient civilations having 'modern' technology to much to get rid of it all together, it just don't play into the first story arc.
Hmm, sounds interesting enough to drop the western idea. Like to see how you develop it. The problem I have with a lot of steampunk is they make things too modern. I mean, in Sakura Taisen they have tech that's impossible now (the huge aircraft that assembles mid-air is plain silly). So I'd say don't be afraid to push things (you can even throw in magic to curb the bet a little) but a steam-powered star destroyer isn't really practical. :p
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If you're going for traditional designs in your archeticure and mechanics I suggest you look at the following:
Nice references, but really I have an idea of the designs and what forms they'll take, it's just a matter of drawing them out. There's just a lot of them and I've never been too keen on purely mechanical stuff.
Those mythlogical names sound cool, which is all I really care about. I'll definitely use them. Thanks for them and all your other comments.
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| Dr Baghead 2952th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Mermaid Academy 3rd page + more designs" , posted Fri 16 Apr 20:36
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Back to the lighting board again. I tried cranking the brightness to max, but the effect looked pretty bad. I'll experiment with it and find a way of making it brighter without being too washed out.
Do you know how to make a lense flare? (not use the filter, which any monkey and do and normally does wrong, but actually use differemt layers at different opaticities to create the same effect with more control)... if you do know how it might add a nice effect, but if you don't forget I said anything.
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Looks even better standing up. Why did it take you so long though? I think page 3 only took me six hours or so, though thankfully the file doesn't keep track of the time I've wasted on it. :p
It took so long because I was experimenting with new a new coloring style (which I'm not entirely happy with.) and I couldn't decide what color to make the background or her hair (it's supposed to be a silver tinted lavander, something I can't quiet achieve in Photoshop yer)
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Hmm, sounds interesting enough to drop the western idea. Like to see how you develop it. The problem I have with a lot of steampunk is they make things too modern. I mean, in Sakura Taisen they have tech that's impossible now (the huge aircraft that assembles mid-air is plain silly). So I'd say don't be afraid to push things (you can even throw in magic to curb the bet a little) but a steam-powered star destroyer isn't really practical. :p
No star destroyers... I'm not going too over board with ancient technology because the comic is set in modern time (which means there needs to be good reason it's all gone/forgotten or 'modern times' needs to be hella futuristic)
I don't have all the guidlines set yet, but the 'craziest' thing is probably a weather machine from pre-Atlantian times. (and robots in Greece)
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Nice references, but really I have an idea of the designs and what forms they'll take, it's just a matter of drawing them out. There's just a lot of them and I've never been too keen on purely mechanical stuff.
not keen on "purely mechanical"? does this mean we'll be seeing bio-mechanical devices and construction? Because those are always cool.
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Those mythlogical names sound cool, which is all I really care about. I'll definitely use them. Thanks for them and all your other comments.
No problem, helping is fun!
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| Ammadeau 874th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "4th actionless action page" , posted Mon 19 Apr 22:25:
Mermaid Academy 4
Page 4 is supposed to have some action elements to it, but I have no idea how to draw that kind of thing. Suggestions are welcome.
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Do you know how to make a lense flare? (not use the filter, which any monkey and do and normally does wrong, but actually use differemt layers at different opaticities to create the same effect with more control)... if you do know how it might add a nice effect, but if you don't forget I said anything.
I know what you mean, but I don't think of these images as being taken by a camera or anything so there's no real lens here to flare off of, so it doesn't feel like a fitting effect here.
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not keen on "purely mechanical"? does this mean we'll be seeing bio-mechanical devices and construction? Because those are always cool.
Actually, I meant not keen on doing the design work for them. In fact, the next page is purely setting with few characters usually very small and I really don't want to draw it, but I know it needs to be there to help explain things.
[this message was edited by Ammadeau on Mon 19 Apr 22:26] |
| Ammadeau 875th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "drawing board - see returning to" , posted Tue 20 Apr 21:52
Okay, I decided to start over on page 4 from scratch, trying to create more dynamic camera angles and better poses (and expressions) AND resist the temptation of just copying Fuchikoma's quick sketch version. This is going to take me a while, but since I started this comic mainly for drawing practice, just saying 'eh, it's good enough as is' seems like a cop-out. I would have reused some of the previous version, but I changed the panels, making that impossible. I guess I'm a massicist at heart.
I've already got most of the poses down. Now comes the long, labourous task of making them look vaguely human.
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You should lead into the explanation later, perhaps when "Cunei" is revealed? Besides, it seems somewhat explanitory on its own. Or you could have the girl make some comment about "this stuff is so warm and sticky". I like how it comes out in controlled strands rather than just one large sticky mess. I see you decided to use Remoras. :)
Heh, funny thing is adding 'It's all warm and sticky!' to the dialogue was the very first thing I did for the new version. My psychic powers must be coming back. :p
Megumi invented it so I guess I can work a longer explination of it in someplace, though it feels so exposition-like it's hard to want to work it in.
Megumi designed it to be in strand form after field testing (mostly done by Natsuko on very surprised dilquent students). A glop bullet contains a bunch of little pellets with sheaths that force them to expand like strands initially, then the sheath breaks, is absorbed into their mass, and helps them adhere to each other. This makes the bullets themselves delicate, but it also means you can use them as grenades.
I put in just plain 'Remoras' as a temp until I could think of a longer name, but in the end it seems to work fine as is. It was a good suggestion.
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Fuchikoma has a point about the angles of the shots though... considering doing what he did before you draw each page, you may even want to draw two or three (or more) such test layouts just to see what works best. (or if that's more work then you're willing to put into the comic, shift the camera to a 3/4th view rather then head on to give a little more depth to the shots.)
I sometimes experiment with different layouts, but I tend to be lazy and overly accepting of something I've put significant work into. For the new version of the page, almost none of the angles are head on. The only one is close up of Natsuko and Megumi's faces and that's been split into two oddly shaped panels, which I think helps it from being too static.
The problem is I'm really not used to odd camera angles so I'm sure my perspective will be out of whack and take a lot of refining. Like for instance, the panel where the girl gets glopped I decided to draw with a very low angle so her legs look really big compared to her face, but even with the very rough sketch my instincts scream 'out of proportion!' It's not easy, but it is something I want to adjust to.
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| Ammadeau 878th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(2):drawing board - see returning to" , posted Wed 21 Apr 03:40:
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Twelve hours to make a prototype? Good grief, making a web comic in the page format must be a lot of work Oo
It is for me, but then I draw slowly and spend a ton of time tweaking the drawings and stuff afterwards. I suppose if my interest was getting the pages out rather than getting them right I'd work much faster. And of course pros don't have all the problems I do so they can crank out fourteen pages a week and still have time to fill their obsessive porn habits. :p
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I love the concept of this weapon though part of me (the geekier part) wants to shout "webbing". You do know that you're gonna need to bomb somebody good with this stuff.
Heh, I never thought of it, but it is like webbing, only on a larger scale. And edible.
It's going to get used quite a bit by Natsuko and Megumi. In fact, the very next time will be Megumi hitting a perverted boy point blank in the chest, causing him to be knocked back and stick to a cave wall.
quote devil: THICK LEGS 
The influence of Ryoji on me. :p
(I bought his latest CG collection and have studied the images very closely... too closely)
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[delayed reaction] Wait a sec, does one of the instructors have gills? If so, I like how you very subtlely included them on the uniform.
You mean Lt. Fukata? Yep, she had the operation relatively recently so she isn't quite used to them yet. She also happens to be Megumi's legal guardian and the person who created their team, which will all come out relatively soon.
They probably blend in well because I had forgotten to do them and had to redesign the uniform a bit to add them in. ^_^;;
[this message was edited by Ammadeau on Wed 21 Apr 03:42] |
| Ammadeau 878th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(4):drawing board - see returning to" , posted Wed 21 Apr 20:39
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Who?
http://homepage3.nifty.com/aws/
Also character designer for La Pucelle / Puppet Princess game series.
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Don't most mangaka have assistants to help them with... er, stuff? And of course, manga doesn't require coloring. Ah well, regardless, things probably will get faster and easier with experience :)
Yeah, they usually have an assistant or two to correct errors and fill in background details and such. I'm not so lucky. And it's the experimenting that eats up the time, moreso than the drawing. It took quite a while to get the lighting effect right, but now that I know how to do it, it's only a matter of minutes.
I'll also be dropping the coloring after page six to speed things up, though I plan to color specific pages in the future, like the first appearance of CU-01.
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| Ammadeau 887th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "page four... again" , posted Sun 25 Apr 22:20:
Mermaid Academy 4 v2.0
I finally finish this and my webhost goes down. Ugh, my luck continues to be bad. Thank Professor for the image board.
I know there are still problems with it, but I can't really grasp what those problems are or how to fix them, so if you're not completely annoyed with it by now, more advice would be nice. I tried to add 'action lines' for the shot and the expansion of the glop, though I'm not sure if I like them or not.
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A bounty hunting florist rocks. Make sure you incorporate flowers in her outfit design. If she does a large amount of this on the surface or with heavy sunlamps you MIGHT want to give her a mild tan.
Yeah, she probably would have a mild tan, especially if she tried growing flowers in the most hostile earth surface. Adding flower designs to her outfit is a neat idea, though not sure how to pull it off without making it look too hippy.
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Not entirely keen on some of the crushes but I'm not the writer so it's not my call.
Well, they're there to make the story more complicated and give reasons for the twins to be working for the bounty hunter and the existance of the Remora fanclub respectively. Not something that will play out in the story to a large degree.
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My advise on the designs is to make sure the mature characters actually look mature. It's a common mistake with young artists using an anime style to have older characters with these huge round eyes... and then just draw two bags under them. For mature women I suggest a more narrow face, less rounded eyes, and fuller lips... a good example would be Kyoko from Rival Schools. For mature males, make sure you define the brow and nose a little more, a good reference would be Satoshi Urushihara's mature male characters.
For those who like older women
That's what I was trying to do here. I only added a lower lip line and shaded the lips instead of drawing them because for some reason when I drew them they ended up looking too thick and sort of silly. I guess I need more practice.
[this message was edited by Ammadeau on Sun 25 Apr 22:21] |
| ZamIAm 1268th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(2):page four... again" , posted Mon 26 Apr 05:37
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Mermaid Academy 4 v2.0
I finally finish this and my webhost goes down. Ugh, my luck continues to be bad. Thank Professor for the image board.
I know there are still problems with it, but I can't really grasp what those problems are or how to fix them, so if you're not completely annoyed with it by now, more advice would be nice. I tried to add 'action lines' for the shot and the expansion of the glop, though I'm not sure if I like them or not.
Looks good, a definate improvement.
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A bounty hunting florist rocks. Make sure you incorporate flowers in her outfit design. If she does a large amount of this on the surface or with heavy sunlamps you MIGHT want to give her a mild tan.
Yeah, she probably would have a mild tan, especially if she tried growing flowers in the most hostile earth surface. Adding flower designs to her outfit is a neat idea, though not sure how to pull it off without making it look too hippy.
What's wrong with hippies? Just kidding. What are you planning for the design? If you describe it, I might be able to suggest something. You might want to check out info about the chaparral biome for examples of plants, like cacti, that thrive in high heat. A cactus can produce flowers and they are edible so that seems like a good idea.
http://www.blueplanetbiomes.org/chaparral.htm
http://www2.kpr.edu.on.ca/cdciw/biomes/chaparral.htm
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Not entirely keen on some of the crushes but I'm not the writer so it's not my call.
Well, they're there to make the story more complicated and give reasons for the twins to be working for the bounty hunter and the existance of the Remora fanclub respectively. Not something that will play out in the story to a large degree.
It's not the what but rather the who. I don't like guy-on-guy or girl-on-girl anything. The actual choices, an employer and an obsessed fan club, are good so it's just my matter of preference. I'm not going to force my views on your story, which seems to have solid direction behind it and I'm glad to see it progressing.
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For those who like older women
That's what I was trying to do here. I only added a lower lip line and shaded the lips instead of drawing them because for some reason when I drew them they ended up looking too thick and sort of silly. I guess I need more practice.
Perhaps you could put those on the pic board as well while your server is fixed?
"It is Godzilla season.
We must kill him many times."
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| Dr Baghead 2973th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):page four... again" , posted Mon 26 Apr 12:54
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Mermaid Academy 4 v2.0
I know there are still problems with it, but I can't really grasp what those problems are or how to fix them, so if you're not completely annoyed with it by now, more advice would be nice. I tried to add 'action lines' for the shot and the expansion of the glop, though I'm not sure if I like them or not.
I like it!
Try tapering the limbs a bit you're drawing them very "tubey" when they should be more like 'cones' (well not really cones but more like umm.... well look at your own arm! see how it at the elbow it's thicker then at the wrist? you should try to make the characters arms and legs work like that)
Also as Fuchikoma said you need to work on the motions a bit more, they're still looking a bit stiff looking you want want to consider looking up photo reference for some poses using Google Image search... also study how to draw hands.
OH hey! My Character Design teacher gave us some hand outs on how to break down arms, legs, and hands into simple shapes for drawing would you like me to scan those for you? They're actually pretty helpful.
this is a marked improvement if one was to look at pages 1-3, then the original page 4, then new page 4 they'd have to say "Ammadeau has improvement!"... and don't think it's annoying to ask for help! That's how you learn! by asking! (and even professional artist don't draw things perfect to begin with... their editors look stuff over and say "that's wrong, change this!" and such... what you're doing is the same basic deal!)
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For those who like older women
That's what I was trying to do here. I only added a lower lip line and shaded the lips instead of drawing them because for some reason when I drew them they ended up looking too thick and sort of silly. I guess I need more practice.
That's much better in making them look more mature... how much older are they? If they're "not much" older then that's pretty good, but if they're "more then twice as old" you might want to push the futures even more and add a few small wrinkles around the eyes
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It's not the what but rather the who. I don't like guy-on-guy or girl-on-girl anything.
ANYTHING!?!?! I didn't think that was humanly possible... are you like an alien or something Zam?
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| Ammadeau 891th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(2):page four... again" , posted Mon 26 Apr 21:29:
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Wow, page 4 is a HUGE improvement. The coloring is good, it's definitely more dynamic, and the page flows well. The panel shapes and placement make very good use of direction forces... my eye can travel through the page very easily. The only weakness I can see is the movement of the bodies. The poses just seem a little bit stiff.
Thanks! I feel that I learned a lot from doing that one page, though obviously I still have some distance to go. The pose stiffness is something that's been plaguing me for a long time, but I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing that causes it. I'm working on a random image now trying to take apart the way I approach drawing with the hope that I can make the figues appear a little more fluid in the future, though I still don't quite understand what I'm doing wrong, even though I can see that it turns out wrong.
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As for the design... I'll say something whenever your server is back up. 
Doh! Well, it's back up now. They're attempts at mature women, but don't seem quite right as they are.
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What's wrong with hippies? Just kidding. What are you planning for the design? If you describe it, I might be able to suggest something. You might want to check out info about the chaparral biome for examples of plants, like cacti, that thrive in high heat. A cactus can produce flowers and they are edible so that seems like a good idea.
Besides mirror shades and short hair, I hadn't really started planning her out. She's a very gruff and brash personality so it seems she wouldn't wear too feminine clothes, but she's also a seducer to some degree so there should be at least some hint of sexiness there. She doesn't appear until page 11 so I still have time to plan her out.
The links are helpful, especially for what the surface of the Earth is like in the area near the underwater city, though not sure how I could incorperate them into the design of an outfit.
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It's not the what but rather the who. I don't like guy-on-guy or girl-on-girl anything. The actual choices, an employer and an obsessed fan club, are good so it's just my matter of preference. I'm not going to force my views on your story, which seems to have solid direction behind it and I'm glad to see it progressing.
I'm pretty indifferent to gender relationships in stories, though Mermaid Academy isn't a relationship story and neither Megumi nor Natsuko are interested in having a relationship with anyone, whatever their gender might be. It's just there to make things more complicated.
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I like it!
Try tapering the limbs a bit you're drawing them very "tubey" when they should be more like 'cones' (well not really cones but more like umm.... well look at your own arm! see how it at the elbow it's thicker then at the wrist? you should try to make the characters arms and legs work like that)
The funny thing about that is I know this in my head, but it NEVER comes out that way on the page for me. It's like there's a broken curcuit on the way from my brain to my fingers that loses that information and being lazy I just give up on it. I'll try harder in the future, though it seems oddly hard for me to do.
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Also as Fuchikoma said you need to work on the motions a bit more, they're still looking a bit stiff looking you want want to consider looking up photo reference for some poses using Google Image search... also study how to draw hands.
I do study poses from photos and from works of artists I like, but I don't like using direct references while I'm drawing, though I guess it would be helpful to do so for just rough practice sketches to figure out exactly what I'm doing wrong.
As for hands... screw hands. I've got enough other problems to worry about. :p
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OH hey! My Character Design teacher gave us some hand outs on how to break down arms, legs, and hands into simple shapes for drawing would you like me to scan those for you? They're actually pretty helpful.
Sure, if you don't mind. It might help me figure out just where the problem is in my approach to drawing that's causing this problems.
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this is a marked improvement if one was to look at pages 1-3, then the original page 4, then new page 4 they'd have to say "Ammadeau has improvement!"... and don't think it's annoying to ask for help! That's how you learn! by asking! (and even professional artist don't draw things perfect to begin with... their editors look stuff over and say "that's wrong, change this!" and such... what you're doing is the same basic deal!)
This board is my editors and you're all far kinder than I deserve. :)
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That's much better in making them look more mature... how much older are they? If they're "not much" older then that's pretty good, but if they're "more then twice as old" you might want to push the futures even more and add a few small wrinkles around the eyes
They're not at the wrinkle age yet. The headmistress and military woman are no more than early thirties. The teachers... well, they're really much, much older. :p
[this message was edited by Ammadeau on Mon 26 Apr 21:49] |
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