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| Henaki
128th Post
 
Regular Customer
   
|  "SCII is NOT an amazing game."
, posted Sat 6 Mar 21:49
I have to throw a punch at anyone who thinks SCII is an amazing game. If anything, it is the WORST fighting game released last year, with the exception of MAYBE SvC:C.
What's so great about SCII?
Character balance? VF4: Evo and GGXX/#R beat it.
Character design? GGXX/#R beat it.
Solid/deep gameplay? GGXX/#R and VF4:Evo beat it by MILES UPON MILES.
Intresting system? GGXX/#R and Evo beat it again.
Now, I'm not just comparing these games, I'm going to say something very blunt right here.
SCII has no depth, mediocre balance, and terribly bland gameplay.
It is by far the most boring 3D tournament fighter I have ever played. Period. I have played better 3D fighers in many cases. VF4: Evo has amazing depth and balance, Tekken has better character designs and the 3D Mortal Kombat games have a more intresting system.
Yet how does such a bland game become more popular than VF4: Evo in the states? I have no fucking clue.
I just want to say to everyone, that SCII is not an amazing game, it is not the best 3D figher of 2003, it is well made, but it's just so fucking boring, I have no clue why people play it.
If anything, SCII is one of those games that's well made, but just has been done too many times before to be intresting. And SC was pretty much exactly the same.
So...how about those...things....
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Replies:
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| EternalNewbie
90th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):SCII is NOT an amazing game." , posted Sun 7 Mar 01:50
I think the reason SCII is so popular is that it follows one of the basic premises for making a good game. "Easy to learn, difficult to master." As it was already said, people can pick it up and actually hold their ground quickly. However, it is deep enough for people to still spend a good amount of time mastering characters. VF4 Evo is difficult to master, but not that easy to learn. GGXX: Reloaded is good because it is fairly easy to learn, but the speed of the game can make limit its initial casual gamer audience. Also, there are still flaws in the GGXX: Reloaded system when it comes to balance. I am not saying SCII is not totally balanced any better or worst than GGXX: Reloaded, but here is why I think SCII is selling well compared to them. The speed is at a moderate level, not too fast or slow; and easy to learn and difficult to master. GGXX: Reloaded limits the casual audience that can get into due to speed, VF4 Evo can be brutal to casual gamers who play only occasionally as opposed to hardcore gamers, so SCII has the widest audience appeal. Maybe a type of scale would help...
O = appeal ; X = Not Appeal
Appeal Range: VF4 Evo
Casual Moderate Hardcore
<XXXXXXXXXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO>
GGXX: Reloaded
<XXXXXXXOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOXX>
*note Reason for the two Xs in Hardcore is
because some very hardcore people might
scrutinze a few balance problems*
SCII
<OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOXXXXXOOXX>
See? Widest range. Kinda hard to describe, but I hope that helps. Also, it may seem just me, but this topic sounds like oil soaked wood asking to be burnt and flamed. But hey, a question deserves an answer.
EternalNewbie:
Brainwashing and turning your kids into alien weapons since the 1980s.
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| Burning Ranger 657th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
  
    
| "Re(5):SCII is NOT an amazing game." , posted Sun 7 Mar 07:56
Consider that everyone has their own opinion, which isn't necessarily right or wrong (except for all those people who believe the Playstation is the greatest game machine ever devised by men...). Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Personally, I think SCII didn't make a difference in the world. I read some reviews saying that some of the effects and graphics were 'outdated.' Story-wise, the game didn't really add anything new, except those few new characters. Gameplay wise, well, it still felt like SC1. But I liked the game, though I don't hold it as high on the 3D fighting scale as VF4 Evo (hell, the whole Tekken series is way down at the bottom of my list).
Then again, people have their own opinions.
Advanced Cyborg E. Branger AKA Burning Ranger
"Never underestimate the predictabilty of stupidity." -Vinnie Jones from SNATCH
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| Hungrywolf 2716th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
 
| "Re(1):SCII is NOT an amazing game." , posted Sun 7 Mar 10:17
quote:
I have to throw a punch at anyone who thinks SCII is an amazing game. If anything, it is the WORST fighting game released last year, with the exception of MAYBE SvC:C.
What's so great about SCII?
Character balance? VF4: Evo and GGXX/#R beat it.
Character design? GGXX/#R beat it.
Solid/deep gameplay? GGXX/#R and VF4:Evo beat it by MILES UPON MILES.
Intresting system? GGXX/#R and Evo beat it again.
Now, I'm not just comparing these games, I'm going to say something very blunt right here.
SCII has no depth, mediocre balance, and terribly bland gameplay.
It is by far the most boring 3D tournament fighter I have ever played. Period. I have played better 3D fighers in many cases. VF4: Evo has amazing depth and balance, Tekken has better character designs and the 3D Mortal Kombat games have a more intresting system.
Yet how does such a bland game become more popular than VF4: Evo in the states? I have no fucking clue.
I just want to say to everyone, that SCII is not an amazing game, it is not the best 3D figher of 2003, it is well made, but it's just so fucking boring, I have no clue why people play it.
If anything, SCII is one of those games that's well made, but just has been done too many times before to be intresting. And SC was pretty much exactly the same.
Well throw a punch at me you jackass.
I think that was a mature response.
"no again my apoligizes for anyone i offend!!!!!"
Hungry Like the Wolf
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| OYashiroForever 736th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(2):SCII is NOT an amazing game." , posted Sun 7 Mar 11:06
quote:
Hey, I've got an idea! Let's start making pointless, immature "X Game Sucks" threads where we spend our time spouting subjective, vitriolic opinions and backing them up with absolutely no facts whatsoever! And then later we can start making Age/Sex/Location Check threads, spread some dumbass rumors (Did you know they're making a Marvel vs. Capcom 3?), bitch about how our middle school English teacher is "t3h f4g", and rename ourselves the Shoryuken.com Cafe.
PWNED. :)
Seriously, while I agree with you DZ, the difference between there and here is that most of us can read a thread like this and respond intelligently and with tact. Well, everyone except Hungrywolf apparently. :)
"Only two things are infinite the universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former."
"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see through you."
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| Hagen de Merak 608th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(1):SCII is NOT an amazing game." , posted Sun 7 Mar 19:39
quote:
I have to throw a punch at anyone who thinks SCII is an amazing game. If anything, it is the WORST fighting game released last year, with the exception of MAYBE SvC:C.
What's so great about SCII?
Character balance? VF4: Evo and GGXX/#R beat it.
Character design? GGXX/#R beat it.
Solid/deep gameplay? GGXX/#R and VF4:Evo beat it by MILES UPON MILES.
Intresting system? GGXX/#R and Evo beat it again.
Now, I'm not just comparing these games, I'm going to say something very blunt right here.
SCII has no depth, mediocre balance, and terribly bland gameplay.
It is by far the most boring 3D tournament fighter I have ever played. Period. I have played better 3D fighers in many cases. VF4: Evo has amazing depth and balance, Tekken has better character designs and the 3D Mortal Kombat games have a more intresting system.
Yet how does such a bland game become more popular than VF4: Evo in the states? I have no fucking clue.
I just want to say to everyone, that SCII is not an amazing game, it is not the best 3D figher of 2003, it is well made, but it's just so fucking boring, I have no clue why people play it.
If anything, SCII is one of those games that's well made, but just has been done too many times before to be intresting. And SC was pretty much exactly the same.
why buy it when i can download it?
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| UnCauzi
98th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(1):Heh" , posted Sun 7 Mar 20:29
quote:
Honestly, I thought the only reason I posted here was because I wouldn't get the "YOU ARE A FAG" response I'd get everywhere else, and some generally good input on my opinion rather than why Link is so much cooler than whatever. Generally my hopes were right.
Anyway, I understand why the game is appealing, but I don't that it should be when there are so many better games.
It's basically like "why settle for a good pizza, when you can settle for a full meal of turkey, mashed potatoes, wine etc that's still made by an equally skilled chef"
Damn I'm tired, but I'll do this quick post, and first off let me say I don't agree with you at all.
How good a game actually is, is in the eye of the beholder. In the USA you have your share of hardcore SC2 players just like any other genre and if you want to know why these people play the game you need to ask them and not your average gaming schmoes. Go ask Aris who recently won a world tournament in the game over at www.soulcalibur.com he'll be glad to give you his 2 cents but I won't blame him for calling you a bundle of sticks. I just think you were looking for a mutual circle jerk of "Yeah! That game sux!"
Lines like "Why would you ever like blah blah blah" SHOULDN'T merit a well thought out response response. It will get you a well deserved "YOU ARE A FAG" because in essence you're just being a crackhead for acting like playing SC2 is as sinful as voting for Bush for another term. I mean why bother explaining to someone who believes that you're tastes in games is unfathomable?
If people play their game more than your game then maybe, just maybe their games more enjoyable to more people than your game? We're sorry if the masses are totally deluded and you have the key to gaming civilization in GGXX. A game that gets zero play at the arcade I go too. Zero play may I add from people who actually know HOW to play it. So it's not ignorance on their part and it's not because they are not Japanese. It's just different strokes for different folx.
Personally I dig SC2, high level play in it is frustrating and very mental. Slow gameplay tends to be that way. Its way more pissy to see yourself get snagged by a move you saw coming a mile away versus a 2 frame move in GGXX.
I look at SC2 as Samurai Shodown 2 in 3D honestly. It's methodical, and the moves are pretty basic when it comes down to it.
Oh and btw, SCII isn't just like SC1 in my opinion. The power of step makes it play like a totally new.....shittier game. Vertical moves die to step, and horizontals seem to die randomly also. I won't get into specifics I've already written to much, that's what sites like wwww.soulcalibur.com are for.
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| Hungrywolf 2717th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):SCII is NOT an amazing game." , posted Mon 8 Mar 06:09
quote:
Hey, I've got an idea! Let's start making pointless, immature "X Game Sucks" threads where we spend our time spouting subjective, vitriolic opinions and backing them up with absolutely no facts whatsoever! And then later we can start making Age/Sex/Location Check threads, spread some dumbass rumors (Did you know they're making a Marvel vs. Capcom 3?), bitch about how our middle school English teacher is "t3h f4g", and rename ourselves the Shoryuken.com Cafe.
PWNED. :)
Seriously, while I agree with you DZ, the difference between there and here is that most of us can read a thread like this and respond intelligently and with tact. Well, everyone except Hungrywolf apparently. :)
Crap, I knew that post was too immature...
"no again my apoligizes for anyone i offend!!!!!"
Hungry Like the Wolf
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| Dr Baghead 2859th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "TR thinks it's all that, but it's not!!!" , posted Mon 8 Mar 18:09
Your pointless, uncalled for angry rant is a great template!!! EDIT ATTACK LEVEL 3 GO:
I have to throw a punch at anyone who thinks Tomb Raider is an amazing game series. If anything, it is the WORST exporing-based game released ever, with the exception of any Pitfall after the original
What's so great about Tomb Raider?
First female action hero? Metroid beat it
Character design? Metroid beat it
Solid/deep gameplay? yeah right, plus Metroid beat it by MILES UPON MILES.
Intresting system? Playstation 'exclusive'... so UNinteresting!
Get to see main character take their clothes off? In Metroid it's actually real and not a rumor!
Best Indian Jones game? Emperor's Tomb
Good at stealing ideas from others to use in their games? to dust off a old (lame) chestnut: SIMPSONS DID IT!
Worse Videogame-to-Movie? House of the Dead beat it
Now, I'm not just comparing these games, I'm going to say something very blunt right here.
Tomb Raider has no depth, mediocre design, and terribly bland gameplay.
It is by far the most boring 3D adventure I have ever played. Period. I have played better 3D adventure in many cases. Indian Jones and the Emperor's Tomb has amazing depth, Metroid Prime has better character designs and the Devil May Cry games have a more intresting system.
Yet how does such a bland game become more popular than Metroid in the world at large? I have no fucking clue.
I just want to say to everyone, that Tomb Raider is not an amazing game, it is not the best 3D adventure game ever, it is not well made, but it's just so fucking boring, I have no clue why people play it.
If anything, Tomb Raider is one of those games that's not well made, but just has been done too many times before to be intresting. And TR was pretty much exactly the same each time.
This picture is unusally orange no?
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| KoOkyKyoji
28th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(7):SCII is NOT an amazing game." , posted Mon 8 Mar 18:42
quote:
I mean seriously, what was the point of this thread? Sure I liked SCI better than II. Mainly cuz Seung Mina and Hwang got the shaft and YunSung sucks. Plus Kilik sucks ass. But SCII is built upon the rock solid SCI engine. And we ALL know how revolutionary SCI was to the 3D fighting game genre. SCI was one of the most influential fighting games ever. (I believe it was the first game to implement the 8 way run too) As for GGXX Reloaded, that game has serious balance issues. SCI plus prettier graphics and new moves...sure SCII wasn't all that revolutionary. But you can't go wrong with a formula like that.
First of all, Soul Calibur wasn't the first game to have the true 8-way-run, Tobal 2 had it first.
Secondly, Soul Calibur 2 is more like a tweakened version of SC1, like how 3S was the true version of SF3. Hell Namco even tweakened Soul Edge with Soul Edge Version B, which became the PSX Soul Blade.
GGXX #Reloaded isn't full of balance issues, that was the original GGXX #Reload Version Red that had balance issues, Arc Systems fixed all the problems (supposively) with the #Reload Blue Version.
Kilik and Seung Mina don't suck in SC2, everybody is perfectly usable in that game. Namco really made a well balanced game with it, though Yun Sung truly really does suck though and doesn't have a fighting chance. LOL
Not flaming, just pointing out your mistakes. ;)
P.S. To that guy saying SC2 is just Run -> Stop -> Attack whatever BS, I dunno what the hell you're doing, but that clearly shows that you don't know what the hell you're doing.
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| Phoenix 289th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(8):SCII is NOT an amazing game." , posted Tue 9 Mar 04:32
"First of all, Soul Calibur wasn't the first game to have the true 8-way-run, Tobal 2 had it first."
I didn't know that. But SCI features perfect 8 way run utilization. (I own both games but haven't played Tobal 2 in years)
"Secondly, Soul Calibur 2 is more like a tweakened version of SC1, like how 3S was the true version of SF3. Hell Namco even tweakened Soul Edge with Soul Edge Version B, which became the PSX Soul Blade."
Plz note that I said SCII is built on the same solid engine. I didn't say they were identical. (I do know the differences and they are pretty minor) Also SCI is more balanced.
"GGXX #Reloaded isn't full of balance issues, that was the original GGXX #Reload Version Red that had balance issues, Arc Systems fixed all the problems (supposively) with the #Reload Blue Version."
Blue Version supposedly fixed all the problems from the Version Red? I'm no GGXX player but no comment.
"Kilik and Seung Mina don't suck in SC2, everybody is perfectly usable in that game. Namco really made a well balanced game with it, though Yun Sung truly really does suck though and doesn't have a fighting chance. LOL"
Seung Mina isn't even playable at the arcade. Kilik does suck compared to his SCI version. And the assassin (Hwang), who also isn't playable at the arcade, sucks. Yun...is hopeless.
Die thread! DIE! Rugal said it best.
"My only enemy is myself...and my ex-girlfriend and..."
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| UnCauzi
106th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(9):SCII is NOT an amazing game." , posted Tue 9 Mar 06:04
quote:
P.S. To that guy saying SC2 is just Run -> Stop -> Attack whatever BS, I dunno what the hell you're doing, but that clearly shows that you don't know what the hell you're doing.
I said that SC2 highlevel play is like that, the gameplay in general is fine. I just have a problem with how a lot of the tournament level play of SC2 is about dash towards opponent, stop(by guarding) and use a safteymove and repeating until one lands a solid hit or throw. Its either that or both characters SSing around the arena in odd movements trying to get the other to attack first and have them whiff the attack and punish them. SC2 at first used to be about rushing and guard impacting but from what I have seen highlevel play now is a freak'n turtlefest.
I love SC2 though I think it is a very fun game that I enjoy playing very much. And yeah I don't play it in tournaments, I'm not that competitive when it comes to 3D fighters(VF series maybe a little bit but then again I live in the US where Pro VF4 play doesn't really exist)but I play people in Cali that do play SC2 competitively and I have played enough of SC2 to understand the game...I just think the intermediate and casual play to be much more entertaining to watch than say tournament play.
oh and...
GGXX#Reload fixed problems found in GGXX and at the same time added more problems. The balance while still great compared to most fighters the "tiers" simply moved around a bit. A lot characters got a lot of strange and unnecessary tweaks to their gameplay(some got great boosts and some got shafted a bit) and some of the things supposedly fixed like the infamous Sol Airdust loop is only slightly toned down but still very abusable.
U.S. has it's "pro VF" scene these guys travel to Korean and Japan, not to mention drag great Asian players to the U.S. for their gatherings regularly for competition.
Their just elitist pricks with groups of 10-12 players in each major city. But their out there. I know of the NY crew, FL crew, and San Diego I think, but that's about it.
Hardcore VF players aren't much more than 40-50 if that in the U.S.
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| DarkZero 656th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(3):Re(10):SCII is NOT an amazing game." , posted Tue 9 Mar 22:19
quote:
I'm 99% sure the Genesis Virtua Fighter came after Toshinden.
but Toshiden is widely credited as being the first true 3D game with true 3D movement (Ballz I believe had a side-step but was 2D pretending to be 3d.... and yes, Toshiden's side-step is the side-step now found in every other 3D game) whether or not it actually is I don't know or care. (I know it had side-stepping before VF, Tekken, and the SFEX games at least)
I'm no longer sure about the Genesis version, but the arcade and Saturn versions of Virtua Fighter definitely came out before Toshinden. Klov.com listed Virtua Fighter as being released to arcades in 1993, GameFAQs claims that the Saturn port was released in November '94, and GameFAQs also states that Toshinden was released in January of '95.
quote:
When it comes down to it, does it really matter who did it first? Someone was bound to do it first anyway, so being first unless you can patent it is pretty well....nonglorious imo.
Hey, if you're entitled to YOUR silly conversation, then we're certainly entitled to ours. Sure, it doesn't really matter, but when has that ever stopped any of us?
Behold the boundless importance and deep meaning of... Guilty Gear swimsuit figures!
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"Re(2):SCII is NOT an amazing game." 
"lol" 
"Re(1):SCII is NOT an amazing game." 
