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| Radish 2269th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
    
|  "Re(1):Shin Megami Tensei 3 US Release"
, posted Mon 1 Mar 15:34:
quote:
I usually pay attention to the Shin Megami Tensei threads, so I don't think that anyone has brought this up yet, but I could be wrong. Sorry if it's a redundant post.
Anyway, Electronic Gaming Monthly has confirmed that SMT3 Nocturne Maniax is coming to North America as "Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne" in Fall 2004 from Atlus.
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
PS2 --- Atlus --- Fall 2004
Atlus finally brings the demon-summoning RPG series (that the PS1 Persona games sprang from) Stateside, with help from Devil May Cry's dashing hero, Dante.
And no, it's not in Quartermann's rumor column. It's in their cover feature about the 50 most anticipated games of 2004.
Also, the article mentions that Suikoden IV won't have any special features for anyone with a Suikoden 3 game save. And they mention this shortly after they explain how the third installment brought so many new fans to the series...
Yeah someone (Holiday?) brought it up when I made snide remark in Iggy's Atlus announces new games thread, but there hasn't beem a dedicated thread yet.
This is great news and it was my secret suspision that the reason they were delaying it was for the expansion, but I wasn't incredibly hopeful.
I'm not THAT dissapointed about the Suikoden thing. The 2->3 bonus wasn't that great anyway.
[this message was edited by Radish on Mon 1 Mar 15:36] |
| Ammadeau 779th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "SMT3: Maniacs" , posted Sun 7 Mar 20:45:
My copy of SMT3:M arrived this weekend and I'm already five hours in. I've also reached two conclusions:
1. This game has more style than all the Final Fantasies put together.
2. It would be hard as hell to localize and sell in the US market.
I'll explain the second one first. To start this game would have to have a mature rating. Aside from the blood and breasts, there's a mature and complex plot going on here, one that's bound to confuse teenagers, who are confused enough to start with. Religous groups are going to love the fact that the main character is a demon and essentially ends up playing god. There's also a ton of text in this game, seems to run about twice the average FF game. There's also a huge ton of mythology references that would probably need to be researched to some degree to translate properly. There's also some coding for transferring Nocturne saves that would have to be yanked from the game, which would probably have to be handled by the original devs who are already busy on their next game.
For my first point, I'll just say that screens alone do not do this game justice. There's a feeling of atmosphere that pervades this game like it seeps right into your bones and stays with you even though the more straight dungeon type areas. It helps that the character designs are just incredible. I currently have a party of a succubus, a fire sprite, and an angel in bondage gear. It's fun just to watch the various animations for their attacks. The music is also very strange but very wonderful at the same time. I love the battle theme and don't think I'll ever get tired of it, though screaming lyrics and rock music isn't probably to everyone's taste.
Final note is this game is not import friendly. Its outright import hostile and even with the great faq there was a number of moments that left me confused and scratching my head.
[this message was edited by Ammadeau on Sun 7 Mar 20:47] |
| Pollyanna
221th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(1):SMT3: Maniacs" , posted Sun 7 Mar 22:22
quote:
2. It would be hard as hell to localize and sell in the US market.
There's also a ton of text in this game, seems to run about twice the average FF game. There's also a huge ton of mythology references that would probably need to be researched to some degree to translate properly.
Yes and no. Yes, I have always said "Why would Atlus want to bring out SMT over here? It would be too hard to sell." There is a community of hardcore gamers that are the ones who post on messageboards and say "Look how many of US want it!". 20 people does not make a sale, no matter how much they complain that Atlus is wronging them. I'm glad to see that someone else realizes that, beyond the burning desire that many people (here or elsewhere on the internet) have to get the game(s) localized.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the amount of text, however. You're judging prematurely. In the beginning of the game, the amount of text may seem deceptive, but the vast majority of the game, unlike Final Fantasy games, is not plot-oriented, and while SMT3:Maniax (which I have not completed yet) has more text than SMT3 (which I HAVE completed), I don't think it's TOO much of a difference (from my experience). Sure, there is a lot of dialogue from demon negotiations, but you'll find as you progress that most of that gets repeated in the new demons. Either way, the text is certainly not as much as Persona in terms of plot AND negotiation, and Atlus of America did just fine on that. (that is to say on Persona 2, NOT the first Persona, one of the worst localizations ever).
In terms of mythological figures, there are a number of excellent resources (in Japanese) online for these things as well as countless books available. I saw no less than 8 demon data books in Japan, 3 of which were for SMT3. Also, Atlus has already done much of their work in doing the translation for Persona 2, which had descriptions of the demons/personas as well. In the worst case scenario, you'll have a strange mistranslation or a misspelled word. You have that in Japan, too however, as the Pandaemonium Kaneko Artbook/Demon dictionaries are a nightmare of misspelled names.
I'm not trying to give the impression that I don't want SMT3 localized. I do...and I'll go through it as many times as I have to (again for Maniax, again for the English one...). I just...don't know if it's a good idea for Atlus. But...I DO think they can do a good job. Eternal Punishment was one of the best localizations I've seen in its accuracy to the original (I went through EP in English -and- Japanese and the translation, although dry, was amazingly close).
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| Radish 2291th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):SMT3: Maniacs" , posted Mon 8 Mar 05:59
quote:
About the religious groups... Nobody noticed that some demons of Persona were angels and archangels? If they didn't, then it's alright I guess...
Yeah we've really reached a point where people don't care about this anymore. For ages people were telling me about how SMT was so objectionable, etc, etc but when I finally played it, it wasn't really anything worse than what we have now with Breath of Fire 2, Final Fantasy Tactics, Xenogears, Grandia 2 and so on obviously killing the Christianesque religion. Even if some religious group complains, most people are sane enough to ignore them.
I have high hopes for this game and I think if Atlus does a good job localizing and promoting (the later they didn't do with Persona 2) this can do pretty well in America, especially because we'll probably still be in this RPG drought when it comes out.
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| Pollyanna
222th Post
Frequent Customer
|  "Re(3):SMT3: Maniacs"
, posted Mon 8 Mar 13:11
quote:
wish leveling up was a little easier though. There are two fusions I want to do, but I need about four more levels to be allowed to do them and I just got my ass handed to me by some undead matador so I need all the power I can get.
Are you playing on normal or hard? (or is it just normal and easy? I forget) For someone with little Megaten experience, hard is a bit rough. Hard is a BIT rough for me, but fun, since I've gone through SMT3 already. If you're playing on hard, I imagine that you would get your ass beat a lot.
I guess normal/easy would be the better choice, though I found it a BIT too easy. Well, actually, from what I can tell, normal/easy is just a bit easier than normal SMT3, which was an adequate challenge for me. (but I'm a huge Megaten fan)But it seems like that would be about the right difficulty for someone who isn't into the series or doesn't want a huge challenge.
Of course, by the end of the game, if you manage your party well, it gets easier. The game starts out easy...gets harder...then peaks at a point. By then...you know all the tricks, and it gets a lot easier after that (despite more and more difficult mazes)
I found leveling up to be really nice, though...partially because your team is always growing and changing. Even if you have to stop for a level or two, during that time, your demons are getting new techniques and being prepared to be processed into stronger demons. It's never just simply "I need to get stronger", it's about making a new/better team. I think that's my favorite thing about Megaten/DDS games...because you don't just level up 5 times and only have stats to show for it...you have new strategies and maybe even an entirely new team.
Anyway...I think Dante is probably a deciding factor in bringing the game over, but...I really don't think he's going to improve game SATISFACTION, as I think the Megaten/DMC fan overlap isn't so great. I'm delighted to see him in the game (it's a great novelty), but I'm still confused as to who thought this was a good idea. I'd like to see Lucifer in DMC, though...hmmm...
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| DarkZero 653th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(3):SMT3: Maniacs" , posted Mon 8 Mar 13:22
quote:
About the religious groups... Nobody noticed that some demons of Persona were angels and archangels? If they didn't, then it's alright I guess...
Yeah we've really reached a point where people don't care about this anymore. For ages people were telling me about how SMT was so objectionable, etc, etc but when I finally played it, it wasn't really anything worse than what we have now with Breath of Fire 2, Final Fantasy Tactics, Xenogears, Grandia 2 and so on obviously killing the Christianesque religion. Even if some religious group complains, most people are sane enough to ignore them.
Exactly. Some people really need to get out of this 1980s mindset where anything that could be vaguely objectionable to a right-wing evangelical Christian nutjob is automatically boycotted, featured on the news as "a Satanic influence on your children", and doomed to failure. Two of the RPGs that Square still reprints -- Xenogears and Final Fantasy Tactics -- involve repeated crucifixions, a false god that you end up murdering, homocidal priests, and even the killing of a very transparent euphemism for Jesus. These games have been on the shelves for YEARS, but no one cares.
The current media scapegoat du jour is semi-realistically violent games like Grand Theft Auto and Manhunt, but even then no one really cares. Media scare tactics aren't persuading anyone to do anything any more. Even politicians no longer care about this crap.
Anyway, as for the game itself, I don't really see it as a big mistake on Atlus's part. If the game doesn't suck, then it will get good reviews, as well as good word-of-mouth, and should be almost as successful as Disgaea was for them. It won't be a blockbuster, obviously, but considering that NONE of their recent games have been blockbusters, I don't think that they're aiming for much more than a "cult hit" or "modest success". Gamers too often assume that games that don't reach the Top 10 are unmitigated disasters that will surely send their developers/publishers into ruin, but it's simply not true. Many game companies are able to survive on relatively modest successes, and after Disgaea's more-than-modest success, I think that Atlus could easily make a nice profit off of SMT3.
Going with the Dante angle is going to screw them, though. Unless they're planning on retooling the game so that you can get Dante as a playable character much earlier on, the sort of people that became excited about the game after reading the EGM blurb are going to be spewing bile about the game to anyone who will listen. SMT3 could be a success on the same level as Disgaea, but "that new Devil May Cry game with the strange name" certainly won't be.
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| Pollyanna
223th Post
Frequent Customer
|  "Re(5):SMT3: Maniacs"
, posted Mon 8 Mar 16:51
quote:
For one, if the demon summoning/persona system is in, can you browse the effects of the spells/skills that are listed for your demons/personas/whatever BEFORE you summon them?
When I play this game, am I going to be tied to a FAQ a hundred pages long until I get a feel for what's what?
SMT games are notorius as being mostly built around dungeon crawls... are the dungeons actually fun to crawl, or am I going to get ticked off with them like in the Persona games?
Well, OK...you have a list of what spells each demon will learn as soon as you're about to make them. Unlike personas, they get different spells, specifically based on who you combine them with. As a result, capturing new demons is OK for making fusions, but what you WANT to do is make a "2nd generation demon" from at least one of the demons on your team.
Anyway, demons level up just like the main character, only much slower. After they go up 8 levels, they've essentially reached their peak, because they'll have learned all of their spells. Oh, and if you didn't know, you don't "summon" them...they're just your other 3 party members.
Anyway, so in many cases, you'll be using a demon for some time, perhaps after they become a bit useless, so that you can get them to the final spell...so that your next demon will have that spell. In other cases, you may not want to get rid of a demon because it's so cool...though being able to transfer its skills makes the pain a little less. (also the demons tend to get cooler and cooler, so it's not so bad...though I did keep Son Goku around for sentimental purposes)
Really, I think this is a great system, and it never irritated me even in the least. The only irritating factor is that your spells in fusions are SOMEWHAT randomized (you don't know what spells specifically will "take"), so you may have to cancel your fusion a few times before you get the right combination of spells.
I didn't use a FAQ at all and later found that I discovered most everything interesting (excluding negotiation specifics) in the game. Weenie players may want a FAQ because "the bosses are too hard" or "the mazes suck", but they need to play a different game, not cheat their way through the one their playing. Considering how absurdly well some secrets are hidden in games these days, even though you may want demon list resources, as far as overall experience and uncovering secrets...SMT3 is VERY friendly for non-FAQ users.
I DID use a demon list, but only to test what demons evolved into other ones. As far as I'm concerned, this is the only FAQ that someone will need.
As for the dungeons being irritating...well, if you think they were in Persona, then you come from a different line of thought than I do. Well...no...I take that back...there were about 4-5 dungeons in Eternal Punishment that were a pain in the ass (or unecessary). Otherwise, I would say the mazes were incredibly well-designed and not the least bit frustrating. I don't know what you consider "fun" in a maze. If challenging mazes are not "fun", then you'll probably hate SMT3. It has...difficult, tricky, sometimes grueling mazes. They all have a lot of variety and brilliant tricks to them, but they're sometimes horrifically difficult to those who aren't into that sort of thing. I can't think of a game with better maze design than SMT3, though...so if you don't like them, I feel that it's a matter of personal taste, rather than a shortcoming on the developer's part.
Oh, and Iggy...I don't think you're mistaken. Dante seems to be sort of a pain all around. (unless you're a big DMC fan) Didn't bother me much, though.
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| Spoon
173th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(6):SMT3: Maniacs" , posted Mon 8 Mar 17:16
quote:
Well, OK...you have a list of what spells each demon will learn as soon as you're about to make them. Unlike personas, they get different spells, specifically based on who you combine them with. As a result, capturing new demons is OK for making fusions, but what you WANT to do is make a "2nd generation demon" from at least one of the demons on your team.
So it's the usual SMT system of fusing demons together and stuff? Alright.
But you can get descriptions of what the new abilities are, not just the names of them,right?
quote:
SMT3 is VERY friendly for non-FAQ users.
I like the sound of that.
quote:
As for the dungeons being irritating...well, if you think they were in Persona, then you come from a different line of thought than I do. Well...no...I take that back...there were about 4-5 dungeons in Eternal Punishment that were a pain in the ass (or unecessary). Otherwise, I would say the mazes were incredibly well-designed and not the least bit frustrating. I don't know what you consider "fun" in a maze. If challenging mazes are not "fun", then you'll probably hate SMT3. It has...difficult, tricky, sometimes grueling mazes. They all have a lot of variety and brilliant tricks to them, but they're sometimes horrifically difficult to those who aren't into that sort of thing. I can't think of a game with better maze design than SMT3, though...so if you don't like them, I feel that it's a matter of personal taste, rather than a shortcoming on the developer's part.
Well, there are such things as "bad mazes", even for maze lovers. Actually, here's a question: where is the difficulty in the mazes, in the maze design itself (i.e. gotta get the ball of string to find the Minotaur...), or simply because the maze is very long and the encounter rate is high? I know a few places in SMT and Persona that annoyed me because of the latter... Here's one thing that I suppose that a lot of people had issue with in the Persona/SMT games: many of the dungeons don't have you do much except find your way to the "finish line" (which is usually a good many steps) and deal with all the baddies along the way. Because of that, every dead end that you hit feels just that much more frustrating since there are no additional goals or fun things to do. Good lord, I just had a bad memory of some old Ultima game shoot into my head.
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| Pollyanna
224th Post
Frequent Customer
|  "Re(7):SMT3: Maniacs"
, posted Mon 8 Mar 19:56
Oh jeez...I realize that I'm sorta being egocentristic, or however you want to say it. I don't remember if they give spell descriptions, because I know all of the megaten spells by heart. Well, maybe not ALL of them. Augh...I really don't remember bcause it wasn't an issue for me. That's sad. I'm not trying to brag, as I'm sure just about everyone here knows that in terms of FinalFantasy, cure heals, heal cures and ultima is usually a good thing.
Hmmm...maybe you WILL need a FAQ for that.
I guess another thing you -might- need a FAQ for is getting a certain ending...but if you want to pick sides with a given character, it's pretty obvious without looking at anything. You just run a risk of getting the "no choice" ending if you try to get Yuuko's.
Hmmm...well, I agree that a lengthy maze with a goal and nothing in between does not make for a good maze. Well, not usually at least. SMT3 uses a lot more originality than Persona, I suppose...in most of its mazes. You have things like turning the maze upside down, dropping through the floor (or ceiling), mud slides, teleporting platforms, moving platforms, optical illusions, fairies that teleport you where you probably don't want to go, dark areas, floor traps, etc etc. That isn't to say that the mazes aren't long and grueling, sometimes without innovation. It's just that I, personally enjoyed the mazes in SMT3 more than those in any other game I can think of.
I guess I have a bit of an Megaten bias, though. Something about the games...or rather, everything about the games appeals to me (especially Persona, which doesn't fall short in character development like SMT does). When Eternal Punishment came out in America, it met with decent, if slightly mediocre scores...but in every case where a reviewer would point out the "flaws" in the game, I would think "But that's exactly why I like the game". So, while I would tear my hair out when people would rate the game as low (or high?) as Legend of Legaia, I would have to agree nonetheless, because the game's "flaws" were all strengths to me.
Regardless, I haven't played the perfect Megaten game yet...and SMT3 is far from perfect...it's just when I play it, I don't feel like anything is lacking or wrong. (except the occassional unavoidable unfortunate random death)
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