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| ShadowSonic
58th Post
 
Occasional Customer
  
|  "KOF Neo Wave screenshots."
, posted Fri 27 Feb 11:15
http://kof.gamebbs.cn/dispbbs.asp?boardID=29&ID=25440
HERE COME THE PICCIES!
Notable things:
- Same old MVS sprites (WTFBBQ?!?!)
- Just Defense is in the game
- Confirmed characters: Yashiro, Chris, Shermie, Mai, King, Yuri, Kyo, Iori, Shingo, Saisyu, Ralf, Clark (looks like oldschool 94-98 Ralf/Clark)
- Looks like 3D backgrounds.
Let the discussion commence!
Where darkness turns to light and order turns to chaos. 2003.
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Replies:
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| Burning Kyo 2036th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
 
|  "Re(1):KOF Neo Wave screenshots."
, posted Fri 27 Feb 12:11
quote:
- Confirmed characters: Yashiro, Chris, Shermie, Mai, King, Yuri, Kyo, Iori, Shingo, Saisyu, Ralf, Clark (looks like oldschool 94-98 Ralf/Clark)
No, Clark & Ralf have their 99-03 sprites.
Please, change Iori's outfit ! (T__T)
Can you feel the HEAT ?!
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| Gen 2526th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):KOF Neo Wave screenshots." , posted Fri 27 Feb 15:27:
quote:
http://kof.gamebbs.cn/dispbbs.asp?boardID=29&ID=25440
HERE COME THE PICCIES!
Notable things:
- Same old MVS sprites (WTFBBQ?!?!)
- Just Defense is in the game
- Confirmed characters: Yashiro, Chris, Shermie, Mai, King, Yuri, Kyo, Iori, Shingo, Saisyu, Ralf, Clark (looks like oldschool 94-98 Ralf/Clark)
- Looks like 3D backgrounds.
Let the discussion commence!
Thanks.
Hmm.. What magazine is this from?
quote:
Ancient Crap
Something From This Century(realtime engine shot) /quote]
On my chonometer Guilty Gear is still kind of new.
That screen reminds me..I wonder how the public will respond to various aspects of Doom3...Then I also wonder if they leaked that little pre release on purpose.
[this message was edited by Gen on Fri 27 Feb 15:31] |
| beto
211th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(3):Re(10):KOF Neo Wave screenshots." , posted Fri 27 Feb 18:59:
quote:
Ok then, well just answer the question... why is thisbetter than This? all you've said is "crappy GG stuff" but with no valid reason to back it up. Have you even really played the Guilty Gear X games?
I´ve already replied to this qustion in s-c.com. And i already posted a lengthy (sp?) "why i don´t like GGXX´ gameplay" to the annoying Mummy-B before (which i don´t know which forum was, so i can´t cut and paste), so let me give you the reader´s digest version:
GGXX has lots of features and special blocks and cancels that make gameplay silly and gimmicky instead of just plain fun. It´s like SS4 against SS2. Or MK3 against MK2. Or to a lesser degree, the striker KOFs against 98.
quote:
Not liking a game is a very valid reason... no game can appeal to everyone. Personally I couldn't stand Final Fantasy 8 but some people regard it as one of the best. Anyway I'm mostly just flustered over Crimson Love bashing GGX sprites with no reason to back it up. 
Because they have like, two colors and no shading? Because they lack detail and linework? Because they look rushed? Because people talk about how awesome the animation is, when they are actually choppier than any KOF, SVC, MOTW or LB (thanks for posting the Ky sprite, by the way)?
To me, the difference is like when we get something really stupid to animate. We do it, but we make few frames and don´t use any shading. It ends up something generic and cheap. We end up using some stock 3D and light effects to help out. That´s GG. Wanna a comic analogy? It´s an old issue of Wildcats done by Jim Lee or Cyberforce by Silvestri. Bland, generic stuff.
When we do something of our own, we add detail, folding in the outfits, we shade the whole thing nicely, we add in-jokes, we animate little things like hands and eye-brows and even more: we put personal touches. It looks unique and interesting. That´s KOF. Wanna a comics analogy? It´s an issue of Savage Dragon... or even Jojo. Personal, creative stuff.
And: I´ve played both GG1 and GGXX. GG1 is bland. GGXX is gimmicky. They don´t interest me in the least, just like MVC and XvSF. Give me SF3 any day. Hell, i´m more interested in RumbleFish than any GG.
P.S: When i say "we", i mean the people i work with in the animation studio. I´m not an in-betweener or key-framer myself.
[this message was edited by beto on Fri 27 Feb 19:07] |
| VManOfMana 343th Post
Bronze Customer
| "Re(4):Re(10):KOF Neo Wave screenshots." , posted Sat 28 Feb 09:53
quote:
I´ve already replied to this qustion in s-c.com. And i already posted a lengthy (sp?) "why i don´t like GGXX´ gameplay" to the annoying Mummy-B before (which i don´t know which forum was, so i can´t cut and paste), so let me give you the reader´s digest version:
GGXX has lots of features and special blocks and cancels that make gameplay silly and gimmicky instead of just plain fun. It´s like SS4 against SS2. Or MK3 against MK2. Or to a lesser degree, the striker KOFs against 98.
I do not agree in this statement. GGXX has many things, but those things is what GGXX the deepest 2D fighting game. They are not just a gimmick, but they do have a purpose. These elements are an important factor of why GGXX came to be one of the most balanced 2D fighting games available, which if you consider also the fact that it was done at the second try, it is quite impressive.
This article could enlighten you up a little bit:
http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_GameBalancePart2.htm
quote:
Because they have like, two colors and no shading? Because they lack detail and linework? Because they look rushed? Because people talk about how awesome the animation is, when they are actually choppier than any KOF, SVC, MOTW or LB (thanks for posting the Ky sprite, by the way)?
That's a matter of opinion. The sprites of GGXX look like that because GGXX is intended to look like an anime. And if you ask me, I do like the anime look. If they were to add more shading to make the sprites look more "real", characters like Dizzy would simply look out of place.
quote:
To me, the difference is like when we get something really stupid to animate. We do it, but we make few frames and don´t use any shading. It ends up something generic and cheap. We end up using some stock 3D and light effects to help out. That´s GG. Wanna a comic analogy? It´s an old issue of Wildcats done by Jim Lee or Cyberforce by Silvestri. Bland, generic stuff.
When we do something of our own, we add detail, folding in the outfits, we shade the whole thing nicely, we add in-jokes, we animate little things like hands and eye-brows and even more: we put personal touches. It looks unique and interesting. That´s KOF. Wanna a comics analogy? It´s an issue of Savage Dragon... or even Jojo. Personal, creative stuff.
These paragraphs sound pretty fanboyish to me. I don't think you are thinking objectively when making these statements. They are just an expression of preference.
quote:
And: I´ve played both GG1 and GGXX. GG1 is bland. GGXX is gimmicky. They don´t interest me in the least, just like MVC and XvSF. Give me SF3 any day. Hell, i´m more interested in RumbleFish than any GG.
P.S: When i say "we", i mean the people i work with in the animation studio. I´m not an in-betweener or key-framer myself.
Well, for someone who works at an animation studio, you sound like you forget that if you have a sprite that is twice as big, you need twice as many animation sprites to get the same fluidity. Since a GGXX sprite can be three or four times as big (or more), you are asking for a unreasonably high amount of frames of animation.
Look at Melty Blood. Its animation puts KoF, LB, Samsho, and other SNK games to shame. Its animation beats MOTW, and is as good (if not better) than Third Strike's. So how come, even though it has no rehashes sprites, the sprites are at a lower resoltion at the background? They sacrificed resolution for fluidity.
Jabel D. Morales - VMan of Mana.
http://vman.animecafe.net/
"Tameraeba makeyo!"
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| NARUTO 2204th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Why such a game? maybe Because....." , posted Sat 28 Feb 10:20:
Well so far the only reason I see in such KOF, is that SNKP wish to get rid of those Dream match. KOF have always worked this way, Dream match->3 title->dream match->3 title... and so on, but now if they use sammy like they did with noise factory, SNKP can concentrate on their saga, without losing 1 year every 4 games, that may let them make deeper or longer story, and when they need to, they have a little dream match to comes out of nowhere.
And just as spoon says, if they can at last add ALL the characters, it can still be fun to play.
Mr Sammy, just work you Background and Life/power bar Layout and your job will be done.
[this message was edited by NARUTO on Sun 29 Feb 02:02] |
| beto
213th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(5):Re(10):KOF Neo Wave screenshots." , posted Sat 28 Feb 11:31:
quote:
I do not agree in this statement. GGXX has many things, but those things is what GGXX the deepest 2D fighting game. They are not just a gimmick, but they do have a purpose. These elements are an important factor of why GGXX came to be one of the most balanced 2D fighting games available, which if you consider also the fact that it was done at the second try, it is quite impressive.
This article could enlighten you up a little bit:
http://www.sirlin.net/Features/feature_GameBalancePart2.htm
A gimmick is a gimmick. I could make a game where you use diagonal air dashes with guard cancel properties that make the screen flash five colors. It would still be a gimmick.
A broken KOF 97 or SF2WW is still more fun than GGXX.
quote:
That's a matter of opinion. The sprites of GGXX look like that because GGXX is intended to look like an anime. And if you ask me, I do like the anime look. If they were to add more shading to make the sprites look more "real", characters like Dizzy would simply look out of place.
Opinion, yep. And why did he jump at my opinion with the "this century" reply.
I´m waiting for him to come and point at my avatar and start talking about "child porn" (WTF?!?) any minute now, like he did at s-c.com (why, i´ll never know).
quote:
These paragraphs sound pretty fanboyish to me. I don't think you are thinking objectively when making these statements. They are just an expression of preference.
As fanboy-ish as calling something "ancient crap" and "something of this century"?
The examples i´ve used are:
Generic comics with generic art styles against more unique comics with unique art styles.
Back then, Cyberforce and Wildcats were exactly like other popular comics. Their art styles were exactly like other popular comics.
The same can´t be said about TSD or Jojo. So, "unique". I didn´t say "good" or "bad". I said "unique".
There´s nothing fanboyish about this. Even if you hate Dragon and Jojo, you can still see how they are not copying any popular titles, be it in art style, characters or storylines (Dragon does make fun of comic clichés, though).
quote:
Well, for someone who works at an animation studio, you sound like you forget that if you have a sprite that is twice as big, you need twice as many animation sprites to get the same fluidity. Since a GGXX sprite can be three or four times as big (or more), you are asking for a unreasonably high amount of frames of animation.
Look at Melty Blood. Its animation puts KoF, LB, Samsho, and other SNK games to shame. Its animation beats MOTW, and is as good (if not better) than Third Strike's. So how come, even though it has no rehashes sprites, the sprites are at a lower resoltion at the background? They sacrificed resolution for fluidity.
GG sprites are bigger, but they are not displayed on-screen bigger than the average fighting game sprite. Sammy chose to make then high-res and didn´t make th animation to match.
And by the way: i didn´t bring up the animation studio to say i know more about animation. I don´t even work as an animator there. I brought it up to complement the "comics" analogy.
[this message was edited by beto on Sat 28 Feb 12:25] |
| NARUTO 2204th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):Re(10):KOF Neo Wave screenshots." , posted Sun 29 Feb 02:16
quote:
If you just want to reduce such things into a gimmick, we can just reduce everything into a gimmick, like the team based gameplays, or the guard cancels, or parry and just defense, etc.
IMO I think there is no gimmick anywere, all those games have their own "soul". Calling GGXX a gimmick who be in some way as stupid as calling KOf or anyother VS game a gimmick.
All of those Games, SF, KOF, GGXX, MvC, have all their own gamplay, system, and graphic style, should we call a game a gimmick when is try to use an idea that was al ready used?? If yes , fatal fury is a gimmick for using SF vs idea, and SSF2 a gimmick of FFs for using the super move idea, thenLast baled is a gimmick of Samurai shodow....and so on...
All games have their own quality, eftre it's just a question od taste, IMO I a KOF fan and I still Like the GG serie since she's truely difefent in his gameplay, and style.
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| DarkZero 643th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(5):KOF Neo Wave screenshots." , posted Sun 29 Feb 12:05
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The new board doesn't seem to have changed something, characters look the same, Life/power bar layout are ugly, and the new background even if they aren't ugly feels really to much empty
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If Sammy is recycling SNKP's old KOF sprites.... then I don't expect much from Sammy vs Capcom. What a letdown, high res sprites are the one thing Sammy is known for.... so what the hell is going to make Neo Wave different from 04? Ooooo they added Just Defend... that's not going to cut it.
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I agree with you, NARUTO. This looks like a joke, with no new sprites. Maybe I'm asking too much? I wanted new sprites, hi-res or not, and I didn't mind waiting a year or two.
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Nope, you had the same expectations that I and everyone else had.
Why are they wasting time with this when they could be totally revamping 2K4?
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Utter and complete bullshit.
Sprites are 100% rehashed. They even used Ralf's old sprite from '98, what the hell?!
No post '98 characters so far. Where the fuck is K'?
Backgrounds look boring, bland, and totally out of place. The perspectives on them look totally out of whack as well.
The HUD looks like it was done by a three year old in MUGEN.
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Yeah,the BG's are boring and lifeless. And those sprites look so ugly compared to the BG's. What's up with that anyway? Blah!
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Exactly... it's just Mugen with 3D backgrounds.
Aren't these the same people that will be telling me, just a week from now, that A) game developers put too much time and money into shiny graphics, B) pretty images are worthless compared to good gameplay, and C) FFVII sucks, because it's for stupid kids that only care about pretty pictures?
Whenever there's a new KOF, you guys suddenly become a bunch of GameFAQs kiddies that think that KOF SPR1TES R TEH SUK D00D. It's like the video game board equivalent of lycanthropy. Whenever there's a new KOF game, it's like the clouds part, the full moon rises, and you all become werenerds. I just don't understand it.
As an aside, though...
quote:
That's all pure speculation though. The only thing we know for sure is so far the cast is all pre-98 and they added just defend. Ralph does have a different meter in that picture, but that doesn't mean grooves... he could just be in max mode.
Where did the "the cast is all pre-98" part come from? Just because we haven't seen a post-98 character yet doesn't mean that they're not in the game, especially when only three of the characters that have been revealed are not the same KOF regulars that we've seen every year since the series started.
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| Hungrywolf 2708th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):KOF Neo Wave screenshots." , posted Sun 29 Feb 13:59
quote:
Aren't these the same people that will be telling me, just a week from now, that A) game developers put too much time and money into shiny graphics, B) pretty images are worthless compared to good gameplay, and C) FFVII sucks, because it's for stupid kids that only care about pretty pictures?
Actually, I love pretty graphics. But without good gameplay they are worthless. And I never say FFVII sucks, I just say that I don't like it, but that's because I don't like the story. I like the gameplay and graphics of it. I see more people here praise FFVII than say that it sucks. In either case, I do understand your point. I just wanted to post somewhere in this thread.
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
FFVII sucks, because it's for stupid kids that only care about pretty pictures.
End of Spoiler
"no again my apoligizes for anyone i offend!!!!!"
Hungry Like the Wolf
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| Cain Highwind 326th Post
Bronze Customer
| "Re(9):KOF Neo Wave screenshots." , posted Sun 29 Feb 16:12
quote:
Two little words.... SO FAR First impressions are important, game makers know that. These first shots are chosen for a reason... it's their representation of the game. Ralph, Clark, and Kyo all back in old costumes, no post 98 characters, recycled sprites... it's right there in the pictures and there's no denying it.
What I had hoped for was a little variety... I think KOF 2k3 was a terrific change of pace and I really thought that KOF would be heading in a new direction. So far Neowave is nothing different from the DC ports of KOF with 3d backgrounds... that could change, but I highly doubt it.
I was hoping for a huge dramatic changeas well. The screens make me think "PS2 port" whether then Hi-res Atomiswave.
One thing I think you guys are forgetting. While I'm not accusing you of assuming there'll be no post 98 characters. We kinda have evidence that there will be.
99-2k2 Kyo, remember? He would technically qualify as a post 98 character. I mean why would they focus strictly on 98 and before and then stick Nests Kyo for kicks?
Unless, like someone stated, they'll put ALL costumes for characters since the Atomiswave would make it possible, and would Rock!)
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| Toxico 3471th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(10):KOF Neo Wave screenshots."
, posted Sun 29 Feb 22:12
quote:
Hating FFVII because it's popular is yesterday's news at this point; the hip, new trend is to bag on FFVI. General Leo is dead people, get over it. ;)
Well, in my personal case I played the games in order (yes I even got some ilegal japanese 'bootlegs' for NES), and I had my full in FFVI mainly because the storyline was not as childlist as the previous ones (Damn, it took me long enough knowing what went on on the first games, dunno about engrish or japanese at the time; it also helped that I took forever to get the PS ports of the games).... FFVII for me was just a little strayberry on a huge icecream, it didn't really make such big of an add to my world; I wonder if this statement actually makes any sense.
About the actual coment on the game some part of me is relieved to think "same old same old", now I can run to my friends and scream furiously 'I told you so'; for the other part I must say the shameless rearsh didn't affect me at all. The one thing I wonder is if that sammy actually got a grip of SNK source code to make the rearsh. If the just got the 'visual' part of the code we might have a game with different speeds, highs & priorities and THAT might be worth it, if not then we can only hope for a huge cast.... Second thought -> either way a huge cast could save this 'sinking ship'.
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| Sensenic 1154th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):KOF Neo Wave screenshots." , posted Mon 1 Mar 02:22
quote:
Have to see the gameplay though, but i doubt that will change anything.
For what I've heard you'll be able to choose your "groove" in all who have appear in KOF, like Extra, advanced...and even the MOTW one.
That's all pure speculation though. (...) Ralph does have a different meter in that picture, but that doesn't mean grooves... he could just be in max mode.
Nope, there are different grooves. Ralf's gauge is in one max mode, but there's another, different, Max mode gauge in Kyo and Iori's pic. Plus, Clark's gauge is your good ol' 97,98 Advanced mode one, while Kyo and Iori's is more similar to the gauge in 2k2, 2k3, with numbers.
Of course, it's also possible that they're 2 different layouts for the same system they'd of given it during the game's development. This happens sometimes, showing at the same time two layouts for the same game interface, and they create unnecessary hype: "Look! Look! 2 different modes!"
Oboromaru. Yup seems they're all "one-eyed" masked guys now. Just coincidence.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
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| IkariDC
118th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(10):Re(10):Re(10):KOF Neo Wave screenshots" , posted Tue 2 Mar 11:08
quote:
Murata wasn't involved in ROTD... that was some well known doujinshi artist, but I forgot his name. Anyway it's not the first time I've heard Murata as the artist for this... and it makes sense since he just recently did work for Sammy... but for some reason I keep on thinking it's the in game artist from KOF 99.
Yes, I see what you say, but Yashiro, Crish, Mary, Ralf and Clark at least,look like the Matrimelee art to me. Look at the skin color, it's the same as in Matrimelee!
It seems that not many people liked the art from '99. I liked the drawings, but the colors were quite simple. Overall, I liked the art.
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