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| Sensenic 1146th Post
 
Red Carpet Premium Member+
 
    
    
    
|  "Discussing Metroid ZM"
, posted Tue 24 Feb 14:55
Well, I'm playing and LOVING it (the ROM, I admit, impacient I am... u_u') right now, and wanted to comment a couple of things. Didn't want to use the old thread because, well, it got too old, and to avoid spoilers (in Norfair I am, right after uncovering its map).
And what I wanted to comment is just 2 little flaws I've found IMO so far, because the rest is just great:
- All that Chozo misticism, no... prefered the simpler sci-fi story of Super or Fusion. Am I wrong or did all this Chozo stuff (Samus being some kind of "The One" or sumthin'...) start in Prime?
- The other one is that it feels too easy, even for a scrub like me. For example, why is Wall Jump so abusable? You can press again the direction you were jumping to right after bouncing, so, as long as you have only one "wall-jumping-climbable" wall, you can do big jumps very soon. Same goes for Bomb Jumping, I've been able to climb up long vertical walls searching for secrets without much trouble, just keeping pressing B. In Super Metroid using Wall Jumping to climb a single wall was hell to clumsy me, same as Bomb Jumping, in both cases I barely could manage to bounce one or two times... Strange. And why do they give you the allmighty Screw Attack so early, even before Space Jump?? Did you get it so soon in the original Metroid? Because I'm starting to fear that either the game is way shorter than I expected or the allmighty SA has been really toned down. Else, there're no more normal ennemies to fear in game to come...
Oboromaru. Yup seems they're all "one-eyed" masked guys now. Just coincidence.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
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| DarkZero 638th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(1):Discussing Metroid ZM" , posted Tue 24 Feb 15:33
I got the feeling that with this game, they wanted to empower the more experienced players to be able to do a little more on their own and explore randomly like they could in the original Metroid, as opposed to the Super Metroid style of putting a brick wall in front of the player every few minutes and forcing the player to play it the way the developer intended. If you're not a very good player, you can follow the established path and go from item to item. If, however, you've been doing the Bomb Jump for over a decade, the game takes the training wheels off and lets you do as you please.
I liked this approach, but I could've done with just a little more instruction on the game's part. Because I never played Fusion, I was left completely unaware of some of the newer techniques until after I'd finished the game, and something nice and intuitive like the friendly alien animals in Super Metroid would've been welcome. A lot of game reviews have been pitching this game as "Even if you've never played the original Metroid, you'll love this" or "Everyone should play this, not just Metroid fans", but they're skipping over the fact that the game assumes that you've played Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion.
And while I really, really enjoyed the game, even enough to do my first Metroid speed run right after I finished it, it was way too easy. Why they allow you to choose between Easy and Normal modes, but (like almost all Japanese console games) refuse to give you a Hard Mode option right from the start, is beyond me. I didn't really start feeling any nostalgia until I loaded up the NES version of Metroid and started having fond memories of hearing the "YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE" beeps ringing in my ear non-stop. Even during my speed run, which left me with a handful of missiles and only five energy tanks for the entire game, I only hit a real challenge a couple of times.
And yeah, the Metroid Prime storyline is annoying, but at least they kept it to a respectable minimum. Zero Mission provides us with a well-characterized version of Samus, whereas Prime just tosses heavy-handed cliches at you every couple of minutes for hours on end.
All in all, it was a great game, and the problems with it were really small. I'm hoping to see another one soon, or at least find time to fit Metroid Fusion in at some point between school and my backlog of games.
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| VariantX
223th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(1):Discussing Metroid ZM" , posted Tue 24 Feb 22:20
quote:
Well, I'm playing and LOVING it (the ROM, I admit, impacient I am... u_u') right now, and wanted to comment a couple of things. Didn't want to use the old thread because, well, it got too old, and to avoid spoilers (in Norfair I am, right after uncovering its map).
And what I wanted to comment is just 2 little flaws I've found IMO so far, because the rest is just great:
- All that Chozo misticism, no... prefered the simpler sci-fi story of Super or Fusion. Am I wrong or did all this Chozo stuff (Samus being some kind of "The One" or sumthin'...) start in Prime?
- The other one is that it feels too easy, even for a scrub like me. For example, why is Wall Jump so abusable? You can press again the direction you were jumping to right after bouncing, so, as long as you have only one "wall-jumping-climbable" wall, you can do big jumps very soon. Same goes for Bomb Jumping, I've been able to climb up long vertical walls searching for secrets without much trouble, just keeping pressing B. In Super Metroid using Wall Jumping to climb a single wall was hell to clumsy me, same as Bomb Jumping, in both cases I barely could manage to bounce one or two times... Strange. And why do they give you the allmighty Screw Attack so early, even before Space Jump?? Did you get it so soon in the original Metroid? Because I'm starting to fear that either the game is way shorter than I expected or the allmighty SA has been really toned down. Else, there're no more normal ennemies to fear in game to come...
I didnt have much trouble wall jumping in sm. Bomb jumping on the other hand is super easy now. As for getting the screw attack early...... eh.... I wouldnt call it that since youre about 5-10 mins away from fighting MB after you beat ridley. And you really need it when you fight MB other wise the fight against MB gets about 100x more annoying than ever.
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| Sensenic 1148th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(2):Discussing Metroid ZM" , posted Wed 25 Feb 05:23:
quote:
either we obtained some mad skills over the years (it could happen)
Uh... I don't think so, at least in my case 
quote:
I didnt have much trouble wall jumping in sm. Bomb jumping on the other hand is super easy now. As for getting the screw attack early...... eh.... I wouldnt call it that since youre about 5-10 mins away from fighting MB after you beat ridley. And you really need it when you fight MB other wise the fight against MB gets about 100x more annoying than ever.
Only 5-10 min? >_<{D'oh!
Well, I guess it'll take a little longer to me because since I couldn't do the speed run even if I tried to, I go after the "100% in the first game" as a personal challenge (heavy bombing and exploring all the time ^_^).
I did 96% in SM, with some external help at the end though (never knew what the hell did I miss and didn't bother to check ^_^), and 97% in Fusion, 100% with the map help, continuing the game where I left it after a "non-counting" first beat ^_^'. Suit-less Samus pic rocks much muchness.
As for the Screw, I can't help having the sensation you get it too early, getting it even before Wave Beam (and of course Plasma Beam), Power Bombs, Gravity Suit and Space Jump (not mentioned in order, I don't know it, avoid me spoilers ^_^). Or maybe I missed something? o_O. Even if there isn't much game ahead (D'oh! again) it still feels too early. But, hey, I'm glad with it, since now I can do the exploring without worrying about those bugs around.
EDIT:
quote:
I liked this approach, but I could've done with just a little more instruction on the game's part. Because I never played Fusion, I was left completely unaware of some of the newer techniques until after I'd finished the game, and something nice and intuitive like the friendly alien animals in Super Metroid would've been welcome.
New techniques, new techniques.... not that there are many. Apart from ledge-grabbing, and you've got to get that one to get through the game, there's only... euh... "Shinesparking (love that word) into a slope", so Samus keeps running (if there are more of them, don't tell me, thanks ^_^). And no one in Fusion tells you that one either. You have to learn it by chance (as was my case) or by the way it's done since Super Metroid (except for Shinesparking and wall jumping): not pressing start, watching Samus do them in the demo movies so you know they can be done, and try to guess how to in the game. That, or check a FAQ , as I did with Power Bomb Healing, since I couldn't guess how the hell was that done and I've already beaten the game anyway.
Oboromaru. Yup seems they're all "one-eyed" masked guys now. Just coincidence.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
[this message was edited by Sensenic on Wed 25 Feb 05:37] |
| Sensenic 1149th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(6):Discussing Metroid ZM" , posted Thu 26 Feb 03:16
quote:
I'd strongly recommend beating the game BEFORE you get 100%. I think some other people would recommend that, too. Such as, for instance, everyone.
Yeah, yeah, I know. And that's what I'll probably end up doing anyway, as I did in Fusion, but it's kind of a personal challenge, something to be proud of, since I'm such a scrub I haven't many "records" (if any), videogame-wise. You know, to think: "I was able to find everything in the game with no external help" or so.
Oboromaru. Yup seems they're all "one-eyed" masked guys now. Just coincidence.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
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| DarkZero 641th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(7):Discussing Metroid ZM" , posted Thu 26 Feb 08:27
quote:
Yeah, yeah, I know. And that's what I'll probably end up doing anyway, as I did in Fusion, but it's kind of a personal challenge, something to be proud of, since I'm such a scrub I haven't many "records" (if any), videogame-wise. You know, to think: "I was able to find everything in the game with no external help" or so.
I am trying to drop a hint here, dammit. Here, try this:
You cannot reach 100% before you defeat Mother Brain.
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| Sensenic 1151th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(8):Discussing Metroid ZM" , posted Fri 27 Feb 03:07
quote:
I am trying to drop a hint here, dammit. Here, try this:
You cannot reach 100% before you defeat Mother Brain.
 Oh! Silly me. Avoid me spoilers, boy ^_^. Thanks for the hint anyway, but it doesn't matter, if 100% can't be reached, then my target is to get everything you can before fighting MB.
I hope I can do as in Fusion, where they let you continue any saved game from where you were, but with the extended map information, very useful it was to reach 100%. Else, well, guess I'll have to play through it again, nothing wrong with that :)
Oboromaru. Yup seems they're all "one-eyed" masked guys now. Just coincidence.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
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| TiamatRoar 647th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(9):Discussing Metroid ZM" , posted Fri 27 Feb 23:14
quote:
I am trying to drop a hint here, dammit. Here, try this:
You cannot reach 100% before you defeat Mother Brain.
Oh! Silly me. Avoid me spoilers, boy ^_^. Thanks for the hint anyway, but it doesn't matter, if 100% can't be reached, then my target is to get everything you can before fighting MB.
I hope I can do as in Fusion, where they let you continue any saved game from where you were, but with the extended map information, very useful it was to reach 100%. Else, well, guess I'll have to play through it again, nothing wrong with that :)
If you really want to get 100%, you won't have to play through it again, heresay... but I can't say what's exactly meant when this stuff is all being said due to the spoiler stuff and all.
http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/street_fighter_plot.txt
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| Sensenic 1159th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Metroid ZM, long, spoiler-full post" , posted Tue 2 Mar 05:20
All that text in spoiler format would've been annoying to read, so you're warned if you haven't played through the game
quote:
[OYashiroForever's spoiler] [DrBaghead's spoiler]
I rather agree with you Dr., not only it's fun, but it's also coherent, even if they continue with this more mystic version of the story, which I don't like as much as the original "sci-fier", simpler one in SM and Fusion, for example.
I mean, it feels tacked on indeed, but they said at the beginning that this was the "real story" of the first one, so you can just assume that all the Chozo stuff (this last part of ZM and all Prime) would've been kept officially hidden, don't know, let's say, for example, to avoid corrupt governments, criminals and whatnot to get to know about the Chozo technology and stuff. So the official version would've been M, M2, SM and Fusion and the real one ZM, P, M2, SM and Fusion. No? Of course, there's still Prime 2 and some others to come, but, for now, I think it works.
Not also that, you get to see what's that wrecked ship in SM, that's why the walking garbage bin-like robots and those bolt-throwing balls.
I think this is more or less what I expected from this game, uglier but well worked story. And, gameplay-wise a revisitation to SM with a more Fusion-alike system. And that's what I got.
BTW, one thing I didn't like at all was suit-less Samus being able to resist so many enemy shots and to make those big jumps and wall bouncings by herself, without her Power Suit. I think all that part should've been shorter and more about infiltration, with one shot getting you killed.
I don't know, guess it disappointed me because I always assumed she was a normal woman (very well trained of course, but normal) who was able to do all that jumping and "energy recovering" thanks to her suit, but...
Oh! And a last detail: did you notice they didn't use symmetric sprites even for suit-less Samus, who always keeps the gun in her right hand? Yey!
Oboromaru. Yup seems they're all "one-eyed" masked guys now. Just coincidence.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
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| JJWE 350th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(1):Metroid ZM, long, spoiler-full post" , posted Tue 2 Mar 06:09:
quote:
Not also that, you get to see what's that wrecked ship in SM, that's why the walking garbage bin-like robots and those bolt-throwing balls.
This has been discussed to death elsewhere, but I might as well mention it since you brought it up. In the Super Metroid manual, it states that the wrecked ship is that of an ancient alien species (or something along those lines) that crashed there centuries ago. Now the space pirates are alien, granted, but we know the whole ordeal in Metroid 1/MZM didn't occur centuries ago, which rules out the two being the same ship. Now if this is just some oversight on Nintendo's part, or if they simply chose to ignore it, who knows? But looking at information alone, someone made a boo-boo.
edit: Dug up the manual on the net, and this is the exact wording:
WRECKED SHIP
Long ago astronauts from an ancient
civilization crash landed on Zebes.
This is what remains of their ship.
--- http://ngmc.retrogames.com
[this message was edited by JJWE on Tue 2 Mar 06:16] |
| Sensenic 1160th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(2):Metroid ZM, long, spoiler-full post" , posted Tue 2 Mar 06:26
quote:
Not also that, you get to see what's that wrecked ship in SM, that's why the walking garbage bin-like robots and those bolt-throwing balls.
This has been discussed to death elsewhere, but I might as well mention it since you brought it up. In the Super Metroid manual, it states that the wrecked ship is that of an ancient alien species (or something along those lines) that crashed there centuries ago. Now the space pirates are alien, granted, but we know the whole ordeal in Metroid 1/MZM didn't occur centuries ago, which rules out the two being the same ship. Now if this is just some oversight on Nintendo's part, or if they simply chose to ignore it, who knows? But looking at information alone, someone made a boo-boo.
edit: Dug up the manual on the net, and this is the exact wording:
WRECKED SHIP
Long ago astronauts from an ancient
civilization crash landed on Zebes.
This is what remains of their ship.
Uh.... o_O
Didn't remember about that at all. I guess they ignored it, wether actively or passively.
Just another retcon -sigh- {Nchts.
Oboromaru. Yup seems they're all "one-eyed" masked guys now. Just coincidence.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
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| DarkZero 647th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(2):Metroid ZM, long, spoiler-full post" , posted Tue 2 Mar 21:15
quote:
This has been discussed to death elsewhere, but I might as well mention it since you brought it up. In the Super Metroid manual, it states that the wrecked ship is that of an ancient alien species (or something along those lines) that crashed there centuries ago. Now the space pirates are alien, granted, but we know the whole ordeal in Metroid 1/MZM didn't occur centuries ago, which rules out the two being the same ship. Now if this is just some oversight on Nintendo's part, or if they simply chose to ignore it, who knows? But looking at information alone, someone made a boo-boo.
Another retcon in Zero Mission is that, according to the manual's story, Mother Brain is now just the controller of Zebes' defense system. In the original game, Mother Brain was the leader of the space pirates, not just some organic supercomputer controlling some automated weapons.
And I can't remember if they actually refer to Ridley as "the leader of the Space Pirates" in the game, or if it's just a persistent rumor that's starting to get into my head. I vaguely remember that being stated somewhere in the game, which would be a retcon even from Metroid Prime, where he was just the head of the security forces.
quote:
BTW, one thing I didn't like at all was suit-less Samus being able to resist so many enemy shots and to make those big jumps and wall bouncings by herself, without her Power Suit. I think all that part should've been shorter and more about infiltration, with one shot getting you killed.
I don't know, guess it disappointed me because I always assumed she was a normal woman (very well trained of course, but normal) who was able to do all that jumping and "energy recovering" thanks to her suit, but...
This is just because of the difficulty scaling in the game. If you search around for absolutely everything that you can find, the game gets really, really easy, sort of like levelling up in an RPG. If, however, you go for a speed run, which is required for almost all of the secret ending pictures, Samus is pathetically weak. On Normal Mode, one shot from a Space Pirate depletes one energy tank. So if you're going for a 15%+ speed run, like I was, you can only take two or three shots. If you're going for a -15% speed run, you can only take one shot. And if you play like that on Hard Mode, then her body might as well be wet tissue paper.
But strangely, according to a verified secret on GameFAQs, if you get 100% before facing Meta Ridley, then you'll face a tougher version of him that can take out several energy tanks with each claw swipe and requires three times as many missiles or super missiles to kill. Kind of an odd choice, considering that striving for 100% makes the entire rest of the game a cake walk.
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| Sensenic 1162th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(4):Metroid ZM, long, spoiler-full post" , posted Thu 4 Mar 03:36:
quote:
But strangely, according to a verified secret on GameFAQs, if you get 100% before facing Meta Ridley, then you'll face a tougher version of him that can take out several energy tanks with each claw swipe and requires three times as many missiles or super missiles to kill. Kind of an odd choice, considering that striving for 100% makes the entire rest of the game a cake walk.
Well, going for 100% shouldn't be THAT easy. It makes sense that they would force you to use your full missle capacity since at that point you would have every possible upgrade.
It's not that easy indeed. There's at least one energy tank in Chozodia that means hell for clumsy me to get it. All those Space Jumps in so little space... Argh!
Damn these 'skill test' secret areas they made up in Fusion! I want it more about exploring! Boo-hoo.... 
EDIT: And to think now I'll have to fight that version of metalRidley... Uh-oh x_x
quote:
Another retcon in Zero Mission is that, according to the manual's story, Mother Brain is now just the controller of Zebes' defense system. In the original game, Mother Brain was the leader of the space pirates, not just some organic supercomputer controlling some automated weapons.
And I can't remember if they actually refer to Ridley as "the leader of the Space Pirates" in the game, or if it's just a persistent rumor that's starting to get into my head. I vaguely remember that being stated somewhere in the game, which would be a retcon even from Metroid Prime, where he was just the head of the security forces.
Ridley was made leader of the Space Pirates back in Super Metroid.
What ?! WHAT??!! Since when MB is not the Space Pirates' leader?!
Specially in SM, where did you get that about Ridley being the leader in SM, Amakusa? Precisely in that game it's shown very clearly who's the leader and who's not: Samus says MB's it in the intro scene... and, well, it's precisely in SM's ending where MB shows you why, while Ridley is just the one in charge of the "dirty" jobs, that is, going to steal the hatchling at the Ceres Station (Zebes, Ceres... guess they weren't in their most creative days, back then, were they?  ).
Boy, and I thought this game was coherent.... u_u' They changed anything they wanted to. Ugh...
Oboromaru. Yup seems they're all "one-eyed" masked guys now. Just coincidence.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
[this message was edited by Sensenic on Thu 4 Mar 03:38] |
| Sensenic 1163th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(6):Metroid ZM, long, spoiler-full post" , posted Thu 4 Mar 12:50:
quote:
Super Metroid instruction manual, page 5.
"When Samus made her way to the research facility, she found the building in ruins and the Metroid larva was nowhere to be found. Out from the darkness came a group of Zebesian space pirates and their leader, Ridley, who had the Metroid larva in tow."
o_O{...
But I'd rather trust what the game itself says and shows over anything the manual says, no? Think about it, the game is the original one, identical to the Japanese version, while the manual was probably done in Nintendo of America, right? By some guy who either didn't care much about the story or just meant that he's the leader in the space station attack.
Phew... -_-
EDIT: Damn your italics, Kaepora 
Oboromaru. Yup seems they're all "one-eyed" masked guys now. Just coincidence.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
[this message was edited by Sensenic on Fri 5 Mar 00:06] |
| TiamatRoar 657th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(7):Metroid ZM, long, spoiler-full post" , posted Thu 4 Mar 16:51
quote:
Super Metroid instruction manual, page 5.
"When Samus made her way to the research facility, she found the building in ruins and the Metroid larva was nowhere to be found. Out from the darkness came a group of Zebesian space pirates and their leader, Ridley, who had the Metroid larva in tow."
o_O{...
But I'd rather trust what the game itself says and shows over anything the manual says, no? Think about it, the game is the original one, identical to the Japanese version, while the manual was probably done in Nintendo of America, right? By some guy who either didn't care much about the story or just meant that he's the leader in the space station attack.
Phew... -_-
I dunno... the SMB manual had an awful lot of storyline information for an action game for it to be just made up... but then again, you can never trust these silly foreign gaijin :P
http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/street_fighter_plot.txt
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| Sensenic 1163th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(3):Metroid ZM, long, spoiler-full post" , posted Fri 5 Mar 14:23
quote:
BTW, one thing I didn't like at all was suit-less Samus being able to resist so many enemy shots and to make those big jumps and wall bouncings by herself, without her Power Suit. I think all that part should've been shorter and more about infiltration, with one shot getting you killed.
I don't know, guess it disappointed me because I always assumed she was a normal woman (very well trained of course, but normal) who was able to do all that jumping and "energy recovering" thanks to her suit, but...
This is just because of the difficulty scaling in the game. If you search around for absolutely everything that you can find, the game gets really, really easy, sort of like levelling up in an RPG. If, however, you go for a speed run, which is required for almost all of the secret ending pictures, Samus is pathetically weak. On Normal Mode, one shot from a Space Pirate depletes one energy tank. So if you're going for a 15%+ speed run, like I was, you can only take two or three shots. If you're going for a -15% speed run, you can only take one shot. And if you play like that on Hard Mode, then her body might as well be wet tissue paper.
Yeah, yeah, you're right, about the difficulty, but that's not exactly what I meant. The point was a more argumental question: it's just that I always saw Samus as a normal woman who, you know, didn't have an "energy system". That'd have come from her Suit, which would've allowed to automatically repair any damage as long as it had enough energy, for example. Or anything similar.
But, instead of that, what suitless Samus part shows you is that Samus's the one actually gathering the "energy", she's the one who, somehow, "assimilates" the energy tanks into her body, not the suit (she's a Borg, maybe? :p).
And the same goes for the jumpings, I just thought she'd have been able to do those uber jumps thanks to her suit, not her "now seemingly by-far-superhuman" physical abilities.
quote:
But strangely, according to a verified secret on GameFAQs, if you get 100% before facing Meta Ridley, then you'll face a tougher version of him that can take out several energy tanks with each claw swipe and requires three times as many missiles or super missiles to kill. Kind of an odd choice, considering that striving for 100% makes the entire rest of the game a cake walk.
Well, I wouldn't know... It didn't seem to do that much extra damage. It seemed, though, more resistant indeed, but that could've been just clumsy me.
Oboromaru. Yup seems they're all "one-eyed" masked guys now. Just coincidence.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
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| The Big Bad
82th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Super Metroid Map." , posted Thu 8 Apr 03:06
Just beat the game, so yeah, bump. Spoilers ahead, if you sill havent played the game.
Is it just me, or did the game screw up the Super Metroid map? Isn't the elevator to the Morph Ball Room, supposed to be where the Hall of Energy Donuts is? Now it's in Super Metroid's Bomb room. Then again, the Super Metroid map seems to leave no room for the rest of Tourian v.1.0 so... they're both messed up? I hope not, since my new geek dream was to make a Super Metroid/Zero Mission map.
And yes, the Justin Bailey mode (I'm guessing they gave her a suit to disinvite even more comparision to Sigourney Weaver) does feel a bit tacked on. Still cool, though, especially since you get to revisit the Mother Brain chamber and see lots of cool stuff. Also, nice to see they explained Samus' Ship, and possibly the Wrecked Ship (which seems to have a more effective self destruct system than the Mother Brain one, but I digress).
Speaking of, how the hell did Samus get to the starting chamber?
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