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| Sensenic 993th Post
 
Red Carpet Regular Member++
    
    
    
|  "Some interesting details on FFXII"
, posted Thu 18 Dec 01:57:
Source: Vandal.net
First of all, the new characters' names are Balflear and Fran.
2nd, for da very first time in an (offline?) FF, the armors you equip to your characters will be externally visible!  . Knowing this, the first thing many people will do is, I guess, equip Van with some thick, heavy armor 
And, well, can't recall any image of it right now, but they say the 2 spheres next to the Status and Max gauges will be very important in this game's (supposedly surprising) fighting system.
And this brings me to this question... I think this game is very promising... but not as a Final Fantasy. This saga is slowly losing everything it had to it, all its characteristics (the music, the battle system, Sakaguchi's gone...), so I think it should be time for SE to say, a la Neo:
"It ends tonight." ;p "FF's been a great success, we're very proud of it, but now it's over. Instead of it we'll continue with blah, blah, and try with this/these new serie/s, blah, blah, whatsoever."
But I know they won't, and that they'll continue making games that'll eventually have nothing to do with FF, but that'll be called this way just because of easier, faster profit. : angryface : (Which this BBS doesn't have, BTW)
EDIT: Forgot to mention these 2 new guys will join soon in the game, and that there'll be a lot more of characters (I guess they're refering to playable ones, else it's no big deal)
Mwahahaha! I'm gonna murder someone...
How do you say "sushi" in Japanese? :D
Victoria Beckham (not confirmed)
[this message was edited by Sensenic on Thu 18 Dec 02:02] |
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| NARUTO 2005th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
| "Re(1):Some interesting details on FFXII" , posted Thu 18 Dec 02:04
quote:
Source: Vandal.net
First of all, the new characters' names are Balflear and Fran.
2nd, for da very first time in an (offline?) FF, the armors you equip to your characters will be externally visible! . Knowing this, the first thing many people will do is, I guess, equip Van with some thick, heavy armor
And, well, can't recall any image of it right now, but they say the 2 spheres next to the Status and Max gauges will be very important in this game's (supposedly surprising) fighting system.
And this brings me to this question... I think this game is very promising... but not as a Final Fantasy. This saga is slowly losing everything it had to it, all its characteristics (the music, the battle system, Sakaguchi's gone...), so I think it should be time for SE to say, a la Neo:
"It ends tonight." ;p "FF's been a great success, we're very proud of it, but now it's over. Instead of it we'll continue with blah, blah, and try with this/these new serie/s, blah, blah, whatsoever."
But I know they won't, and that they'll continue making games that'll eventually have nothing to do with FF, but that'll be called this way just because of easier, faster profit. : angryface : (Which this BBS doesn't have, BTW)
EDIT: Forgot to mention these 2 new guys will join soon in the game, and that there'll be a lot more of characters (I guess they're refering to playable ones, else it's no big deal)
Well IMO I didn't remeber that Sakaguchi have leaved SE...He just have changed of "position" in the company and So far he's still working on FF like the FF-2 end credit shows...
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| Sensenic 993th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(2):Some interesting details on FFXII" , posted Thu 18 Dec 02:24
quote:
Source: Vandal.net
First of all, the new characters' names are Balflear and Fran.
2nd, for da very first time in an (offline?) FF, the armors you equip to your characters will be externally visible! . Knowing this, the first thing many people will do is, I guess, equip Van with some thick, heavy armor
And, well, can't recall any image of it right now, but they say the 2 spheres next to the Status and Max gauges will be very important in this game's (supposedly surprising) fighting system.
And this brings me to this question... I think this game is very promising... but not as a Final Fantasy. This saga is slowly losing everything it had to it, all its characteristics (the music, the battle system, Sakaguchi's gone...) ....
Well IMO I didn't remeber that Sakaguchi have leaved SE...He just have changed of "position" in the company and So far he's still working on FF like the FF-2 end credit shows...
But I meant gone from FFXII, since he does nothing in that game. And FFX-2 is precisely one of the lost characteristics: no sequels.
Mwahahaha! I'm gonna murder someone...
How do you say "sushi" in Japanese? :D
Victoria Beckham (not confirmed)
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| Gojira 1225th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "What IS Final Fantasy?" , posted Thu 18 Dec 04:09
I've often wondered, since you bring it up: what do people think Final Fantasy is, anyway? We know it's a game, obviously. But what makes it Final Fantasy?
I personally don't think it's anything in particular, more a combination of things. I think that if you even try to narrow it down to any single or small group of physical elements in gameplay, you'll find that there's always at least one FF where that element was missing, or another game where that element was just as prevalent.
So, it just brings me to the conclusion that FF is FF. It's anything they want it to be, anything that enriches the culture of each game by influencing alternate realities; similar but not much. That's what I think FF is, and FFXII looks to be the same old difference to me, thus I think carrying on the name is fine.
Any other thoughts on this?
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| Genjuro 602th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(1):What IS Final Fantasy?" , posted Thu 18 Dec 05:36
quote:
I've often wondered, since you bring it up: what do people think Final Fantasy is, anyway? We know it's a game, obviously. But what makes it Final Fantasy?
I personally don't think it's anything in particular, more a combination of things. I think that if you even try to narrow it down to any single or small group of physical elements in gameplay, you'll find that there's always at least one FF where that element was missing, or another game where that element was just as prevalent.
So, it just brings me to the conclusion that FF is FF. It's anything they want it to be, anything that enriches the culture of each game by influencing alternate realities; similar but not much. That's what I think FF is, and FFXII looks to be the same old difference to me, thus I think carrying on the name is fine.
Any other thoughts on this?
My thoughts exactly.After the series started 'evolving' since FFVI every FF has different storylines ,battle system ,etc.
You can count on the same old crystal theme being there and seeing Cid as a mechanic and you can call it a FF.
The sequel is another thing(and XI of course).I don't really count that as a part of the series.They clearly need money so what the hell..let them do it..it's better than what Capcom is doing and it's all due to the economic disaster that was Spirits Within - yet they still bring us Advent Children :)
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| Sensenic 999th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(2):Re:Some interesting details on FFXII" , posted Fri 19 Dec 04:59
Wow, I've been left alone. A tough one, this is  . Lemme try:
Let's see... I know FF has been evolving, that its battle system was not always ATB, that chocobos weren't in FF1, summons weren't there until 3 (I think), etc, etc, etc. And I have nothing against it. And I know FFXII will still have more or less FF elements.
What I'm saying is that this evolution will get to some point that FF number 'n' won't have anything to do with the first ones, and that they'll still give it this name just for the easy profit; and that's what I'm against. If they try with new formulas, as they're doing with 12, that's perfect to me, but it gets to one point that these new formulas will be so different from the old ones that I think it's just more logical to start new sagas, titles, whatever. Boy, even FF has to come to an end, and if a saga that the only thing that relates one title to another are some elements and references (that not ALWAYS have to be there), like Ultima, summons, chocobos, crystal prelude theme, FF theme (not in FFX already), victory fanfare, similar battle system (specially, but not only, ATB), etc, ends up losing them all, then that is that end. It's not FF anymore, but a new, whether worse or better, series.
Innovation and evolution rocks. Taking profit of old glories to sell better new products sucks. That's what my opinion in one phrase, more or less.
quote:
2nd, for da very first time in an (offline?) FF, the armors you equip to your characters will be externally visible!
Technically, Final Fantasy X was the first one to have visible armor changes. It's just that your "armor" was a little wrist-mounted energy shield...
Well, you know what I meant...
quote:
And yes, FFXI does have fully modeled and visible equippable armor.
Yup, that's why I put the "(offline?)" part, because in the article I realized that Matsuno took that from FFXI, of which he seems to be a big fan. Thanks for clarifying it definitely to me.
Mwahahaha! I'm gonna murder someone...
How do you say "sushi" in Japanese? :D
Victoria Beckham (not confirmed)
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| gigaton
4th Post
New Customer
| "Re(6):Re:Some interesting details on FFXII" , posted Fri 19 Dec 19:18
quote:
Yep... unfortunately, when it's all said and done, money is what keeps people in business to make games... and Square will make whatever they think will deliver the money, or there WILL be a Final Fantasy. I mean, if FFX didn't sell SO well, there would be no X-2 anyway.
It just occurred to me, and I was just thinking something like that actually... Square stakes so much of their budget, time and resources on Final Fantasy it's become a make-or-break thing. They put everything they have into making them only to get it all back and start the next one. There hasn't been any huge failure attached to Final Fantasy (well, game-wise... forget the movie). Even the one that was said to be the biggest failure - FFXI - has recovered from that status thanks to patches and updates. If a FF ever becomes a truly spectacular failure then there would be no Square(nix). Maybe that's the only reason they keep calling it by that name.
Final Fantasy XI is considered a failure? Last I heard it won MMORPG of the year and is highly respected/reviewed .. I wouldn't call it a failure. Even before the recent patches. Square reached the number they wanted to reach to consider it a successful game some time ago, yes? Although it has not sold near the amounts of a 'normal' Final Fantasy game beause of its MMORPG nature I would still call the game a success based on the expectations Square set for themselves - being realistic by understanding that the game was a MMORPG and an experiment. Smashing success really.
Final Fantasy is a number of different things and can't really be pigeon holed. The evolvement of technology and our own expectations will continue the series evolution. They'll stick with a formula until its overused and then change up as technology and folks expectations change. The similarities between the games in sets of 'threes' isn't concindental cause those sets are in concert with the changing times and available technology and maturity of the target age groups.
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| iggy 2299th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Re:Some interesting details on FFXII" , posted Sat 20 Dec 01:05
quote:
Square stakes so much of their budget, time and resources on Final Fantasy it's become a make-or-break thing.
You sound like they didn't do anything else than FFs. Thanks to huge, heavy and boring-mainstream games like FF, they were able to take some risks and deliver some of the best games of the SFC and the PS1, Rudora, Legend of Mana, Vagrant, and one of the best most innovative games of the PS2, U:Saga. Thank you FF for beeing the huge money maker you are, I will continue to despise you and play all the interesting games you made possible.
And don't worry for SquarEnix. Enix was a much, much stronger company than Square was, they can take a lot more failures than Square could. Look at the last DQs.
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| Gojira 1228th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(7):Re:Some interesting details on FFXII" , posted Sat 20 Dec 04:33
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You sound like they didn't do anything else than FFs. Thanks to huge, heavy and boring-mainstream games like FF, they were able to take some risks and deliver some of the best games of the SFC and the PS1, Rudora, Legend of Mana, Vagrant, and one of the best most innovative games of the PS2, U:Saga. Thank you FF for beeing the huge money maker you are, I will continue to despise you and play all the interesting games you made possible.
I said they don't do anything else? That's not what I meant to say at all. If any of those games other than FF were to fail (and some did) the effect is there, but it's not crucial to the company. The budget for the average game may seem high, but the budget for these games are NOTHING compared to FF's budget. I think you understand already, but just to re-iterate: if FF were to fail utterly the effect would eventually spread into these Vagrant Tactic SaGa 2D vs 3D Pro #1 Cross games.
quote:
And don't worry for SquarEnix. Enix was a much, much stronger company than Square was, they can take a lot more failures than Square could. Look at the last DQs.
Enix has had its share of failures though. Dragon Warrior (Quest) 6 didn't make anywhere near the impact on North America that they had hoped. In the end it turned out to be a continuation of the downward spiral DW was going through here many years earlier.
I'm not really all that worried though. With them combined it would take at least 2 huge failures to screw them up. And this isn't really about me thinking they're going to fail anyway.
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| Sensenic 1005th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(4):Re:Some interesting details on FFXII" , posted Sat 20 Dec 07:27:
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Innovation and evolution rocks. Taking profit of old glories to sell better new products sucks. That's what my opinion in one phrase, more or less.
Then Square has been sucking since FF2. All the FF games thus far have had no significant relation to one another(excepting X-2). They were named FF simply to sell more copies.
Not at all. Precisely, to me the best point of this whole saga is every chapter not being plot-wise related to the other, but they are all of them heavily related (although now slowly loosing it).
The references, the common enemies that have been there since the first chapter, the white, black, red and blue magics/mages, the FF, crystal prelude, chocobo and victory fanfare themes, the similar, mostly ATB, battle system, Cid, the chocobos, the moogles, the summons, the crystals, the music style, the sprites in the 3 first, the airships, Amano, Uematsu and Sakaguchi, arf, arf... Should I continue?
All these clearly distinguishes FF as a saga with no "sequeling" necessary.
EDIT: Oh, I've read it all again and it really gives the impression I'm specially worried about FFXII's battle system. It's not the case. I'm worried about the whole saga, and more about the next to come chapters than XII itself (which, at least, FF-looking or not, so far looks really promising).
Mind you. 
"Kensu" & "Asina" such a nice couple.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
[this message was edited by Sensenic on Sat 20 Dec 07:44] |
| Sensenic 1008th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(6):Re:Some interesting details on FFXII" , posted Sat 20 Dec 15:05:
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Well Sensenic I didn't read the last post but I have checked something, Sakagushi is working on FF 12, he even was the one who shows it at the Square show. So he's on it.
¿? I read he'd been left out of the series. Maybe the news was wrong, but not that it had that much importance though (it was a bad example from me), since he's only working as the "producer", like in all of the last titles, where he didn't do that much.
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So do Uematsu who is writing the music an the song of the game as well.
Well, you said it right, he's writing THE song. Only one.
He's making the... euh... game's representative theme, if you see what I mean, just as Suteki da ne (did I write it right? ^_^') to FFX, Eyes on Me to FFVIII and so on. The guy who did Vagrant Story's music, sorry for not remembering his name, does the rest. AFAIK.
"Kensu" & "Asina" such a nice couple.
Damn boredom that can kill you with a sword!
A friend of mine talking about elves in LOTR
[this message was edited by Sensenic on Sat 20 Dec 15:07] |
| iggy 2308th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):Re(10):Re:Some interesting details on F" , posted Sun 21 Dec 02:22
quote:
So their primary objective was to make an RPG that only people who are Japanese would like?
...
What I mean is that there are games that can be popular both in Japan and in the US, some that will be more popular in the US even though they are done in Japan, so the sequel will listen more to the complains of the US players than to those of the japanese players, and vice versa. And everytime when you aim a particular target, you know you will appeal to people out of the target, and it's nice, but it was not your primary objective, it's just some icing on the cake. Seeing the uglyness of DQ7, which I guess was one of the reasons was unpopular in the US but didn't raise that much complains in Japan, I say that DQ7 belongs to the vice versa category.
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| Kikkoken 563th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(4):Re(10):Re:Some interesting details on F" , posted Sun 21 Dec 04:09
quote:
So their primary objective was to make an RPG that only people who are Japanese would like?
...
What I mean is that there are games that can be popular both in Japan and in the US, some that will be more popular in the US even though they are done in Japan, so the sequel will listen more to the complains of the US players than to those of the japanese players, and vice versa. And everytime when you aim a particular target, you know you will appeal to people out of the target, and it's nice, but it was not your primary objective, it's just some icing on the cake. Seeing the uglyness of DQ7, which I guess was one of the reasons was unpopular in the US but didn't raise that much complains in Japan, I say that DQ7 belongs to the vice versa category.
BTW, are you vice versa, Iggy?
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| Gojira 1234th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(4):Re(10):Re:Some interesting details on F" , posted Sun 21 Dec 05:36
quote:
...
What I mean is that there are games that can be popular both in Japan and in the US, some that will be more popular in the US even though they are done in Japan, so the sequel will listen more to the complains of the US players than to those of the japanese players, and vice versa. And everytime when you aim a particular target, you know you will appeal to people out of the target, and it's nice, but it was not your primary objective, it's just some icing on the cake. Seeing the uglyness of DQ7, which I guess was one of the reasons was unpopular in the US but didn't raise that much complains in Japan, I say that DQ7 belongs to the vice versa category.
Okay, this is becoming almost irrelevant now.
How can I explain this...
You're just saying they'll never fail in the Japanese market. Which I'm sure is ludicrous, but I only have knowledge of the US market and very little of the Japanese market so I won't try. (Not that you've done any better to prove your point.)
Even if it is so, it just doesn't matter. All I have to say is that Enix lost a lot of money on a bad business decision, and had to shut down one of its branches as a result. It doesn't matter where... it could have been anywhere from Kyoto to New York to Copenhagen; the one who lost the money was the whole company of Enix. So it is a failure etched into the history of Enix.
Which goes back to my original statement: Enix HAS had failures, so they can fail sometimes. Really that's all I'm saying, and I don't think I'm being unrealistic.
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| trufenix
82th Post
Occasional Customer
| "I can't take it anymore!" , posted Mon 22 Dec 07:19:
Gojira, the point Iggy is making is that there are two entirely seperate markets. The west (us and euro), and the east (japan).
Predominantely, games designed by eastern borne companies are made with japan's concerns in mind, the western money and support is nice and all, but it is not tremendously relevant to them in the grand scheme of things. You can always tell the difference between those types of games because they get very little advertising / attention stateside.
Therefore DQ7's (did DQ6 even come out here?) relative failure in the states means nothing to Enix, and can hardly be considered a "black mark" on the company since like all DQs it sold like hotcakes in Japan (the target market) and that is all they wanted.
Final Fantasy (as of late), ironically enough, is heavily tailored or at least made with some concern for western gamers in mind, thus it would be a blow to say, Squaresoft if we all turned our noses up at the latest release, but since up until now at least, Square has not failed to make one that sold through the roof in the states I doubt there is much concern. And even if they did succeed in making a Final Fantasy that made no splash in america, it could still hardly be considered a failure, since (like all RPGs) it would have already sold several billion copies in Japan.
In summary, rest assured the west has very little effect on wether an eastern game (or at least RPGs) is a success / failure or not. I'm sure there are some RPGs that way in pretty craptacularly in Japan, but none of them are named "Final Fantasy" or "Dragon Quest" which are now both wholely owned by a single entity.
-F.
Resistance is flammable! No one can snuff my flames!
[this message was edited by trufenix on Mon 22 Dec 07:21] |
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"Re(5):What IS Final Fantasy?" 
