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Krzyzewski Man
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"Darkstalkers/Vampire Competition Question" , posted Tue 9 Dec 22:08post reply


What's the most recent example of competitive play in this series? I'd also like to know some details, like the top players and who they played. Last thing - what are the advanced strategies that the top players use? I'm talking about stuff like RC in CvS2 and kara-throw in 3rd Strike.





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black_hayato
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"Re(1):Darkstalkers/Vampire Competition Questi" , posted Wed 10 Dec 00:00:post reply


quote:
What's the most recent example of competitive play in this series? I'd also like to know some details, like the top players and who they played. Last thing - what are the advanced strategies that the top players use? I'm talking about stuff like RC in CvS2 and kara-throw in 3rd Strike.



The most I've seen from vids is Raptor's unblockable drop kick, and a semi-infinite from BBHood and push blocking. The game is kind of straight forward. You could probably do good with most characters except Donovan. Its the reason why its one of my fav games. The top tiers I've seen are Sasquash, Raptor and Q-Bee. With Hsienko(mastering her command EX within a combo and dp cancel is a must), Bishamon, Lilith, Victor(Elec and damage), and BBHood up there too. I think its more about bad match-ups.

http://www.din.or.jp/~waiter-7/zabe01.htm
some really good torny vids here. 4 vid down has a great come back.





[this message was edited by black_hayato on Wed 10 Dec 00:04]

Krzyzewski Man
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"Re(2):Darkstalkers/Vampire Competition Questi" , posted Wed 10 Dec 00:14:post reply


quote:
The most I've seen from vids is Raptor's unblockable drop kick, and a semi-infinite from BBHood and push blocking.


What makes the drop kick unblockable? Also, is there a trick to push blocking, or is it just an anti-pressure thing? I think I've seen that semi-infinite; doesn't it incorporate a dash as part of it?

quote:
The game is kind of straight forward. You could probably do good with most characters except Donovan.


What makes him lower tier?

quote:
Its the reason why its one of my fav games. The top tiers I've seen are Sasquash, Raptor and Q-Bee. With Hsienko(mastering her command EX within a combo and dp cancel is a must), Bishamon, Lilith, Victor(Elec and damage), and BBHood up there too. I think its more about bad match-ups.


By that I take it that there are lots of counter characters; what are some of the more common counters? Also, isn't Jedah higher tier?

quote//www.din.or.jp/~waiter-7/zabe01.htm
some really good torny vids here. 4 vid down has a great come back.



Thanks a bunch. I may have to wait to see these. The Honors college computers just downloaded the sound file, they do that a lot. I'll try the public lab computers.





Press be asking do I care for sodomy
I don't know yeah probably
-Robbie Williams
CMFPIWSFAOMFG!!!!

[this message was edited by Krzyzewski Man on Wed 10 Dec 00:20]

black_hayato
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"Re(3):Darkstalkers/Vampire Competition Questi" , posted Wed 10 Dec 00:36:post reply


Honestly I forget how the infinite and unblockable work. Raptor's drop kick d/u+kick works only in a certain condition like after a knockdown and in the corner.

Donovan is the worst in the game because he has no offensive momenteum. He just can't keep up with the likes of Lilith or Q-Bee. His normals are slower than others, and are beat out by most other characters. Its sad that all of the larger characters like Anakaris and Victor are just as or more nimble and versatile than him. His fireball and dp are worthless and laggy. The electric reverse dp move is good in some situations and Killshred is only good if you can set it up right. Which is a little more harder to set up with VS's rushdown gameplay. His EXs also can be seen a mile away. Even his guard reversal is poor. For Vampire Savior he seemed to be the least improved. And no good dash.

Jedah is middle imo. He telegraphs his set ups alot. You know what the dio cega is for, and you can see when he wants to cross-up easy, etc. But he good all round if you can get the hang of his dash properties/air game and set-ups for forced blocks for his EXs.





[this message was edited by black_hayato on Wed 10 Dec 00:42]

Krzyzewski Man
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"Re(4):Darkstalkers/Vampire Competition Questi" , posted Wed 10 Dec 00:40:post reply


quote:
Donovan is the worst in the game because he has no offensive momenteum. He just can't keep up with the likes of Lilith or Q-Bee. His normals are slower than others, and are beat out by most other characters. Its sad that all of the larger characters like Anakaris and Victor are just as or more nimble and versatile than him. His fireball and dp are worthless and laggy. The electric reverse dp move is good in some situations and Killshred is only good if you can set it up right. Which is a little more harder to set up with VS's rushdown gameplay. His EXs also can be seen a mile away. Even his guard reversal is poor. For Vampire Savior he seemed to be the least improved. And no good dash.



Dang - I'd heard that Donovan was de-emphasized a lot, but that's pretty bad. I mean, wasn't he the main character of one of the games?

Hmm... so Jedah's main weakness is predictability, eh? Sounds like my kinda character. I'm too scrubby to be predictable.

Heyyyy... wait a minute... if you're Black Hayato, then why is your avatar regular Hayato?





Press be asking do I care for sodomy
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[this message was edited by Krzyzewski Man on Wed 10 Dec 01:53]

Krzyzewski Man
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"Saw some of the Videos" , posted Wed 10 Dec 04:57:post reply


Quite excellent. Who was the actual guy they were filming?

Oh... and a couple of things seemed to stand out. Why did some people seem to have no use for meter except for ES pursuits? It seemed like Felicia and Zabel especially weren't using much.

I'll get back later - I'm still watching.

Edit: More stuff.

Anakaris looked sick when he was used. Isn't he supposed to be slow?
Conversely, no one seemed to use Jedah all that effectively. I really had heard he was good, but it seemed like he was used to.
Is Bulleta's ES pursuit more powerful than most others?
What are the logistics of Victor's electric normals? I know how to do them, but what are they usually used for? They seemed to be really counter-productive at times.
Does Lilith have especially high throw priority? It seemed like she normal-threw a lot. Is there anyone else with that kinda priority on their normal throws?





Press be asking do I care for sodomy
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CMFPIWSFAOMFG!!!!

[this message was edited by Krzyzewski Man on Wed 10 Dec 05:18]

talbaineric
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"Re(1):Saw some of the Videos" , posted Wed 10 Dec 05:25post reply


It's such a shame this game didn't get the tournament status it should've gotten. It's one of the greatest games of all time after all.

I only play as Talbain,and no one else in the DS series. I'm pretty good with him.






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Krzyzewski Man
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"Re(2):Saw some of the Videos" , posted Wed 10 Dec 05:40post reply


quote:
It's such a shame this game didn't get the tournament status it should've gotten. It's one of the greatest games of all time after all.

I only play as Talbain,and no one else in the DS series. I'm pretty good with him.



What's his high-level strategy? He seemed to do a lot of vertical jumping for some reason in the video.





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iggy
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"Re(1):Saw some of the Videos" , posted Wed 10 Dec 06:25:post reply


quote:
Anakaris looked sick when he was used. Isn't he supposed to be slow?

The King's charm point is not in his slowness, it's in his weirdness. He is huge and slow BUT he is a seme-chara ("aggressive character"?). Look at the Bulleta vs The King video : even though Bulleta is a big ass killer, she gets caught to her opponent's pace and can't fight back ; like they say, when you fight an aggressive King using effectively his standing middle punch, "you can't predict his attacks -> you don't want to stay on the ground -> you get shot down -> you get attacked".
And as you may have guessed, Anakaris is my all time favourite character. The Togame no ana is the best move ever.





[this message was edited by iggy on Wed 10 Dec 06:31]

StickClick
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"Re(2):Saw some of the Videos" , posted Wed 10 Dec 08:18post reply


Mmm... great link! I've been wanting to see some Vampire videos for quite some time...

Good stuff in there.





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Black_Hayato
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"Re(3):Saw some of the Videos" , posted Wed 10 Dec 13:11post reply


quote:
It's such a shame this game didn't get the tournament status it should've gotten. It's one of the greatest games of all time after all.

I only play as Talbain,and no one else in the DS series. I'm pretty good with him.


What's his high-level strategy? He seemed to do a lot of vertical jumping for some reason in the video.





The vertical jumping was accompanied with attacks. They were meter building. If you watch some Bishamon matches he would constantly do mks(or was it hks) that look like he's stabbing his foot.The vertical jumping was accompanied with attacks. They were meter building. If you watch some Bishamon matches he would constantly do mks(or was it hk). Its safe.

ES pursuits and reversals are safer and more worth while, unless the character has a pursuit EX or useful EX.





OYashiroForever
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"Re(1):Darkstalkers/Vampire Competition Questi" , posted Wed 10 Dec 14:09:post reply


As someone who actually played Vampire Savior in a competitive atmosphere for a long time, I can tell you that the game got zero respect in the US and that's a damn shame. It got a lot of play in Japan (and still does, as evidenced by the game's inclusion in SBO2).

Anywho, nearly every character is effective due to the nature of the game and every character is good for a different reason (my definition of balance). Many have great cross-up/rushdown tactics (Sasquatch, Jedah, Felicia), others have big-damage options (Bulleta/Hood, Bishamon, Lilith/Morrigan) and some just have good gimmicks/confusion tactics (Anakaris, Zabel/Raptor).

With the exception of all the aerial movement and chains, the gameplay is very old-school: a lot of tick-throwing and a lot of emphasis on screen position/distancing.

As far as tricks, there are no RCs, guard breaking, or other irritating tactics in VS. There are a couple of infinites and glitches, but none of them are effective enough to break the game. Dark Forces are, for the most part, useless and in the few cases in which they are useful, they're never overpowering. Meter's usually better off spent doing ES Specials, Counters, and Pursuits.

I have about a gigs' worth of Japanese Savior tourney vids and a couple of combo vids (including the really good Gamest one) lying around. Hopefully the inclusion of VS in SBO2 will spark some of the US crowd to get in to it. It's way better than 98% of the crap that gets played competitively in the States (*cough*Tekken 4*cough*).

Edit: Feel free to ask questions and I'll answer them as best I can. (It's been a while, so I might be a lil' rusty)





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[this message was edited by OYashiroForever on Wed 10 Dec 14:13]

talbaineric
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"Re(3):Saw some of the Videos" , posted Wed 10 Dec 14:47post reply


quote:
It's such a shame this game didn't get the tournament status it should've gotten. It's one of the greatest games of all time after all.

I only play as Talbain,and no one else in the DS series. I'm pretty good with him.


What's his high-level strategy? He seemed to do a lot of vertical jumping for some reason in the video.



Yeah,but I don't think he was made to be a jumper really. Unless you're a beginner scrub.

The stabbing foot attack mentioned is his Crouching MK. I usually use this a lot when I'm stuck,but I'm a combo freak with Talbain. You can combo his Jab and Strong into a Fierce or Roundhouse,or his Flail attack. Or another one I use to jump start my combo is follow up my JP,SP,MK into a Moment Slice.

I own with Talbain.






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StickClick
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"Re(2):Darkstalkers/Vampire Competition Questi" , posted Wed 10 Dec 14:50post reply


quote:
I have about a gigs' worth of Japanese Savior tourney vids and a couple of combo vids (including the really good Gamest one) lying around. Hopefully the inclusion of VS in SBO2 will spark some of the US crowd to get in to it. It's way better than 98% of the crap that gets played competitively in the States (*cough*Tekken 4*cough*).



Hey... would you be willing to upload the Gamest vid to my FTP if I gave you the info.?
[Actually, first of all... how big is it?]

Let me know...





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OYashiroForever
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"Re(3):Darkstalkers/Vampire Competition Questi" , posted Wed 10 Dec 15:24post reply


It's ~250 megs... and that's in WMV format. It's about 25 minutes long.

I have others that are shorter (7-10 mins.) and a little more reasonable that still have great stuff on 'em.

Either way, I'd be happy to send whatever you want.





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StickClick
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"Re(4):Darkstalkers/Vampire Competition Questi" , posted Wed 10 Dec 15:30:post reply


quote:
It's ~250 megs... and that's in WMV format. It's about 25 minutes long.

I have others that are shorter (7-10 mins.) and a little more reasonable that still have great stuff on 'em.

Either way, I'd be happy to send whatever you want.



Cool. Let's try the Gamest vid. for now.

You can upload it to this FTP:

HOST: host123.ipowerweb.com [Port: 21]
USER: guest@click-stick.com
PASSWORD: shooting

You can toss it in the folder labeled 'incoming.'

Let me know when it's done... Thanks a lot! I appreciate it.





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[this message was edited by StickClick on Wed 10 Dec 15:32]

Krzyzewski Man
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"Re(2):Saw some of the Videos" , posted Wed 10 Dec 15:52post reply


quote:
The King's charm point is not in his slowness, it's in his weirdness. He is huge and slow BUT he is a seme-chara ("aggressive character"?). Look at the Bulleta vs The King video : even though Bulleta is a big ass killer, she gets caught to her opponent's pace and can't fight back ; like they say, when you fight an aggressive King using effectively his standing middle punch, "you can't predict his attacks -> you don't want to stay on the ground -> you get shot down -> you get attacked".
And as you may have guessed, Anakaris is my all time favourite character. The Togame no ana is the best move ever.



Ahh. That's nice to know. Now, how do you feel about his Marvel vs. Capcom 2 incarnation?

Oh, and by the way: how do you think the "yanki" did?





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OYashiroForever
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"Re(3):Saw some of the Videos" , posted Wed 10 Dec 16:54:post reply


quote:
Ahh. That's nice to know. Now, how do you feel about his Marvel vs. Capcom 2 incarnation?

Oh, and by the way: how do you think the "yanki" did?

1) Anakaris in MvC2 is strictly low-tier, only in front of Dan, Roll, and Kobun, and maybe a couple of others. He has a couple of tricks (throw assist can be mildly useful and he has a 300% touch of death combo). However, his supers got raped (Coffin Drop is useless and Pharoah Magic requires 3 levels?! Weak) and you'll never get the touch of death combo in tournament play unless someone's really napping. He doesn't have the mobility that is required to compete in that game. If he'd been given some of the tricks he had in Vampire Savior (corner dash, etc.), he could've been pretty good... as is, he's pretty much useless.

2) Yanki? You mean the Japanese player or is that slang for a character I'm not aware of?

Edit: I'll look for the Gamest vid and try to get it up by the end of the night... no promises, though. I've gotta dig through all of my CD-Rs, which could take a while.





"Only two things are infinite the universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former."

"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see through you."

[this message was edited by OYashiroForever on Wed 10 Dec 16:56]

iggy
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"Re(3):Saw some of the Videos" , posted Thu 11 Dec 00:29post reply


quote:
Ahh. That's nice to know. Now, how do you feel about his Marvel vs. Capcom 2 incarnation?

Like a child that got a huge candy he has been wanting for years, only to discover it is full of razor blades.
I know I continued to play it until my tongue fall off, though.

quote:
Oh, and by the way: how do you think the "yanki" did?

I don't get it either.





Krzyzewski Man
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"Re(4):Saw some of the Videos" , posted Thu 11 Dec 01:00post reply


quote:

Like a child that got a huge candy he has been wanting for years, only to discover it is full of razor blades.
I know I continued to play it until my tongue fall off, though.


Ah, come on, that's too witty and laid-back. I WANT SOME HELLBORN ANGER, BOY!

No, really. It'll take the pain away from that mostly-empty mouth of yours.

quote:
Oh, and by the way: how do you think the "yanki" did?
I don't get it either.



Yankee. You know, slang for an American schmuck. Now that I think about it, "yanki" is probably exclusive property of Babelfish. They can keep it.





Press be asking do I care for sodomy
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NARUTO
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"Re(5):Saw some of the Videos" , posted Thu 11 Dec 01:52post reply


well since this Vampire thread is here I will ask if anyone can provide me with some advenced Technique with characters like Q-bee, Phobos and Pyron.