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| Luisinan 593th Post
 
New Red Carpet Member
 
    
    
|  "Re(2):SF vs. KOF: Relations..."
, posted Tue 25 Nov 20:13
quote:
...Otherwise, they're little more than reasonably well-made fighting games. You can find those anywhere.
Well, I wouldn't go as far as say that. KOF and MOTW have strong game engines. This made me think, why did SNK fighters never fully catch on in the US? Was it because SF2 came out first and caught all the attention? Well, all of the early 2D fighters had pretty spotty game engines but SF2 probably had the best one. FF1 and AOF1 had pretty crufty engines.
But back on topic, yeah, the focus on relationships and the semi-realistic character designs are what make SNK fighters unique. Capcom primarily relies on iconic designs (as some of you have pointed out)- but the funny thing is that Capcom had begun to emphasize relationships too. It started in SFA1 and culminated in SFA3. There are quite a few character linkages-- I'll point out some of the obvious and less obvious ones.
Ryu-Ken-Guy. Some old Capcom artworks had the three characters interacting together. Capcom never quite explained their link, but the official artworks portray the three as friends.
(Gouken)-Ryu-Dan-Sagat-Adon-Akuma. Here's a fun one. Gouken is Ryu and Dan's master. Dan's wants to fight Sagat and avenge his father's death. Sagat is Adon's teacher. Adon wants to defeat Akuma so that he can learn his secrets. And of course, Akuma killed Gouken, Ryu and Dan's teacher.
Akuma-Gen-Chun Li-Charlie/Guile-Bison. Akuma and Gen see each other as rivals. Gen taught Chun Li a few moves when she was a child. Chun Li and Charlie/Guile are after Bison. Bison was killed by Akuma in SF2.
Ryu-Dan-Blanka-Sakura-Karin-Ken. Ryu and Dan trained under Gouken. Blanka and Sakura are Dan's 'students'. Sakura also wants to train under Ryu. Karin sees Sakura as her rival. Karin and Ken spar before fighting their true rival (Sakura and Ryu respectively). In SFA3 Karin acknowledges that Ken is the US martial arts champion and sort of respects him.
Ryu-Ken-Guile-Bison. Ryu and Ken trained together. Ken married Guile's sister-in-law. Guile is after Bison. Bison is after Ryu. Thanks to TiamatRoar for giving the 'in-law' info on this one.
Bison-Cammy-Juni-Juli-T Hawk. Bison started the "Doll" program with Cammy. Cammy is the original "Doll" with Juni and Juli as later "Doll" soldiers. Juli is T Hawk's sister (or wife?) and T Hawk is trying to recover her from Bison, while also going after Bison for destroying his village. You might be able to throw in Vega into this link, because I think he saved Cammy's life in SFA3, delivering her the British authorities, thus allowing her to become "SSF2 Cammy."
E Honda-Sodom-Rolento-Cody-Guy-Maki. E Honda once fought Sodom in a sumo match. Sodom and Rolento were old Mad Gear buddies. Cody and Guy dismantled Mad Gear. Maki is in search of Guy. Maki and E Honda are Japanese. Okay, that last one is not a link but it's still a semi-interesting chain.
Anyway SFA3 has a lot more linkages but I think these are the best ones I could think of. If you notice, there aren't any SF3 characters (except characters that were not new but appeared in SF3). Sean has a semi-link to Dan, in that, he doesn't want to be called Dan. But that's about it. Urien also recognizes Chun Li as the woman who took down an old organization. We assume he's talking about Shadowloo.
Bored? "160"
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| aderack
89th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(3):SF vs. KOF: Relations..." , posted Wed 26 Nov 09:57:
Oh, Gah. Typed up a long reply, and it got eaten. I even copied and pasted before I sent it, but somehow the wrong thing got copied. Anyway.
quote:
Well, I wouldn't go as far as say that. KOF and MOTW have strong game engines.
I wouldn't entirely, either. I's just: if it were only about one engine versus another, that wouldn't be terribly interesting or distinctive. You'd be down to splitting hairs. The personalities, relationships, and the atmosphere those create -- that just gives SNK an added edge. It gives some context for the fighting system to exist at all.
Something that I find aesthetically interesting is that SNK's game designs and fighting engines tend to mirror that focus. Whichever you're talking about -- the emotion or the logic -- you tend to need to spend more time with a King of Fighters or a Samurai Spirits than you do with a Street Fighter or a Darkstalkers, in order to personally get as much out of it. While they're both entirely valid approaches, and Capcom's games are deep in their own respective way, Capcom tends to more focus on immediacy. With SNK, you don't so much know what's going on until you do your research and you spend some time absorbing the subtleties and discerning what they might mean in a broader sense.
And yet, then once you're inside enough to understand how the games think, you've invested so much into their vision that you tend to feel an attachment. It would take more effort to claw your way out again than to keep going and following what's up next.
quote:
This made me think, why did SNK fighters never fully catch on in the US?
There was a study a while back, of socital personalities. Some researchers asked a bunch of schoolchildren what they look for in an ideal friend. While of course this is a horrible generalization, the study found that American kids tended to prefer friends who were outgoing, energetic, friendly. Japanese children preferred more reserved, sensitive, imaginative friends.
This is a simplistic response, but I submit that SNK might just be that reserved friend with untold depths, as opposed to the outgoing friend who puts everything in front of you.
EricJonRösselWaugh
YOU CANNOT STOP ME WITH JUST A PARAMECIUM!
[this message was edited by aderack on Wed 26 Nov 10:03] |
| Krzyzewski Man 254th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(7):SF vs. KOF: Relations..." , posted Fri 28 Nov 18:32
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But... what's the point of SNK unrequited love relationships? They never work out in the end. They might as well not have any like SF, with the exception of SF's Balrog(Ninja) and Cammy's thing, which will never work out either.
Galford and Nakaruru - She dies.
However, it looks like SS0 is retconning some of the other games, so the couple might be back. Then again, Nakoruru is so popular that they might not want to associate her with anyone else. You know, stealing the innocence of little Japanese schoolgirls, what with their chaste little heroine gettin' some. 
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Shiki and Genjuro - Nope.
Well, that does make some sense, given that Genjuro would probably end up killing her for looking at him funny.
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Haohmaru and Charlotte - Haohmaru hooks up with someone else.
Well, there's a hook-up, at least.
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Terry and Blue Mary - She's not in MOTW. Most likely she got tired of his lone wolf Ass.
That, or her boobs are sagging.
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Ryo and King - Not yet.
Uh, it probably won't be long now. Remember the ending with Takuma diverting the Zero Cannon?
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Andy and Mai - I'm willing to bet that if they show up in MOTW2 they still won't be together!
They're the comic relief. They're a special case. (Remember the push-up/reading a book ending? )
quote:
YEESH! Even Ranma 1/2 has resolved more unrequited loves than SNK...
They resolved some? 
Aren't cysts neato?
CMFPIWSFAOMFG!!!!
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| iggy 2190th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
  
| "Re(8):SF vs. KOF: Relations..." , posted Fri 28 Nov 20:14
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YEESH! Even Ranma 1/2 has resolved more unrequited loves than SNK...
Well, there are solid love relations at SNK... Ukyô and I don't remember her name, Basara and Kagaribi (... in a twisted-goth-visual way), Shiki and Asura (in the same way), Kim Kaphwan has a wife we never saw, but one of his sons has a girlfriend, Kyô and Yuki, Yoshitora and his harem, K' and Maxima... Robert and Yuri also are officially together since AoF1, even though they don't need to talk about it every time they appear.
On SF side, you get Dahlsim, Guile and Ken with a healthy familly life, Sakura in the future, and Zangief, who doesn't have any child or wife but as many... interesting brothers and sisters. Also Tiffany-Roy or Kyôko-Hideo. I'm sure there are more.
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| TiamatRoar 582th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(9):SF vs. KOF: Relations..." , posted Fri 28 Nov 22:45:
quote:
YEESH! Even Ranma 1/2 has resolved more unrequited loves than SNK...
Well, there are solid love relations at SNK... Ukyô and I don't remember her name, Basara and Kagaribi (... in a twisted-goth-visual way), Shiki and Asura (in the same way), Kim Kaphwan has a wife we never saw, but one of his sons has a girlfriend, Kyô and Yuki, Yoshitora and his harem, K' and Maxima... Robert and Yuri also are officially together since AoF1, even though they don't need to talk about it every time they appear.
On SF side, you get Dahlsim, Guile and Ken with a healthy familly life, Sakura in the future, and Zangief, who doesn't have any child or wife but as many... interesting brothers and sisters. Also Tiffany-Roy or Kyôko-Hideo. I'm sure there are more.
Thing is, I think the thread topic was referring to playable character relations with each other, so things like Guile's wife wouldn't count while things like Andy's relationship with Mai would (though I agree that most SNK relationships kinda don't go anywhere. Or if they MIGHT be going anywhere, such as King's, it sure as heck is taking a looooong time). ...er, anyways, Street Fighter doesn't have as many playable character to playable character relationships as KOF (actually, only ones I can think of are Chun-Li Charlie which was cut short when he died, and Vega/Balrog to Cammy which at least actually did something but was storyline-chronologically dropped during SF2 for the most part), though Rival Schools sure as heck has plenty. Though I REALLY dislike when people say that this is what makes KOF's story 'deep' when nearly all those relationships kinda like... don't actually DO anything or go anywhere. It's okay to say that they add flavor, or that you enjoy them, or whatever, but 'deep' or any synonyms of the word (intrigue to a point, heart to a point, weight, scope...) is... well, an overexaggeration, IMHO.
http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/street_fighter_plot.txt
[this message was edited by TiamatRoar on Fri 28 Nov 22:54] |
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no one's every what they seem..."
