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| Sensenic 915th Post
 
Red Carpet Regular Member++
    
    
    
|  "About KOF (Billy 'n Yama, part 2)"
, posted Sat 15 Nov 04:53:
Since that thread is getting too big I've decided to continue the apparently now general KOF discussion here. That said, here I'm replying to the last posts by Gen, Luisinan, Undead Fred and Naruto.
"Iku ze" (or "Iku zo", whichever it is):
quote:
Only Leona, Yagami and Rugal were able to get some power from Orochi.
Nope. Mature & Vice are using... say "modified" Orochi power (the skull pillars), and the 3 heavenly kings were also using it in '97. Me thinks the only hakkeshus or whatever not using Orochi powa are "non-Orochi" Leona 'n Yamazaki, who's only getting a little more psycho because of its influence.
quote:
Rugal blew himself up...(but returns,)
Only in noncanon dreammatches, mind you, although I guess you already knew. I hope canon-wise he's definitely gone, else SNKP would be really screwing things up.
Gen:
It's not true 94 & 2k1 being the only ones hinting the next game, on the contrary, they all did except for '97 which really could've been a closed end to the saga if they had wanted to, just watch its endings.
- 94 hints Rugal's comeback.
- 95 CLEARLY states there's a really bigger and more evil power behind Rugal's return and death, and Saisyu "tells" Kyo he's gonna fight it soon.
- In 96 there's Iori's ending to state Orochi's power is still there, there's the Sacred Forces Team ending to tell that the Orochi might appear sooner or later, etc, etc.
- In '99 there's "the voice" (fake Zero) who kills Krizalid after being defeated.
- In 2000 we knew the fact Clone Zero was a traitor and that (and Kula's & co appearance) hinted that the real NESTS would be behind 2001.
And this last one even already had a hinting to the Dragon Spirit story because when Kensou heals Bao it (that dragon spirit purple silhouette) appears behind them and Athena and Chin see it. It's logical to think they'll continue that, no?
Undead Fred:
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Wasn't K9999 the one to kill Foxy?
End of Spoiler
EDIT:
Naruto:
The difference between 95 beating and 96 beating is that in '95 Iori only decided to get rid of them the hard way, while in '96 he was being controlled by Orochi, not by his own will, and while he's in ROTB mode he's completely psycho and blood-thirsty. Ok?
Now a comment:
Since I got to know KOF's plot and structure (a while before 2k1 appeared) I knew (or better said, I would've been surprised if it hadn't been this way) 2k1 would end the NESTS saga and that 2k2 would be another dreammatch, they just keep a regular structure as Luisinan pointed.
Also, two plot questions von mir:
- Has Goenitz really lived so many freakin' years? I always thought he was just the last generation of the wind heavenly kings' lineage, as are all the other Hakkeshus and Yagami. But then I saw they say he's almost immortal in the HKcomics from KOFOnline, I didn't believe 'em, of course, but yesterday I saw that in some '96 endings they say he was "not only Kyo's but all the Kusanagis' enemy" or that "he not only knew Kyo but all the Kusanagis before". Then I go ¿¿o_O  ??. So, what is it?ç
- I just forgot the second while writing the first x_x, I'll edit when I recall. Or not.
Mwahahaha! I'm gonna murder someone...
How do you say "sushi" in Japanese? :D
Victoria Beckham (not confirmed)
[this message was edited by Sensenic on Sat 15 Nov 05:01] |
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| TheBeast 1606th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
    
| "Back to Naruto..." , posted Sat 15 Nov 07:15:
quote:
On the Dead one subject IMO none are dead.
As maybe people said Iroi smack down eveyone in his ending, the question is why Billy and Eiji will have survived, since Billy is in the 96 background and in the 97 who aren't a dream match, and Vice and Mature not???
As long as I didn't see a ruined bodyor a grave and somewhere it is writed white on black that those are dead I don't belive so.
for the Yashiro gang it's the same we saw them beaten but not dead, and the fact that Orochi is sealed doesn't me that chris is traped with him. so they are all alive IMO.
the disappearence thing in the 2000 doesn't show anything since Geese or billy doesn't have it if they're supposed to be dead.
The ONLY exception here is Goenitz, why? because he's saying himself in the Ikari team ending that is dieing...
So other tham him they're alive somewhere...
That's the problem with KOF stories. I am not sure if it is deliberate whatsoever, but they often gave foggy endings that can make stories go either way. Rugal seems pretty dead by the end of KOF94 anyway...I mean who can humanly possible survive a massive aircraft carrier explosion!?
Anyhow it is up to SNK to decide if there is a market value to bring back the characters that seems dead. They can twist the storylines if they like -"Mature and Vice are not dead! They are lying in blood back in KOF96 but they are not dead! They just spent all these years nursing their injuries!". Well, whatever.
By the way, is Takuma dead? He had a grave, was buried in one KOF2000's ending, but his hand emerged from the ground...Again, it is up to anyone's imagination, but no...he survived.
[this message was edited by TheBeast on Sat 15 Nov 07:20] |
| Luisinan 566th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(2):Back to Naruto..." , posted Sat 15 Nov 08:06
quote:
By the way, is Takuma dead? He had a grave, was buried in one KOF2000's ending, but his hand emerged from the ground...Again, it is up to anyone's imagination, but no...he survived.
'99.
Everyone knows that's just a joke ending. The AOF are always doing joke endings. Hell, Takuma was able to deflect the beam of energy fired from the NESTS orbiting cannon.
Anyway, back to the 'dead' issue. Face it fanboys. Mature and Vice are dead. New Face Team is dead. Goenitz is probably gone too. Geese is bye bye tambien. The only surviving Orochi are Yamazaki. And Leona and Iori.
In '95, you see Kisaragi and Billy with a few scratches in the team ending- Iori didn't kill them. In '96 Iori goes blood riot and you have these gruesome sillouttes of Iori tearing the two women apart, then you have them lying on the ground. Iori killed them. They are dead! dead dead dead. Vice and Mature returned in 98 and 02 because those were dream matches-- anyone could return in a dream match. And that's specifically why dream match games cannot have a storyline, except '94, because if you include a storyline, you can't include dead people.
and let me repeat:
dead dead dead!
Bored? "160"
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| TiamatRoar 551th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(3):Back to Naruto..." , posted Sat 15 Nov 09:10
On a side note, the fact that SNK can bring them back any time they want to still wouldn't change the fact that a character's officially dead. It just means that one can retroactively change things or backstep on official canon or whatever (nearly every game company with a long running storyline has done this by now, it seems). They're still officially dead as of now, though. I don't see any reason why SNK would want to bring them back for the storyline anyways when they can just keep bringing them back for dream matches, since storyline-wise, there doesn't seem to be much more they can do.
But then again, KOF has tons of characters that haven't done anything storyline-wise since it's existance, and also has brought back at least one character that I didn't think had any more point to returning (Krizalid). Still, Mature and Vice would be really really retro to retroactively bring back right now, I think...
http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/street_fighter_plot.txt
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| EternalNewbie
62th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(4):Back to Naruto..." , posted Sat 15 Nov 13:25
quote:
I still don't understand why everyone's dead set on this two year old "The next KOF will be about Bao and Kensou's Dragon Power" rumor when the Psycho Soldier endings for '99, '00, and '01 are all about Dragon Power. If it wasn't a big deal in '00 or '01, despite the fact that those endings always treated it as some huge new revelation, why would SNK suddenly care about it now?
I think because at the end of 2001, the last two remaining chief Nest executives are talking about it and show what appears to be a large interest in it. Where as in the other endings the Nests don't really seem to care and it is just treated as a weird Pyscho power thing. Of course, you could be right in the end and SNK does a quick switch and starts a new storyline completely. I just think that they will probably do the Dragon Power because after the Orochi saga, there was a solid ending feel to it, and then they started anew with Nests story. However, with that Dragon Power comment, they left it fairly open for that being the next saga, or at the very least a more solid end to the Nests saga if the two executives are after the Dragon Power.
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| iggy 2036th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
   
| "Mature and Vice are not dead! (maybe)" , posted Sat 15 Nov 15:55
Until 97, SNK said who won what.
94 is won by the Japan team, 95 is won by Iori (but Kyô fights against his father, I don't remember the details), 96 is won by the team of the 3 sacred thingies (Iori, Chizuru and Kyo, even though Chizuru is hidden), but the scene "Iori beating the crap out of M&V" does happen, before or after they kill Goenitz, I don't remember.
Then, 97 is won by the same 3 (so they fought Bôsô Leona).
Interesting detail : Vice, in 98 : "She and Mature return because it's a dreammatch. In the real storyline, wether they are dead or alive is still unclear".
So, so far, the only characters we know are dead (until they come back to life) are Goenitz, CYS, Foxy... Maybe Zero? Clone Zero? Ignitz? I'm not even sure of them. Geese is not dead in the KOF universe, since he's still alive in 97 and I think Mary was looking for him in 2000 or 99.
Oh, and Candy. At least, the original Candy.
I hope Gulgan is still alive.
立派すぎるのも、観念するのですよ。
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| Amakusa 361th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(5):Back to Naruto..." , posted Sat 15 Nov 16:09
quote:
As for the dead peoples, there is an other things, as someone all ready said, there is only one team winning the tournament each year, so that would be reall y boring if each year it was always Iori's team who won.
I don't know how long you've been playing fighting games, but what I've observed, particularly with the KOF series, a number of endings happen even though only one team can beat the boss.
Look at the Psycho Soldier team. Their endings follow a linear progression in almost every KOF and they decidedly NEVER win a tournament.
Look at Kim's team's endings. Even that follows a somewhat progression despite the fact they're overall very goofy.
As my third example, refer to the Ikari Warriors team's endings. Heck, Whip leaves the team and her story goes through both with her new team and her former team.
I found Kagami's sword in a junk yard.
I will rule the world and find that truly good cup of coffee.
"Dink-a-dink-a-dink-a-do."
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| Undead Fred 1070th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(3):Back to Naruto..." , posted Sat 15 Nov 16:15
quote:
Anyway, back to the 'dead' issue. Face it fanboys. Mature and Vice are dead. New Face Team is dead. Goenitz is probably gone too. Geese is bye bye tambien. The only surviving Orochi are Yamazaki. And Leona and Iori.
In '95, you see Kisaragi and Billy with a few scratches in the team ending- Iori didn't kill them. In '96 Iori goes blood riot and you have these gruesome sillouttes of Iori tearing the two women apart, then you have them lying on the ground. Iori killed them. They are dead! dead dead dead. Vice and Mature returned in 98 and 02 because those were dream matches-- anyone could return in a dream match. And that's specifically why dream match games cannot have a storyline, except '94, because if you include a storyline, you can't include dead people.
and let me repeat:
dead dead dead!
Well, again, given the way it was drawn, the slashes aren't necessarily literal, but they can be taken as a suggestion of what's happening or just action lines. I mean, doesn't Iori have the "crazy lit-up face" in some of those shots? Eh, it hasn't convinced me they've actually been ripped to pieces. And then there's the whole "which ending really happened" issue... I mean, Charlie dies in every damned SFAlpha game...
THAT'S DANNY. His hometown is New Orleans.
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| Gen 2209th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):About KOF (Billy 'n Yama, part 2)" , posted Sat 15 Nov 21:33:
quote:
Only Leona, Yagami and Rugal were able to get some power from Orochi.
Nope. Mature & Vice are using... say "modified" Orochi power (the skull pillars), and the 3 heavenly kings were also using it in '97. Me thinks the only hakkeshus or whatever not using Orochi powa are "non-Orochi" Leona 'n Yamazaki, who's only getting a little more psycho because of its influence.
I mean non-Orochi people who get to use the power. Mature, Vice, Ryuji, (Guidel,) Goenitz, Yashiro, Shermie, Chris are all Orochi. Leona and Iori are like 1/2 Orochis, Rugal is an outsider but he syphens power.
quote:
Gen:
It's not true 94 & 2k1 being the only ones hinting the next game,
I think someone else might have said that. I was suggesting only that only one of the team endings has to have happened in the continuity of each next game, meaning only one team actually wins, but other portions of other teams endings could occur anyway save for them being the tourney winners.
quote:
on the contrary, they all did except for '97 which really could've been a closed end to the saga if they had wanted to, just watch its endings.
- 94 hints Rugal's comeback.
- 95 CLEARLY states there's a really bigger and more evil power behind Rugal's return and death, and Saisyu "tells" Kyo he's gonna fight it soon.
- In 96 there's Iori's ending to state Orochi's power is still there, there's the Sacred Forces Team ending to tell that the Orochi might appear sooner or later, etc, etc.
- In '99 there's "the voice" (fake Zero) who kills Krizalid after being defeated.
- In 2000 we knew the fact Clone Zero was a traitor and that (and Kula's & co appearance) hinted that the real NESTS would be behind 2001.
And this last one even already had a hinting to the Dragon Spirit story because when Kensou heals Bao it (that dragon spirit purple silhouette) appears behind them and Athena and Chin see it. It's logical to think they'll continue that, no?
I'd like to see pay off on Bao/Kensou whoever's Dragon Spirit at some point in the future. Just that the main Nests story had little text story follow up that I can think of to the Orochi story. (The exceptions would be like Iori still being after Kyo but that seems it will go on and on reguardless.)
The strong connection was that they said they took Kyo's DNA after the Orochi battle, that was about it. Sort of a bridge between the two story lines.
SNK has said before that the Orochi story was finished, and they said that the Nests story was finished too and this would be a new chapter. If the Dragon power is the central theme and Misty and Ron the bosses then it would seem like too much of a sequal, (like Nests part 4,) relative to SNK's statements.
It would be kind of like if KoF 99-2001 were about siphening Orochi's power, and Rugal and Geese were in the game as Nests bosses. (Though perhaps they are pulling strings far behind the sceens, just they don't show in the games.)
Who knows what SNK will do though. They might have Ron be the secret end boss after the "Japanese sponsor boss" who secretly masterminded the tourney just to bring out the Dragon. I'm not set against such a story line, just it seems like SNK would be not following what they said they were going to do for this chapter if they did this. Though sertainly I'd like them to revisit those story threads at some time in the future.
Goenitz: I'm sure he has a birth day from the 1900s. Perhaps they are talking about his spirit or something.
NARUTOquote:
As a Final thing the HK comics is bullshit to me storyline wise...Only the true official KOF game scenario count IMO.
Yes. In the past I've seen people try to construct the KoF story line using HK comics, Japanese comics, fan fictions, and some games, and maybe a KOF mook or two as the sources. I value the games and statements that come from SNK, which would include mooks, as story sources. I think I read that KoF Kyo was based on a Japanese comic, but they changed things from the comic in the game.
The HK comics aren't the same as the in-games story, but they can be fun alternate fictions in the KOF setting.
quote:
As for the dead peoples, there is an other things, as someone all ready said, there is only one team winning the tournament each year,
that's me (: quote:
so that would be reall y boring if each year it was always Iori's team who won.
So IMO they are alive...
Nothing shows that Iori is the "all time winner" so that mean that some of them have survived.
The beast: as for rugal sunken ship, you can always imagine about the "final hidden door that leads you to the safety submarine..."
In video game, and in fighting game it's so easy to make something possible.
Luisian:
alive alive alive!! ^^ LOL!
iggyquote:
Until 97, SNK said who won what.
94 is won by the Japan team, 95 is won by Iori (but Kyô fights against his father, I don't remember the details), 96 is won by the team of the 3 sacred thingies (Iori, Chizuru and Kyo, even though Chizuru is hidden), but the scene "Iori beating the crap out of M&V" does happen, before or after they kill Goenitz, I don't remember.
Then, 97 is won by the same 3 (so they fought Bôsô Leona).
I've heard similar stuff that SNK has stated the winner of some of the tournies before. Do you know where they stated it?
quote:
Interesting detail : Vice, in 98 : "She and Mature return because it's a dreammatch. In the real storyline, wether they are dead or alive is still unclear".
So, so far, the only characters we know are dead (until they come back to life) are Goenitz, CYS, Foxy... Maybe Zero? Clone Zero? Ignitz? I'm not even sure of them. Geese is not dead in the KOF universe, since he's still alive in 97 and I think Mary was looking for him in 2000 or 99. Oh, and Candy. At least, the original Candy. I hope Gulgan is still alive.
I think Goenitz being "called to heaven" means he is dead. Is there any ending in which he doesn't say he is called to heaven?
I think Yashiro and Shermie are alive but Chris is dead. Orochi is just sealed.
Foxy get's screwed but she could live.
K9999 sertainly screws other people durring matches and they don't die right.
Ron survives the sinking rocket blimp, atleast in PS ending, so why not Zero and Krizalid and Glugan.
I hope most of the clones die. Don't know.
Mary was looking for Geese in 99/2000?
Candy gets melted apparently when shielding Kula's atmosphere reentery. Wasn't there a way to play the game though so this didn't happen? If it happens then yeah the next candy would likely be another build.
Amakusa
quote:
I don't know how long you've been playing fighting games, but what I've observed, particularly with the KOF series, a number of endings happen even though only one team can beat the boss.
Look at the Psycho Soldier team. Their endings follow a linear progression in almost every KOF and they decidedly NEVER win a tournament.
Look at Kim's team's endings. Even that follows a somewhat progression despite the fact they're overall very goofy.
As my third example, refer to the Ikari Warriors team's endings. Heck, Whip leaves the team and her story goes through both with her new team and her former team.
Several of the team's stories assume that the team you picked won the previous game. Like say when no matter which team you pick it says 'so you're the one who defeated Rugal'. With a play of a game, when you pick a team you may be picking from several continuities.
In the long run only one team should actually have won the tourney and beaten the boss, as the tourney should only occur once and the other teams get eleminated. An HK comic might have all the characters gang up on the final boss, but when playing the game you only have one team go against the boss...(unless continuing is part of the story too...)
I generally agree. Some of the other endings may occur anyway save for the parts that are dependant on a team winning. But it can't be that every ending happens. If Yagami team wins KoF 96, then Chizuru team doesn't, though events from some the other endings may occur anyway.... But for sertain only one happens fully with that team being winners.
Undead Fredquote:
Well, again, given the way it was drawn, the slashes aren't necessarily literal, but they can be taken as a suggestion of what's happening or just action lines. I mean, doesn't Iori have the "crazy lit-up face" in some of those shots? Eh, it hasn't convinced me they've actually been ripped to pieces.
Iori looks to have lit up eyes. There's a hole in Mature and Vice's siloettes, but there are more holes in Iori's arms in those same shots. Then when we see the color picture, theres no visible gaping area of holes missing from the flesh. quote:
And then there's the whole "which ending really happened" issue... I mean, Charlie dies in every damned SFAlpha game...
Thats a big reason why I like KoF better, those go nowhere Alpha stories. According to I think Tiamat one of those Alphas, I think #2, was supposed to replace the previous one, but calling it "Alpha 2" doesn't help in that case.
Burning Kyoquote:
- Billy & Eiji : They're just sit 'n severely injured.
Why does Billy say "you're Geese"??????
quote:
- Vice & Mature : They got ripped by Iori 'n they're lying on the floor ... but they're still chatting (^_^').
yess
quote:
- CYS : DEAD
I don't buy it. CYS enter and fight 1 to 2 sets of clones of themselves, defeat Orochi, and Yashiro sacrafices his team.... Chizuru/Iori/Kyo have to win this one.
quote:
- GEESE : He's still here in the Special team '97 ending
- Foxy : Weird, she supposed to be killed by K9999, but she says something when they're all escape from the spaceship
Foxy doesn't still get screwed on the ground when you play with Nests team though right?
:angel:alive alive alive:angel:
[this message was edited by Gen on Sat 15 Nov 22:35] |
| Krzyzewski Man
137th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(4):About KOF (Billy 'n Yama, part 2)" , posted Sun 16 Nov 12:15
quote:
Chris, Yashiro, and Shermie have the dissappearing dead animation when they're strikers, too, don't they?
This animation doesn't shows anything since character like Eiji didn't have it, and he's supposed to be dead too...
Not necessarily... remember, Billy lived, so Eiji probably did too, he just left KOF.
Eiji also shows up in some backgrounds, but those might just be Easter eggs.
Aren't erogenous zones neato?
CMFPIWSFAOMFG!!!!
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| Gen 2212th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):About KOF (Billy 'n Yama, part 2)" , posted Sun 16 Nov 14:10
quote:
I think Goenitz being "called to heaven" means he is dead. Is there any ending in which he doesn't say he is called to heaven?
the Kyo-Iori-Chizuru ending!
he seems quite dead in that one, and I assume that's pretty official.
As I said in the Ikari ending he's telling that he's dieing too...
Gen: Still for the Outlaw team I think of a brand new one, even if it comes from a game like FF WA, I dodn't see why the'll have hide him.
Tizoc was a Big surprise too, he comes from a game we didn't expect and they didn't hide him, so I think that only a new character could be here.
Still I could be wrong...
It would seem a new guy is likely as it's hard to fit someone with those two and they were already 2/3 of the 97 "special" team. They could have a surprise waiting from a previous game. Though new characters tend to have a team to their self usually.
TiamatRoarquote:
Chris, Yashiro, and Shermie have the dissappearing dead animation when they're strikers, too, don't they?
I believe that's correct that they blink out which vaguely indicates that they're dead. But they can always say they're not dead... That game had unborn stikers form the future too... And Dong Hwan and Jae Hoon looking the same age as in MOTW.
Hmm need a list of the blink out characters.
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| TiamatRoar 553th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(5):About KOF (Billy 'n Yama, part 2)" , posted Sun 16 Nov 14:28
quote:
TiamatRoarChris, Yashiro, and Shermie have the dissappearing dead animation when they're strikers, too, don't they? I believe that's correct that they blink out which vaguely indicates that they're dead. But they can always say they're not dead... That game had unborn stikers form the future too... And Dong Hwan and Jae Hoon looking the same age as in MOTW.
Yea, I'm just wondering if they're officially dead as of now. Even if they are officially dead, Playmore could always retroactively change it (not like they or any other company haven't done that, before).
I never heard anything remotely official about Eiji being dead, though, so it's no surprise to me that he doesn't have the animation.
http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/street_fighter_plot.txt
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"Re(7):Back to Naruto..." 
Everybody is died ! 
