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| OmegaDog 811th Post
 
Red Carpet Regular Member+
   
    
    
|  "Disney film quality and political correctness"
, posted Fri 24 Oct 23:41
Heh heh -- yeah, I mentioned the Disney "2D is dead" fiasco on this board a while back, though I can't seem to find the thread now; I think it already disappeared.
I'd agree that Disney churns out a lot of stuff that's unenjoyable to our discriminating market (Tarzan made me shudder, and it was because of the cute talking animals), but I've enjoyed at least some of what Disney's done lately, and at least have faith that they might actually do something decent in 3D. For instance, The Emperor's New Groove made me laugh quite a bit. I also enjoyed Lilo and Stitch quite a bit -- never you mind that it's a milking franchise.
And, I didn't see the final version of Atlantis, which I've heard less than stellar reviews about -- but when I got to go to a preview screening of it (incomplete, and a lot of the scenes were still storyboard drawings) -- well, I liked it, even if it sort-of randomly threw in diverse characters to seem politically correct.
Speaking of political correctness on a tangent -- word has it that, of all things, Disney is actually going to remake Mary Poppins...
... starring Queen Latifah.
(Because of the Mary Poppins news and the reminder of Tarzan -- I need a dose of Happy Tree Friends. BADLY.)
"I'll punish you with my burning fist of justice!!" | CCT: NEXT STAGE IS 14 |
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| Gen 2083th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
| "Re(1):Disney film quality and political corre" , posted Sat 25 Oct 01:31
quote:
Heh heh -- yeah, I mentioned the Disney "2D is dead" fiasco on this board a while back, though I can't seem to find the thread now; I think it already disappeared.
I'd agree that Disney churns out a lot of stuff that's unenjoyable to our discriminating market (Tarzan made me shudder, and it was because of the cute talking animals), but I've enjoyed at least some of what Disney's done lately, and at least have faith that they might actually do something decent in 3D. For instance, The Emperor's New Groove made me laugh quite a bit. I also enjoyed Lilo and Stitch quite a bit -- never you mind that it's a milking franchise.
And, I didn't see the final version of Atlantis, which I've heard less than stellar reviews about -- but when I got to go to a preview screening of it (incomplete, and a lot of the scenes were still storyboard drawings) -- well, I liked it, even if it sort-of randomly threw in diverse characters to seem politically correct.
Speaking of political correctness on a tangent -- word has it that, of all things, Disney is actually going to remake Mary Poppins...
... starring Queen Latifah.
(Because of the Mary Poppins news and the reminder of Tarzan -- I need a dose of Happy Tree Friends. BADLY.)
Disney is one of the most politically correct corrupt entities. I believe this especially after having known an administrative employee and hearing some more of the company's practices and the stuff he wanted to do.
If Queen Latifa is the best choice actress for Marry Poppins that's the reason to put her in the movie.
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| DarkZero 407th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(3):Disney film quality and political corre" , posted Sat 25 Oct 08:42
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They decided to quit 2D animation when they realised that their fans were starting to get pulled away into japanese animation, and the once low competition 2D animation arena is going to be extremely saturated when the japanese animation scene in the US goes full steam. On the other hand, 3D animation production doesn't have a lot of competition as of yet.
I made that all up from pure speculation.
edit: not to be taken/or argued seriously
Actually, this might not be very far off the mark. Disney clearly understands the anime market both in the United States and Japan, because their very careful marketing of Hayao Miyazaki's movies so far has been effective without ever risking a disaster. They have to be aware of the fact that their recent movies are nowhere near as beautiful as some of the stuff that was coming out of Japan about a decade ago and 2D could be a big risk for them because of it. If Disney releases another 2D film and then someone comes out with a wide release kids' anime movie a few months after it, every review of the movie will say the same thing: "Why couldn't Disney do this three months ago when they released {whatever film}?" And if they were continuing down the 2D route, then they would already have three or four animated movies in production at that point, and they would all become wasted investments because no one would want to see more of Disney's recent combination of horrible storytelling and subpar animation once they have something better to compare it to.
I think the larger consideration, though, is that they haven't released a quality movie that wasn't made by Pixar since Toy Story came out. Disney's movies have lost the mass market appeal that the Lion King or Aladdin had, when adults not only tolerated them, but there were actually kids that liked them as well. If their 2D animation department can't churn out anything better than Brother Bear, Atlantis, or Treasure Planet, then they may as well throw in the towel. Lilo & Stitch was probably the best thing that they've put out recently, but Finding Nemo was still way better.
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| izek
93th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(3):Disney film quality and political corre" , posted Sat 25 Oct 11:48
quote:
They decided to quit 2D animation when they realised that their fans were starting to get pulled away into japanese animation, and the once low competition 2D animation arena is going to be extremely saturated when the japanese animation scene in the US goes full steam. On the other hand, 3D animation production doesn't have a lot of competition as of yet.
I made that all up from pure speculation.
edit: not to be taken/or argued seriously
Not at all, although one could think that was the case.
The main reason is that almost all of their recent 2D feautres were losses and the major nail in the coffin was Trasure Planet. The reason being it cose over $140 million and brought in only about $38 million in the box office.
David Stainton, the new chief of animation, made the decision and he and Michael Eisner (CEO) even forced Glen Keane to head a 3D project. In a way they want to challenge Pixar and want to show them that this kind of entertainment is their turf. This has nothing to do with anime.
About the Hayao movies, Disney is the one bringing them over here so I don't think they are that jealous since they are making money off of them as well.
To put it simply, if you look back into recent history, 2D has been a failure (Sinbad, Spirit, Atlantis, Treasure Planet) and the 3D stuff a phenomenal success (Finding Nemo which is also now the most highest grossing animated film in animation history, Shrek, Ice Age). This is their understaning, they don't care that their stories sucked.
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| Luisinan 520th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(7):Disney film quality and political corre" , posted Sat 25 Oct 12:06
quote:
Queen Latifah as Mary Poppins? And I had just gotten done reading that Cedric the Entertainer might play Jackie Gleason in a Honeymooners movie and Mike Epps as Ralph @_@
Along with Will Smith as James West and Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin, this is all getting very silly. I am not prejudice or anything, but I hate when they screw around with characters, how would people feel if Nicolas Cage actually played Luke Cage in a big screen adaptation of the comic when the original character was known for being the first black superhero to carry his own book?
This is off topic and has already been discussed, but I must reply. The difference with your Cage example is that being black is important to Cage's character. His 'blackness' partially defines him. With Kingpin, or Mary Poppins- their 'whiteness' has little or nothing to do with their character.
If MIchael Clark Duncan played Kingpin as a stereotypical 'black' character, then I think that would be wrong. But he didn't. As for Mary Poppins, I see this more of a 'remix' of Mary Poppins. I mean, what's the point of making a 're-make' if it's gonna be exactly the same as the original? There's no point.
I think it just has to do with the circumstances and what they are actually trying to accomplish with the character. Michael Clark Duncan played an exceptionally good Kingpin, he just happened to be black while doing so. He didn't make Kingpin 'black.' I really like MCD, and can't actually think of a better actor for the Kingpin part.
Bored? "160"
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| DarkZero 410th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(4):Disney film quality and political corre" , posted Sat 25 Oct 13:54
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About the Hayao movies, Disney is the one bringing them over here so I don't think they are that jealous since they are making money off of them as well.
Errr... what? If you're responding to me, then I think you read wrong. Here's what I said:
"Disney clearly understands the anime market both in the United States and Japan, because their very careful marketing of Hayao Miyazaki's movies so far has been effective without ever risking a disaster."
And I don't know where you got the whole "jealousy" thing from. I haven't seen anyone write anything like that in this thread.
To put it simply, if you look back into recent history, 2D has been a failure (Sinbad, Spirit, Atlantis, Treasure Planet) and the 3D stuff a phenomenal success (Finding Nemo which is also now the most highest grossing animated film in animation history, Shrek, Ice Age). This is their understaning, they don't care that their stories sucked.
We had already established that their 2D movies had failed. I was merely stating why and pointing out that with anime's rise in popularity in the United States, the prospects for Disney's 2D animation department could only get worse from here if they chose to continue it. If Disney continued making 2D movies, then they would begin facing far greater challenges in the market just as they were finally getting everything together, so it's best that they just cut their losses now and move all the way over to 3D, which seems to be a pretty sure bet for them.
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| Ishmael 991th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(5):Disney film quality and political corre" , posted Sat 25 Oct 14:26
quote:
To put it simply, if you look back into recent history, 2D has been a failure (Sinbad, Spirit, Atlantis, Treasure Planet) and the 3D stuff a phenomenal success (Finding Nemo which is also now the most highest grossing animated film in animation history, Shrek, Ice Age). This is their understaning, they don't care that their stories sucked.
We had already established that their 2D movies had failed. I was merely stating why and pointing out that with anime's rise in popularity in the United States, the prospects for Disney's 2D animation department could only get worse from here if they chose to continue it. If Disney continued making 2D movies, then they would begin facing far greater challenges in the market just as they were finally getting everything together, so it's best that they just cut their losses now and move all the way over to 3D, which seems to be a pretty sure bet for them.
How would dropping 2D and moving to 3D possibly be good? Disney will still be set up the same way, will still second-guess it's talent, will still not have any central driving force and will only switch from doing bad 2D movies to doing bad 3D movies. I'm not going to make guesses on what Disney could do to get it's collective head out of it's collective ass but I seriously doubt anything is going to change with the current power structure.
The whole thing infuriates me since over the years Disney has had very talented people make some great stuff for them but nowadays it seems like nobody with any artistic vision is running the show. Glen Keane forced into doing 3D work... that's just sad.
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| Undead Fred 1011th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(6):Disney film quality and political corre" , posted Sun 26 Oct 17:23
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Eisner should hope the ghost of Walt doesn't materialize to drag him down to the lowest pits of hell.
I imagine that scene playing out like when Lisa grabbed Dr. Kaufman in one of the endings of Silent Hill 1...
quote:
Why don't they return to their roots? And make classic Disney character movies like say a movie about Daffy duck or Goofy in a new adventure. I know it's more rehash...but perhaps watching old Disney stuff will inspire them or something. Afterall, Disney is about kids. And all kids love the Mickey mouse...or at least I did back then. They need to make more original charming characters too.
Well, they could, but then they'd just be Warner Bros. They're making new stuff with crappy versions of their classic characters (Bugs Bunny rules at basketball! and he says "You GO, girl!"). I have a feeling Disney would just do the same sort of crap to their classic characters if they had their own movie. They DO have their own shows, though... Goofy has Goof Troop (which was a name I've always HATED), Donald had his own show recently, and I think Mickey had one, too. I agree with the other posts though- Disney needs to realize people don't watch their movies because their stories and writing are terrible, not because it's in 2D.
THAT'S DANNY. His hometown is New Orleans.
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| Krzyzewski Man
41th Post
Rare Customer
| "Ideas" , posted Mon 27 Oct 19:21
Well, since we all seem to want Disney to come out with a new movie, I'll throw some ideas out there.
Idea #1: A medieval-style movie. I've had a specific story in my head for a while now, but any kind of epic would be good, preferably without any Jar Jar sidekicks or love interests (at least none that are a huge part of the plot). The kind of movie I was thinking of is this, simplified for your convenience.
A kingdom has been ruled for untold ages by two kings, one of each of the two major groups. Both tribes are sort of Celtic, one being classic Braveheart-style warriors, the other being more of a druidic, alien tribe with a somewhat Nietzchean bent. In the beginning of the movie, the king from the latter tribe kills the other king, usurping his power (including his mystical power), while their respective sons observe. The former son runs off to form an army and right the wrongs that have been committed, while the latter son stays with his father and ponders his role in the coming conflict, among other things. It'd be a very complex story, and I originally conceived it as a trilogy or at least duology. Of course, with the financial woes of the animation studio, that might not be possible.
Anyway, that was my idea. I'd welcome any other medieval-style cartoon, as long as it was well made.
Idea #2: A modern version of Fantasia. This would have just about everything in it. In all honesty, Fantasia is quite possibly the finest work of art ever produced by Disney. There are definitely minds out there that have the capability to create something like this, it would just take a bit of looking.
I'd post more ideas, but at the moment I'm a bit blank. I'll probably be back tomorrow with a little more input.
If God didn't want no cannibalism then
he wouldn'ta made no folks outta meat.
Disclaimer: Not actually named Krzyzewski. Also not cannibal.
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| izek
94th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(1):Ideas" , posted Mon 27 Oct 19:33
quote:
Well, since we all seem to want Disney to come out with a new movie, I'll throw some ideas out there.
Idea #1: A medieval-style movie. I've had a specific story in my head for a while now, but any kind of epic would be good, preferably without any Jar Jar sidekicks or love interests (at least none that are a huge part of the plot). The kind of movie I was thinking of is this, simplified for your convenience.
A kingdom has been ruled for untold ages by two kings, one of each of the two major groups. Both tribes are sort of Celtic, one being classic Braveheart-style warriors, the other being more of a druidic, alien tribe with a somewhat Nietzchean bent. In the beginning of the movie, the king from the latter tribe kills the other king, usurping his power (including his mystical power), while their respective sons observe. The former son runs off to form an army and right the wrongs that have been committed, while the latter son stays with his father and ponders his role in the coming conflict, among other things. It'd be a very complex story, and I originally conceived it as a trilogy or at least duology. Of course, with the financial woes of the animation studio, that might not be possible.
Anyway, that was my idea. I'd welcome any other medieval-style cartoon, as long as it was well made.
But people.. die.. in that story.
REMINDER: Brother Bear opens on November 1st, go watch it and support high budget animation.
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| Gen 2122th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):OT: Disney to abandon 2-D?" , posted Fri 31 Oct 22:38
quote:
OK,you animation fans may have known about this,but I just found out tonight.
Mentioned here
Kind of sad. But the article said they're going out with style.
They got a hit out of Lilo and Stitch. So that was cool. I've tended to stay away from a lot of Disney stuff lately. But the movie mentioned,Brother Bear,is something I'm curious to see.
Ever since seeing those Canadian moose in that skit before Kill Bill started,I've wanted to see this.
I wouldn't be surprised if I had a brief all-things-Canadian obsession after this. LOL.
Na,heh. I know some of you are Disney haters. But too each his own.
http://www.mouseplanet.com/david/dk030814.htm
This article kind of made me feel sad and sick. I think it's important to remember that even though Disney is turning their back on their company's foundations, that their movies for the last several years have been sub par. Also consider that their movies for the last several years have been like half two-dimentional and half 3-dimentional. So Disney's 1/2 2D 1/2 3D movies have been performing subpar, just like their stories and themes have been subpar. I mainly feel sorry that all those 2D employees are loosing their jobs, and for animation in general, which unfortunately the Disney corporation seems to have too much control over. I think the animators have talent just they can't do something very good with it when they're operating under the claws of the dark rat.
I really like Mickey and old Disney. But to me, in the late 90s and on to today the Disney corporation seemed to have begun to visibly fester.
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| Undead Fred 1034th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
| "Re(2):OT: Disney to abandon 2-D?" , posted Sat 1 Nov 15:03
quote:
This article kind of made me feel sad and sick. I think it's important to remember that even though Disney is turning their back on their company's foundations, that their movies for the last several years have been sub par. Also consider that their movies for the last several years have been like half two-dimentional and half 3-dimentional. So Disney's 1/2 2D 1/2 3D movies have been performing subpar, just like their stories and themes have been subpar. I mainly feel sorry that all those 2D employees are loosing their jobs, and for animation in general, which unfortunately the Disney corporation seems to have too much control over. I think the animators have talent just they can't do something very good with it when they're operating under the claws of the dark rat.
I really like Mickey and old Disney. But to me, in the late 90s and on to today the Disney corporation seemed to have begun to visibly fester.
Yeah, exactly. It's Disney's own fault people aren't watching their movies. It's not the fact that it's 2D. Personally, I think the Lion King was pretty much the last decent Disney movie. Pixar's stuff is good (even though the writing is still Disney-fied), but I sort of consider those separate from the rest of the Disney movies (although they're still Disney movies). Oh yeah, didn't Finding Nemo not do very well in the theater?? I thought I heard something along those lines..... If so, then that should tell Disney something...
Anyway, as we've all said, it's sad that Disney's dropping 2D. I think the only idea about animation I hate more than "animation is for kids" is the "2D is inferior to 3D" idea. Blech.
THAT'S DANNY. His hometown is New Orleans.
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"OT: Disney to abandon 2-D?" 
"Re(2):Disney film quality and political corre" 
"Armagetron" 
Brother Bear opens on November 1st, go watch it and support high budget animation. 
Ebert and Roeper gave it two thumbs up. So,I guess that's good enough for me. 
