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| CrazyMike 715th Post
 
Red Carpet Regular Member
  
    
    
|  "Re(3):Psychology 101"
, posted Fri 24 Oct 12:42
Playing the devils advocate here, I am not going to demonize any one side, but I think it can be safely said that there will always be atrocities committed on both sides, but at the same time, it is the number and the extreme one side will go to that can determine whether they are *really* following orders or not.
I just do not think soldiers would resort to cannabilizing their enemies, chopping their heads off, or doing all kinds of sick, mutilation just because a superior told them too. Likewise, a massive war like World War II would have not gone on so for long without the consent of the soldiers or the people back at home.
Look at the Iraq war, as much as half of the population is divided about it, and yet it was actually a pretty tiny war and short war, yet Germany's war in Europe went on for 7 long years, while Japan's went on since 1937, and these were wars practically against an entire continent yet the soldiers continued to fight on, after inflicting the highest body count in the history of warfare and the highest number of atrocities.
Of course let me add that the German and Japanese are good people and the current generation cannot be held responsible. And while I will not say all Germans believed in Hitler, the number of atrocities committed is just too staggering to believe that all of them were committed by people who were just doing what they were told to do, especially in desolate conditions like the Eastern Front where orders from above were pretty general and everything happening on ground is pretty much up to you.
Whether it is a small squad of American troops slaughtering a Vietmanese village or German soldiers crucifying a Canadian soldier in World War I, they are pretty much acting on their own and not on orders from superiors.
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| RugalBernstein 4671th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
     
  
| "Re(2):Psychology 101" , posted Fri 24 Oct 20:42:
Darkzero, all Japanese men were required to serve in the military in those days for a period... not sure if that's really relevant, especially considering it was a common practice in those days; Crazymike, if everyone in Germany or Japan supported the war effort, why would either country have needed secret police (and why would the Japanese government have a need to provide propaganda to the Japanese public claiming they were "driving the western dogs out of Asia, were liberating the wayward Chinese brothers (often using opium dens as an example of how they were "corrupted" by the British", and spout claims of how they were going to create the "Greater East-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere"? However, more importantly, why the hell is this happening in a thread that was just supposed to be "heartwarming"? Damn, as far as I was able to tell, this was supposed to be about how much two old enemies' relationship has changed over the years, and instead, it turns in to a fucking political roundtable about wartime atrocities. How many people here have themselves been directly affected by anything that happened in WW 2? Anybody? Jesus, you'd think nothing else bad has happened in all of human history.
Edit: Hey, why don't we bring up the Soviet pre and post-war atrocities, or Pol-Pot's (who never would have come to power if it weren't for America pushing Sihanouk out of power for their own ends in Vietnam) mass slayings of his own people! Yeah, those sound like great things to talk about in a video game board!
Best site EVER: Link Here
[this message was edited by RugalBernstein on Fri 24 Oct 20:59] |
| whitesword 1437th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(3):Psychology 101" , posted Fri 24 Oct 21:00
quote:
Darkzero, all Japanese men were required to serve in the military in those days for a period... not sure if that's really relevant, especially considering it was a common practice in those days; Crazymike, if everyone in Germany or Japan supported the war effort, why would either country have needed secret police (and why would the Japanese government have a need to provide propaganda to the Japanese public claiming they were "driving the western dogs out of Asia, were liberating the wayward Chinese brothers (often using opium dens as an example of how they were "corrupted" by the British", and spout claims of how they were going to create the "Greater East-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere"? However, more importantly, why the hell is this happening in a thread that was just supposed to be "heartwarming"? Damn, as far as I was able to tell, this was supposed to be about how much two old enemies' relationship has changed over the years, and instead, it turns in to a fucking political roundtable about wartime atrocities. How many people here have themselves been directly affected by anything that happened in WW 2? Anybody? Jesus, you'd think nothing else bad has happened in all of human history.
Edit: Hey, why don't we bring up the Soviet pre and post-war atrocities, or Pol-Pot's (who never would have come to power if it weren't for America pushing Sihanouk out of power for their own ends in Vietnam) mass slayings of his own people! Yeah, those sound like great things to talk about in a video game board!
To sum things up, it's all the Yellow Rat From Hell's fault.
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| Fygee 866th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(3):OT Marine returns Japanese flag 60years" , posted Fri 24 Oct 21:06
quote:
This sounds rather ignorant to me.
Do you actually think that a lot of the people who fought the war had the "let's take over the world" or "lets save the world of the bad guys" mentailty. A lot of them were there against their own will; and just wanted to survive.
There is no such thing as "good guys" and "bad guys" in something like War. Every country did some atrocity of their own. It is known that some American soldiers boiled Japanese soldier's heads to use the skulls as trophies.
I'm looking at it from a symbolic perspective, which is really what this is all about. This guy fought in this war and we didn't, so its hard to get a true perspective on it, but there was some really fierce fighting and hatred between us back then (obviously :p).
If I was this guy and I was fighting heavily against an enemy country that was allied with Germany (most wars have a black and white look as far as good and bad guys go, but there's no argument that Germany and Hitler were truly evil), and captured that flag, I don't think I'd ever give it back. To me it would be a symbol of victory over an enemy country that threatened the entire world, and in modern times, a symbol of a very different Japan compared to today.
Basically, it would be like giving a giant Nazi flag back to the relatives of a former Nazi soldier. It just wouldn't feel right.
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the universe and human stupidity
"Psychology 101" 
"Re(2):Psychology 101" 
"Re(4):Psychology 101" 
