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ZamIAm

1083th Post

Red Carpet Premium Member

"KOF grabs" , posted Thu 23 Oct 17:43

What are the oddities behind these? I've heard that the range extends slightly if the opponent is attackking you and I've obviously seen that they can be comboed but what else?

M:Bah dah dah dah daahh... I'm hatin' it.

Replies:

Toxico

3233th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(1):KOF grabs" , posted Thu 23 Oct 21:25

quote:
What are the oddities behind these? I've heard that the range extends slightly if the opponent is attackking you and I've obviously seen that they can be comboed but what else?

'Sadly', this is my area of exepertise.
The issue is this; In kof the "hit box" of your character is actually pretty small and all most everything you do affects the position of said box...

For example Goro Daimon's DP + Kick throw as a lot of range if the enemy is standing; but if the enemy crouches the "hit box" of the character will move to another position and thus the thrown won't have the same range.

Following the same example if the enemy uses an attack the "hit box" will most likely move foward thus making it more easy for you to throw them in. In the opposite case if you manage to pass behind your enemy and attempt to throw them while they are attacking the throw will most likely miss.

Also, some moves that makes your character invincible to attacks won't make him invincible to throws and vise-versa; so you are mos't likely to heard some times "nO waY, he ThroWed My inVinCiBle Dm!!"

.... Well, I know I'm "sturdy" when explaining things, so I advise to you to read the text several times before punching me due to my incoherence... ¬_¬ In fact I have way too many gripps with the KoF "engine" most likely because it hasn't been changed since 97'

NARUTO

1848th Post

Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive

"Re(2):KOF grabs" , posted Fri 24 Oct 00:55

quote:
'Sadly', this is my area of exepertise.
The issue is this; In kof the "hit box" of your character is actually pretty small and all most everything you do affects the position of said box...

For example Goro Daimon's DP + Kick throw as a lot of range if the enemy is standing; but if the enemy crouches the "hit box" of the character will move to another position and thus the thrown won't have the same range.

Following the same example if the enemy uses an attack the "hit box" will most likely move foward thus making it more easy for you to throw them in. In the opposite case if you manage to pass behind your enemy and attempt to throw them while they are attacking the throw will most likely miss.

Also, some moves that makes your character invincible to attacks won't make him invincible to throws and vise-versa; so you are mos't likely to heard some times "nO waY, he ThroWed My inVinCiBle Dm!!"

.... Well, I know I'm "sturdy" when explaining things, so I advise to you to read the text several times before punching me due to my incoherence... ¬_¬ In fact I have way too many gripps with the KoF "engine" most likely because it hasn't been changed since 97'

interesting subject here...
Does the normal throw moves (Forward+ punch/kick) are influenced by this "hit box" too??
I mean all of us have already face the: "wait! I'm the one who try to throw you first!!!" situation...
And finaly did the command throw have priority an the basic throw???

Chupiler

864th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member++

"Re(1):KOF grabs" , posted Fri 24 Oct 02:30

Another thing is that you can't throw people who are in the guard position.

(ﾟ∀ﾟ)ﾉｷｭﾝｷｭﾝ!

Burning Kyo

1863th Post

Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive

"Re(3):KOF grabs" , posted Fri 24 Oct 06:05

quote:
Does the normal throw moves (Forward+ punch/kick) are influenced by this "hit box" too??
I mean all of us have already face the: "wait! I'm the one who try to throw you first!!!" situation...
And finaly did the command throw have priority an the basic throw???

I don't think that the normal throw are influenced, that's why maybe it's considered to be a bitch move in Asia (forbidden or very limited in HK and Singapore).
The tactic of "roll then normal throw" was really powerful in '98.
Your last question leave an interesting point ... I'm not sure but I think that the special throw win over the normal.

鮮やかな世界は音も無く静かに闇に消えて行く

izek
91th Post

Occasional Customer

"Re(4):KOF grabs" , posted Fri 24 Oct 11:35

quote:

Your last question leave an interesting point ... I'm not sure but I think that the special throw win over the normal.

Not sure about that. Once a guy I was playing was using Clark and he did is HCF HCF+K grab DM. I was walking forward pressed punch, my normal throw won.

Burning Kyo

1864th Post

Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive

"Re(5):KOF grabs" , posted Fri 24 Oct 11:59

quote:

Not sure about that. Once a guy I was playing was using Clark and he did is HCF HCF+K grab DM. I was walking forward pressed punch, my normal throw won.

The DM version is slower, 'n maybe your opponent was a dick

鮮やかな世界は音も無く静かに闇に消えて行く

Toxico

3238th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Pointers...." , posted Sun 26 Oct 18:08:

quote:
And finaly did the command throw have priority an the basic throw???

Well, here you have to make a difference; I use to call throws either "normal", inmediate", "delayed" and "special".

Inmadiate throws beat normal thorws; "delayed" throws beat EVERY other throws, "special" are more complicated, for example we got Clark Running throw DM; this throw is special because he first run and then throws; while running you can do anything to him but when the throw comes out the story is different... In this case there is a "huge" gap between the run and the throw thus that produced the example that was given before (normal throw that DM).

Also there a effect that I TRULY hate and that made me stop using grappers since 98' and on: When ever you do a special throw you have a "small" invincible frame rate to throws of the same type; for example if there is a Clark and a Ralph and they both do a "inmediate" throw the one who did it second will throw the enemy. It's damn stupid that there is a "reward" given to slower players; I remember that in 96' & 97' I could always get bothersome throws because I was that 0,1 second faster than the normal people of this country; in 98' and there after I got throwed all the time BECAUSE I was faster... Damn anoying, I must add.

PS: Even though you can do anything to Clark while he is running you have to take in notice what I call the "random evade chance" that every running move has... I won't explain this while I'm on a modem, it's a way to much damn long unintersting story, maybe I'll tell the effects if someone ask, but believe me; it's to damn random to be thrusted.

Monkey told you that!

[this message was edited by Toxico on Sun 26 Oct 19:04]

emeraldazn
194th Post

Regular Customer

"Re(2):KOF grabs" , posted Mon 27 Oct 00:16

quote:
Another thing is that you can't throw people who are in the guard position.

guard position? aka blocking? yes you can..in fact, its a nice solution for turtlers..

Luisinan

523th Post

New Red Carpet Member

"Re(3):KOF grabs" , posted Mon 27 Oct 01:50

quote:
Another thing is that you can't throw people who are in the guard position.

guard position? aka blocking? yes you can..in fact, its a nice solution for turtlers..

Maybe Toxico was talking about block stun. Block stun is the paralyzed state your character enters when they block an attack. It occurs while they block and a few frames after they are done blocking. In Capcom games you can't throw a person while in a block stun. But you can tick throw them (that is, throw them right as soon as they escape block stun).

You may already know this, so don't mind me for repeating this. But it is a common misconception amongst new players that throws are cheap because you can get thrown while in blocking. But that is very incorrect. Once they learn this peice of information, some of these players stop calling throws cheap.

I love/hate regular throws. The other day I got some guy in a corner and threw him 4 or 5 times in a row. Damn that was funny and cool. It's just that people don't expect that. Well, newbies don't know any better.

Bored? "160"

iggy

1936th Post

Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive

"Re(3):KOF grabs" , posted Mon 27 Oct 01:50

quote:
guard position? aka blocking? yes you can..in fact, its a nice solution for turtlers..

No, the instant you are effectively blocking something (projectile, striker, what else)

Chupiler

867th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member++

"Re(3):KOF grabs" , posted Mon 27 Oct 02:04

quote:
Another thing is that you can't throw people who are in the guard position.

guard position? aka blocking? yes you can..in fact, its a nice solution for turtlers..

Try this: have one player hold back, while the other player throws a punch. Right when the 1st player goes into the guard position, have that player constantly crouch and stand while guarding. This will keep 1P in the guard position. Now have 2P perform a command throw, and you should notice that it will miss.

(ﾟ∀ﾟ)ﾉｷｭﾝｷｭﾝ!

Burning Kyo

1866th Post

Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive

"Re(4):KOF grabs" , posted Mon 27 Oct 07:02

quote:
Try this: have one player hold back, while the other player throws a punch. Right when the 1st player goes into the guard position, have that player constantly crouch and stand while guarding. This will keep 1P in the guard position. Now have 2P perform a command throw, and you should notice that it will miss.

If the 2P dash before to command throw, it won't miss.

鮮やかな世界は音も無く静かに闇に消えて行く

Chupiler

869th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member++

"Re(5):KOF grabs" , posted Mon 27 Oct 09:46

quote:

If the 2P dash before to command throw, it won't miss.

It will still miss. The the player guarding doesn't crouch and stand up fast enough, he/she will stop guarding.

(ﾟ∀ﾟ)ﾉｷｭﾝｷｭﾝ!

Toxico

3243th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(6):KOF grabs" , posted Tue 28 Oct 08:35:

quote:

It will still miss. The the player guarding doesn't crouch and stand up fast enough, he/she will stop guarding.

Correct; there is a "variable" that protects a defending character against throws; want proofs??? Put your PS/PS2/DC/PC and and put any KoF game after 98', go to practice and set guard on "on" (or "Hold" maybe, I can't recall correctly); try to land as many throws as you want; you won't be able to do so.

PS: By PC I mean the KoF '99 evolution game, and that's copyrighted, so don't flame me ;).

[this message was edited by Toxico on Tue 28 Oct 09:49]