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| ONSLAUGHT 2401th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
    
|  "Re(2):Mmmmmhh..."
, posted Sun 5 Oct 02:16
quote:
I can't agree that Roy deserved this. He has put smiles on many people's faces. Surely the audience didn't deserve to see that.
The only people who are allowed to say he deserved it are people who are vegans, don't where any leather or buy leather products, and refuse to kill ants. After all, meat comes from cows, and we obtain that by raising them in a confined area, then slaughtering them.
And no, I have no intention to stop eating meat.
No, the audience didn't deserve to see that, I agree with you on this.
However, i think I disagree on everything else.
Using wild animals for human entertainment is not good, it's dangerous for the animals and for the humans (and this incident proves it).
I'm not vegan, and I know cows, porks and chickens are raised in confined areas and then slaughtered, but they are raised with the sole purpose of being eaten and sometimes to use their hide to create shoes and clothes.
What I'm trying to say, is that humans depend heavily on those animals to survive, that's why we kill those animals.
However, when you use animals to entertain humans and gain tons of bucks, you deserve whatever happen to you while you're doing it.
Let wild animals live freely and no incidents like these will happen.
And no, I don't kill ants, the only animals I kill are cockroaches (wich I find to be strikingly similar to human beings, but talking about that, is like opening a big can of worms, so let's leave it at that).
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| Chupiler 856th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(3):Mmmmmhh..." , posted Sun 5 Oct 03:12
I agree that working with animals is a dangerous thing, but I still can't say he deserved it. What you're saying sounds like "driving an SUV is dangerous. Anyone who rides an SUV deserves it when his/her SUV rolls over (consider the driver wasn't shaving while driving or something of the sort)" to me. Deserves is a strong word. What would be a better way of putting it is that he knew he was taking a risk using wild animals in his act, and he can't blame anyone else for making that decision.
quote:
What I'm trying to say, is that humans depend heavily on those animals to survive, that's why we kill those animals.
Humans can survive without eating meat. With the right balanced diet, one could live a normal life without an ounce of meat. We can also make clothes without killing animals. Of course, we can do without animal shows as well :P
quote:
However, when you use animals to entertain humans and gain tons of bucks, you deserve whatever happen to you while you're doing it.
Keeping an endangered species isn't exactly charity work here; it comes with a hefty price tag. Pandas are a good example: they feature them at the zoo to help fund the protection of them (though I don't deny that the zoo also makes a profit).
quote:
Let wild animals live freely and no incidents like these will happen.
True. No shows = no accidents at shows that don't exist. But I'm sure that many species would be extinct by now if it wasn't for some of the protection programs.
But enough of that, I just feel saying that he "deserves" it = telling him to die. I wouldn't mind if there weren't any more animal shows since I don't really watch them, but I'd rather not have a person die or get seriously injured...
(ﾟ∀ﾟ)ﾉｷｭﾝｷｭﾝ!
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| Fygee 847th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(1):The Great American Nightmare" , posted Sun 5 Oct 04:37
quote:
hey, Fygee, what's the closest Vegas landmark you live near?
The last remaining Drive-In, and the Santa-Fe, Texas Station, and Fiesta casino/hotels. ;) I'm closer to the border of North Las Vegas, and the Strip with all the real goodies is about a good half hour away from me.
What is your sig from anyways? I want it. :p
Now regarding the tiger issue again, yes, these animals were used for entertainment, but they were never exploited. As yes, they're in a "prison", but they're treated extemely well with open spaces and most of the comforts of your standard jungle area. Had the white tigers been left to the wild, they would've been extinct by now. I think captivity is a far better option than extinction. They also allow people to recognize what awesome creatures they are, and help raise awareness towards endangered species.
S&R knew of the risks involved as well, its not like this is something they never forsaw as ever happening. Its still tragic, but it wasn't something that was totally unexpected.
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| iggy 1817th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(3):Mmmmmhh..." , posted Sun 5 Oct 05:08:
quote:
No, the audience didn't deserve to see that, I agree with you on this.
I think the exact opposite. I don't know the guy, but I guess doing the clown with tigers is a better job than slave at Mc Donalds, and it's his right to prefer a risky but profitable job to a risky and non profitable one.
On the other hand, the fat assholes that pay to see wild beasts jumps from little podium to one other to get confident that humanity is highly evolved and thus can make fun of every other species deserved to see a little gore. I would be really happy to think they were traumatised and will spend the rest of their lifes in psychiatric confinment, but I guess many of them were happy to see what they saw, and that makes me sad. It's like seeing trapezists, you secretly wait for them to crash.
About the tigers... Well, I'm not familiar with inner feline psychology, but I can say that tigers as a whole are a retarded civilisation, they haven't discovered Bronze working, and in a world were everybody else has synthetic fibers, it's a wonder they haven't been swapped away earlier in the game. But I disgress.
Edit : ostriches boobies.
[this message was edited by iggy on Sun 5 Oct 05:10] |
| ONSLAUGHT 2403th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Here kitty, kitty..." , posted Sun 5 Oct 16:37
quote:
No, the audience didn't deserve to see that, I agree with you on this.
I think the exact opposite. I don't know the guy, but I guess doing the clown with tigers is a better job than slave at Mc Donalds, and it's his right to prefer a risky but profitable job to a risky and non profitable one.
On the other hand, the fat assholes that pay to see wild beasts jumps from little podium to one other to get confident that humanity is highly evolved and thus can make fun of every other species deserved to see a little gore. I would be really happy to think they were traumatised and will spend the rest of their lifes in psychiatric confinment, but I guess many of them were happy to see what they saw, and that makes me sad. It's like seeing trapezists, you secretly wait for them to crash.
About the tigers... Well, I'm not familiar with inner feline psychology, but I can say that tigers as a whole are a retarded civilisation, they haven't discovered Bronze working, and in a world were everybody else has synthetic fibers, it's a wonder they haven't been swapped away earlier in the game. But I disgress.
Edit : ostriches boobies.
Well, I was thinking about "little kids taken to the show by irresponsible parents" when I said that the people didn't deserve to see it, but now that I think carefully about it, maybe a Vegas show is not the right place to have little kids...
Anyway, the tiger is now in "quarantine" (wich probably means "ok tiger, we're holding you here until it's time to kill you if this guy dies", or something similar).
And my dear Iggy, ostriches are beautiful animals with well rounded legs, and of course, they're 6549% better than cows.
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| Fygee 849th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(5):Mmmmmhh..." , posted Sun 5 Oct 17:05
quote:
I have to agree with Iggy. If the tigers acted like that, they had a reason, looks like they weren't happy at all. And what's the point of working with tigers if there are no incidents like this, really? make your show with dogs or something if you don't want this to happen.
Cage of gold, still a prison, as Onslaught said.
First off, if they weren't happy, there would've been many, MANY more incidents in the 30+ year history of the show. The fact that this is the first, and that it wasn't just a full on attack is evidence that the tigers were both well trained and well taken care of. I can tell you right now that animal rights are taken very seriously here in Vegas when it comes to shows like this, and if there was any sign of abuse, they would've cracked down instantly. Even though some may see it as a prison, they're happier and healthier than they ever could've been in the wild.
Second, some new details from audience accounts as to how it went down. It appears that the tiger didn't lash out in anger or anything at all, but was being agressively playful. The tiger first took a swap with is paw in a playful manner and then bit his harm. Roy then hit the tiger on the head with the microphone he was holding (not to injure the animal but as a way to get him off), and that's when the animal lunged at his neck as a response.
No harm will come to the tiger, and its likely he will either be taken to another tiger sanctuary, or stay at the secret garden.
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| iggy 1822th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(7):Mmmmmhh..." , posted Mon 6 Oct 14:23:
quote:
This happens with trained bears a lot, too...
Rugal... This sentence, added to your new avatar, makes me think : are you a trained bear?
Damn, when I'm in the mood for thinking, nothing can stop me. Luckily, it doesn't happens often.
And back to the topic, training tigers is dangerous, but so is real life. Today, after a stupid idea I certainly got after a night where I got drunk so badly I don't even remember it, I shaved for the first time in 7 years. And god, it hurts. The razor just wanted to play, and it mauled me, tearing off a part of my neck, lower face, and part of my left shoulder area. I lost a lot of blood, which may explain my current, sudden and temporary difficulty to post or even think to anything that isn't insanely stupid. I may recover, thank you for asking, but the razor, beeing a non-endengered species, was shot immediatly. Life of young razors is unfair.
[this message was edited by iggy on Mon 6 Oct 14:28] |
| Fygee 854th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(2):Possible end to Siegfried and Roy" , posted Tue 7 Oct 00:54
quote:
If it weren't an endangered animal they'd have likely killed it.
There was a report on the news that wild animals such as tigers are never killed unless they are attacking someone and all other methods of subduing it fail, or if it is found to have some sort of severe disease (primarily rabies), regardless of species and rarity. If the animal is capture and found to be disease free, its given to one of the various tiger sanctuaries, donated to a zoo, or in some cases transported and put back into the wild.
Mantecore (the name of the tiger that attacked Roy) will be tested for rabies (standard procedure, even though its almost 100% certain he doesn't have it or any other disease), and then will be released back into the custody of S&R and its trainers.
quote:
Either way, Vegas is screwed now. It was already starting to return to its former seedy roots (not that I mind... I'm only there for the gambling and strippers anyway). Without Siggy and Roy, things will only get worse.
Yeah, S&R were a HUGE part of The Mirage, and its likely the resort will have a whole lot of trouble if the show doesn't return, or an adequate replacement is found (good luck on that one).
While the show hasn't been officially cancelled altogether, everyone that's worked for it has been asked to find new jobs, meaning that the show as it was is permanently over.
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"The Great American Nightmare" 
the universe and human stupidity