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| DarkZero
249th Post
 
Frequent Customer
    
|  "Re(3):N.Korea Attacking Japan?? Poll inside"
, posted Mon 1 Sep 13:16
quote:
I declare myself ignorant here and just ask: What does North Korea has to win with this? I can't see anything good comming from this.... Let's just hope that this is a big bag of air (as so others).
1. Bribes. North Korea is a horribly mismanaged nation and is essentially in a pit. Because they have little to export and few countries that would actually take their exports, they need to survive mostly on bribes of oil, food, and medical supplies from the countries that are willing to sustain them in exchange for safety from their large army, technologically advanced weaponry, and possible nuclear weapons.
2. Prestige. North Korea, like France and a few other countries, wish to end the age of American political, financial, and military dominance by bringing back the age of dual competing superpowers. If they can become a nuclear power, be taken seriously on a regular basis by other nations, and possibly reunify with South Korea some day, they could actually be a serious force. With North Korea's military might and South Korea's economy and technological advancement, Unified Korea could actually be a pretty big power, even if it's a pretty far-fetched dream.
3. This, and to some degree Point 1, is the more immediate reason: Survival. Bush, in a fit of unbelievable stupidity, announced his war plans in his "Axis of Evil" speech. Saddam Hussein's government is gone, the Iranian theocracy is being quietly subverted by the US government, and North Korea's penned in for some time near the end of the current round of US wars. If North Korea can turn Japan into a suboceanic crater at a moment's notice, the United States will not attack them.
The real order is probably "Survival, Bribes, New Korean Superpower", but every one of them is definitely a part of this. And hey, it's working, isn't it? The United States is talking with them, the Japanese are afraid of them, there has been no substantial decrease in bribes, the new South Korean prime minister isn't hostile toward them, and South Korean polls, as of the last time I checked, continue to favor reunification. Add to that the fact that Iraq is becoming a greater and greater problem for the United States and everything's coming up daisies for North Korea. Except for the actual daisies, of course, which were ripped out of the ground by a starving Korean child that proceeded to eat them vigorously.
Must stay out of political topics... too long-winded... too tempting...
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| thebigword
82th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(4):N.Korea Attacking Japan?? Poll inside" , posted Mon 1 Sep 13:27
quote:
I declare myself ignorant here and just ask: What does North Korea has to win with this? I can't see anything good comming from this.... Let's just hope that this is a big bag of air (as so others).
1. Bribes. North Korea is a horribly mismanaged nation and is essentially in a pit. Because they have little to export and few countries that would actually take their exports, they need to survive mostly on bribes of oil, food, and medical supplies from the countries that are willing to sustain them in exchange for safety from their large army, technologically advanced weaponry, and possible nuclear weapons.
2. Prestige. North Korea, like France and a few other countries, wish to end the age of American political, financial, and military dominance by bringing back the age of dual competing superpowers. If they can become a nuclear power, be taken seriously on a regular basis by other nations, and possibly reunify with South Korea some day, they could actually be a serious force. With North Korea's military might and South Korea's economy and technological advancement, Unified Korea could actually be a pretty big power, even if it's a pretty far-fetched dream.
3. This, and to some degree Point 1, is the more immediate reason: Survival. Bush, in a fit of unbelievable stupidity, announced his war plans in his "Axis of Evil" speech. Saddam Hussein's government is gone, the Iranian theocracy is being quietly subverted by the US government, and North Korea's penned in for some time near the end of the current round of US wars. If North Korea can turn Japan into a suboceanic crater at a moment's notice, the United States will not attack them.
The real order is probably "Survival, Bribes, New Korean Superpower", but every one of them is definitely a part of this. And hey, it's working, isn't it? The United States is talking with them, the Japanese are afraid of them, there has been no substantial decrease in bribes, the new South Korean prime minister isn't hostile toward them, and South Korean polls, as of the last time I checked, continue to favor reunification. Add to that the fact that Iraq is becoming a greater and greater problem for the United States and everything's coming up daisies for North Korea. Except for the actual daisies, of course, which were ripped out of the ground by a starving Korean child that proceeded to eat them vigorously.
Must stay out of political topics... too long-winded... too tempting...
"Bush, in a fit of unbelievable stupidity.."
^
isn't this always the case? oh, it is too tempting...heheheheee
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| Radish 1609th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
    
    
    
| "Re(4):N.Korea Attacking Japan?? Poll inside" , posted Mon 1 Sep 13:46
quote:
1. Bribes. North Korea is a horribly mismanaged nation and is essentially in a pit. Because they have little to export and few countries that would actually take their exports, they need to survive mostly on bribes of oil, food, and medical supplies from the countries that are willing to sustain them in exchange for safety from their large army, technologically advanced weaponry, and possible nuclear weapons.
2. Prestige. North Korea, like France and a few other countries, wish to end the age of American political, financial, and military dominance by bringing back the age of dual competing superpowers. If they can become a nuclear power, be taken seriously on a regular basis by other nations, and possibly reunify with South Korea some day, they could actually be a serious force. With North Korea's military might and South Korea's economy and technological advancement, Unified Korea could actually be a pretty big power, even if it's a pretty far-fetched dream.
3. This, and to some degree Point 1, is the more immediate reason: Survival. Bush, in a fit of unbelievable stupidity, announced his war plans in his "Axis of Evil" speech. Saddam Hussein's government is gone, the Iranian theocracy is being quietly subverted by the US government, and North Korea's penned in for some time near the end of the current round of US wars. If North Korea can turn Japan into a suboceanic crater at a moment's notice, the United States will not attack them.
The real order is probably "Survival, Bribes, New Korean Superpower", but every one of them is definitely a part of this. And hey, it's working, isn't it? The United States is talking with them, the Japanese are afraid of them, there has been no substantial decrease in bribes, the new South Korean prime minister isn't hostile toward them, and South Korean polls, as of the last time I checked, continue to favor reunification. Add to that the fact that Iraq is becoming a greater and greater problem for the United States and everything's coming up daisies for North Korea. Except for the actual daisies, of course, which were ripped out of the ground by a starving Korean child that proceeded to eat them vigorously.
Must stay out of political topics... too long-winded... too tempting...
There is no country that could stand against the United States militarily. The closest I think anyone would come is if the US were to invade China or Russia or try to fight far inland where our Navy would be ineffective. A unified Korea would not increase Korea's footing much unless they gained nuclear capabilities. Korea would never be a "rival" to the United States and I think that Kim understands that which is why he wants into the "Nuclear Club." Once Korea unifies, their economy would deteriorate and you'd be in a situation where one section of the country would need to pay massive amounts of money to modernize the other so it wouldn't be like "You got yourmilitary in my economy! You got your economy in my military!"
Also N Korea has been researching nuclear weapons since at least the Clinton administration where we gave them the technology under the assumption they would use it for power and not for military purposes. While Bush's evil speech was unnecessary (I still don't quite understand the point) it did not tip N Korea. They've been pulling the "We need these massive build ups because everyone wants to attack us!!!" crap before stupid Bush comments.
Link Here
I really doubt we'll be seeing N Korea getting any more or less leverage than they do now. They'll continue their threats against S Korea and Japan in order to extort money and talk about their super great Nukes in order to get us to pay attention. The only reason I could see for the US to invade is if they actually go nuclear. A test of that could push us into war. However I don't think Kim is as crazy as people make him out to be. I think he knows what's going on and has weighed his options enough to know how to stay in control of his country and pursue his pleasures. It's a great country for him and he has no real reason to rock the boat.
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| Time Mage 1607th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(4):N.Korea Attacking Japan?? Poll inside" , posted Mon 1 Sep 14:10
quote:
I declare myself ignorant here and just ask: What does North Korea has to win with this? I can't see anything good comming from this.... Let's just hope that this is a big bag of air (as so others).
1. Bribes. North Korea is a horribly mismanaged nation and is essentially in a pit. Because they have little to export and few countries that would actually take their exports, they need to survive mostly on bribes of oil, food, and medical supplies from the countries that are willing to sustain them in exchange for safety from their large army, technologically advanced weaponry, and possible nuclear weapons.
2. Prestige. North Korea, like France and a few other countries, wish to end the age of American political, financial, and military dominance by bringing back the age of dual competing superpowers. If they can become a nuclear power, be taken seriously on a regular basis by other nations, and possibly reunify with South Korea some day, they could actually be a serious force. With North Korea's military might and South Korea's economy and technological advancement, Unified Korea could actually be a pretty big power, even if it's a pretty far-fetched dream.
3. This, and to some degree Point 1, is the more immediate reason: Survival. Bush, in a fit of unbelievable stupidity, announced his war plans in his "Axis of Evil" speech. Saddam Hussein's government is gone, the Iranian theocracy is being quietly subverted by the US government, and North Korea's penned in for some time near the end of the current round of US wars. If North Korea can turn Japan into a suboceanic crater at a moment's notice, the United States will not attack them.
The real order is probably "Survival, Bribes, New Korean Superpower", but every one of them is definitely a part of this. And hey, it's working, isn't it? The United States is talking with them, the Japanese are afraid of them, there has been no substantial decrease in bribes, the new South Korean prime minister isn't hostile toward them, and South Korean polls, as of the last time I checked, continue to favor reunification. Add to that the fact that Iraq is becoming a greater and greater problem for the United States and everything's coming up daisies for North Korea. Except for the actual daisies, of course, which were ripped out of the ground by a starving Korean child that proceeded to eat them vigorously.
Must stay out of political topics... too long-winded... too tempting...
Points 1 and 3 are my point of view also, but I totally disagree on point 2. I don't think any country wants to revert to a military status quo with the US... And anyway, it would be very difficult to the two you're specifically naming. Specially, I don't see any militar race against the US by France. Political and, to some extent, economical confrontation? Sure, but not in the military side.
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| DarkZero 250th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(5):N.Korea Attacking Japan?? Poll inside" , posted Mon 1 Sep 15:24
(Please excuse me if I hop around a bit. I tried replying point-by-point to both of you, but that ended up as nothing but a mess.)
quote:
Also N Korea has been researching nuclear weapons since at least the Clinton administration where we gave them the technology under the assumption they would use it for power and not for military purposes. While Bush's evil speech was unnecessary (I still don't quite understand the point) it did not tip N Korea. They've been pulling the "We need these massive build ups because everyone wants to attack us!!!" crap before stupid Bush comments.
Link Here
This entire round of talks/threats began because North Korea brought its nuclear program to life after they had shelved it for years in exchange for bribes. The United States felt that they may have started it up again, they investigated, and the North Koreans openly told them that the program had been restarted. No article that I've read so far has suggested that the program never stopped and had simply gone undetected. It was restarted, the US government found out, and now, here we are.
I also think that the "we need to defense ourselves" rhetoric was actually pretty hollow until now. I think that before, the North Koreans just didn't feel like openly saying, "We needed to test our missiles before we sell them to some violent Middle Eastern hellholes." One of North Korea's main sources of income is missile exports to aggressive nations around the globe. Being open about that would have made them the center of attention when they didn't want to be in the spotlight. Now that it's been announced that the US is planning to attack or subvert them, however, I'd bet that their main concern really is self-defense.
TM:
quote:
Points 1 and 3 are my point of view also, but I totally disagree on point 2. I don't think any country wants to revert to a military status quo with the US... And anyway, it would be very difficult to the two you're specifically naming. Specially, I don't see any militar race against the US by France. Political and, to some extent, economical confrontation? Sure, but not in the military side.
I think plenty of them want to obtain military equality with the United States. What national leader could possibly be happy about the fact that they have no leverage against the United States, essentially making them a provincial governor of a plot of land on Planet America? The entire debate over Iraq has proved, both to the US's allies and its targets, that the US cannot be stopped by political, financial, or military means by anyone else, or EVERYONE else, in the world. I'm sure that plenty of them are actively seeking a way to at least slow the United States down, probably with the hope of eventually becoming a serious rival to it.
North Korea and France seem to the only ones actively and openly seeking to rival the United States. North Korea is constantly expanding its military and developing greater and greater military technology, including nuclear arms, but they could already easily conquer Japan or South Korea in a 1v1 or 1v2 war. With both Russia and China being fairly friendly toward them, that leaves the United States, which has quite a bit of military hardware and personnel in South Korea and Japan, as the only enemy that they could be equipping themselves to fight.
France seems to be dedicated toward becoming a rival to the United States both politically and economically, but I really shouldn't have included them under "military". I've heard a few claims, mostly from credible sources like The Economist, that the military angle of France's ambitions has to do with the EU army, but I don't really buy that. I'm sure they wish they had a strong military force, but it's not coming any time soon.
quote:
There is no country that could stand against the United States militarily. The closest I think anyone would come is if the US were to invade China or Russia or try to fight far inland where our Navy would be ineffective. A unified Korea would not increase Korea's footing much unless they gained nuclear capabilities. Korea would never be a "rival" to the United States and I think that Kim understands that which is why he wants into the "Nuclear Club." Once Korea unifies, their economy would deteriorate and you'd be in a situation where one section of the country would need to pay massive amounts of money to modernize the other so it wouldn't be like "You got yourmilitary in my economy! You got your economy in my military!"
All I meant was that it was their ambition, not that it was a brilliant or logical one. North Korea's nuclear ambitions and continued advancements in military technology don't seem to have any purpose other than fighting or intimidating the United States. Regardless of whether they could ever reach their goal, I think it's pretty obvious that it is their goal and that they are trying to reach it.
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"N.Korea Attacking Japan?? Poll inside" 
"Re(2):N.Korea Attacking Japan?? Poll inside" 