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"Disney CEO Michael Eisner: "2-D is dead."" , posted Sat 16 Aug 20:31post reply


I'm on the mailing list of Disney 2D animator Lon Smart, and his latest e-mail made note of how Disney is essentially winding down and stopping production of 2D animated features (hence making him former Disney 2D animator as of this week).

An excerpt from his e-mail:

Disney had no 2D films lined up after the last film that is in production is wrapped up. There were a few that have been finished for release after Brother Bear. "Home on the Range" and "Angel and her no good Sister" (formerly "My Peoples") They have about twelve 3D animators in California developing some 3D films. But they will probably be sent off to India to be finished up. Disney has layed off over 1,500 animators. Basically everybody. California, Paris and Florida.

He also provided this link to this article:
http://www.mouseplanet.com/david/dk030814.htm

It's not an objective article; it has an anti-Disney-corporate-management stance. [Not that I mind, given Disney's been going down the financial toilet under these guys.] Basic gist: Disney's 2D films haven't been doing well financially; big name 3D films have. So, Disney's management believes that people only want 3D films now, notes how Pixar's contract with them is almost up, and is dumping 2D animation to focus on 3D. The author communicates the idea that Disney's management believes that going 3D will be their complete saving grace, ignoring concepts of storyline/content (Pixar films, Shrek) and ignoring flops of 3D films focusing on technology (FF: The Spirits Within).

Though it's dangerous to assume, from any slanted article, that some of the quotes and mentioned actions aren't taken out of context, Disney's higher-ups aren't exactly revered in the business community, so I'll just agree that Disney's screwing itself over.

So then I say -- the parallels to the video game world are just freaky. You'd think these guys would ever look at applicable case studies...?






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"Disney is dead. (IMO)" , posted Sat 16 Aug 20:39post reply


This doesn't surprise me at all, especially given their most recent mediocre fare (*coughatlantiscough*). I found it both funny and sad that they had to include a Nemo reference in the Brother Bear trailer (same way I felt about Stitch crashing the B&TB ballroom scene).

Without Pixar the Mouse House is done for.





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"Re(1):Disney is dead. (IMO)" , posted Sat 16 Aug 21:19post reply


quote:
This doesn't surprise me at all, especially given their most recent mediocre fare (*coughatlantiscough*). I found it both funny and sad that they had to include a Nemo reference in the Brother Bear trailer (same way I felt about Stitch crashing the B&TB ballroom scene).

Without Pixar the Mouse House is done for.



Talk about complete, and pardon my language, "ass." I know I'm gonna sound like a ranting fanboy but these guys don't know $#!(. Really. I am so sick of these corporate types. I am so sick of these guys that think they can put the corporate label and people will automatically buy it.

Stupid to the nth degree. I never liked Disney that much but I could appreciate what they did for the artform of animation. I know Disney was all about money but now it really is all about money. Just sickens me.

Damnit.






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"Re(2):Disney is dead. (IMO)" , posted Sat 16 Aug 21:37post reply


Walt Disney should haunt Michael Eisner from his grave.





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"Re(2):Disney is dead. (IMO)" , posted Sat 16 Aug 21:43post reply


quote:
This doesn't surprise me at all, especially given their most recent mediocre fare (*coughatlantiscough*). I found it both funny and sad that they had to include a Nemo reference in the Brother Bear trailer (same way I felt about Stitch crashing the B&TB ballroom scene).

Without Pixar the Mouse House is done for.


Talk about complete, and pardon my language, "ass." I know I'm gonna sound like a ranting fanboy but these guys don't know $#!(. Really. I am so sick of these corporate types. I am so sick of these guys that think they can put the corporate label and people will automatically buy it.

Stupid to the nth degree. I never liked Disney that much but I could appreciate what they did for the artform of animation. I know Disney was all about money but now it really is all about money. Just sickens me.

Damnit.



Expenses, expenses... if it didn't cost so much to entertain people nowadays there just wouldn't be problems like this.





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"Re(1):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sat 16 Aug 21:53post reply


quote:
I'm on the mailing list of Disney 2D animator Lon Smart, and his latest e-mail made note of how Disney is essentially winding down and stopping production of 2D animated features (hence making him former Disney 2D animator as of this week).

An excerpt from his e-mail:

Disney had no 2D films lined up after the last film that is in production is wrapped up. There were a few that have been finished for release after Brother Bear. "Home on the Range" and "Angel and her no good Sister" (formerly "My Peoples") They have about twelve 3D animators in California developing some 3D films. But they will probably be sent off to India to be finished up. Disney has layed off over 1,500 animators. Basically everybody. California, Paris and Florida.

He also provided this link to this article:
http://www.mouseplanet.com/david/dk030814.htm

It's not an objective article; it has an anti-Disney-corporate-management stance. [Not that I mind, given Disney's been going down the financial toilet under these guys.] Basic gist: Disney's 2D films haven't been doing well financially; big name 3D films have. So, Disney's management believes that people only want 3D films now, notes how Pixar's contract with them is almost up, and is dumping 2D animation to focus on 3D. The author communicates the idea that Disney's management believes that going 3D will be their complete saving grace, ignoring concepts of storyline/content (Pixar films, Shrek) and ignoring flops of 3D films focusing on technology (FF: The Spirits Within).

Though it's dangerous to assume, from any slanted article, that some of the quotes and mentioned actions aren't taken out of context, Disney's higher-ups aren't exactly revered in the business community, so I'll just agree that Disney's screwing itself over.

So then I say -- the parallels to the video game world are just freaky. You'd think these guys would ever look at applicable case studies...?



WAIT?!?! Is this just feature films or ALL 2D animation?

Because Disney already stole Clerks:the Animated Series from me, if they take Kim Possible too I'll murder everyone whose ever looked at their stupid Dwarf-pillared HQ!!!!

(wow, I sure am glad I changed the emphasis of my major from "tradtional animation" to "character design illustration", now I can just compete in an over-filled job market were I'm servely out classed, rather and an over-filled job market were I'm servely out classed and there's no more companies hiring in that field EVER)






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"Re(1):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sat 16 Aug 22:13post reply


quote:
I'm on the mailing list of Disney 2D animator Lon Smart, and his latest e-mail made note of how Disney is essentially winding down and stopping production of 2D animated features (hence making him former Disney 2D animator as of this week).

An excerpt from his e-mail:

Disney had no 2D films lined up after the last film that is in production is wrapped up. There were a few that have been finished for release after Brother Bear. "Home on the Range" and "Angel and her no good Sister" (formerly "My Peoples") They have about twelve 3D animators in California developing some 3D films. But they will probably be sent off to India to be finished up. Disney has layed off over 1,500 animators. Basically everybody. California, Paris and Florida.

He also provided this link to this article:
http://www.mouseplanet.com/david/dk030814.htm

It's not an objective article; it has an anti-Disney-corporate-management stance. [Not that I mind, given Disney's been going down the financial toilet under these guys.] Basic gist: Disney's 2D films haven't been doing well financially; big name 3D films have. So, Disney's management believes that people only want 3D films now, notes how Pixar's contract with them is almost up, and is dumping 2D animation to focus on 3D. The author communicates the idea that Disney's management believes that going 3D will be their complete saving grace, ignoring concepts of storyline/content (Pixar films, Shrek) and ignoring flops of 3D films focusing on technology (FF: The Spirits Within).

Though it's dangerous to assume, from any slanted article, that some of the quotes and mentioned actions aren't taken out of context, Disney's higher-ups aren't exactly revered in the business community, so I'll just agree that Disney's screwing itself over.

So then I say -- the parallels to the video game world are just freaky. You'd think these guys would ever look at applicable case studies...?



I have a feeling that 2-d games and animation will go 3-d. Then, eventually it'll come back around and go 2-d again.






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"Re(1):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sat 16 Aug 22:28post reply


I've hated Eisner for over a decade (I've actually picketed against Disney at one pount). I'm glad he continues to provide me with reasons to hate him.





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"Re(2):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 01:12post reply


so i guess we won't see any more "only on video" sequels. and i was looking forward to the Little Mermaid part six





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"Re(3):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 03:45post reply


Eisner is the devil.

Its very unfortunate that he and the other at Disney can't see that quality content, characters, and story make a movie great, not the technical aspects.

Basically the days of smash hits like the Lion King and Beauty and the Beast are gone, thanks to people like him.





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"Re(4):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 06:47post reply


This is so sad. Now even Disney themselves are giving up on 2-D. Ugh. I'm disgusted. They're the pioneers of 2-D animation.

Lilo and Stitch turned out to be their biggest hit since Tarzan,according to what it made at the box office. And it's been more popular than the others released before.

Will this philosophy work for Disney if they do decide to abadon 2-D? In the words of Stitch, "Meega Na La Kweesta". :p






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"Re(1):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 07:06post reply


I'm quite uninformed in this area, but has Disney produced any popular 3D feature films by themselves yet? It seems quite a big leap(or bad management) to be firing 2D animators without trying out the 3D market out themselves first if not.





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"Re(2):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 07:22post reply


quote:
I'm quite uninformed in this area, but has Disney produced any popular 3D feature films by themselves yet? It seems quite a big leap(or bad management) to be firing 2D animators without trying out the 3D market out themselves first if not.



The only non-Pixar 3-D film that they've released is Dinosaur, which was (and did) okay but was nowhere near the quality of Pixar stuff.

I can this news not going over well with Disney Fans, who will shell out money to see a good 2-D film (Lilo and Stitch)...







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"Re(2):Disney is dead. (IMO)" , posted Sun 17 Aug 08:59post reply


DISNAY SUXCKS





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"Re(1):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 09:27post reply


"Eisner has expressed interest in reanimating Disney's classic 2-D features in 3-D"

lololololol
Right now, all those who wish for the rupture of the Disney factory must be thanking god, for Michael Eisner's existence

Hmmmmmm Ariel in 3D....mmmmm xD






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"Re(2):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 09:55post reply


Ah, 2D will be back someday, this 3D movie thing is just a fad. Either way, Disney could stand to take a dive, force them to do new things.





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"Re(3):Disney is dead. (IMO)" , posted Sun 17 Aug 12:57post reply


quote:
DISNAY SUXCKS

this is incredibly hilarious when i imagine your AV saying that





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"Re(2):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 14:52post reply


quote:
"Eisner has expressed interest in reanimating Disney's classic 2-D features in 3-D"

lololololol
Right now, all those who wish for the rupture of the Disney factory must be thanking god, for Michael Eisner's existence

Hmmmmmm Ariel in 3D....mmmmm xD



Wow.... so they get to re-hash the same movies.... without even having to use a single brain cell in the process.

Im pretty sure disney dont own pixar... its a matter of time b4 they break off.





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"Re(3):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 15:05post reply


I always knew Eisner was a moron but I didn't realize he was this blazingly stupid.





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"Re(3):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 16:56post reply


quote:
Im pretty sure disney dont own pixar... its a matter of time b4 they break off.



Two more movies I believe (unless the unfathomable happens and Disney actually let's them get more money for their work. If not, maybe Ice Age 2 won't look so awful! Last I heard FOX has in best bet for taking over should Disney let them go.)






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"Re(4):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 17:28post reply


quote:
Im pretty sure disney dont own pixar... its a matter of time b4 they break off.


Two more movies I believe (unless the unfathomable happens and Disney actually let's them get more money for their work. If not, maybe Ice Age 2 won't look so awful! Last I heard FOX has in best bet for taking over should Disney let them go.)



Hey,Ice Age was awesome! I liked it.






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"Re(1):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 17:29post reply


I used to defend Michael Eisner a little when people would mindlessly bash him. If that's an actual quote from Eisner "2D is dead" then I'll stop. It sounds bad anyway that Disney is dumping it's 2D animators...

If Disney's animators could come together and form their own break off company, then this could turn out to be a good thing. They are talented technically. I wonder what all that talent could do without the Dark Rat raining down lameness on their work. It's not like Disney was making great films 2D or 3D in the last many years anyway. Without Disney those animators, assuming we could regroup them somewhere, would make something better, I'm sure.

The most financially successful films of the last many yearas were made by -> Pixar, not Disney. It's like if Carl's french fries were making huge amounts of money, so McDonalds decides to stop producing hamburgers and focus on french fries to save them. I think Disney will crash and burn at least creatively by dropping their 2D animators. Their products are already not very good creatively, they'll just be more so un-good.

Did you know, I read that the most successful branch of Disney is...ESPN.





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"Disney CEO Michael Eisner: "I'm a tool"" , posted Sun 17 Aug 17:30post reply


Ridiculous... while I've never really been a fan of Disney's animated films (with a couple of exceptions, namely Aladdin and Robin Hood), the fact that the films they make that bomb happen to be traditional animation (Nadi... I mean Atlantis, Treasure Planet, etc.) and the films that Pixar makes that make a bazillion dollars happen to be CG is purely coincidental. The fact of the matter is that Pixar crafts wonderful tales that a) aren't rehashes/retellings of classic fables, myths, and novels, b) don't beat you over the head with moral symbolism and political correctness, and c) don't have irritating "wisecracking" non-human sidekicks.

Please... I dare anyone to find an animated Disney film post-Little Mermaid that doesn't have a talking animal/robot/non-human sidekick. Aladdin? Check. Lion King? Check. B+tB? Check. Hercules? Check. Mulan? Check. Hunchback? Check. Emperor's New Groove? Check. Atlantis? Check. Treasure Planet? Check. Am I missing any?

I suppose it's not that big of a deal, but in my mind it kind of symbolizes Disney's way of thinking the last 10 years or so: find something that works and then sanitize it, dumb it down, and mass-produce it until you've stripped it of everything that made it entertaining in the first place.





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"Re(5):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 17:56post reply


quote:
Hey,Ice Age was awesome! I liked it.



Hey! Compared to Shrek and anything Pixar made Ice Age was rather primative looking.

I haven't seen the full movie yet, so for all I know it's a dynamic storyline and extremely lovable characters, but that doesn't mean their lackluster texturing is any good.






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"Re(1):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 18:00post reply


quote:
Ridiculous... while I've never really been a fan of Disney's animated films (with a couple of exceptions, namely Aladdin and Robin Hood), the fact that the films they make that bomb happen to be traditional animation (Nadi... I mean Atlantis, Treasure Planet, etc.) and the films that Pixar makes that make a bazillion dollars happen to be CG is purely coincidental. The fact of the matter is that Pixar crafts wonderful tales that a) aren't rehashes/retellings of classic fables, myths, and novels, b) don't beat you over the head with moral symbolism and political correctness, and c) don't have irritating "wisecracking" non-human sidekicks.

Please... I dare anyone to find an animated Disney film post-Little Mermaid that doesn't have a talking animal/robot/non-human sidekick. Aladdin? Check. Lion King? Check. B+tB? Check. Hercules? Check. Mulan? Check. Hunchback? Check. Emperor's New Groove? Check. Atlantis? Check. Treasure Planet? Check. Am I missing any?

I suppose it's not that big of a deal, but in my mind it kind of symbolizes Disney's way of thinking the last 10 years or so: find something that works and then sanitize it, dumb it down, and mass-produce it until you've stripped it of everything that made it entertaining in the first place.



Beauty and the Beast does-not have a talking animal/robot/non-human sidekick. All of those objects that talk are actually humans, so you're wrong.

MESSATSU

Beauty and the Beast is my favorite Disney animated movie, next to Sleeping Beauty (arriving on DVD this Sept. Yay!)






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"Re(2):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 18:18post reply


quote:
Beauty and the Beast does-not have a talking animal/robot/non-human sidekick. All of those objects that talk are actually humans, so you're wrong.

MESSATSU


You've got a point there... and techincally wouldn't the Lion King not count as well? I mean it IS a story about jungle animals, so wouldn't the side kick need to be a human to really fit the same archtype?

quote:
Beauty and the Beast is my favorite Disney animated movie, next to Sleeping Beauty (arriving on DVD this Sept. Yay!)



That reminds me! Eisner did one 2-D related thing right: Want more money!

Every year in the Spring and Fall we'll get a new "Platnium Edition" Disney classic! (this year's are Lion King and Sleeping Beauty... although both come out in the fall they're being counted as the start of this trend) I don't have the list, but I believe a "modern age" movie comes out every spring with a "golden age" in the fall.

Also Kiki, Castle in the Sky, and Spirted Away were the start of another trend: Miyazaki 2-Disc Waves!

I forgot what the next wave is (aside from it containing Porko Rosso and two other movies) but it's out later this year... I'm sure that next year Totoro will be released under Disney's branding (as they'll get the copyright's from FOX then and will probably want to milk it fast) and I'm sure Princess Mononoke will be rereleased with a second disc as well.

YAAAAY! Disney will keep brining us 2D fun on the secondary market, even if the no good bastard in charge doesn't want to make any more good films.






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"Re(1):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 18:22post reply


quote:
Emperor's New Groove? Check.



Isn't the non-human wise-cracking "sidekick" the main character in that story?





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"Re(2):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 18:35post reply


quote:
Beauty and the Beast does-not have a talking animal/robot/non-human sidekick. All of those objects that talk are actually humans, so you're wrong.


By that logic, Emperor's New Groove wouldn't either since the llama is actually a human... however, in both cases, they spend the vast majority of the film as animals/objects that normally can't talk. Dr. B's point about the Lion King is pretty valid, though that's an entire movie about talking animals. Oh, and I forgot Lilo + Stitch... which has Stitch.

Anywho, while I'm sure someone will find a hole in my original statement, my point still remains the same: the recent batch of Disney animated films don't suck because they're 2D, they suck because they're creatively bankrupt and Michael Eisner blaming traditional animation is yet another instance of his (and the rest of the corporate executives at the big D) completely missing the point and taking a once proud company one step closer to financial ruin.





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"Re(3):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 18:45post reply


quote:
Beauty and the Beast does-not have a talking animal/robot/non-human sidekick. All of those objects that talk are actually humans, so you're wrong.

By that logic, Emperor's New Groove wouldn't either since the llama is actually a human... however, in both cases, they spend the vast majority of the film as animals/objects that normally can't talk. Dr. B's point about the Lion King is pretty valid, though that's an entire movie about talking animals. Oh, and I forgot Lilo + Stitch... which has Stitch.

Anywho, while I'm sure someone will find a hole in my original statement, my point still remains the same: the recent batch of Disney animated films don't suck because they're 2D, they suck because they're creatively bankrupt and Michael Eisner blaming traditional animation is yet another instance of his (and the rest of the corporate executives at the big D) completely missing the point and taking a once proud company one step closer to financial ruin.



Disney has its thumb in so many pies it will never go out of business. They own things people would never accociate with them (like small town newspapers and I *think* electrical plants). If they continue on this path though I would hope they stop making movies since they haven't put out a godd one in who knows how long. I don't count Pixar movies in Disney's credit.





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"Re(4):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 19:20post reply


Completely OT - Radish, is that Ratchet on your av?





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"Re(5):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Sun 17 Aug 20:10post reply


But Capcom said 2-d will never die...





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"..." , posted Sun 17 Aug 21:28post reply


quote:
But Capcom said 2-d will never die...



Of course not--it'll be murdered...





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"Re(1):..." , posted Mon 18 Aug 15:30post reply


Dr. B brought up Kiki's Delivery Service. Just thought I'd commment that it's one of my favorite anime films. I've watched it like 4 times. I gotta get the DVD.






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"Re(6):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Mon 18 Aug 20:21post reply


quote:
But Capcom said 2-d will never die...



They also said "Megaman Battle and Chase coming to the US" and "Capcom Fighting All-Stars does not suck!"

Point is they're flithy liars!






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"Re(1):Disney CEO Michael Eisner:" , posted Mon 18 Aug 23:16post reply


Disney has a department that collects everything printed about them ever, in newspapers/magazines etc.