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| DarkZero
209th Post
 
Frequent Customer
    
|  "Re(1):Something I heard"
, posted Wed 13 Aug 17:26
quote:
I just read somewhere that when TP finishes releasing Initial D they will release a collectors edition that will be unedited and have the original names. Is that true?
If releasing the Initial D manga unedited was deemed unprofitable to begin with, why would they decide to release it later, after so many people have just buckled down, decided to deal with it, and bought it?
As for the anime, I felt a little bit guilty about getting a DVD fansub box set of the first 26 episodes of Initial D last November when I knew that it had been licensed. After it turned out that it would take a full two years for Initial D to be released after having been licensed, I felt a bit better. Now, in light of this horrific three-episode-per-disc atrocity, I feel pretty damn good about my purchase and hope that the same store will have a box set of the next season when I visit Chinatown again in the fall. Hopefully a lot of online fansubbers will ignore the "if it's been licensed, don't distribute the fansub" rule in this case just like they did with Dragonball Z back when fansubs were still being distributed on VHS.
I've hated Tokyopop for years now after watching them slaughter several good manga with poor translations, the sort of grammar that small children point and laugh at, and their asinine font that made many early fan translations look like masterpieces. After they edited their Saint Tail DVDs and still called them "unedited", I feared for Initial D's quality and seem to have been proven right.
Why any Japanese companies do business with Tokyopop and Funimation is beyond me. I guess they just have deep pockets.
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| Grave 536th Post
New Red Carpet Member
    
| "Re(2):Something I heard" , posted Wed 13 Aug 17:37
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Hopefully a lot of online fansubbers will ignore the "if it's been licensed, don't distribute the fansub" rule in this case just like they did with Dragonball Z back when fansubs were still being distributed on VHS.
A lot of fansubbers aren't letting it stop them anymore. For long series, I think it's a blessing... I certainly don't plan on waiting until all of One Piece airs on US TV, whenever that happens...
quote:
Why any Japanese companies do business with Tokyopop and Funimation is beyond me. I guess they just have deep pockets.
To Tokyopop's credit, Initial D seems to be their worst, most-disputed property. The Lupin III manga and GTO manga are very good. Initial D fans just keep getting screwed, though. But then again, some like to screw themselves... I saw someone shell out a lot for an Initial D plush muffler at Otakon. Hmm...
Anyway! Funimation isn't the  devil everyone makes them out to be. The Yu Yu Hakusho DVDs seem to be handled pretty well.. the subs are good and the episodes appear to be unedited, but I've only seen the first few discs.
Purists will ALWAYS find something to bitch about, though. Always.
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| DKW
235th Post
Frequent Customer
| "This is gonna be a tough one..." , posted Wed 13 Aug 22:34
...okay, here goes.
I'm a big fan of the manga. I realize that it has a number of technical mistakes, not to mention all the nicknames. I don't have a problem with this. That's because I see Initial D as the story of a young man building a legend in an unusual sport, not an F1 pit crew training manual. So long as Takumi is still the unbeatable hero, Itsuki is the lovable comic relief guy, Natsuki is the main love interest, etc., I don't care how many cute nicknames they give these characters.
That said...I really have a problem with the wholesale changes to the anime. Individually, none of the changes are all that alarming (Natsuki's relationship with Papa is a very minor subplot in the manga, as it should be), but on the whole, it stinks. It really looks like Tokyopop is trying to completely change the direction and tone of the anime, as opposed to making it easier to sell to an American audience.
Well, that's the anime industry for you...it screws up everything no matter which side of the pond it's on.
The saddest thing would be if this ends up like Fist of the North Star, where too many reviewers and new watchers disparaged the entire franchise solely on the basis of the anime. Just so we're perfectly clear, I want the translated manga to keep arriving (and I don't care who does it), I want Arcade Stage to remain for a long time and eventually have a version 3, and I want a translated Special Stage to reach our shores. And I'm praying like hell that the backlash against this one piece of the pie doesn't ruin the prospects for everything else.
homepage - http://home.hawaii.rr.com/dkwff
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| deoch
209th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(1):This is gonna be a tough one..." , posted Thu 14 Aug 01:04
Editing in general is pretty unacceptable to me... On the bright side, it seems that only the subtitle track is "edited" on the classic edition... But still, I don't really feel that you could call it a "translation" anymore when you modify what the people are saying.
As for the "tricked out" edition, I find it completely understandable if dub fans are irritated with it. I would think that they have the right to an accurate portrayal of the original script... Guess not though.
I think one of the reasons why Tokyopop went through this is because they had hoped to get their "tricked out" version aired on TV... and believed that their edits would make it more appealing to foreign viewers... However, that hasn't happened..
Anyways, I think this has turned into a pretty unfortunate situation.. At the very least, they shouldn't muck around with the 'classic' version... I'm glad that I am not a fan of Initial D, because Tokyopop's treatment of the series would have me worried... Especially if they change the video/audio of the 'classic' version in the future... Subtitle script changes are bad enough already.
As for the comment on Funimation, I would also like to defend them. They have done a fine job with Fruits Basket, including a bunch of the R2 extras, solid subtitles with honorifics, Japanese/English alternate angles for the OP/ED, and releasing it at an affordable price.
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| Jazzie D 2131th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
   
| "Re(3):Something I heard" , posted Thu 14 Aug 13:52:
quote:
Anyway! Funimation isn't the devil everyone makes them out to be. The Yu Yu Hakusho DVDs seem to be handled pretty well.. the subs are good and the episodes appear to be unedited, but I've only seen the first few discs.
Purists will ALWAYS find something to bitch about, though. Always.
To be honest, Funi has never really did do an all-around decent job w/ any of their series. Not even w/ The White Paper. Some of the voices don't fit in the dub of it at all, namely Hiei's and Botan's and they toned down the translation as far as I know in the sub. Remember. Yuu Yuu Hakusho is not a bright series, even though the anime is a bit brighter than the manga. It has a lot of profanity and that's why I tell people to watch the fan subs and not the Funi version.
Still, yeah. It's not the worst group out there. It's definitely on the bottom, but it's not the worst group.
As for Initial D, I knew it would be neutered, but I never thought that it would be neutered that badly. I never liked the series, except for the Eurobeat soundtrack. Even if there is a subbed version, it's not uncut as the review mentioned. Oh geez!
For those that jumped into this topic that never saw this series, don't get the TP version. Get the fan subs. They're that much better.
Takino Tomo-chan - Kimura-sensei why did you become a teacher?
Kimura-sensei - CUZ I LIKE HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS AND STUFF!
[this message was edited by Jazzie D on Thu 14 Aug 14:07] |
| Grave 547th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(4):Something I heard" , posted Thu 14 Aug 15:35
quote:
To be honest, Funi has never really did do an all-around decent job w/ any of their series. Not even w/ The White Paper. Some of the voices don't fit in the dub of it at all, namely Hiei's and Botan's and they toned down the translation as far as I know in the sub. Remember. Yuu Yuu Hakusho is not a bright series, even though the anime is a bit brighter than the manga. It has a lot of profanity and that's why I tell people to watch the fan subs and not the Funi version.
Eh, is it really that important? "Watch the fansubs, because they don't cuss in the US subbed DVDs!" As long as the basic story's intact and the dialogue reads well and fairly in tune with what it was originally supposed to be, I don't care. Keep in mind, Funimation is pitching these things to a pretty young audience here. Does a character really need to say "Shit!" when he can say "Damn!"? Am I the only one who doesn't feel this kind of accuracy is always important?
quote:
As for Initial D, I knew it would be neutered, but I never thought that it would be neutered that badly. I never liked the series, except for the Eurobeat soundtrack. Even if there is a subbed version, it's not uncut as the review mentioned. Oh geez!
For those that jumped into this topic that never saw this series, don't get the TP version. Get the fan subs. They're that much better.
I doubt I'll be watching Initial D in any form, but if I did, it'd definitely be in fansubs... mostly because without the cool Eurobeat music, a lot of the attraction is gone for me, heh heh. And I've seen the first few episodes, and... ugh! Bad CG. Though I heard it did get a lot better.
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| Jazzie D 2131th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Something I heard" , posted Thu 14 Aug 17:19
quote:
To be honest, Funi has never really did do an all-around decent job w/ any of their series. Not even w/ The White Paper. Some of the voices don't fit in the dub of it at all, namely Hiei's and Botan's and they toned down the translation as far as I know in the sub. Remember. Yuu Yuu Hakusho is not a bright series, even though the anime is a bit brighter than the manga. It has a lot of profanity and that's why I tell people to watch the fan subs and not the Funi version.
Eh, is it really that important? "Watch the fansubs, because they don't cuss in the US subbed DVDs!" As long as the basic story's intact and the dialogue reads well and fairly in tune with what it was originally supposed to be, I don't care. Keep in mind, Funimation is pitching these things to a pretty young audience here. Does a character really need to say "Shit!" when he can say "Damn!"? Am I the only one who doesn't feel this kind of accuracy is always important?
Don't underestimate the importanace of even a tiny bit like this. Profanity can and will add feeling to a series, especially Yuu Yuu Hakusho. Adding on, you don't throw a series like this towards kids because this is a teenage series.
This is why I hate the butchering of Yuugioh so much. They make a teen series look real kiddy, when in reality, they're not supposed to be. You want kiddy? Sit down through Pocket Monsters, but even then, people did cuss in that series, including Satoshi. I don't think people will ever see the real Yuugioh here or Pocket Monsters for that matter.
quote:
I doubt I'll be watching Initial D in any form, but if I did, it'd definitely be in fansubs... mostly because without the cool Eurobeat music, a lot of the attraction is gone for me, heh heh. And I've seen the first few episodes, and... ugh! Bad CG. Though I heard it did get a lot better.
Yup, but still, with a small audience and lifeless characters, why go on?
Takino Tomo-chan - Kimura-sensei why did you become a teacher?
Kimura-sensei - CUZ I LIKE HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS AND STUFF!
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| Jazzie D 2132th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):Something I heard" , posted Thu 14 Aug 17:25
quote:
Umm...You forget Fruits Basket, which is pretty much the best anime on DVD release this year in terms of quality. Quality sub, great episode count, and most of the extras from the Japanese discs.
As for toned down swearing? I think that comes from the way you can interpert Japanese slang. You can go with the harser English slang or milder one and still be faithful to the source. So I wouldn't harp on a sub for using a milder version of slang...
As for Tokyopop, well luckily it seems they're only doing this with Inital D. I'll chalk this up to a silly decision on their part, and keep up with their other stuff which is high quality.
Oh! Kyou has a dub actor of a Canadian who spent six months in Texas (if I recall) and Touru is yet another Valley girl! Yay!
Like I said, no all-around good series has been released yet by the group, though yeah, I see some sorts of improvements.
*sighs*
Yeah, I know I'm being harsh, but forgive me. I pretty much haven't been in a good mood lately.
Takino Tomo-chan - Kimura-sensei why did you become a teacher?
Kimura-sensei - CUZ I LIKE HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS AND STUFF!
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| Grave 548th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(6):Something I heard" , posted Thu 14 Aug 17:37
quote:
Don't underestimate the importanace of even a tiny bit like this. Profanity can and will add feeling to a series, especially Yuu Yuu Hakusho. Adding on, you don't throw a series like this towards kids because this is a teenage series.
This is why I hate the butchering of Yuugioh so much. They make a teen series look real kiddy, when in reality, they're not supposed to be. You want kiddy? Sit down through Pocket Monsters, but even then, people did cuss in that series, including Satoshi. I don't think people will ever see the real Yuugioh here or Pocket Monsters for that matter.
I still think you're nitpicking on the handling of Yuu Yuu Hakusho, but for the Yugioh TV series handling in the US, there's nothing I can say in its favor.
Though, have you seen how Viz handles the manga of both in the US Shonen Jump? That magazine's geared toward a teen market, and their translations aren't always "soft." I was actually shocked by Yugioh at first, how sadistic of a character Yugi can be. Really cool stuff...
Though, no translation is going to please everyone. You just gotta relax sometimes and let it go, I think. No use getting your blood pressure up over it... it's okay to let yourself enjoy something that might not be 100% perfect.
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| DarkZero
214th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(7):Something I heard" , posted Thu 14 Aug 19:07:
Actually, my criticism of Funimation had nothing to do with their DVDs. It had to do with their TV broadcasts. When they send a show to Cartoon Network, they edit it themselves, including the Adult Swim versions. This results in a TV broadcast that is edited down to a Kids' WB level and thus acts as nothing more than a demo for their DVDs. Synch Point and Bandai, on the other hand, have broadcast FLCL and Big O (respectively) on Adult Swim completely unedited, even though similar scenes in FLCL and Blue Gender have resulted in the Blue Gender scene being cut and FLCL scene being left intact. This is in spite of the fact that Funimation, Synch Point, and Bandai are all getting similar amounts of money for their Adult Swim series, which means that Funimation is essentially ripping the viewers (and CN) off and everyone else isn't.
The same, to some degree, can apply to Yu Yu Hakusho. YYH is edited by Funimation more intensely than CN requires. Worse, they intentionally make the edits ridiculous, such as changing "kick the crap out of you" to "kick the patootie out of you", just to underscore the fact that the Toonami broadcast is edited and their DVDs are not.
Tokyopop is, of course, far worse, but the point I was making was that I thought it was strange that any Japanese companies would do business with low quality translation companies when there are a lot of companies that could treat their material a lot better overall.
[this message was edited by DarkZero on Thu 14 Aug 19:08] |
| Satoshi_Miwa 2333th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(6):Something I heard" , posted Thu 14 Aug 22:35
quote:
Oh! Kyou has a dub actor of a Canadian who spent six months in Texas (if I recall) and Touru is yet another Valley girl! Yay!
Like I said, no all-around good series has been released yet by the group, though yeah, I see some sorts of improvements.
*sighs*
Yeah, I know I'm being harsh, but forgive me. I pretty much haven't been in a good mood lately.
*shurg* I don't watch the dubs on any of the DVD's I buy, so I can't comment on that.
But the sub was good, video quality was excellent, and they have nice extras. I don't really need more than that...
Dub quality is an issue I just don't get into. One cause I don't really care for dubs, and 2 (mostly because of 1) I really can't fairly judge them. I'll hold a cast up to the Japanese one and other factors that aren't really fair in judging dub quality...
Separated at Birth?
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| DarkZero
215th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(9):Something I heard" , posted Fri 15 Aug 00:50
quote:
Like who? Studio Proteus, which still clings to it's monthly comic format and high GN prices. 32 pages at 2.95 a month is a stretch, even if I like Oh My Goddess.
Hey, Tokyopop should be dragged over the coals for the job with Inital D but don't forget their other manga and anime projects are pretty decent. And without their switch to the GN format most manga would still be in the monthly US comic format, instead of the nicely priced 180 page GN format (And with good turn around time). So let's not forget the good as we condemn the bad (something a lot of anime fans do tend to do...).
Actually it was Lone Wolf & Cub that pioneered the move toward graphic novels instead of monthly comics, not Tokyopop. Lone Wolf & Cub GN#1 came out in September 2000, while Tokyopop was still doing monthly Gundam Wing comics in October 2001, which was the usual way that their manga was released at that time. Also, their past manga projects have not been decent. I haven't checked their Gundam manga in about a year to a year and a half, but last I checked, they were pathetic. They had a horrible translation, horrible grammar, and a font that looked so out of place that you'd think it was physically pasted onto the page by a kindergartner. And now, in place of that, they change their manga intentionally, rather than out of ineptitude, and with no proper release as a secondary product. The result is that Initial D is actually being treated worse than Yu-Gi-Oh, because, AFAIK, Yu-Gi-Oh at least has an unedited manga release to go along with its edited dub.
They also release some of their longer anime series with only three episodes per disc, such as Saint Tail and now Initial D, and Saint Tail became a complete mess. There was a full year between the release of the fifth DVD and the release of the last three. The English dub was also abruptly cancelled on the last three. And all of that occurred just THREE MONTHS ago.
So yeah. They edit their anime and improperly release it, they find one way or another to make sure that their manga doesn't stay untouched... but at least it's cheap and comes in bulk. Well, except for Initial D and the first few Saint Tail DVDs, which are more expensive than just about any other anime because of the episode count.
Everything that I've heard about their release of GTO has been very positive, but it seems to be the exception, not the rule, and it's not as if it's something worthy of commendation or anything. It's a 40+ episode anime series being released with 5 episodes on each disc and a solid translation. That's the industry norm right now for all but the most expensive licensed anime (FLCL, Blue Sub No. 6, etc.).
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| DKW
236th Post
Frequent Customer
| "And the follow-up!" , posted Fri 15 Aug 01:24
Dammit, I like nicknames. Add a bit of color to characters that aren't the easiest to identify with. Let's not forget that this is a game, too, and Sega isn't big on unwieldly names. (Go ahead, tell them to put "Koichiro Iketani" or "Ryosuke Takahashi" on a mainstream American arcade racing game. Don't get me started on "Daiki"...ugh.)
I agree that there have been some minor mistakes (I can tell that they got a lot of people working on each volume, and the coordination between them isn't the best), but it's been horribly blown out of proportion by the ultra-mega-hardcore fanatics (who rival the Beatmania IIDX ultra-mega-hardcore fanatics in sheer irritation factor). Okay, so they made a mistake ONCE about associating a rotary engine with "pistons". Not that I ever found it, but duly noted. Corrected at the end of volume 7. But to hear some of them talk, it was the end of the freaking universe. And typos, let's not forget typos. Sign of carelessness, yes. Wish they weren't there, yes. To hear some talk about it, you'd think K.T. had murdered Ry.
Anyway, yes, there are valid beefs, and yes, the anime probably stinks. But we have to make a distinction between changes that are a bad idea period and incredibly minor inconsistencies that "violate the Japanese purity" or whatever that just aren't worth getting all riled up about.
(I ask this again: Since Tokyopop is obviously marketing Intial D, like all their other manga, to people who have not read the original manga, why would anyone who has read the original manga have a problem? Are there really that many incredibly nitpicky bilingual racing manga fans?)
I saw Viz pull the plug on Fist of the North Star for who knows what reason. This was one of the most powerful, riveting mangas I'd read in my life, and it really, really hurt to see it discontinued. (Thankfully, Raijin Comics has picked it up...#6 finally takes it past the Viz run.) The last thing I want is any possibility of Initial D, an outstanding series that thus far has had me waiting eagerly for each new volume, end because of a bunch of intolerant super-hardcore fans who couldn't let someone who just wanted a damn fine story have it. I'm afraid this anime blunder just gives them more ammunition.
Seriously, I don't care who does it or how they try to make it marketable, just don't stop the manga. Please, dammit.
homepage - http://home.hawaii.rr.com/dkwff
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| Hungrywolf 2207th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(3):crappy tokyopop initial D dvd reviewed" , posted Fri 15 Aug 12:30
quote:
It's funny that people praise TP's mangas, like Love Hina and Chobits. They mess up with the translation, re-writing stuff in those too. GTO had censoring too.
People at toriyamaworld.com used to have a lot of fun with the ammount of crap TP comes up with.
Not to mention the awful touch-ups and overlaying, where you can even tell the tools they used (in Photoshop).
It's really, really sad. Can't these people enjoy ANYTHING without bitching about it? The censoring in GTO has never bothered me. It's a great story and it's largely uncomprimised. I have fun reading it every time a new volume comes out. So what if it's not exactly the same? Who gives a shit? Obviously, I don't.
I think people would have a much better time if they could stop nitpicking and enjoy things for what they are, rather than curse the company and demand something else.
For the record, I feel Chobits reads pretty well, too.
I'm with you on that, Grave. I think it's been said but I'll say it again, I don't know why people who have gotten to read the manga in it's original translation have to complain about the English translation if they have already gotten it. Or why people who only watch subs complain about dubs.
"You're good baby I'll give you that.....but me? I'm magic!"
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Hungry Like the Wolf
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