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|  "Objective Opinions on SVC Chaos"
, posted Sun 27 Jul 03:21
What's up all? I'm new around here but I've been a fan of Madman's Cafe for many years and I've been lurking in this board for a while now.
I just wanted to point you towards the many unbiased and often very positive reviews regarding the gameplay of SVC Chaos. Also an arcade close to just got it and I love this game.
As for Buktooth, he's not exactly an unbiased source of information IMO.
Anyway here are some review links.
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36664
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36680&perpage=15&pagenumber=2
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36574&perpage=&pagenumber=4
http://www.snk-capcom.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1521
CTF just got SVC today......many ppl were there.......among the many things i heard today were:
"Sanford, pick Sagat"
"What the fu*ck is that shit , put 3S back in."
"This game is garbage"
"Vega doesn't have a slide, wtf is that?"
But I liked the game.
From what i noticed, Kyo has a type of corner trap....its like down fierce xx qcf rh...its not exactly a trap but its hard to get out of and it could be comboed into either.....forward +fierce xx hcb+ rh i think. I saw some freaky shit....
Sagat is a beast
Akuma looks goofy , but might be useful
Ryu wasn't doing too well
Ken, i think could be really good
Shiki is a beast
Iori is a beast
Balrog could be really good if played right
Guile is a little slow......nobody had problems with the charges
Dhalsim was used alot:.........
A) St. jab is an AA
B) some block strings i saw were ....st. jab, back +fierce, fireball
.... st. jab, down fierce, fireball
Kim was fast and has good pokes......u can combo qcf x2 +k xx qcb,hcf +K supers.
Bison's really good
Also , like cvs2, lvl3's go through pokes and all that.
I know im forgeting chars. if anybody from NY or if anyone has questions ,,,,post.
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Wow, it never ceases to amaze me how many people will judge something without playing it.
First off, charge moves are NOT fucked up. I have NO problem doing them, nor do ANY of the player's up at More. Maybe you need better sticks.
Second, dash cancelling guard is NOT easy.
The game does keep you in forced guard stun, so it is easy to dash through multi-hit combos. Unfortunately, it's JUST an invincible version of your regular dash. And dashs are fast. Which means you DON'T have time for a lot of things. I've NEVER seen someone dash cancel into a super, at most they get a couple of shorts or a knock down.
The hard thing is, dash cancelling single hit moves without using a full meter is next to impossible. And some moves are pretty safe, like the hop kick. It puts you in guard stun, and then it finishes. Your guard stun ends, and then it starts up again. The priority means it'll probably trade you hits, and it doesn't keep you in guard stun long enough to dash out. All you can do is button cancel dash, or AC. What's so broken there?
Dash cancelling can only be done when being attacked, and it's typically only to punish player's for being stupid or to escape corners. There's nothing wrong with that, especially not on a grand scale. They don't break the game. They do influence it.
Cable's x3 AHVB influences the way MvC2 is played, so does V-ism in A3, and bursts in GGXX. So many people are ready to jump on how broken DCing is when no one really knows anything about it.
The game is FUN people, good god. Weither is dogging on the four buttons, to saying how 'this is broken' and 'this is broken', you people are doing nothing but bitching. Don't play the game. Please. I'm in a great scene, I'm going to enjoy it regardless. But if you don't fucking like something, don't like it in silence, or at least have solid information instead of just hear-say bitching.
So far, the game seems VERY balanced, which char's people thought would suck still pulling wins against 'top tier'. The dash canceling even's the tiers out, what seems to make or break the game is a good cross up that's linkable into a super. THAT is what's made the biggest difference in this game.
Iori and Kyo are "#1" because they can cross you up into 1/4th life or more.
I'm frustrated, reading these posts after Buk's was like stabbing myself in the face. It's obvious to me Buk's sticks are fucked up, not his fault. It works FINE on mine. Maybe it was ment to be played on a japanese lollipop stick? Who knows, but the game design is fucking fine.
Get off SNK's nuts.
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current tier 1: Iori, Kyo, Tabasa
Tier 2: Shiki, Kim, shoto's.
That's about how it looks right now, Tabasa is a dirty fucking whore.
Ryo deals out MASSIVE amounts of damage.
Chun Li's super's seem to have no start up time, ESPECIALLY her kick one. Plus her C is the shizzle.
B seems to be Sagat's new ground poke of choice, while D is the air poke.
Kim seems to kind of beast on Chun, but lose out to Ryu.
Ryu's hop kick is fucking annoying, because all I've been able to do is alpha cancel that shit. Every now and again I can poke him out of it. Rarely.
People who complained about dragon punchs... Fuck you man. Tabasa's knife thing is killer, Shiki's is 2good, ryu and ken can STILL stop almost ANY jump in.
The only anti-air's that are ass are Kim's flash kick thing and Sagat's uppercut.
Chun's kick super is safe unless alpha cancelled or dash stepped.
Bad news about Tabasa is she can't duck Sagat's high fireball, which just means Sagat can really pin her down.
Tabasa is a BEAST if you don't have a fireball, and even then she's tough. I saw Sagat beat her a few times, Shiki once. That is all.
Shiki's lvl3 is nice, it teleports and grabs. Mmm. Her b&b is nice too. It's like, j.a or j.c, land, a, a, a or 6a, 6a, 6a, or a special move three times. I just know she swings her swords twice really fast, six times. Then she does her dash super. Takes off a good sized chunk.
I want to say Kim is tier 1, because I play him, but his lack of good anti air and projectile are SUCKING. He has not BAD match-ups though, except maybe Tabasa, and even that's close. He's upper 2 tier if not first, and he's REALLY good.
PS: No one here plays Dhal or Choi. Why the hate?
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I beg to differ. Throws are good in this game and deals a good amount of damage. It's almost like 3S but you'll have a 50% chance of getting out of it and you'll have to be point blank (which isn't hard cuz of dashes). Dash into throws are so easy to do.
I think most people that complaint about throws being weak are the ones that don't know how to throw. There's just longer stun time in this game, so trying to tick throw is a tad harder.
But yeah, GroundStepCancel breaks the game, but they're not that invincible; you can hit them while they're dashing. I've done it lots of time. But it's just stupid to always play like that, trying to lure people to do GSC. So all I be doing is poke and throw (just like 3S). The game would have been much better if GSC takes up 1/2 a Super or a full Super like if you were to do it with the BC buttons.
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And now, a theory on why whiffing throws causes meter loss.
(From the same person who theorized that Gief lost his SPD range in CvS2 in order to prevent him from having the "tech hit = free SPD" strategy from CvS1.)
If throws are a two button motion, then one can theoretically whiff a throw anywhere on the screen. Back in SFA3, for a good number of V-ism characters, this became the best meter building strategy in the game, being fast and difficult to punish. SNK might have implemented this otherwise stupid rule to make sure that people hit the throw buttons with intent to throw.
As for lousy throw range, I've been in favor of the idea since SFA3. In my opinion, throws should be a method to punish turtles and people who use otherwise invincible moves (like rolls and dash cancels). Attacks should ALWAYS be able to stop throw attempts. Otherwise, the RPS (attack, block/roll/counter, throw) is flawed. (No, I've never played Dead or Alive 3.)
My final decision on whether this system works will be based on if people can effectively throw dashers and dash cancellers. Not that it matters, since it doesn't look like I'll be able to play this game at any time in my life.
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hmmm...you get bar REAL easy; but you lose bar whiffing a throw - I don't see the problem with that. And with the constant dancing around with the dashes, cancels etc. and a lot of losing bar rubbish, I think they had the idea that the game system be kept in motion, but you were gonna have to sacrifice a few things to eventually use a super - but if you get bar REAL quick; then that's another story altogether.
You should never really dash with Chun-Li anyway; I found her forward dash to be worthless in 3s; though her backdash is OK - only use forwarddashes to beat those pesky cross-ups. And with that range she has - who needs dashes?
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And I'm a bit confused by mixed reports. Iori and Kyo are dominating with heavy rushdown, but everyone's paranoid about guard-cancelling giving turtles too much power. Seems inconsistent.
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He got 30 god damn wins with Dhalism alone. My god, it was a surprise when Shiki hit him with that super though, that's fucked up.
I gave it a try or two, and it doesn't seem that bad. With the lack of a small jump though I can see Dhal being big as the game develops. I still like King of Fighter's better.
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Okay.....today Justin Wong got about 55 wins , not in a row ...he lost once in between........it would've been 56, but i just added it up.
Top characters used and from what i observed, top chars. in game:
1)Sagat
2)Dhalsim
3)Shiki
4)Balrog- Only saw a few ppl use him but his lvl 3 charged K super is completely safe from getting countered once blocked.
5)Kasumi-Pretty good. Good combos and has safe attacks.
6) Kyo
Those are the only chars. i've seen played and actually won.
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dude, i was just playing it for the first time today and i noticed that too. I kept a guy pinned for like 15 seconds before i screwed up the hop kick. About any bit of lag the hop kick has is overlapped by their blockstun enough for you to land another c hp. There's more i need to learn about the engine, but that could come in handy if it's as effective as it turned out to be today.
Edit: another thing. Is it just me or does Genjuro's hard slash reach like 3/4ths of the way across the screen?
SVC is too fucking random, I cant wait to see people play with the new hidden characters that were discovered...jesus christ.
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Corner trap? There's no such thing when Ground Step Cancel is in the game.
I don't know why everyone thinks Kyo is good.
Anyway, GroundStepCancel pretty much kills any move with a pinch of lag. I wish GSC takes away at least 1/2 a super instead of 1/6.
Vega can slide, I think it's one of his command attacks. Maybe DwnFwd+D or something
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Ryu's hop kick is annoyingly safe vs Kim.
Shiki's bread and butter like, jumping A or C (I didn't DO it, I had it DONE to me four million times), then three sets of this double slash move on the ground. It might be a special, or it might just be here A or 6A. Then her dash in super. That's about that, deals good damage.
Kyo is good because he doesn't lag after his moves, so he's pretty safe. Plus his mix up game is really nice, not to mention he can take 1/4 life in a combo with a reg super. He deals CRAZY damage when in max.
PS: As mentioned, the corner trap doesn't work. You can dash step out, or just Alpha Cancel that shit.
Kim's alpha cancel seems to deal SHIT for damage, I think all alpha cancels do shitty damage, but they knock your opponent way back. It's nice breathing room.
Dhal is crap. Zone with Tabasa, she>tier1
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I saw one player did complain about Earthquake (played dirty and cheated).
His "fart" shot moved very slowly and hit directly to opponent. The opponent jumped over fart shot, then Earthquake started to use whatever (include special power). I think... Earthquake may too powerful and cheated. =/
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Controls: The arcade owner was nice enough to change a new joystick for the 2p side (had some blocking issues), so I was mainly playing on that new stick. Moves come out easily, bufferable just like KoF, and charging isn't nearly as bad as people claim about (I was able to do all the charge moves perfectly from beginning to end). In Exceed mode the controls are very nice as well, it easily distinguishes what you want (I had NO mis-cancel move at all, which is great compare to the some-what twitchy 2k2). The supers are easy to come out, guess SNK gave more leniency than 2k2 (Or maybe because the game is slower and you get more time to input it). Overall feels just like what you expect from SNK. 10/10.
AI: SNK has done it again...it's the greatest SNK AI I've ever encountered. OK, it cheated (No charging for charge characters and abused mid-boss strengths to the extreme), but even the normal characters were able to react with great attacks, combos, Guard cancels, special move cancels, and super cancels. The CPU Iori has Scum galed me numerous times with evil setup (poke poke dash scum) and followed up with combo/super etc. Guile abused his flash kick and flash kick super to the extreme. Vega is almost always hopping around somewhere, and poke at you when in range. All mid-bosses (Except Dan) was a challenge for any casual players. Though there's always AI bug to be exploited...with Capcom Vs. SNK (CAPCOM title), you can use Dhalsim and far standing heavy kick all day long and beat the game. With SNK Vs. Capcom, you can use Shiki's far C (Which is a good range knock down attack) for the same effect. As soon as the CPU landed, walk/dash to the maximum distance allowed for far C, do it as soon as they stand up, and 90% of the time CPU will just get hit and gets knocked down (Don't try this on high priority bosses...Goenitz was able to snuck a few supers during the far C). I've seen a guy cheesed the way to near end. I'd give AI 8/10. Oh, and the setting at the arcade is at 5, not the maximum 8.
GAMEPLAY: At this front, I'm kinda baffled. Due to the lack of roll/run/hop, the system just literally showed the old-school flaws. I was able to use Genjuro, Takuma, and various other fireball/uppercut characters to literally TRAP the big guys in the other side. There was nearly NO WAY for them to get out of this old trap (fast and high fireball, high priority uppercuts....). Even with the guard cancel, who the heck do fireball in close range anyways? So for the big guys, fireball/uppercut nearly spells doom. For the avg characters, the tactic brought back the old "fear." Also, lack of running caused me to lose about a billion chance to retalliate an enemy...I literally had to SWEEP them after a lot of people's super, instead of run-and-combo. Even then some sweeps don't reach...Without hop, the uppercut just became about a billion times better, no matter whose. Now, on to the good points. The characters definitely brought back a fresh feeling for any 2D fighter fans. Every character I played had some change here and there, and is just a lot more enjoyable than almost any of their other versions. Even Iori/Kyo has something new (Which I'll describe in the character portion). The game pace is decent, and allows for some nice rushdowns. The guard-cancel is a very interesting system, as it can REALLY punish the person who is just unleashing a chain of stuff or has a long super. I've been hit by a Shiki player a lot of times due to the Guard Cancel. It's definitely a welcome sight. Although some of the 3rd stock/exceeed/cancel mode is a bit too powerful. When you reach 3 stocks, you can do up to 3(!!!) 1 stock supers for FREE (characters may vary). The cancel system is also very powerful itself, as you can cancel quite a few moves before you cancel it into a super (FREE too) and finish. The meter charges moderately fast, but all the rushdown characters definitely charge the fastest. I remember reaching 3 stocks 4 times in 1 battle (2 rounds) with Iori. Throwing ticks me off...an accidental press of A+B (habit of rolling) and I lose a pretty big grid of power gauge...oh well. The grabbing system is also kind of weird; I've seen a Hugo player doing 360 degree throw all day long in front of an enemy and just keep on missing. No more KOF instant grabs
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Kasumi takes off SHITE loads of damage with just level 1 supers. Iori's rekka's are WAY abuseable with the dashing style of gameplay.
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MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS:
I've played several hours of this game at my local arcade Camelot Golfland. And I must say that I really like it. The game's been out for like 2 days now so I say it's way too early to start bitching. Anyhow, I've heard of or seen almost everyone in this game dominating.
Think about it:
Hugo - 26 game winstreak.
Earthquake - Very dominating.
Dhalsim - 30 something winstreak.
Guile - Very deadly
Bison - Very deadly
Balrog - Very effective in the right hands
Vega - Unknown but he does have his slide
Ryu - Buktooth thinks his #1??
Ken - Many say Ken > Ryu
Akuma - Named as the best shoto by many
Kasumi - Very deadly
As for the rest we all know that they are good already right?:
Chunli, Tabasa, Kyo, Iori, Mai, Sagat, Terry, Ryo, Shiki, Mr. Karate, Kim etc.
Genjuro seems to be weak for now, and we haven't heard much about Choi- but he should be quite effective...
Add in the tons of unlockable bosses...
Some codes floating around already for Zero...
Anyhow, my point is that the game seems VERY balanced, and the gameplay system seems like something that's never been seen before. All the characters from both companies seem to be in their FULL strength.
The system is neither KOF nor SF. I say it's finally time to duke it out for real.
My only enemy is myself...and my ex-girlfriend and...
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