| Original message ([an error occurred while processing this directive] Views )[an error occurred while processing this directive]
|
Replies:
|
| DarkZero
135th Post
 
Regular Customer
   
|  "Re(4):Attention! PA guys apparently hurting"
, posted Fri 4 Jul 09:06:
quote:
This kind of stuff annoys me since it's really just taking advantage of the fans. Berke Breathed and Bill Waterson could have spent 10 minutes pumping out pencil sketches and selling them for huge profits (more than this easily), but they had too much dignity to lower themselves to that level.
It's not like this is an actual strip or a cel used in an animated show. The guy is obviously just cashing in on the name of his strip.
They're "lowering themselves to that level" because they don't have the funds to make their usual appearance at the San Diego Comic Con, where they spend the entire con sitting in a little booth drawing sketches, signing autographs, and taking questions. Vaz from Under Power is trying to do the exact same thing and Pete Abrams from Sluggy Freelance and David Willis from It's Walky do the same thing just to pay the bills.
And of course Berke Breathed and Bill Waterson wouldn't do this. Their comics are supported by newspaper syndications that give them generous salaries. Most of these web comics are just supported by fan donations and merchandise, with the lone exception of Penny Arcade making a one-comic-per-month appearance in Official PlayStation Magazine. Then again, I'm kinda doubting that either Berke Breathed or Bill Waterson take over an arcade once a month and give a few hundred fans a free gaming party.
EDIT: Just a quick note, here. They aren't selling an "actual strip" because there is no such thing. The guys at Penny Arcade don't draw the comic out on paper and then scan it. It's drawn on a drawing tablet hooked up to a PC, so the only "original sketch" of the strip is a .png in Photoshop. They're not holding back their originals because they don't want to sell them or anything, they just simply don't exist.
[this message was edited by DarkZero on Fri 4 Jul 09:12] |
| Radish 1395th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
   
    
    
| "Re(5):Attention! PA guys apparently hurting" , posted Fri 4 Jul 09:59:
quote:
This kind of stuff annoys me since it's really just taking advantage of the fans. Berke Breathed and Bill Waterson could have spent 10 minutes pumping out pencil sketches and selling them for huge profits (more than this easily), but they had too much dignity to lower themselves to that level.
It's not like this is an actual strip or a cel used in an animated show. The guy is obviously just cashing in on the name of his strip.
They're "lowering themselves to that level" because they don't have the funds to make their usual appearance at the San Diego Comic Con, where they spend the entire con sitting in a little booth drawing sketches, signing autographs, and taking questions. Vaz from Under Power is trying to do the exact same thing and Pete Abrams from Sluggy Freelance and David Willis from It's Walky do the same thing just to pay the bills.
And of course Berke Breathed and Bill Waterson wouldn't do this. Their comics are supported by newspaper syndications that give them generous salaries. Most of these web comics are just supported by fan donations and merchandise, with the lone exception of Penny Arcade making a one-comic-per-month appearance in Official PlayStation Magazine. Then again, I'm kinda doubting that either Berke Breathed or Bill Waterson take over an arcade once a month and give a few hundred fans a free gaming party.
EDIT: Just a quick note, here. They aren't selling an "actual strip" because there is no such thing. The guys at Penny Arcade don't draw the comic out on paper and then scan it. It's drawn on a drawing tablet hooked up to a PC, so the only "original sketch" of the strip is a .png in Photoshop. They're not holding back their originals because they don't want to sell them or anything, they just simply don't exist.
I'm well aware of how Penny Arcade operates, and that they don't make as much as syndicated cartoonists. However that still doesn't make this any less cheasy. These are the guys who slam other web comics for actions they feel cheapen their art.
Asking for fan donations is one thing since I'm sure the bandwidth costs on the site are high and if he's doing this in order to make a profit due to overwhelming server costs I appologize, but selling some sketch for almost a grand (it will probably reach that amount) still seems like a bit much. He certainly is within his rights to do so, but the site has advertisements and they have some book deal (or at least did at one point) in the works so I don't believe the guys are starving.
[this message was edited by Radish on Fri 4 Jul 10:02] |
| Radish 1395th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(7):Attention! PA guys apparently hurting" , posted Fri 4 Jul 10:37
quote:
Asking for fan donations is one thing since I'm sure the bandwidth costs on the site are high and if he's doing this in order to make a profit due to overwhelming server costs I appologize, but selling some sketch for almost a grand (it will probably reach that amount) still seems like a bit much.
Well, he was selling it for 5 dollars :D
(Obviously somebody out there thinks it's worth way more. That's the nature of online auctions, one pays what you think it's worth)
I don't see anything questionable about selling his work for any amount of money at all. It is his work and people are free to choose between purchasing or not purchasing said work. People like his art and the characters and it shows. And if people are willing to pay for his works, why not?
I agree that a thousand is a bit too much, but that's the bidders fault, not the seller.
Yes, I agree on one hand that it's his work to sell and that if he can get a certain price for it, he should go for it. However on the other I think that just because some extreme fans will pay ludicrous amounts of money for something, is it really right to gouge them (not that I really care about them BTW)? People are willing to pay thousands for gum baseball players have chewed, but it wouldn't look so great if they started selling prechewed bubblepop.
Personally if they are hard up for cash I think a better way to make money would be to make posters, books or other promotional items and claim the proceeds would go to the maintanance of the site as well as to help them make a living. This just seems like Gabe wants to buy a new computer and needed a quick way to finance it so he slammed out a sketch. Maybe if this was one of the "E3 Art Sketchbook" originals it would be worth this, but not some random cast shot.
|
| Omar
233th Post
Frequent Customer
|  "Re(10):Attention! PA guys apparently hurting"
, posted Fri 4 Jul 13:51
quote:
I certainly don't think this is a 100% comparable situation, but I believe a more modest way of doing this would be to sell some art from the site at a lower set price instead of making an auction he knew would get to the high hundreds (since the precedent was set by Piro); I'm seen much better art from members of this forum that obviously more time and effort went into and without the "OMG I'm buying something from the PA guy!!" sentiment, there's no way this sketch would garner this many bids.
This reminded me of a coment Mark Evanier said (http://www.povonline.com, great site, BTW)...
My best pal, Sergio Aragonés, once was selling some sketches he'd done. A browser was interested in one but blanched at the hundred-buck price tag.
"How long did it take you to draw that?" he asked.
"About a half-hour," Sergio answered.
The man was horrified: "You expect me to pay you a hundred dollars for a half-hour's work?"
Sergio showed uncommon restraint -- at least for Sergio. He calmly said, "You're not paying for the half-hour it took me to do the drawing. You're paying for the forty-one years it took me to learn how to do that."
I think the same thing is applied to Gabe's art. You are right of course, who would pay 5 dollars for a sketch done by an unknown artist about an unknown comic strip?
However, (this is the good part) whoever wins the auction, he will not be paying the minutes Gabe used while doing the art. He is paying for all the years Penny Arcade has remined consistent and popular, he is paying for all the effort Gabe has invested all these years, wich is not an easy task at all.
And I admit I'm terribly envious of Gabe, or other artists that have sold their work on ebay, like Scot Kurtz or Frank Cho or even Pyro. Their sketchs sold quite good, but that's because they have worked A LOT during the years, never giving up, delivering almost always on time, always improving. This is their reward for their drive to succeed.
And thanks for the meaning of the word gouge! :-) Now that I understand, I can tell you that, as I said before, the sketch is on sale and no one was being forced into purchasing at all. If you like penny arcade, chances are that you might want the sketch, or maybe not.
It's a smart move to put the sketch in a place that will sell better. Why would anyone want to sell something for less? ;-)
"Nothing suits better than a dead man's shirt"
|
| coinop duck
146th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(3):Attention! PA guys apparently hurting" , posted Fri 4 Jul 15:58
quote:
*shrug* A friend of mine paid $700 for a pencil sketch inked in sharpie by Yuu Watase and he still had to fight for it. Besides, Fred Gallagher did two eBay pieces awhile back, both of which sold for over a $1000 if I remeber correctly. Granted, the overal quality of them was a bit better, PA has a larger audience so it evens out.
Oh it'll break the $1000 mark, I'm sure of it. The auction still has 3 days left, and concidering how people typically wait until the end to place their bid there's plenty of time for the price to shoot up even more. A prime example of why the word "fan" is derived from "fanatic".
The Yuu Watase sketch makes a bit more sense because she's a professional, and that's better in a collectible sense. But Fred Gallagher selling for over $1000 is ridiculous, he isn't even professional level. Oh well, it's their money, not mine.
|
| DarkZero
135th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(8):Attention! PA guys apparently hurting" , posted Fri 4 Jul 19:50
quote:
Personally if they are hard up for cash I think a better way to make money would be to make posters, books or other promotional items and claim the proceeds would go to the maintanance of the site as well as to help them make a living. This just seems like Gabe wants to buy a new computer and needed a quick way to finance it so he slammed out a sketch.
From Gabe, this afternoon:
"As I said in the last post the money earned from the auction is going to help pay for our travel to the San Diego comic-con this month. The whole PA crew will be attending this year, including all the wives. We have a very large corner booth this year in an awesome location. We are booth number 3147. We will be there for every single day of the con signing stuff and selling shirts and posters. We don’t have a signing schedule or anything, we will be there all day every day signing whatever you stick in front of us (so long as it does not burn or bite). We will also be unveiling the new and improved Wang Fu T-shirt down there. San Diego will be your first chance to get your hands on this new design. We will also try and have some of our GBA MOD skins available at our booth. Anyway, it’s gonna be a kick ass con so come out and say hi if you can."
"The whole PA crew" should be at least four people (Tycho, Gabe, and their wives), but I'm assuming that it means more like 6+, since that term usually means Gabe, Tycho, Batjew, Safety Monkey, and Kiko, and then Gabe added "including all the wives". Also, they have tried posters and promotional items, but unfortunately their store has run into repeated problems for two months straight and everything from the old store (Gameskins) was already sent to the new store's stock. They probably intended for the store to pay for the trip, but since the store is not there, they are doing the whole auction thing.
Besides that, though, I think it's just a matter of personal feeling. I don't see how a transaction between someone selling something and a fan of theirs buying it for a large amount of money lacks dignity or is "taking advantage" of the fan unless the fan is legally retarded. They want it, they want to pay a certain amount for it, they pay that amount and they get it. It's not being sold under false pretenses and it's not being sold for an amount of money set by the seller. The proceeds are also being solely devoted to going to a con where they will sit at their booth giving autographs and drawing sketches for like twelve hours a day, so any amount being given to them by a fan is going straight back to a bunch of other fans.
I also don't think it's going to end poorly. The bids have been mostly incremental and the auction will probably turn out just like Piro's; the first and maybe second high bidders will be fake, but Gabe will just move down the line and give it to the first legitimate person in the bid history. That's how large eBay auctions like this work.
|
| Grave 400th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(2):Attention! PA guys apparently hurting" , posted Fri 4 Jul 20:55
quote:
oh no, some internet comic guys are hurting for money!!! /sarcasm
if their comics werent based on games, then nobody would really give a damn. if they need money, they can just go get jobs that dont involve sarcastic reviews of american games and overly flamboyant disentaries(sp?) on why the industry sucks.
But they're not going to do that. Because it just so happens that the comics are based on games, you know, that whole annoying little "subject matter" thing that every comic has. And it seems what they're doing works out for them, and yes, their fans are willing to shell out for a piece of Gabe's artwork. And people seem to generally enjoy what Tycho and Gabe say on the news pages in terms of current events in gaming and otherwise, and guess what? Every time I've emailed one of them, I got a polite, well-worded response. I'm not sure what your animosity towards PA is.
Or maybe you wish you could nail $700+ on a piece of artwork, or could voice your opinions in a place where people will listen and discuss them with you.
Seriously, they're both cool guys, and I like to read what Tycho writes, and I love the comic. I do enjoy Gabe's art, but hah, not as much as some people do, apparently. The guys give us 3 comics a week and they're not profiting from that alone. People have already discussed how they're working on turning a profit, so I won't go into it. But the fans aren't being deceived in any way. They want merchandise, PA gives it to them, so they're "bad" for trying to "extort" from people?
Nah. That's bullshit.
I honestly don't see what the point of this post was. So I'm good with a hammer and nails, and a soldering iron. When I build something for somebody or fix their electronics for a fee, is it wrong, because that's not part of my job and I'm profiting from it?
I just don't get the POV that this is wrong. So I'm going to stop writing now.
|
| Radish 1402th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(2):Attention! PA guys apparently hurting" , posted Sat 5 Jul 07:27:
quote:
I'm guessing Radish doesn't understand the comic industry. Sometimes I don't either. I think once somebody auctioned off a piece of toilet paper that Stan Lee doodled (ahem, DREW) on for nearly 100 dollars. And that's a BARGAIN.
And it's no coincidence that Todd McFarlane was the guy who was willing to pay that much for Mark McGuire's baseball. It's because he's in comics.
Did Stan Lee sell this or did some guy who got a hold of it?
Some people here are getting way too bent out of shape over this critisim. Once again, I'm not saying he shouldn't do this, but it does seem cheasy to me. If you think it's fine, good for you. It's not like Gabe gives a shit what I think or even knows who I am. These are the guys who bitch when Illiad from User Friendly whores out his comic strip so I'm sure they could take critisicm if they cared what some annonymous person on the internet thinks about them. If he believes his art is worth upwards of 8 hundred dollars then it's his right to sell it for that cost.
And when he started the bidding at $5 we all know that this thing was not going to end of $35.
quote:
youre really hurting if this is the way you feel abou PA. they provide a service FOR FREE to anyone and everyone who wants to access it. they are funny. they are talented. they are smart. the two main operators of PA neither consistently declare that the industry "sucks" nor are their reviews overly sarcastic. it is one thing to be envious of success. it is another to be bitter.
i have a hard time understanding how selling one's art for ANY price could ever be considered "gouging" a fan. under your definition of gouging, any sale of anything that you disagree with the price for, is gouging. is the sale of any artists' artwork legitimate? can it ever be for a "fair" price in your eyes?
if youre just envious and the original post was just a result of that - i understand. i truly do. i think i am objectively a better artist than gabe. but there is no way i can sell my work for anything close to that price. and somewhere in my unenlightened heart of hearts, i hate him for that. however i applaud his efforts to earn a living through his art and to charge as much as he can for it. if he can create $1000 worth of value to someone else with just a sketch, he's adding much more to this world than you or i.
I'm pretty much done with this thread since I just thought the concept of selling a PA sketch for almost $1000 was funny. However please don't start down the "You only complain because you wish you were them" route. That's just stupid. And also art has a price. That is usually set by how much people are willing to pay or by the historical significance it holds. Clearly the market has shown that PA doodles are worth a grand to certain people.
My overall "point" is that just because someone can charge a high price for something, should they? Clearly I'm in the minority when I think that they shouldn't. Obviously he should make money off his work but I just think it'd be better to sell it for a set price like a previous poster said about his artist friend instead of letting a few extreme fans fight it out to see who could pay the most for it.
I think some of us are arguing over what a "fair" price for art is which is highly debatable. I guess we can agree to disagree on this.
[this message was edited by Radish on Sat 5 Jul 07:42] |
|
|
so I'm sure I would be good at Hitman 2."
