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| DarkZero
129th Post
 
Regular Customer
   
|  "Re(2):Anyone playing Unlimited Saga?"
, posted Tue 1 Jul 17:44
quote:
Almost every review I've read has really ripped into it. I think I'll probably give it a rent eventually to see for myself though.
I was sort of interested in it until EGM, a magazine whose reviews I've agreed with 80-90% of the time, gave it a score just above Mortal Kombat Advance's and slightly below Enter The Matrix's. They ripped into it savagely, saying that there was absolutely nothing redeemable in it, and at one point they referred to it as... I believe it was "this ugly pig of a game", inbetween less offbeat insults. I've seen them really go to town on some games, especially budget titles and games that squandered their premise (Disaster Report), but their review of Unlimited Saga was especially cruel.
I'd be interested in hearing more from people that have actually played the game. The game's systems sounded pretty interesting when I read them before that, and I could sort of see where some of them went wrong from EGM's review, such as the slot machine-like attack system making battles too random, but they didn't really go far enough into what was actually wrong with it. There wasn't really anything wrong with the review, but they took the position that there was nothing good about it, whereas I was more interested in what was actually wrong with it, since I knew about the battle system and such beforehand.
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| Grave 388th Post
Silver Customer
  
| "Re(3):Anyone playing Unlimited Saga?" , posted Tue 1 Jul 18:08
quote:
I was sort of interested in it until EGM, a magazine whose reviews I've agreed with 80-90% of the time, gave it a score just above Mortal Kombat Advance's and slightly below Enter The Matrix's. They ripped into it savagely, saying that there was absolutely nothing redeemable in it, and at one point they referred to it as... I believe it was "this ugly pig of a game", inbetween less offbeat insults. I've seen them really go to town on some games, especially budget titles and games that squandered their premise (Disaster Report), but their review of Unlimited Saga was especially cruel.
I'd be interested in hearing more from people that have actually played the game. The game's systems sounded pretty interesting when I read them before that, and I could sort of see where some of them went wrong from EGM's review, such as the slot machine-like attack system making battles too random, but they didn't really go far enough into what was actually wrong with it. There wasn't really anything wrong with the review, but they took the position that there was nothing good about it, whereas I was more interested in what was actually wrong with it, since I knew about the battle system and such beforehand.
The hatred for this game is almost insane-sounding in some places. The employees at the local EB speak venomously about it, as if it all evil stems forth from it, including but not limited to: AIDS, cancer, the Holocaust, World War II, pollution, etc. Their opinions don't weigh too heavily with me, but a friend of mine, the only person I know who likes SaGa Frontier more than I did, loves the game, so I'm going to give it a shot. My taste in RPGs tends to be very different from the mainstream. That is, I loved Grandia II to the point of near-fanaticism, and I thought Final Fantasy X was weak. So maybe I'll dig it.. but I'm waiting to pass judgement myself.
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| KTallguy
73th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Ask me questions about U-Saga if you like!" , posted Tue 1 Jul 22:24:
Ok... the main reason why those magazines are ripping on it is because the game is REALLY complex, the manual sucks, and a lot of the information you NEED to play the game is really difficult to find.
There is no tutorial of any kind. It just throws you right in there. And on top of that, it's INSANELY HARD. It's one of those games that assumes you know what you're doing, and screws you. And even if you KNOW what you're doing, it's still really hard.
That difficulty attracts me to the game... let me see what else I can explain.
The 'reel' that is used on the field map and in battles is kind of like a 'controllable random' element. For example, you'll move into a trap, and then the reel will spin. Depending on the character's attributes you'll have so many 'safe' spaces to land on, but there are two types of 'bad' spaces, a bad one and a even worse one. One thing I'm sure EGM bitched about is the whole thing where the reel will not always stop when you press X, it'll skip two spaces and then stop, etc etc. It makes things harder and you never quite feel 'safe'. Which I kind of like.
I could go on and on about this game, it's really THAT complex. For sake of saving all of you time, I'll just say that it's a little like Zork, an old text based PC game, but much more complex and with very pretty graphics!
I'm thinking about writing a faq on this game, just compiling all the information for new players. =P If anyone has any questions feel free to let me know. I'm only about four hours in though.
[this message was edited by KTallguy on Wed 2 Jul 00:01] |
| DarkZero
130th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(4):Anyone playing Unlimited Saga?" , posted Wed 2 Jul 00:31
quote:
My taste in RPGs tends to be very different from the mainstream. That is, I loved Grandia II to the point of near-fanaticism, and I thought Final Fantasy X was weak. So maybe I'll dig it.. but I'm waiting to pass judgement myself.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on it when you play the game, then, because my opinion of Final Fantasy X was pretty much the same. When I had a party composed of Tidus, Auron, and Clone Auron (Kimahri with almost nothing but Auron skills) with Haste on for 100% of every battle smacking everything around, with nothing involving the other characters except an occasional cameo from Yuna to cast Cure on undead enemies and make their goddamn health go up instead of killing them, roughly twenty hours into the game, I knew I was playing a bad game.
KTallguy:
quote:
The 'reel' that is used on the field map and in battles is kind of like a 'controllable random' element. For example, you'll move into a trap, and then the reel will spin. Depending on the character's attributes you'll have so many 'safe' spaces to land on, but there are two types of 'bad' spaces, a bad one and a even worse one. One thing I'm sure EGM bitched about is the whole thing where the reel will not always stop when you press X, it'll skip two spaces and then stop, etc etc. It makes things harder and you never quite feel 'safe'. Which I kind of like.
Well, my first question is what exactly the wheel can strike upon. It can't just be "hit", "miss", and "crit strike" with the ratios set to the usual 90%/5%/5% or so, since that would be nothing more than a visual representation of the random element that's present in every action in every RPG. EGM didn't mention the part about the delay in the wheel, but instead seemed more concerned with the fact that it added a huge random element to the game, inferring that that nullified the tactical end of the gameplay. I'm assuming that that can't be too far off the mark, since everything but Death spells are perfectly accurate 90% of the time in RPGs, and in order for the reel to be interesting, it would have to increase your chances of failing certain things.
Also, is it true that you use menus to go between areas instead of walking through a connecting area like the roads in FFX or using a vehicle on a world map? What EGM seemed to describe for that was something sort of like the newest Yu-Gi-Oh GBA game, where the presentation outside of the battle system is menu driven and rather bland, but the battle system really shines... except in Unlimited Saga's case, they claim that the battle system does not make up for the presentation.
And about the "bland presentation" though... I know about the painted backgrounds and the beautiful sprites and such. What I'm asking about is if it looks like they skipped over things, like giving you a screen full of various locations to go to instead of an airship on a minimap, or the game skipping you around between areas like the parts of Xenogears' second disc that would occasionally drop you right into a dungeon and then throw you somewhere else when you were done without travelling or anything.
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| KTallguy
74th Post
Occasional Customer
| "More information on the game." , posted Wed 2 Jul 01:39:
quote:
Well, my first question is what exactly the wheel can strike upon. It can't just be "hit", "miss", and "crit strike" with the ratios set to the usual 90%/5%/5% or so, since that would be nothing more than a visual representation of the random element that's present in every action in every RPG. EGM didn't mention the part about the delay in the wheel, but instead seemed more concerned with the fact that it added a huge random element to the game, inferring that that nullified the tactical end of the gameplay. I'm assuming that that can't be too far off the mark, since everything but Death spells are perfectly accurate 90% of the time in RPGs, and in order for the reel to be interesting, it would have to increase your chances of failing certain things.
Well.. lets see... I think I'll dive deeper into this =)
To make things easier, I'll be referring to pictures from the http://rpgfan.com / unlimited saga section... I'll tell you the Picture # when it becomes relevant.
The wheel that is used for things in 'the field' (IE, not in battle or in town) has three icons on it only. The first icon is a green circle which represents success. The second is a red X which represents failure. The third is a yellow dynamite icon which represents critical failure.
Lets say you're moving (I'll explain that later) and you hit a trap. One of the characters in your party (I think it's random which character), will come up and say 'Oh Crap,' or something to that effect. Then the reel will spin. Depending on the level of the trap (like character levels), and *possibly* that particular character's attributes and stats, there will be more Xs or dynamites than safe green circles, or vice versa. Hitting a green circle will have you escape the trap with no damage. The red X will cause the trap to inflict a bit of damage on the character, usually just HP. Finally, the dynamite will usually take about half of your HP and maybe 1 or 2 LP. (There are ways to heal those wounds as well... I'll get to that later)
In battle the reel is VERY different(and it always stops wherever you press, thank god!) The reel can basically represent two things: the level of the attack you are about to perform, or the element influence of magic you are about to use. In U-Saga, characters learn weapon specific skills in battle. Each weapon has 2-5 different attacks, which are selectable in the menu when you tell your character to attack. Then, each of these attacks have 5 levels. When a lightbulb pops above your head, your character has just learned a higher level skill for the attack they are about to perform(the higher level attack is completely different looking and has a unique name). Lets say Laura is using a dagger to attack, and uses the quick stab attack against an enemy. FLASH, a lightbulb appears over her head, and she performs a flashier, stronger version of the attack(a higher level attack). From then on, Laura can perform that level of attack on any dagger with the quick stab option. However, to perform this attack, the player has to hit the 'level 2' icon on the reel.
In the beginning of the game, when you are done telling all your characters what to do, they attack, and the reel pops up. However, the reel will only have green attack icons on it, which all represent level one attacks. When Laura learns her level 2 version, suddenly blue spots pop up on the reel. The amount of blue spots depends on her skill set and if she has any 'panels' for that particular weapon. The more panels, the more blue icons. Basically, in order to do the stronger, more damaging version of the attack, you need to hit the blue icons. Each level of attack has different colors on the reel, so you really have to time it to hit the attack you want.
(whew... ok, on to the next part)
quote:
Also, is it true that you use menus to go between areas instead of walking through a connecting area like the roads in FFX or using a vehicle on a world map? What EGM seemed to describe for that was something sort of like the newest Yu-Gi-Oh GBA game, where the presentation outside of the battle system is menu driven and rather bland, but the battle system really shines... except in Unlimited Saga's case, they claim that the battle system does not make up for the presentation.
Bland isn't really the word for the 'Field', or basically the map where you move around. It's simply 'different'.
On the field, you do all your moving around in an environment that is not the world map(cave, forest, etc). The first thing to note is that you don't just point your analogue stick and move in that direction. A single chess piece like icon represents your party, which is displayed on a colorful map representation.
Find this picture (Japanese section, 1st page) http://rpgfan.com/pics/unlimited-saga/ss-008.jpg
Looking at this picture, on the right you see the chess like icon and the map. On the left you see a beautiful illustration of the area that you are in. Above it is the name of the location.
On the 'field', you have a variety of options. If there is a spot on the map to move to (which there has to be), a small box (with either the name of the space[if you've visited it already]or ????)will be in one of the 8 directions relative to your character. Pressing the analogue stick in it's direction will light up the box. After it's hilighted for about a second, you will move to that location (the animation is of your chess piece hopping to the space).
When you land in a space, there can be traps that may or may not be set off, monsters that may or may not attack you, items, obstacles, or other things to interact with.
If you land in a space with a monster, it may attack you, sending you into battle. If you land and it doesn't attack you, you can attack it manually, or use the skill 'diplomacy' to try and send the monster away(When using some skills, or interacting with some parts of the environment, you use the reel with the same icons as traps, and with similar outcomes).
If you see an item on the space, you can manually pick it up. There is no auto pickup of items. Treasure chests are almost always trapped and locked. That means that to open it, you should first disarm the trap if you have the appropriate skill, then try to pick the lock, or even kick it open. (Physical force can sometimes break the objects inside though).
Field Recovery: On the field, you can heal at anytime by pressing R3 or L3. Depending on the character's recovery grade, he'll get some HP back, but to recover LP you have to return to town.
HP and LP: HP is more like stamina than your real life. You use HP to attack. Depending on the attack it costs more or less HP to use. HP can be recovered in different ways, like resting in battle, or field recovery.
LP is your true "life points". LP is basically your characters true health. Your total LP never goes up in the entire game, but your buffer, or HP does. When you have low/no HP, you aren't dead, but LP will typically go down more often. Keep in mind that LP goes down 1 or 2 points max when something attacks you. And most characters have anything from 8-20 LP.
Typically, you need to get rid of most of the enemies HP to hit their LP and kill them. However, certain attacks can hurt LP even if there's some HP left. Vice versa for enemies, of course.
The main thing to remember is that every single action, whether you're moving, using a skill, recovering, starting a fight, etc, takes a turn. Main quests don't have turn limits, but side quests do! So if you run out, you go back to town =P
quote:
And about the "bland presentation" though... I know about the painted backgrounds and the beautiful sprites and such. What I'm asking about is if it looks like they skipped over things, like giving you a screen full of various locations to go to instead of an airship on a minimap, or the game skipping you around between areas like the parts of Xenogears' second disc that would occasionally drop you right into a dungeon and then throw you somewhere else when you were done without travelling or anything.
There is no physical walking around in this game... ever. No airship, no nothing. When you're not on the field or in battle, you're in a town or on the world map. You move on those with simple point and click.
The story can be vague at times, and sparse at others, but from what I've seen, it's intriguing. The side-quests (an important way to gain new skill panels), have funny little encapsuled stories although they aren't usually related to the main story.
They haven't 'dropped' me anywhere where I didn't know what I was doing though =P
Anyway, this is pretty long, and I'm exhausted from writing. I know this isn't a perfect document and there are probably little things that are unclear. Just let me know what questions you have and I'll do my best to answer ! =)
On a side note, all these bad reviews are because people played this game for one hour and couldn't figure it out. Once you figure out the system, it's REALLY rewarding. Talking about it makes me want to go play it ! =)
[this message was edited by KTallguy on Wed 2 Jul 08:40] |
| DarkZero
132th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(1):More information on the game." , posted Thu 3 Jul 19:18
quote:
Anyway, this is pretty long, and I'm exhausted from writing. I know this isn't a perfect document and there are probably little things that are unclear. Just let me know what questions you have and I'll do my best to answer ! =)
On a side note, all these bad reviews are because people played this game for one hour and couldn't figure it out. Once you figure out the system, it's REALLY rewarding. Talking about it makes me want to go play it ! =)
Actually, that was a really good, really long description, and I think you answered all of the questions that I could've had. I'm still not sure about my opinion of what you described, and thus whether or not I would want the game, but that was a very complete description and I at least understand the game now.
Also, I really don't think that the part about the bad reviews applies to EGM. EGM has a very large review staff for a very small review section, so their reviewers are usually able to finish RPGs, including games as long as Xenosaga and Suikoden III, and then tell you whether or not the game changes toward the end. I think they probably played through it for a good, long time before reviewing it and just didn't like it. And from what you're describing, I'm not sure I could really blame them. It sounds interesting, but it definitely sounds like a game that not just anyone could enjoy.
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| KTallguy
90th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):More information on the game." , posted Fri 4 Jul 00:50
quote:
Actually, that was a really good, really long description, and I think you answered all of the questions that I could've had. I'm still not sure about my opinion of what you described, and thus whether or not I would want the game, but that was a very complete description and I at least understand the game now.
Also, I really don't think that the part about the bad reviews applies to EGM. EGM has a very large review staff for a very small review section, so their reviewers are usually able to finish RPGs, including games as long as Xenosaga and Suikoden III, and then tell you whether or not the game changes toward the end. I think they probably played through it for a good, long time before reviewing it and just didn't like it. And from what you're describing, I'm not sure I could really blame them. It sounds interesting, but it definitely sounds like a game that not just anyone could enjoy.
My ultimate advice is to try the game somehow.
I was thinking about getting it because I tend to like quirky games. But I was originally planning to wait till its price dropped into the 30-20 dollar range.
After playing the game, I immediately went and bought it. It struck a chord in me for some reason. The music and artwork drew me in somehow. I really tend to like games with a more direct story, but this game story always seems to hint at a bigger world of things. It's not about the characters in a sense, it's about the world they are in and the events they are surrounded with. And the gameplay is very deep, once you understand what's going on and plan accordingly.
You may be right about EGM and their reviewers and I highly respect them if they really do their homework. I guess that this is really the type of game that only 'certain' people will get into.
Anyway, I'm glad all that typing wasn't wasted. I almost want to turn it into a "Newbie Faq" on gamefaqs... thanks for reading =P
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