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| Ammadeau
242th Post
 
Frequent Customer
    
|  "I hate KOF2k2"
, posted Mon 23 Jun 04:59
Okay, I officially hate KOF2k2. It's going out of the dreamcast to be replaced with the far superior (imo) 2k1. If I didn't like the art gallery I'd probably try to sell it.
I could ignore the missing characters, the bad music, the horrible backgrounds, the lack of any interesting gameplay modes outside of the base one (challenge is a chore and a snore), and a bunch of other minor problems, but I can't ignore that one of my favorite characters, Yuri, has been ruined.
Not only is she missing two moves, but one of her motions was changed for a move making it harder to pull off and you need to go into MAX mode and then do her max super when in 2k1 all you needed was to hold two buttons. I can't use her in 2k2 and she's the character I use the most in KOF. I don't care if this brings her back to her '98 incarnation, it just plain sucks any way I look about it.
I'll missing using Vice and Mature, but all the others I use are in 2k1. I never minded strikers, even though I don't use them.
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Replies:
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| Batsu
124th Post
Regular Customer
|  "Ha!"
, posted Mon 23 Jun 06:06
quote:
Okay, I officially hate KOF2k2. It's going out of the dreamcast to be replaced with the far superior (imo) 2k1. If I didn't like the art gallery I'd probably try to sell it.
I could ignore the missing characters, the bad music, the horrible backgrounds, the lack of any interesting gameplay modes outside of the base one (challenge is a chore and a snore), and a bunch of other minor problems, but I can't ignore that one of my favorite characters, Yuri, has been ruined.
Not only is she missing two moves, but one of her motions was changed for a move making it harder to pull off and you need to go into MAX mode and then do her max super when in 2k1 all you needed was to hold two buttons. I can't use her in 2k2 and she's the character I use the most in KOF. I don't care if this brings her back to her '98 incarnation, it just plain sucks any way I look about it.
I'll missing using Vice and Mature, but all the others I use are in 2k1. I never minded strikers, even though I don't use them.
There are some characters that got incredibly cheesed out, but the Yuri in that game is as cheap as her CVS2 version...in fact she plays almost identically to that version save the fact that her "Cock Rocket" (Shin Chou Upper) super replaces her "Shoryureppa" like super. If you were used to playing the Yuri of 96-01, then I can see the problem. The 01 Yuri is too damn cheap for words! I'm kinda glad they changed her... but I don't like how the Raiouken works like 96 Benimaru's air Raijinken.
The characters I'm kinda mad at them altering were Robert Garcia, Ryo, and Clark. Clark especially, because now all he has to rely on is his blasted command throws, the most useful of which can be blocked. Robert Garcia lost his "Dan" kick (however, his Geneikyaku 15 hit kick move has incredible priority, it's just stationary), and Ryo regained his "C" Koouken move, which makes his SDM Ryuuko Ranbu IMPOSSIBLE.
The only thing I despise about the DC port really is the fact Challenge mode is CRAP. Time Attack was nearly impossible in the last stages (thank goodness for Maxima), Single Attack was a pain (thank goodness for RALF), and I'm still struggling with Team Attack.
Overall, it's not as good a port as 2k1 because of the lack of extras, but I like the game as it is...save the Challenge Mode chores. Being able to use Yamazaki and Shermie again is worth the price of admission.
Capcom's Corporate Champ!
Snowstorm: Future Gas Face Recipient.
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| Fro Boy11 1743th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
 
    
    
    
| "Re(1):Ha!" , posted Mon 23 Jun 06:15
quote:
Okay, I officially hate KOF2k2. It's going out of the dreamcast to be replaced with the far superior (imo) 2k1. If I didn't like the art gallery I'd probably try to sell it.
I could ignore the missing characters, the bad music, the horrible backgrounds, the lack of any interesting gameplay modes outside of the base one (challenge is a chore and a snore), and a bunch of other minor problems, but I can't ignore that one of my favorite characters, Yuri, has been ruined.
Not only is she missing two moves, but one of her motions was changed for a move making it harder to pull off and you need to go into MAX mode and then do her max super when in 2k1 all you needed was to hold two buttons. I can't use her in 2k2 and she's the character I use the most in KOF. I don't care if this brings her back to her '98 incarnation, it just plain sucks any way I look about it.
I'll missing using Vice and Mature, but all the others I use are in 2k1. I never minded strikers, even though I don't use them.
There are some characters that got incredibly cheesed out, but the Yuri in that game is as cheap as her CVS2 version...in fact she plays almost identically to that version save the fact that her "Cock Rocket" (Shin Chou Upper) super replaces her "Shoryureppa" like super. If you were used to playing the Yuri of 96-01, then I can see the problem. The 01 Yuri is too damn cheap for words! I'm kinda glad they changed her... but I don't like how the Raiouken works like 96 Benimaru's air Raijinken.
The characters I'm kinda mad at them altering were Robert Garcia, Ryo, and Clark. Clark especially, because now all he has to rely on is his blasted command throws, the most useful of which can be blocked. Robert Garcia lost his "Dan" kick (however, his Geneikyaku 15 hit kick move has incredible priority, it's just stationary), and Ryo regained his "C" Koouken move, which makes his SDM Ryuuko Ranbu IMPOSSIBLE.
The only thing I despise about the DC port really is the fact Challenge mode is CRAP. Time Attack was nearly impossible in the last stages (thank goodness for Maxima), Single Attack was a pain (thank goodness for RALF), and I'm still struggling with Team Attack.
Overall, it's not as good a port as 2k1 because of the lack of extras, but I like the game as it is...save the Challenge Mode chores. Being able to use Yamazaki and Shermie again is worth the price of admission.
Yeah, Robert got screwed. He's the one character that I use the most in KOF, but since he got screwed i've been trying to learn new characters. So, I'm not gonna trip out and say I hate KOF2k2. The music wasn't that bad, IMO. The backgrounds are better than KOF2k1. I don't have it yet, so I can't say anything about the extra modes and stuff, but as far as I'm concerned KOF2k2 is WAY better than 2k1. The challenge stuff and everything sounds interesting though.
Still waiting for a Dan Hibiki and Robert Garcia dream match!
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| Ammadeau
243th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(3):Ha!" , posted Mon 23 Jun 08:47
quote:
as far as I'm concerned KOF2k2 is WAY better than 2k1. YES. Angel got Haruko's voice, that alone makes it a must-have.
Angel is in 2k1. Did they change her voice actress or something? I didn't notice the difference myself.
I was playing 2k1 now and I realized the thing I really dislike about 2k2 is there is nothing new. I know it's supposed to be a dreammatch, but it feels so stale to me especially with Rugal as the boss once again. The lack of Foxy and Xang Fei doesn't help matters either. They could have added some new mode, even a survival mode like the one in MotW, but there's just nothing good about challenge mode at all.
Oh, I was playing through practice in 2k1 and I think the old '96 KOF backgrounds look better than the ones in 2k2, though it might be a matter of taste.
Yes, Yuri is overpowered in 2k1. When I chose her first, I never went to my second character until I hit the bosses, but I like her that way. :)
Takuma seemed a bit dumbed down in 2k2 as well and no Heiden (even if he plays oddly in 2k1).
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| emeraldazn
118th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(4):Ha!" , posted Mon 23 Jun 08:48
ok, yuri is like one of the top-tier in 2k2... she has her freaking b,b,b,a dp+C combo back, an awesome air fb, a grab move, a comboable hsdm..i can go on and on.
her downfwd+b helps her have 100% connectivity with her dm..b,a, dwnfwd+b, dm.
dwnfwd+D makes a decent anti-air, u can connect with a C, or if u are in corner, dp+a (and supercancel to dm if u have 2 stocks)
in 2k2 u cant really use dms cuz alot of them do crap damage..some are still good ..but heck many of the sdms are crap damage.
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| OYashiroForever 289th Post
Copper Customer
| "Hate is such a strong word..." , posted Mon 23 Jun 08:58
quote:
Okay, I officially hate KOF2k2. It's going out of the dreamcast to be replaced with the far superior (imo) 2k1. If I didn't like the art gallery I'd probably try to sell it.
Your opinion and you're entitled to it, but you're definitely in the minority.
quote:
I could ignore the missing characters, the bad music, the horrible backgrounds, the lack of any interesting gameplay modes outside of the base one (challenge is a chore and a snore), and a bunch of other minor problems, but I can't ignore that one of my favorite characters, Yuri, has been ruined.
Yuri is still hella powerful in 2k2, the music and backgrounds were even worse in 2k1, and you lose/gain characters every year (though the only character I miss from 2k1 is Hinako. Foxy, Lin, Bao, Heidern? Uhhh... no thanks). Hardly reason enough to justify hating a game.
A mediocre port? Yeah. Challenge mode is pretty lame and King + Shingo are pretty much the same as 2001. However, I still say that 2002 is the strongest KoF as far as gameplay and character balance since '98. It's fast-paced, it has a simple, minimal-BS engine, and it's very casual fan-friendly (Angel's new voice/poses, new supers galore, return of old favorites, Athena doesn't look like a troll, etc.) All my opinion, of course...
"Only two things are infinite the universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former."
"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see through you."
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| justicekyo 581th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(1):I hate KOF2k2" , posted Mon 23 Jun 12:28
quote:
Okay, I officially hate KOF2k2. It's going out of the dreamcast to be replaced with the far superior (imo) 2k1. If I didn't like the art gallery I'd probably try to sell it.
I could ignore the missing characters, the bad music, the horrible backgrounds, the lack of any interesting gameplay modes outside of the base one (challenge is a chore and a snore), and a bunch of other minor problems, but I can't ignore that one of my favorite characters, Yuri, has been ruined.
Not only is she missing two moves, but one of her motions was changed for a move making it harder to pull off and you need to go into MAX mode and then do her max super when in 2k1 all you needed was to hold two buttons. I can't use her in 2k2 and she's the character I use the most in KOF. I don't care if this brings her back to her '98 incarnation, it just plain sucks any way I look about it.
I'll missing using Vice and Mature, but all the others I use are in 2k1. I never minded strikers, even though I don't use them.
wana hear something stronger than the word "hate"?
"2K1 is utter shit.never have i played such a slow game in my life."
when i lived back in NYC, 2K1 lasted us about the time span of 1 month. after that, you can truely see how boring the game is...
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| Burning Kyo 1715th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
|  "Re(1):I hate KOF2k2"
, posted Mon 23 Jun 16:04:
quote:
Okay, I officially hate KOF2k2. It's going out of the dreamcast to be replaced with the far superior (imo) 2k1. If I didn't like the art gallery I'd probably try to sell it.
I could ignore the missing characters, the bad music, the horrible backgrounds, the lack of any interesting gameplay modes outside of the base one (challenge is a chore and a snore), and a bunch of other minor problems, but I can't ignore that one of my favorite characters, Yuri, has been ruined.
Not only is she missing two moves, but one of her motions was changed for a move making it harder to pull off and you need to go into MAX mode and then do her max super when in 2k1 all you needed was to hold two buttons. I can't use her in 2k2 and she's the character I use the most in KOF. I don't care if this brings her back to her '98 incarnation, it just plain sucks any way I look about it.
I'll missing using Vice and Mature, but all the others I use are in 2k1. I never minded strikers, even though I don't use them.
- Missing which important characters ? Lin, Bao, Heidern, Foxy , XianFei ? The only important is Lin IMHO. (PS : XianFei is only good as a striker in 2k1)
- Bad Music 'n Crappy BG ? Have you ever played to 2k1 ? 2k2 = remix of the best kof musics (Kim's 'n Girls' one aren't but ... baahhh, they're great !). And what's the other minor problems ?
- Do you know that you bought a fighting games ? So don't expect too much of extra mode stuff ! When I buy a KOF, it's not for the puzzle or tetris mode.
- Like Emeraldaz says, Yuri is a top-tiers in '02, so if you can play with her correctly : "Go fastly buy new hands !"
PS : IMHO, '02 is one of the 3 best KOFs with '98 and '96.
PPS : Arrête Kikkoken ! Clark n'est po nul dans le '02 ; C sûr que comparer à celui du '01, il peut paraître faible mais bon ... C po celui du '00 kan même.
Not a Match. STRUGGLE !!
[this message was edited by Burning Kyo on Mon 23 Jun 16:26] |
| Batsu
125th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(2):Ha!" , posted Mon 23 Jun 21:14
quote:
Yeah, Robert got screwed. He's the one character that I use the most in KOF, but since he got screwed i've been trying to learn new characters. So, I'm not gonna trip out and say I hate KOF2k2. The music wasn't that bad, IMO. The backgrounds are better than KOF2k1. I don't have it yet, so I can't say anything about the extra modes and stuff, but as far as I'm concerned KOF2k2 is WAY better than 2k1. The challenge stuff and everything sounds interesting though.
It's a pain. I finally got Rugal... and I just saved that game to multiple memory cards, then uploaded that save just in case.
The extra modes are supremely lacking compared to 2k1 DC version...
But I did notice one thing about Robert. His Geneikyaku (F, B, F + K) move, his version of Ryo's Zanretsuken is CHEAP. Not a thing can knock him out of it... and if you move a hair while standing next to him while he does it, you get sucked in. I'd still rather have him with the "Dan" kick...but he is type mean with that move. Let's not even talk about his unblockable, invulnerable HSDM...
now as for King and Shingo, as Kyo was in 2K2, they are the 2K1 versions, only now they only have one DM/SDM, and their HSDMs are their secondary supers (King the Surprise Rose, and Shingo, that ranbu-like super of his) from 2k1. Though I'll say this for King... her damage makes her CHEAP. The Mirage Kick takes off way too much damage to be desired...
I guess if you were missing those characters from the original, it was nice to have them again.
Though, for replay value, after it all has been said and done, there's no nice puzzle mode in this game...it's almost a straight port with 2 new characters to throw in the fray.
I wouldn't be mad if this were the last KOF game ever produced though... I'm seriously wondering how they could reinvent the wheel after this!
Don't underestimate Takuma, I tell you what. He is type cheap... now that he has that Marco/Butt Hienshippukyaku. And the (C) Koouken is murder... it's invisible, but it has projectile range!
Capcom's Corporate Champ!
Snowstorm: Future Gas Face Recipient.
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| iggy 1303th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(3):Ha!" , posted Tue 24 Jun 01:20
quote:
Though, for replay value, after it all has been said and done, there's no nice puzzle mode in this game...it's almost a straight port with 2 new characters to throw in the fray.
Playmore, you dumbasses! You do a fighting game and the only extra you think about is to put in 2 new characters? No tetris-like boring - like - hell game? No funny love simulation where you could hang out with Shermie (or Choi and Chang, and if you play well, at the end, they change by the power of love into Cool Choi and smart Chang)? no cooking simulation with King learning you how to make the traditional ultimate french yakisoba? No DDR-like game with Chizuru struggling to be the queen of the party? No new Ikari Warrior game entirely original with Ralf, Clark, Leona, Whip as a secret overpowered character and the almighty atomic ostrich?
Man, you're so lazy, playmore. What did you think, heh? What did you think?
忌まわしき封印は消え去った。今再び、我目覚めたり！！！
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| Batsu
126th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(4):Ha!" , posted Tue 24 Jun 05:21
quote:
Though, for replay value, after it all has been said and done, there's no nice puzzle mode in this game...it's almost a straight port with 2 new characters to throw in the fray.
Playmore, you dumbasses! You do a fighting game and the only extra you think about is to put in 2 new characters? No tetris-like boring - like - hell game? No funny love simulation where you could hang out with Shermie (or Choi and Chang, and if you play well, at the end, they change by the power of love into Cool Choi and smart Chang)? no cooking simulation with King learning you how to make the traditional ultimate french yakisoba? No DDR-like game with Chizuru struggling to be the queen of the party? No new Ikari Warrior game entirely original with Ralf, Clark, Leona, Whip as a secret overpowered character and the almighty atomic ostrich?
Man, you're so lazy, playmore. What did you think, heh? What did you think?
LOL. Well, I mean... it was hard to top the route they were going with 2000 and 2k1. It gets replay, as long as you have several human opponents nearby.
Capcom's Corporate Champ!
Snowstorm: Future Gas Face Recipient.
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| Kikkoken 387th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(4):Ha!" , posted Tue 24 Jun 05:56
quote:
Playmore, you dumbasses! You do a fighting game and the only extra you think about is to put in 2 new characters? No tetris-like boring - like - hell game? No funny love simulation where you could hang out with Shermie (or Choi and Chang, and if you play well, at the end, they change by the power of love into Cool Choi and smart Chang)? no cooking simulation with King learning you how to make the traditional ultimate french yakisoba? No DDR-like game with Chizuru struggling to be the queen of the party? No new Ikari Warrior game entirely original with Ralf, Clark, Leona, Whip as a secret overpowered character and the almighty atomic ostrich?
Man, you're so lazy, playmore. What did you think, heh? What did you think?
Great mini games ideas there! That's the French touch.
Particular sign: KOF EX2 addicted.
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| D`Cloud
82th Post
Occasional Customer
| "blow me." , posted Tue 24 Jun 07:21
quote:
Okay, I officially hate KOF2k2. It's going out of the dreamcast to be replaced with the far superior (imo) 2k1. If I didn't like the art gallery I'd probably try to sell it.
I could ignore the missing characters, the bad music, the horrible backgrounds, the lack of any interesting gameplay modes outside of the base one (challenge is a chore and a snore), and a bunch of other minor problems, but I can't ignore that one of my favorite characters, Yuri, has been ruined.
Not only is she missing two moves, but one of her motions was changed for a move making it harder to pull off and you need to go into MAX mode and then do her max super when in 2k1 all you needed was to hold two buttons. I can't use her in 2k2 and she's the character I use the most in KOF. I don't care if this brings her back to her '98 incarnation, it just plain sucks any way I look about it.
I'll missing using Vice and Mature, but all the others I use are in 2k1. I never minded strikers, even though I don't use them.
wana hear something stronger than the word "hate"?
"2K1 is utter shit.never have i played such a slow game in my life."
when i lived back in NYC, 2K1 lasted us about the time span of 1 month. after that, you can truely see how boring the game is...
strong words from someone who probably sucks at kof.
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| justicekyo 582th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(1):blow me." , posted Tue 24 Jun 08:31
quote:
Okay, I officially hate KOF2k2. It's going out of the dreamcast to be replaced with the far superior (imo) 2k1. If I didn't like the art gallery I'd probably try to sell it.
I could ignore the missing characters, the bad music, the horrible backgrounds, the lack of any interesting gameplay modes outside of the base one (challenge is a chore and a snore), and a bunch of other minor problems, but I can't ignore that one of my favorite characters, Yuri, has been ruined.
Not only is she missing two moves, but one of her motions was changed for a move making it harder to pull off and you need to go into MAX mode and then do her max super when in 2k1 all you needed was to hold two buttons. I can't use her in 2k2 and she's the character I use the most in KOF. I don't care if this brings her back to her '98 incarnation, it just plain sucks any way I look about it.
I'll missing using Vice and Mature, but all the others I use are in 2k1. I never minded strikers, even though I don't use them.
wana hear something stronger than the word "hate"?
"2K1 is utter shit.never have i played such a slow game in my life."
when i lived back in NYC, 2K1 lasted us about the time span of 1 month. after that, you can truely see how boring the game is...
strong words from someone who probably sucks at kof.
me suck?
that's far from the case. i play cpu battle on level 8 as the norm, and never lose... i play against the koreans and chinese, and have a win-lose rate of 50%/50%.
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| Burning Kyo 1717th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(1):And here are its problems." , posted Wed 25 Jun 03:46:
quote:
Out of curiosity, I just did an extended experiment. Working on probable links between characters, I set up every plausible match, in search for character interaction in KoF'02. I found that most of the major intros simply aren't there. ... etc.
Who cares about that after some hours of gaming ? A lot of people zap the intros.
Besides, it seems that you don't count the special winning pose (Kyo/Iori, Ramon/Joe, ... etc.).
quote:
All of the characters which are even peripherally related tend to have something to say. I mean, Clark and K' both have sunglasses! In KoF'98, that'd be a special intro right there !
Where have you seen that kind of intros in '98 ? I think you confused with the special teams endings (Headband team, Baseball team, true Fathers team, ... etc.)
quote:
It has both prominent play modes (or "grooves", for you Capcom vs SNK fans) that were defined in '97. These modes correspond to the two distinct game systems that the series had gone through up until that point.
Nobody use the extra mode.
And I think it'll just add more problems for the HSDM.
KoF'02, by contrast, isn't representative of anything. This game is, I exaggerate not, nothing more than King of Fighters '98 with a slight change in character roster (the USA Sports and Oyaji teams have been removed; three teams representating characters from KoF'99-2001 have been added) and with most of the extra options and surrounding context removed entirely.
quote:
KoF'02, by contrast, isn't representative of anything. This game is, I exaggerate not, nothing more than King of Fighters '98 with a slight change in character roster (the USA Sports and Oyaji teams have been removed; three teams representating characters from KoF'99-2001 have been added) and with most of the extra options and surrounding context removed entirely ... No attempt is made to wrap everything together. It's like a Mugen game. Everything just... is.
What do you want of more in '02 ? You've said that '98 is a great game ! I think there's no shame to be '98 copy.
The main goal of '02 is to reconquer the people which have stop to play KOF after '98. And I think that mission is accomplished.
If I start to think like you, all KOF (or any cross-over) is a Mugen game.
quote:
King of Fighters 2001, while superficially kind of scuzzy-looking, is the most extreme example of this truth ... , both internally and in reflection upon all of the past.
IMHO, KOF '01 is a joke
quote:
That the game... was just laced more tightly. That more thought and care went into it; into making it a true example of all that KoF is and has been, rather than just another well-playing fighting game. We've already got dozens of those. KoF used to be something more.
All the special KOF touch is in the gameplay. And I advice you to stop drugs, KOF '02 is just a very well-playing fighting game. But what are the dozens of those ? It's just the other KOF, man.
Besides, technically, KOF '02 isn't a bad game ... on the contrary.
quote:
Anyway. We'll see what happens this year, with KoF'03. With any luck, SNK will stop listening to the dull, ill-considered fan voice for a while and do something truly original and interesting. After a bore like '02, I want to be surprised.
What do you consider as dull voice ? the Asian players voices ?
You talk about "fan voice", but '02 is the game that the fans wanted.
Not a Match. STRUGGLE !!
[this message was edited by Burning Kyo on Wed 25 Jun 03:48] |
| aderack
22th Post
New Customer
| "Re(2):And here are its problems." , posted Wed 25 Jun 06:18
quote:
Who cares about that after some hours of gaming ? A lot of people zap the intros.
This is part of a larger point which you seem to be missing. I only use this as illustration.
quote:
Besides, it seems that you don't count the special winning pose (Kyo/Iori, Ramon/Joe, ... etc.).
I admit I haven't seen those.
quote:
What do you want of more in '02 ? You've said that '98 is a great game ! I think there's no shame to be '98 copy. ...
If I start to think like you, all KOF (or any cross-over) is a Mugen game.
Again. You didn't read the article closely.
quote:
IMHO, KOF '01 is a joke
Well, you're wrong. I've done a decent job illustrating at least a basic framework for why.
In contrast, this kind of a response on your part does little to show me that you've put much thought into the matter.
quote:
What do you consider as dull voice ? the Asian players voices ? You talk about "fan voice", but '02 is the game that the fans wanted.
And that's exactly the problem. Again, read more closely. Then think before replying, if you will. I'm not interested in being insulted.
EricJonRösselWaugh
YOU CANNOT STOP ME WITH JUST A PARAMECIUM!
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| Time Mage 1515th Post
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(1):And here are its problems." , posted Wed 25 Jun 08:08
quote:
If anyone is curious, I've some impressions (ostensibly of the DC port) down here:
http://www.insertcredit.com/reviews/kof02dc/kof02dc.html
Some of this I've been meaning to vent for a while, in a place where it can be seen more easily than my personal scream-corner.
I think... I pretty much get it down.
Well, I disagree.
I think you comment as the negative aspects all the less important things of the game, like the interactions, and basically anything that makes it different from '98.
For me, the gameplay is the most important thing in a fighting game (although graphics and sound count, of course), and 2002 has a very good gameplay. The BC mode is original and sometimes useful, the supercancel has been refined from 2001, and the game is quite enjoyable to play, at least in my non-ultra-competitive group of friends, and that's the most important thing for me: enjoy the game.
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| Genjuro 544th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(2):And here are its problems." , posted Wed 25 Jun 10:23
quote:
Well, I disagree.
I think you comment as the negative aspects all the less important things of the game, like the interactions, and basically anything that makes it different from '98.
For me, the gameplay is the most important thing in a fighting game (although graphics and sound count, of course), and 2002 has a very good gameplay. The BC mode is original and sometimes useful, the supercancel has been refined from 2001, and the game is quite enjoyable to play, at least in my non-ultra-competitive group of friends, and that's the most important thing for me: enjoy the game.
Well, it just comes down to anyone's personal opinion I guess..
In my own non competitive group of friends I enjoyed more 2k1..though playing 2k2 emulated is not ideal for me..and I haven't played it that much..
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| Juke Joint Jezebel 2016th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
  
|  "Re(1):And here are its problems. NO"
, posted Wed 25 Jun 10:27
quote:
If anyone is curious, I've some impressions (ostensibly of the DC port) down here:
http://www.insertcredit.com/reviews/kof02dc/kof02dc.html
Some of this I've been meaning to vent for a while, in a place where it can be seen more easily than my personal scream-corner.
I think... I pretty much get it down.
hmm according to the article, kof 2002 sucks because there's only a few special intros, no "extra" mode, no puzzle game (because kof is all about puzzle games), and there's no arranged sound track for you to boogie down to. BUT "We've got a rather nicely-playing, reasonably attractive KoF shell." you summed it up nicely there, yet you continue to bash it for other nonsensical reasons. really, what more could you want in a kof?
don't get me started on character interactions. even before Playmore, SNK messed up a lot of these in the past (no interaction between Andy and Geese, Vice and Iori, Mature and Vice, Mr Big and the Sakazakis, Krauser vs any of the Garous, Yamazaki vs any of the Garous ... i could go on)
as for Clark and K', it's funny you mention that. i told one of my friends that Clark is immune to K''s "sunglasses throw" DM, and that Clark "catches" K''s glasses when he throws it at you. so Hagen performs the DM and naturally the guy doesn't move Clark and BAM! the DM lands! after a roar of laughter coming from me and other friends, he asks me "what the hell happened? you said he catches the glasses!" and i said back "the distance is all wrong. you have to get closer." so the next match begins and Hagen performs the DM again and BAM! the DM lands again! oh, those were good times. he wanted to kill me after that
hmm, my train of thought is gone. oh well
There's a little iggy in all of us.
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| OYashiroForever 295th Post
Copper Customer
| "And here is the problem with your problems." , posted Wed 25 Jun 10:56:
quote:
Some of this I've been meaning to vent for a while, in a place where it can be seen more easily than my personal scream-corner.
I think... I pretty much get it down.
I beg to differ. While you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, the list of "problems" you rattle off are based on a vague expectation and a skewed view of what KoF (and fighting games in general) are. Allow me to 'splain:
quote:
<insert 8-paragraph rant on character intros>
As someone already pointed out, this is fluff. Yes, in some ways, character interaction does give a better semblance of a story and sheds a little light on the world in which the game takes place. However, at the end of the day, when you think about whether or not you're going to be playing a game 2 or even 5 years later (like we are with '98), you don't look at the fluff. You look at how the game plays (remember that?).
Oh, but just to put this all in a little perspective (and since you made the comparison), '98 has 64 distinct character intros... 2k2 has 40 distinct character intros (the vast majority of them different from '98) and 24 distinct character winning poses (taken from Kao Megura's FAQs and doesn't include any possible ones Shingo + King might have). If you didn't know that the game had these character specific winning poses (which were in 2001 as well), then perhaps you haven't played the game long enough to form an informed opinion about the game, much less post a review on a reputable website.
quote:
Basically, '98 is shoved full of everything that was KoF up until that point. Every major game system, character, character version. Then it's wrapped it up into a sort of alternate universe tournament that kind of makes its own sort of sense. And which had a lot of energy and charm. Which is fun and engaging. Even if it isn't part of the larger continuity, it's "real"; everyone and everything is connected. (Well, basically.)
Yeah, unfortunately, Eolith didn't have the option to include every character and game system from the last 8 years. There's a little thing called cart memory restrictions that prevents them from coming even close to including the other 25-30 characters that have graced KoF over the years. Even '98, which only had 4 years to work with, was missing several characters. An unfortunate fact of life.
quote:
In this case, it works really well. If I want to demonstrate King of Fighters to someone, I'll inevitably yank out '98. Why? Because it represents the essence of KoF. It is a compilation of all that is King of Fighters, up until the NESTS saga, wound up into one cross-referenced, accessible package. It uses it non-canonical status as an asset, in order to allow it to be definitive.
I think this is fundamentally where we part ways. My friends and I still play '98 to this day because it is the strongest game in the KoF series from a GAMEPLAY perspective. The damage settings are nigh perfect, there's a large number of characters that can be used competitively, there's relatively few bugs/infinites/100%s, and it had a great roster. 2000 is a much better game on almost every superficial level (music, story, backgrounds, character interaction, etc.)... unfortunately, it falls flat on its face as a fighting game. Hence, I'll still be playing '98 5 years from now and 2000 will be collecting dust.
quote:
And... that's what draws me in to KoF, y'know? That's its glory -- how coherent it is. It's the showcase for SNK's entire universe. It's got this solid, glowing core. It lives. It breathes. It has a heartbeat. It thinks. It has context, both internal and external -- so even when it's taken out-of-context, it still has meaning. That's the one thing which truly makes this series unique in the face of all of the other fighting games out there.
Yet another example of what I'm talking about. While you're interested in some sort of mystical feng shui that makes KoF a complete entity, I'm interested in playing a sturdy fighting game that stands up to high levels of scrutiny and relies on a solid engine and play mechanics.
2002 is that game. No, it ain't pretty (the backgrounds are only marginally better than the absolute joke which was 2001's backgrounds). Eolith couldn't bang out a decent tune to save their lives. Sure, I probably would've made some different roster changes. But it's a rock-solid engine with very little BS and just enough trimmings to keep me playing for a long time.
Oh... and 2001 is worse than this game on every single possible level. The presentation is absolute crap (art, backgrounds, music are all awful) and more importantly, the game is a bug-riddled, 100%-infested mess. If 2002 wasn't a dream match, it would, by default, have a better story as well.
Granted, this is all my opinion and others may feel differently. However, I stand by my original point: these are fighting GAMES. They live and die based on how well the game plays, not who has an intro with who, who was left out of the roster, and whether or not it holds the "essence" of the series.
Oh... and the DC port is mediocre. Challenge Mode is half-assed and King + Shingo are pretty much the same as 2001. <yawn> I'll still play it more than the last 3 KoFs combined.
"Only two things are infinite the universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former."
"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see through you."
[this message was edited by OYashiroForever on Wed 25 Jun 10:57] |
| Rid Hershel 5175th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "The problems with KOF reviews" , posted Thu 26 Jun 09:50:
Let's consider the factors, maybe some are based on personal opinions:
-New stuff on KOF games: around 4 characters, generally lacking personality at first. Older ones remains mostly untouched. The game systems are usually old, or bad implemenmted (strikers).
-Graphics: The game looks considerably worse than games released almost five years ago (Street Fighter 3, Garou: MOW, Last Blade), with some choppy animations (like Kim's weird mix of new and old style sprite), bad resolution (the pixelation on MVS games shows its age) and lacks graphical integrity (pre-99 sprites really don't go well with the newer ones, just compare Mai or Shermie with Kula, Vanessa or Angel). Also the background design is really lacking, specially in 2k1.
-Sound: KOF 99-2k1 was forgettable, KOF2k2 hurts my ears.
-Gameplay: Good, refined, but still not perfect enough for a game with so many sequels.
-Wow factor to attrack newbies: Zero. A newbie won't touch these games because: a) they would play a 3D game over any low-res 2D one; b) they'll find a lot of hardcore players screaming: SEE? YOU SUCK! on their faces.
Of course, I love the game (I'm a 2D fan), but there are two kinds of review you can make: objective ones, that fans won't like; or fan-based ones, that are highly biased.
[this message was edited by Rid Hershel on Thu 26 Jun 09:52] |
| Ammadeau 253th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(1):The problems with KOF reviews" , posted Thu 26 Jun 20:53
quote:
Let's consider the factors, maybe some are based on personal opinions:
-New stuff on KOF games: around 4 characters, generally lacking personality at first. Older ones remains mostly untouched. The game systems are usually old, or bad implemenmted (strikers).
-Graphics: The game looks considerably worse than games released almost five years ago (Street Fighter 3, Garou: MOW, Last Blade), with some choppy animations (like Kim's weird mix of new and old style sprite), bad resolution (the pixelation on MVS games shows its age) and lacks graphical integrity (pre-99 sprites really don't go well with the newer ones, just compare Mai or Shermie with Kula, Vanessa or Angel). Also the background design is really lacking, specially in 2k1.
-Sound: KOF 99-2k1 was forgettable, KOF2k2 hurts my ears.
-Gameplay: Good, refined, but still not perfect enough for a game with so many sequels.
-Wow factor to attrack newbies: Zero. A newbie won't touch these games because: a) they would play a 3D game over any low-res 2D one; b) they'll find a lot of hardcore players screaming: SEE? YOU SUCK! on their faces.
Of course, I love the game (I'm a 2D fan), but there are two kinds of review you can make: objective ones, that fans won't like; or fan-based ones, that are highly biased.
Okay, those are your opinions... so where are the facts? :)
I think the problem with any review is it has to be based around opinion whenever you get to the point of saying if something is good or not. A fact would be something like '2k1 includes strikers, 2k2 does not' and not make judgements on whether they are good or not.
I know just about everyone hates strikers, but there are rare people who like them. I was playing 2k2 with a friend before I gave up on it and the first question he had was 'where are the strikers?' He's hardly a fighting fanatic, but he personally liked strikers. I never cared either way myself.
my latest random art
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"Re(3):blow UP, chinese style" 
"Re(5):I hate KOF2k2" 
