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| Gen 1657th Post
 
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
 
    
    
    
    
|  "Re(1):Unethical Fansubbers"
, posted Sun 8 Jun 22:01
quote:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/editorial.php?id=43
AnimeJunkies. Horrible fansubs and huge assholes.
"
I just got off the phone with one of the nicest people in the Anime industry, and she was pissed off.
As you all probably know, Urban Vision holds the license for the new Ninja Scroll TV series. What you might have missed, is that UV is actually co-producing the show and that they are in fact one of the driving forces behind it. If it hadn’t been for a pitch that UV made to Madhouse, there would be no Ninja Scroll TV series. In short, it’s thanks to UV that the Ninja Scroll TV series is being produced.
...
Anime Junkies has a huge list of licensed titles that they have fansubbed or are currently fansubbing and are available for download from IRC. They also make their fansubs available by BitTorrent. One of the great things about BitTorrent is that it is very easy for the original distributor to remove access to a fansub once it has been licensed. Unfortunately Anime Junkies hasn't done that. They have functional links to Torrent files for a number of licensed titles, including Ninja Scroll.
Urban Vision, thinking that Anime Junkies probably wasn’t aware that the title was “licensed” wrote them a polite e-mail informing them that it was licensed and requesting that it be removed from distribution.
Anime Junkies’ answer was anything but polite. The tirade of insults, curses and fallacies suggested that Urban Vision was doing something wrong and that Anime Junkies had every right to fansub licensed material and distribute it as an inexpensive, immediate alternative to the DVD release.
A few juicy tidbits from their reply:
“Leave fansubs to fans or do it for free yourselves. All you are doing is getting rich off a series we helped make popular.”
“Who the fuck are you anyways to buy a series we were doing?”
“You knew we were subbing, you know people fansub... So why the fuck did you start a DVD company?”
“Rot in Hell”
Shortly after this e-mail, my friend at UV had her mail-box flooded with more harassing and threatening e-mails.
...
As for Anime Junkies, I hope that everyone in the community turns their backs on them. It’s the least that they deserve. I also hope that another company with more legal power really puts the letter of the law to Anime Junkies and shuts them down for good… or more.
"
Everybody loves baklava! Crispier flakier crust!
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| Grave 353th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(2):ANN is gay" , posted Sun 8 Jun 23:56
quote:
Well... actually, I like both of those shows and dislike Megatokyo, too. -_- I don't have any idea what's going on in the "Anime fan community", because although I suppose I'm a fan, I pay absolutely no attention to any other fans... seems to me there may be exaggerations going on in this report, anyway..
The anime fan community, in large, angers me. I'm attending Otakon this year with 5 or 6 friends, and we're all excited, but I'm kinda worried that it might be some of the most disturbing 3 days of my life. Some of those people annoy me so much.
And my opinions hardly ever meet up with their own. I thought about making a shirt proclaiming my distaste for Evangelion to start some trouble, and perhaps my distaste for Xenogears on the back, but come on, I don't want to get shot.
And yeah. I despise Megatokyo. I'd like let the author know that, too, if he's in attendance. Mostly because it used to be somewhat good, too... and now... well.. bleh. I'd probably spend most of the time bothering the guys from Penny Arcade instead.
Actually, now that I think of it, anyone else from here going to Otakon? It might be cool to meet up with someone who feels similarly bewildered and scared. :P
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| DarkZero
99th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):ANN is gay" , posted Mon 9 Jun 00:10
Even though I like Megatokyo, I have to agree with Sabo. Most of the writing in the anime fan community, whether it's in websites or magazines, is unfortunately very juvenile, but ANN's editorials and reviews lie very close to the bottom of the heap. Their reviews are laughably arrogant. Their review of Astro Boy refers to anime fandom as "today’s huge-breasts-big-pecs-crazy-hair-laser-sword-loving crowd", which is the fatal flaw that too often appears when juvenile, ignorant people review something that they think is enlightening ("Wow, this is so subtlely brilliant, only someone of MY superior intellect could understand it. This definitely wasn't made for the unwashed riffraff that mock my junior high newspaper articles!"). That phase lasted a full FOUR MINUTES when I saw Neon Genesis Evangelion when I was about thirteen, at which point I promptly got over myself. Sadly, it has lasted months or years at ANN. And their reaction to the New York Times scandal... I actually thought they were joking at first. I couldn't believe that some kids with an anime news site could actually take themselves so seriously. You'd think they were covering a bloody shooting war between Pioneer and Funimation over who controls the rights to Dragonball Z's first season.
The point is, I wouldn't trust them for anything more important than what day a DVD is being released, especially when they're trying to persuade you to agree with something that they're saying. Their op-eds should be viewed with the same scrutiny as a fourteen-year-old school newspaper columnist's "NO BLOOD FOR OIL!" screed. They're not giving you the transcript of either email, they're not giving you the name of the person that sent the complaint to them, they're not differentiating between Anime Junkies and their Fserv channel (an organization versus an organization's open, unmoderated forum/bazaar)... actually, they're not giving you any evidence or context whatsoever. They're just saying "Hey, we don't like these people, go fuck them up something fierce" and you're taking their claims at face value.
It also doesn't help that the guy running the Anime Junkies website is far more polite than they are. ANN is trying to get the fan community to hate, shun, and attack Anime Junkies. Anime Junkies is urging nothing like that in the other direction. I don't know about you, but I believe that when in doubt, you should trust the more mature party in an argument. I've seen few cases where someone that acts like a petulant child turns out to be the one in the right.
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| DarkZero
100th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(5):ANN is gay" , posted Mon 9 Jun 10:25
ANN has posted a transcript of the AJ email, but still refuses to name who it was at Urban Vision that emailed them or what they said in that email. Therefore, I still do not trust them. For one thing, if this anonymous woman from Urban Vision that is too scared to have people know who she is was so easily angered by a simple email from some kid, I wonder how polite the email was to begin with. If the email is genuine though, then "Joe Anime" really has no defense. He was an ass, even if she was too.
By the way, ANN has now put this story on their front page with the subtitle "Anime Junkies can rot in hell". I feel like I'm watching a slap fight between fourth-graders, here.
And yes, as someone that wonders why watching a VHS tape of Buffy the Vampire Slayer for free with my VCR set to auto-skip is okay, but watching a Japanese TV show for free with the commercials cut out is a sin against humanity that other "fans" want to put me in the stocks for, I'm sort of sympathetic to Anime Junkies. However, I still get the feeling that there's something that we're missing here. ANN is taking great pains to give people one side of the story and make sure that they don't see anything else, presenting evidence that supports them and removing anything else relevant, like the email address of the UV employee (it was changed to "[REMOVED BY TEMPEST]@urbanvision.com") and the subject of the email that she sent (it was cropped down to "RE: ..."). I find it a little hard to believe that someone would do that without reason.
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| DarkZero
101th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(1):You should be proud...." , posted Mon 9 Jun 18:14
quote:
You should be proud...To have official distributers giving you anime or manga; here on no mans land you actually have to buy fansubs; some people can download it for free as any of you do; but someone like me has to sort out cash and buy it. It's cheap (4/5 dollars VHS format -usually low quality-) and you usually get different things from the US (Mazinger Z -the whole series-, Gundam F-91) but it's money...
I'm aimnig on "buying" Mazinger Z, but that would eat my entire budget of the month.
And by the way, if I ever see a original product (may it be arcade, anime or video game console) I will faint
See, ironically, I envy you. I'm less interested in what's new and hot in Japan than I am in the series that anime producers and directors talk about in interviews as their inspiration, or "the greatest thing I've ever seen", or "the show that really had an affect on me." I'd like to see Mazinger Z, Zeta Gundam, Gundam F-91, a lot of other older series, and even just series that were fansubbed two or three years ago, which are very hard to find on the internet and absolutely impossible to find if you don't live near a big city. The only chance I had to see Initial D was when I bought some fansubs in Toronto while I was there for a few days and I've only gotten to see a little bit of Zeta Gundam from a comic shop over an hour away.
And official products are highly overrated. The Initial D fansub box set that I bought in Toronto for $30 absolutely blows my six ADV Films Bubblegum Crisis 2040 DVDs right out of the water. The translation is better, the subtitle timing is better, the menus are gorgeous, and even the box and disc art are better. And the Bubblegum Crisis DVDs cost $140USD more than Initial D.
And don't even getting me started on the DivX fansubs of Hikaru no Go that came out once a week while the episodes aired in Japan. Every piece of translated anime that I've ever paid for should bow down and worship the quality of those fansubs. The translation, the timing, the translation notes, the video quality... every detail mocks my over-priced $30-for-4-episodes "official" DVDs.
I would gladly trade the entire rack at Suncoast for some low quality Zeta Gundam VHS fansubs, but I think I'm kind of alone on that one.
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| TiamatRoar 371th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(3):You should be proud...." , posted Mon 9 Jun 22:26:
quote:
Piro needs to go stand in front of a fast moving bus as a slow one wouldn't be enough to crush his fat ass. His comic is crap, he has no back bone, and whenever something goes wrong he cries and dry humps the wall.
I never could understand random hate like this. Did Piro use his fat ass to sit on your kitty cat or something? I mean, it's not like anyone forces you to go to his website, and it's not like his website spreads blatant lies like gamegen or cammyfan as truth, and it's not like he's ever insulted you or whatever group you belong to in elitist fashion that I know of (he's too busy staying in a corner and whining to do that). Hell, even if you're one of those crazy psychos from Snowflake's RS message board, I can't find any way that Piro's comic goes against the message of justice spreading vile words that corrupt the nation's youth. This is further confounded by the fact that, "pro" or not, Piro's comic is free, and no one is forcing you to read it, anyways (and from what I can see, Piro himself doesn't exactly personally go around spamming it everywhere on the net into your face, either). Is this one of those "Waaah waaah! He's famous and I'm not! OVERRATED!! He's too overrated! (But deep down even if he is overrated, I really hate him because he's famous and I'm not. Waaaah!)" things? Since I can't find any rational reason to want to wish a fate like that car hitting him thing on a guy like Piro, terrible comic or not.
[this message was edited by TiamatRoar on Mon 9 Jun 22:29] |
| Dominant-Badtz
1th Post
New Customer
| "Re(6):ANN is gay" , posted Mon 9 Jun 22:38:
quote:
ANN has posted a transcript of the AJ email, but still refuses to name who it was at Urban Vision that emailed them or what they said in that email. Therefore, I still do not trust them. For one thing, if this anonymous woman from Urban Vision that is too scared to have people know who she is was so easily angered by a simple email from some kid, I wonder how polite the email was to begin with. If the email is genuine though, then "Joe Anime" really has no defense. He was an ass, even if she was too.
Well, the story behind censoring the actual e-mail address is to keep people from spamming the e-mail address as it already has been spammed to Hell by members in the AJ channel. And also, it was more than just one e-mail, it was the last e-mail in a series of e-mails between those two. It's common sense given that people are idiots and like to e-mail for anything. Whether you believe it or not, not my problem.
Oh yes, the Re: ... thing is not cropped. It was actually "..." kthx
[this message was edited by Dominant-Badtz on Mon 9 Jun 22:41] |
| DarkZero
104th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(7):ANN is gay" , posted Mon 9 Jun 23:18:
quote:
Well, the story behind censoring the actual e-mail address is to keep people from spamming the e-mail address as it already has been spammed to Hell by members in the AJ channel. And also, it was more than just one e-mail, it was the last e-mail in a series of e-mails between those two. It's common sense given that people are idiots and like to e-mail for anything. Whether you believe it or not, not my problem.
Oh yes, the Re: ... thing is not cropped. It was actually "..." kthx
So ANN is intentionally forwarding the angry claims of an anonymous accuser while not even giving a proper context for the story, such as the fact that there were multiple emails or, until there were repeated requests for more information, even the offending email itself. I have no idea who you are, but thanks for the firm affirmation of my claims that ANN is juvenile and untrustworthy. If they were so concerned about people getting spammed, they wouldn't be including Joe Anime's email address, since their requests that the fans "turn their backs on them" and that Anime Junkies "rot in Hell" are certainly a lot more negative than anything that was said in the article about Urban Vision or its anonymous employee. That means that ANN was just sticking up for the people that they agreed with and were willing to try to screw over Anime Junkies in any way that they could, be it by posting their email address or taking their words out of context.
Op-Eds are supposed to be biased. It's their very nature. However, without a real, unbiased article aside from that op-ed, containing the identities of both parties and exactly what took place between them, it's just biased, juvenile behavior masquerading as journalism. ANN was laughably emphatic about making sure their reporting was accurate a few weeks ago when the Jayson Blair story made national headlines, but now that they've got a point to make, that sort of thing can be put aside.
And apparently whether or not I believe it is definitely your problem, since you bothered to respond to me and tried to persuade me to think differently. Thanks for the feigned indifference, though. It's always a nice touch.
[this message was edited by DarkZero on Mon 9 Jun 23:21] |
| Dominant-Badtz
1th Post
New Customer
| "Re(8):ANN is gay" , posted Mon 9 Jun 23:38
quote:
And apparently whether or not I believe it is definitely your problem, since you bothered to respond to me and tried to persuade me to think differently. Thanks for the feigned indifference, though. It's always a nice touch.
Well, my intention was to try to inform you into what happened. If you don't believe me, c'est la vie. It's not like I wrote the ANN article(not sarcasm). People like to go "OMG UR AN F-IN LIAR AND YOU KNOW IT." as well and I use it as a warning/disclaimer. Anyway, I agree it was a little out of line of ANN to make a large editorial all about this business. His/her website though, so whatever goes. Like Rugal said a little earlier, it could've been better taken care of in privacy, because all that happened was UV asking for AJ to quit doing something and the AJ guy e-mailing back in an impolite fashion. If people know of AJ, they probably already know all the mistakes and the story about the "MASS NAKED CHILD EVENTS" already. It's just nothing new, I think it's all blown out of propotion and that people will forget about it in a week or two, unless they're retards or something. Just another case of people being jerks to one another.
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| DarkZero
109th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(7):You should be proud...." , posted Tue 10 Jun 22:23
quote:
Because you can't go using copyrighted characters all nilly-frilly without proper written concent and paying a licensing fee. The fact it's DoA is incidental it could have been Karin with a Capcom logo, Seung MiNa and Namco, Ulala and Sega, etc., etc. the joke would still be the very lame "guy with cast oggles costumed lady... she threatens to break his other arm" (and Piro or whatever his name is can't draw faces... so they both looked very dead pan killing any possiblt visual humor from the sceen as well)
If you read major comics you'll notice they find not-so-subtle ways around using other people's property. (they change names, slightly alter logos and characters, etc... enough so you know who they are and they don't need to pay anyone.) Why should Marvel and DC need to alter Kasumi and call the company "Cetmo" to do the same joke when some internet shlub gets away with it?
That truck is a cosmic leason waiting to teach all internet comic artist who release trade paperbacks you can't use other peoples characters for subpar jokes without paying... or a truck hits you!
You're forgetting the crucial bit about copyright law (at least in most developed nations): it's a civil violation, not a criminal one. That means that the act is only a violation of the law if the other party involved, which would be Namco in this case, ACTUALLY CARES. Up until the point that Namco cares, the usage of their name and characters is completely legal. You don't even need consent for it to be legal. You just need for them to not look NEGATIVELY upon it and decide to act on their negative view by suing you.
It's the same way that doujinshi works in Japan. Doujinshi artists do not have their comics pre-screened by the owners of the copyrights that they're using to make sure that they have consent. They just make and sell the doujinshi and are only legally obligated to fix the doujinshi or pay restitution for the copyright violation if the company decides to care, like when Nintendo went after a Pokemon doujinshi artist. It's not even a "let's float under the radar and see if we get away with it" sort of thing. Copyright violation is actually entirely legal until the copyright holder whose copyrights are being violated has a problem with it.
And by the way, for those that see a discrepancy there, I should note that things like trading videos of The Matrix Reloaded before its release are effectively illegal, since the company has made its stand clear and the lawsuit is simply on its way to finding you if you violate those copyrights. However, if you're violating the copyrights of a copyright holder that hasn't stated a clear intention to sue you or hasn't requested the help of law enforcement, you could trade bootleg CDs from an indie band right in front of a cop and they couldn't touch you. It's not a criminal offense and it's not any sort of offense at all until the copyright holder has a problem with it.
Also, please note that the legal precedent that forbids using someone else's intellectual property to parody something other than that intellectual property, which would be what scared Penny Arcade away from defending a cease and desist order a month or two ago, has not yet been tested in court. An appeals judge could easily find that law to be ridiculous (as I do) and strike it right down, but it will take someone with deep pockets, a lot of time, and the proper opportunity to get that done. It's not a law, but rather one judge's specific interpretation of parody law.
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| Dr Baghead 2288th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
  
| "Re(8):You should be proud...." , posted Wed 11 Jun 10:34
quote:
You're forgetting the crucial bit about copyright law (at least in most developed nations): it's a civil violation, not a criminal one. That means that the act is only a violation of the law if the other party involved, which would be Namco in this case, ACTUALLY CARES. Up until the point that Namco cares, the usage of their name and characters is completely legal. You don't even need consent for it to be legal. You just need for them to not look NEGATIVELY upon it and decide to act on their negative view by suing you.
It's the same way that doujinshi works in Japan. Doujinshi artists do not have their comics pre-screened by the owners of the copyrights that they're using to make sure that they have consent. They just make and sell the doujinshi and are only legally obligated to fix the doujinshi or pay restitution for the copyright violation if the company decides to care, like when Nintendo went after a Pokemon doujinshi artist. It's not even a "let's float under the radar and see if we get away with it" sort of thing. Copyright violation is actually entirely legal until the copyright holder whose copyrights are being violated has a problem with it.
And by the way, for those that see a discrepancy there, I should note that things like trading videos of The Matrix Reloaded before its release are effectively illegal, since the company has made its stand clear and the lawsuit is simply on its way to finding you if you violate those copyrights. However, if you're violating the copyrights of a copyright holder that hasn't stated a clear intention to sue you or hasn't requested the help of law enforcement, you could trade bootleg CDs from an indie band right in front of a cop and they couldn't touch you. It's not a criminal offense and it's not any sort of offense at all until the copyright holder has a problem with it.
Also, please note that the legal precedent that forbids using someone else's intellectual property to parody something other than that intellectual property, which would be what scared Penny Arcade away from defending a cease and desist order a month or two ago, has not yet been tested in court. An appeals judge could easily find that law to be ridiculous (as I do) and strike it right down, but it will take someone with deep pockets, a lot of time, and the proper opportunity to get that done. It's not a law, but rather one judge's specific interpretation of parody law.
Alright then fine, the bus is karma for not only telling the second lamest joke possible using a DoA Character (the first would need to have them wearing pearls or something and then being asked "are those real?") but also for involving a personal pet peve of mine: comic characters meeting videogame characters/designs like it was nothing.(it's happening less in Penny Arcade, but a lot of comics that think they're Penny Arcade have weekly visits from John Romero or Lara Croft, who the comics main character then ridicules)
Devil May Cry:the movie - A ViewAskew Production?
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| Radish 1338th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(9):You should be proud...." , posted Wed 11 Jun 11:54
quote:
Alright then fine, the bus is karma for not only telling the second lamest joke possible using a DoA Character (the first would need to have them wearing pearls or something and then being asked "are those real?") but also for involving a personal pet peve of mine: comic characters meeting videogame characters/designs like it was nothing.(it's happening less in Penny Arcade, but a lot of comics that think they're Penny Arcade have weekly visits from John Romero or Lara Croft, who the comics main character then ridicules)
Um, you do realize that the comic in question takes place at E3 and the girl is a booth babe in a Kasumi costume. It doesn't make the comic any funnier, though I agree.
quote:
Also, please note that the legal precedent that forbids using someone else's intellectual property to parody something other than that intellectual property, which would be what scared Penny Arcade away from defending a cease and desist order a month or two ago, has not yet been tested in court. An appeals judge could easily find that law to be ridiculous (as I do) and strike it right down, but it will take someone with deep pockets, a lot of time, and the proper opportunity to get that done. It's not a law, but rather one judge's specific interpretation of parody law.
I personally feel that one of the greatest flaws in our justice system is the ability of large corperations to continually sue small companies/individuals over bogus precedents or laws until they go bankrupt defending themselves. If the defendants win in such a case, I feel that the plaintifs should pay their court fees plus time wasted in court.
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| Radish 1340th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(2):Re(10):You should be proud...." , posted Wed 11 Jun 13:55:
It pains me to defend Megatokyo but...
quote:
Um, you do realize that the comic in question takes place at E3 and the girl is a booth babe in a Kasumi costume. It doesn't make the comic any funnier, though I agree.
Well aware of such, but I still count girls dressed like DoA girls in that catagory since every goddamm inter-web comic featured a girl dressed like Kasumi at some point or another interacting with the regulars... because I doubt one girl could be in so many different places or so many different girls would wear a Kasumi costume, "Kasumi Cosplay" is no better then having John Romero, Lara Croft, or some other videogame related person in your comic.
Said character is now a regular although she is going down a standard (i.e boring) plotpath where she is a celebrity in hiding for some reason. I don't really see the problem since the setting was e3, which was fitting for the character to be in such an outfit. I would agree with you if they were at 7-11 and Kasumi (or someone acting as her) walked to the counter with a slurpee, but there really isn't such a stretch here.
quote:
and wouldn't a Tecmo booth girl be more likely to wear a shirt that says "Tecmo" instead of dress like Kasumi? (after all Tecmo makes a wide array of products like DoA, Monster Rancher, and others maybe)
Tecmo's large enough to have a bevy of girls advertising their games at e3. For example...
Lei Fang and Tina
Christie
Apparently Michelle is Kasumi
Monster Rancher The girl in the middle looks like she's about to cry...
EDIT: The guys in these shots look like huge losers...
[this message was edited by Radish on Wed 11 Jun 13:59] |
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"Unethical Fansubbers" 
"Re(3):Unethical Fansubbers" 
L
"Re(5):Unethical Fansubbers" 
"You should be proud...." 
"Re(10):JUANN is extremely gay" 
