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| NARUTO 1553th Post
 
Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
    
    
    
    
|  "Video games diseases...(very long post!!)"
, posted Mon 19 May 11:47
Well, since it seems that my poll about 3D KOF was "badly" made I will try to speek about the subject in an other way. Since the cafe is one of the rare place wher we can speek about anything without being flamed or insulted I will throw here maybe an hard suject of discuss, the problem in video games evolution.
Of coures all of this is just my opinion an nobody is forced to share it or acept it.
I will call it the "Video game disease"! (hard name huh?)
the 3 disease in IMO are: the : 3D graphisms every where.
the Online games.
And the "I never listen to my fan enymore "spirit that game developer have.
OK le'ts strat whith the 3D "problem":
IMO at the beginnig like every one I was thinking that the 3D will open many things, and like developer said to bring us more liberty….they where wrong IMO the 2 mario games in 3D (like DK64 and banjo kazooie too) are IMO more restrictives….
And now all editor seems to turn everything in 3D, sports game, beat them all, platrom games, fighting games…
For some of them the change was a good thing, IMO I don't see now a driving game in 2D when grant turismo 3 is out!! but some other have IMO nothing to do in 3D or to be precise need to stay in 2D.
the mario game like before are IMO a good exemple, all the 3D version was suposed to bring us more freedom, BUT NO! IMO those 2 where boring, in the older mario you have many way to finish a level and ALL you need to do was finishing the level, now they give you tasks, and strangely allways the same…
in the old on the 100 coin thing was just for fun with an extra live at the end now in each nintendo 3D platform they became obligatory and the fact that 100 coin, or 100 bananas, or 100 musical note gives you a star, a shine, a puzzle piece isn't really difrent, where is the liberty is you need to do everything in a level to progress and if all games and level look the same?????
In the old mario you even got the choice to do all level or not!! the 96 level chanlenge in mario world is a fre choice for the player, in mario sunshine you don't have this choice you have to finish them all……
And like said before in all 3D nintendo platform game (those are a good exemple) you got some tasks but all task are the same, if you look closely in the 2 mario, DK or Banjo games how many times you have the collect the 100 thing? how many time a race against someone? have many time the search item things?
even the characters movement are really close now!!
IN 2D games onlu up,down;left,right movement but a fredom never again, the fact that I can choose my way in the game as I wish, the liberty to chose to make some level or not, and a true difrence between title!!!!
For fighting games it's IMO the same, of course here to school exist, the 3D and 2D one.
But IMO those have to never meet each other 2D title should nevr be make in 3D and 3D gamees never in 2D.
Just a guess, what will you think of a 2D virtua fighter 4??? what such a game could ofer to us????
IMO nothing this game have been made for his 3D evironement without this the game will be just a simple button mashing game, of course it' s a good game I'm not teling that 3D VS game are bad just that 2D shouldn't turn in 3D.
So far 2D titles that have been turned into 3D aren't glorious title( the SF title, FFwild ambititon…) we all know that the 2D gameplay doesn't fit(IMO!!), there it to much things that disappear or turn useless. the air-play for exemple he doesn't exist in 3D title and in 3D games with 2D gameplay we all know the "cosmonaut jump" problem… combos doesn't work the same ether, and fireball moves turn to be useless since a simple step allow you to avoid them….where is the utility to spend a power bar when you already knows that you oponent will avoid it easily…IMO I keep it for other moves.. in the last day I have a chance to play the SS64 game( see my post for Rugalberstein) I maybe make him sad but this game isn't as funa SS4 or SS2 for exemple, IMO this game just got a storyline who rocks, but an empty gameplay….
So when I heard that Kof will be turned in 3D I fear for the worst, I could be wrong (and somewhere hopes for!) but I don't think that they'll turn it into a VF4evo like quality graphisms like, I don't think that they've found the 3D air-play and jump problem, and they surely can foind a way to avoid the useless "fireball" like moves…except if they don't add a 3D step movement, but in this case why making it in 3D??????
And as a last word on it, IMO if so much peoples got a GBA it's not only becase it easy to bring it eveywhere, but it's the only support where 2D game still exist….
the 2nd "sickness" will be the Online game problem, it's seems that like the 3D eveything should turn in a online game, IMO, NO!!!!!!!
Sor far, for me (maybe only me) online games sucks!!!!!!!! they are in most part repetitive , doesn't have a story at all, is the best way to find cheater, and finaly doesn't create contact with peoples but show them more diferencies….
lets see the boring part , so far most of online game are really repetitives, for Exemple Diablo and Fantasy star , and FF11 are justa boring monster kill soft, nothing else that spending times to kill moster and nothing else…FPS idem this alway shoot every body, sometime capture a flag but shooting before…
Did any editor have got the idea of a cooperative solo mode like?????
is it so hard to but a storyline in a online RPG???? IMOany rpg that already exist could be done online all the thing is that each player play as a characters. for exemple a player for tidus an other for yuna in FFX….
the cheater part, yeah the big problem , no solution seems to have been found so far diablo is full of player killer, and it'seems easy to create your own item fur this, overpowered of course…..
And I don't talk about those who say that they help you to level up and them just wait that you died and then take all you stuff for them, (diablo, and fantasy star are full of those guys) and If they're banned they comme with a new name and a new e-mail adress……..great no???
IMO like I said before online game doesn't creat contact, they ruin them….If I wish to see soem new faces I'm going on boards or chat, online games sufer that all country aren't at the same level in internet technology and it seems to turn out as a rich sports!
If I wish to play agaisnt someone I call my friend, goes in shop or arcads center to find some new opponent and maybe future friends, so there is no online party that bring me as fun as a little turnament make in my game shop!!! not one… and if online meens to be a slave of is coumputer, to never go out again, to only speek to people with a counputer, this way no, online is more a bad thing than a good one….
If the medias can bring such bad publicity to video games like the "cyber additcs" or the japanese "hikimori" problem it was in big parts the online fault, of course media already bash video games before but the online have IMO make the things worst…..
the programmer problem now, this problem can be seen every where in every editor….in the past time I remeber edtitor to be much aware of fan wishes…now they just do whet they want and blame the customer if their games doesn't sell….
the 2 best exemple I got here are Castelvania, and CFAS….
Sinec how many time fan a crying for a true sequel , a game in 2D and on home console???
but konami seems to doesn't care they still do 2D games on GBA , when fan wish them on ps2 for exemple, and when they finaly make it for ps2 it sufer the first problem, the "it must be done in 3D".
Well I'm not telling that the new Castelvania is a bad game, I'm just telling that it isn't what fan are waiting for!!!! When a True Symphony of night 2 on pss2 in 2D , (a lot's of 2 here..) here konami will make their fan true wishes…..
For CFAS, when I play it , it was a bad game (see upper foe 2D/3D vs game) really I'm not a good Japan speaker, but for what I've heard most of peoples will have frefered a 2D game….
Once again if Capcom have seriously listen his fan it wasn't CFAS the most awaiting game, at this time it have been a Street fighter 4 , a Vampire savior 4, a new warzard, a Marvel vs Capcom 3 that should out…Why because fan wants 2D game, not 3D one but 2D one and some tittle they're waiting for a long time….
Well all that to say that IMO if the game market is low, it's because magnificent lack of inteligence from editor who don't care about costumer wishes, who makes game without thinking to it before and just fell in the 3D madness without any opinion from their Fan/customer.. the online,tools that isn't safe enough for such thing, ( the 2 problem that piracy and emulation are, where born with the net) who alows some "overfllowing"…
Of course such are just my though, and if I've writen this is just to know yours.
PS: excuse the MANY typo error that obviouly be here.
thanks.
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| DKW
221th Post
Frequent Customer
| "3D" , posted Mon 19 May 23:54
Geez, and people whine and rant about the length of my posts. 
I think that 3D has, on the whole, been a great development. I also think that any game that uses 3D space is justified in being 3D, even if the movement/action is primarily 2D (the Klonoa games are a good example). However, it's not a magic wand, and it doesn't make a bad game good.
And it's definitely overused. There's absolutely no reason for Street Fighter EX or Rival Schools to be 3D other than the "cool" factor (and the response to both franchises has been mixed at best). And the producers of Bloody Roar should've concentrated on making the GAMEPLAY better, not the graphics.
I don't think there's really anything we can do about it...one of the big selling points of the new consoles is power, and 2D graphics, no matter how elaborate, will never be able to compete. Thankfully, 3D has been around long enough that the cheap potboilers are much fewer than they used to be.
(Yeah, I know, it stinks that sidescrollers are pretty much dead. That's videogaming, pal.)
homepage - http://home.hawaii.rr.com/dkwff
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| The Big Bad
30th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(1):Video games diseases...(very long post!" , posted Tue 20 May 00:41
Well, what do you know; I disagree completely with you. The following is a very long resposnse to a very long post.
I think you're framing 3-D for a crime it didn't commit. The restrictions in a game have nothing to do with the planes of movement in a videogame; it is just a decision made by the developers, and any relationship between the two is arbitrary. For example, Yoshi's Island, a 2-d game, is much more linear than Super Mario 64 or even Super Mario Sunshine. As for the prevalence of item collecting and similar tasks, they are also not exclusive to 3-d games, and completely unrelated. Once again, I present to you as evidence Yoshi's Island, a game which had a heavy emphasis in item collecting and whose goal in each level was exactly the same: get to the other side of the stage. In fact, as you yourself have said, every platformer had this same goal, with no variations.
As to online games, this is merely a matter of opinion, as you are in no way obligated to play any of these games, and I in no way think of this as a disease, since most games' online options are there as an alternative to the vs mode.
As for developers not listening to their fans, all I have to say is THANK GOB (or some other minor deity). Listening to the fans would herald the end of innovation and signal the end of videogaming. If developers actually listened to their fans, we would have missed out on some great stuff, such as 3-d gaming (which means no Mario's 64 and Sunshine; no Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, or Wind Waker; no Metroid Prime, no Devil May Cry, etc.). Also, every game would be a rehash, (despite fan complaints that they don't want one). One perfect example of how listening to the fans made the games suffer, KoF 2002. Playmore gave fans what they wanted, most of the popular characters on one game, the consequence: a very unoriginal, if very competent rehash of KoF 98.
"So you think you're the big bad now huh?"-Spike from Buffy.
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| Time Mage 1467th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(1):Video games diseases...(very long post!" , posted Tue 20 May 06:53
OK, quick reply:
3D Games:
I kinda agree on this. Now, if you want a game to be good it looks like it has to be done in 3D: FALSE. However, that doesn't mean that the traditional genres are instantly bad when turned in to 3D. I enjoy very much SM64 and, to a lesser extent, SMS. Banjo-Kazooie was ver good, also. I know what you are trying to say about the lack of freedom, and that's true in some games. Take as an example of that DK64: so many things to do, and most of them nearly obligatory. However, SM64 and, to a lesser extent, SMS had many freedom. You only need 70 stars/shines to finish the game, that's less than 60% of the game. Also, in SM64, you can find whatever stars you want, there are nearly any required order. And, ALSO, many missions can be done in different ways. I call that freedom.
Also, I love 2D platformers as much as 3D ones, but some of my favourites are very linear, like Yoshi's Island. Makes that the game bad? Hell no!
Online Gaming:
I used to think as you, and I agree partially, but a) they're not as massive as 3D games (still very few ones offer online gaming), and b) They're not as bad as I thought! I'm lately playing RO, as you may know, and the game is fun. Sure, is not Wind Waker (3D AND good, btw), but is fun enough to play.
Not hearing fans:
I want an intermediate point. Don't base your games in fans requests, but don't also ignore them. Is that simple, and applicable to the above points.
As Aristotle said, the middle term is the best option.
(At the end this has become a not-so-quick reply ^_^)
Vanessa Z. Schneider!!
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| Toxico 2957th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
   
|  "Here we go again..."
, posted Tue 20 May 08:21:
So wrong, so wrong...
I do request you to heed the 3D caracteristics of the game: Fatal Fury 1, 2, 3, RB 1, 2 & Special, Agressor of Dark Kombat, Savage Regin WERE 3D, because they involved 3D movement, where as Tekken 1, 2, Soul Edge, Virtua Fighter 1 & 2, Street Fighter EX and the SF EX secuels WEREN'T 3D as they did not incorporated any true 3D movement to the game.
Ha ha ha ha ha... So your ranting is more focused to raster created games (what you rudely call "2D" ) vs poligons created games (again, your "3D"); and as to that I'll have to say that the caracteristics added to the game are merely planned by the programming crew; not necessarily imposed by they "3D features", and I have to say that I agree with none of the statements that you have given.
If the game sucks (DoA for example) it's because the programmers made it suck, not because it's a poligons created games. And the one thing I extremely hate of poligons based games are that programmers ALWAYS share moves between the characters; look at Soul Calibur, I think the game is Ok and everything BUT everyone runs the same, and it's even worst in Tekken.
[this message was edited by Toxico on Tue 20 May 08:26] |
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