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| DKW
219th Post
 
Frequent Customer
    
|  "Bao hating. PLEASE explain. Coherently."
, posted Thu 15 May 13:00
You know what, while I certainly don't relish repeatedly asking questions that just don't seem to have answers (Beavis and Butthead universally loved by everybody, Ren & Stimply universally loved by everybody, Eric Cartman getting away with murder 100% of the time supposedly being a good thing), sometimes not knowing is even worse.
So then. Why is Bao so hated?
Well, let me start with my take. Bao, IMHO, was introduced because SNK wanted someone unique and unusual, and they wanted to go somewhere with him. Since there were already so many conventional, ordinary, plain, serious competitors in KOF, adding this one offbeat character wasn't really a problem. Furthermore, having someone almost entirely devoted to missile attacks...at a time when their effectiveness was seriously toned down...was certainly an interesting twist. I think he belongs every bit as much as Chang Koehan, Choi Bounge, Athena Asamiya, Robert Garcia, Ralf, Clark, Billy Kane, and Joe Higashi.
Now, the arguments against. Huh. One of the reasons it's hard to take this "overwhelming hatred" seriously is that EVERY argument I've ever heard has come across as mindless, incomprehensible ranting. I seriously doubt that half the Bao haters have the foggiest idea why they hate him. Which is why I remain unconvinced. I don't care if it's a pound of garbage or a thousand tons of garbage, it's still garbage.
Anyway, lemme list the rap against him. These are all actual arguments I've seen on various message boards:
1. He's so annoying!
Look, anyone's annoying before you figure out how to beat them. Personally, I find unbeatable supergod bosses like Dio from World Heroes 2 vastly more annoying than a little kid with a bunch of Psycho Balls.
2. He's cheap!
Pfft. Him and about several billion others. Go play Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance sometime.
3. He bounces around a lot!
You kidding me? This sounds like something a 3rd grader would come up with. And anyway, why isn't bounciness considered a bad thing with Mai Shiranui? And if it's full-screen mobility you're talking about, ever hear of Choi Bounge? Or Seth? Or Leona?
4. He'd be better as a girl!
Oh, so the reason he's so terrible is that he doesn't conform to tired anime convention? Exactly why is that a bad thing?
5. He tosses a lot of Psycho Balls!
Notwithstanding that that's how you're supposed to friggin' play him, a missile attack is hardly an invincible stopper. The SF2 era is OVER. There are ways to beat the fireball. If you're completely unable to make the adjustment, it's YOUR fault. That's almost an unwritten law of fighting games, for crying out loud.
6. It's really easy to beat Krizalid with him!
So now we're supposed to get all bleeding-heart over the bosses? Whoever came up with this should be forced to take on General from Kaiser Knuckle. 200 times. In a row.
7. KOF is a totally super-realistic ultraserious game, and Bao doesn't fit in at all!
Get frickin' OUTTA here. Hey, I'm telling you point-blank that any tournament that admits Sie Kensu, Chin Gentsai, Athena Asamiya, Hinako Shijo, Chang Koehan, Choi Bounge, Mai Shiranui, Joe Higahsi, Billy Kane, Yuri Sakazaki, Lin, Ramon, Li Xiangfei, Maylee Jinju, and Angel has any right to call itself totally serious. If you want totally serious fighitng, play Virtua Fighter or any of the UFC titles. Not this.
And that's the best I got. Needless to say, I need a tad more convincing that that. Anyone care to step up?
homepage - http://home.hawaii.rr.com/dkwff
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| Undead Fred 591th Post
New Red Carpet Member
 
    
| "Re(2):Bao hating. PLEASE explain. Coherentl" , posted Thu 15 May 13:48
quote:
I think the main problem most people have with him is that they don't like his design at all. I don't like him as a character, either, really. I don't HATE him, I could just care less about him. His space would be better filled by other people.
I hate Bao for more or less the same reason. I hate the character. I just find him annoying. It's not really because of his moves, it's just that he's irritating as a CHARACTER, not necessarily because of his moves. As it's been said before, it's my opinion, and I don't really have a list of reasons that I've sat down and thought out an argument for. I just don't like him. And it's for a lot of reasons why I don't like Choi. As for "it's really east to beat Krizalid with him," I've got NO problem being cheap against KOF's bosses, because they're so cheap to begin with. I mean, Krizalid throws a million cyclones in a row, so why should I feel bad for using Leona to throw a million eploding earrings at him? I hate resorting to that, but I figured I'd teach him a lesson. I don't think Bao's hard to beat, I just can't stand him because I find his character to be irritating.
Whee! Summertime!
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| OmegaDog 640th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "A couple of comments on your delivery, DKW..." , posted Thu 15 May 15:56:
quote:
And that's the best I got. Needless to say, I need a tad more convincing that that. Anyone care to step up?
Lessons for future reference, DKW:
1) Don't end posts with tones indicating that other people are required to prove a concept to you. It robs the post of any feeling of humility.
2) Good debates are one of the spices of life -- but a good debate needs to start with a less indignant tone. (Although, rereading your post, I don't know whether the overriding purpose of your post was to begin a debate or simply to vent. You ask questions in your post, but the overall post reads like more of a statement of disagreement.)
That said, you might be more at peace with yourself if you accept that others may have differing opinions for reasons for which you may not agree.
I happen to like Bao. I also happen to like the European version of Contra (Probotector). I didn't really understand why people disliked them, and I actually still don't see eye-to-eye with them. It doesn't phase me, though. With Probotector, I still like the robot designs where others see symbolisms of censorship, but it wasn't much to change my tag around to the original Contra designs so that my av and tag didn't strike people the wrong way. (Besides, Fang still qualifies as robotic. ;] ) And, I see a cute and funny character in Bao where others see the embodiment of annoyance -- that doesn't keep me, though, from getting a kick out of Magus Darkstar's "I HATE BAO" tags.
Point being: Don't let differing opinions with reasons you don't agree with bother you too much. If the differing opinions really bother you, ask about them -- but if you feel people need to take more into consideration, express your feelings in less indignant tones.
"IT'S PAYBACK TIME..." "LOCKED AND LOADED!" | CCT: NEXT STAGE IS 13 |
[this message was edited by OmegaDog on Thu 15 May 17:51] |
| Hungrywolf 1966th Post
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
   
    
 
| "Re(1):A couple of comments on your delivery, " , posted Thu 15 May 20:48
quote:
And that's the best I got. Needless to say, I need a tad more convincing that that. Anyone care to step up?
Lessons for future reference, DKW:
1) Don't end posts with tones indicating that other people are required to prove a concept to you. It robs the post of any feeling of humility.
2) Good debates are one of the spices of life -- but a good debate needs to start with a less indignant tone. (Although, rereading your post, I don't know whether the overriding purpose of your post was to begin a debate or simply to vent. You ask questions in your post, but the overall post reads like more of a statement of disagreement.)
That said, you might be more at peace with yourself if you accept that others may have differing opinions for reasons for which you may not agree.
I happen to like Bao. I also happen to like the European version of Contra (Probotector). I didn't really understand why people disliked them, and I actually still don't see eye-to-eye with them. It doesn't phase me, though. With Probotector, I still like the robot designs where others see symbolisms of censorship, but it wasn't much to change my tag around to the original Contra designs so that my av and tag didn't strike people the wrong way. (Besides, Fang still qualifies as robotic. ;] ) And, I see a cute and funny character in Bao where others see the embodiment of annoyance -- that doesn't keep me, though, from getting a kick out of Magus Darkstar's "I HATE BAO" tags.
Point being: Don't let differing opinions with reasons you don't agree with bother you too much. If the differing opinions really bother you, ask about them -- but if you feel people need to take more into consideration, express your feelings in less indignant tones.
Heh, I like Bao too. I just have to deal with the fact most people hate him. Of course, I don't really hate any characters I guess. Not that I can think of anyway. (From Kof and Street Fighter anyway, I do despise Tekken, except for Christie, and people may say I have no reason for it, but I don't care, I think the majority of fighting games are far better than Tekken).
"Someday we'll find it the rainbow connection..." -Kermit The Muppet Movie
Hungry Like the Wolf
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| DKW
220th Post
Frequent Customer
| "All right..." , posted Sun 18 May 20:58
...I don't think it's wrong to hate a character. But when someone claims that a character is UNIVERSALLY hated, and I don't hear one reason for it that makes a flippin' ounce of sense, it bothers me. Dammit, I'm shocked that almost none of you are bothered by it. Sorry if this puts anyone off, but that's how it is, dammit.
Just for the record, there are plenty of KOF issues that I've long since given up trying to get answers for (why marginalizing 95% of the cast is a good thing, why Mary acts like Southdown didn't bite the dust in '01, why Rugal's the only boss who can keep coming bac, etc.). This one I figure should be pretty easy, so I had no qualms about putting it up.
Oh, one more thing...my beef with little girls in fighting games is that they're an overused cliche, and, almost without exception, not allowed to mature. Not aging I can see...sorta...but never evolving past whatever messy state of mind they began with (paging Sakura Kasugano!) bugs me. Even so, I don't really have a beef with the KOF contingent. I have no trouble accepting Athena Asamiya as a pop idol with plenty of expectations placed on her, Hinako Shijo as an old-school cutie, or Mai Shiranui as...well, a bimbo. I certainly don't hate them, let alone want them out of KOF, let alone want them to die, and certainly not FOR NO GOOD REASON. See the difference?
OmegaDog - Okay, there's one thing you gotta understand...this was one of those topics that kept coming up over and over and OVER, and after a while it just drove me nuts. "Indignant" isn't a strong enough word. I've heard players harp on other KOF characters, but never to the ridiculous extreme that Bao has received. At least one poseter put "I hate Bao" in a freaking animated signature. Did I mention that not one person offered even a halfway plausible reason?
Believe me, when something gnaws on you that much, it's hard to be polite.
Kikkoken - "Disharmonious." Oh, great, now on top of everything else, video game designers have to worry about feng shui. 
Seriously...yeah, I could kinda see that, but you can say the same for Chang Koehan (way big), Billy Kane (that weapon), Benimaru Nikaido (effeminate), K9999 (do you have to ask?), etc. Or Shizumaru Hisame, who, as I remember, was incredibly popular. Why single out Bao? Particularly to the extent of wanting to kill him? You get the idea.
OYashiroForever - Yes, yes, fine, understood. Again, dislike, okay. Irrational hatred, problem. I'd like to think I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Good poing about fanboysim. Gotta admit, it's made it awfully hard for the people who design these characters (and man, do I feel some sympathy for them). You do your research, plan, design, correct, design again, work for months getting them juuust right...and then you don't have the foggiest idea if they're going to be fan favorites or the target of mindless death threats. Don't get me started on Rainbow Mika...
everyone - Thanks to everyone who gave good answers (and it's no exaggeration when I say that these are the first good answers I've ever seen).
The moral, I suppose, is that sometimes there's no explaining hatred. I certainly know that lesson well.
homepage - http://home.hawaii.rr.com/dkwff
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| Undead Fred 608th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(1):All right..." , posted Sun 18 May 23:51
quote:
...I don't think it's wrong to hate a character. But when someone claims that a character is UNIVERSALLY hated, and I don't hear one reason for it that makes a flippin' ounce of sense, it bothers me. Dammit, I'm shocked that almost none of you are bothered by it. Sorry if this puts anyone off, but that's how it is, dammit.
Just for the record, there are plenty of KOF issues that I've long since given up trying to get answers for (why marginalizing 95% of the cast is a good thing, why Mary acts like Southdown didn't bite the dust in '01, why Rugal's the only boss who can keep coming bac, etc.). This one I figure should be pretty easy, so I had no qualms about putting it up.
Oh, one more thing...my beef with little girls in fighting games is that they're an overused cliche, and, almost without exception, not allowed to mature. Not aging I can see...sorta...but never evolving past whatever messy state of mind they began with (paging Sakura Kasugano!) bugs me. Even so, I don't really have a beef with the KOF contingent. I have no trouble accepting Athena Asamiya as a pop idol with plenty of expectations placed on her, Hinako Shijo as an old-school cutie, or Mai Shiranui as...well, a bimbo. I certainly don't hate them, let alone want them out of KOF, let alone want them to die, and certainly not FOR NO GOOD REASON. See the difference?
OmegaDog - Okay, there's one thing you gotta understand...this was one of those topics that kept coming up over and over and OVER, and after a while it just drove me nuts. "Indignant" isn't a strong enough word. I've heard players harp on other KOF characters, but never to the ridiculous extreme that Bao has received. At least one poseter put "I hate Bao" in a freaking animated signature. Did I mention that not one person offered even a halfway plausible reason?
Believe me, when something gnaws on you that much, it's hard to be polite.
Kikkoken - "Disharmonious." Oh, great, now on top of everything else, video game designers have to worry about feng shui.
Seriously...yeah, I could kinda see that, but you can say the same for Chang Koehan (way big), Billy Kane (that weapon), Benimaru Nikaido (effeminate), K9999 (do you have to ask?), etc. Or Shizumaru Hisame, who, as I remember, was incredibly popular. Why single out Bao? Particularly to the extent of wanting to kill him? You get the idea.
OYashiroForever - Yes, yes, fine, understood. Again, dislike, okay. Irrational hatred, problem. I'd like to think I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Good poing about fanboysim. Gotta admit, it's made it awfully hard for the people who design these characters (and man, do I feel some sympathy for them). You do your research, plan, design, correct, design again, work for months getting them juuust right...and then you don't have the foggiest idea if they're going to be fan favorites or the target of mindless death threats. Don't get me started on Rainbow Mika...
everyone - Thanks to everyone who gave good answers (and it's no exaggeration when I say that these are the first good answers I've ever seen).
The moral, I suppose, is that sometimes there's no explaining hatred. I certainly know that lesson well.
First off, I like R. Mika. I don't where that argument's going, but I figured I'd put my vote in favor of her. Whatever.
As for your ranting- dude, sometimes people have an opinion of something. It can be very strong, and not logically mapped out or whatever. I can't stand Bao just because I find him irritating and his design isn't appealing to me. I don't see why this is a problem. Not to attack YOU or anything, but I don't like Raiden either. Once again, I just do not like his character design. Not because I've done research on him or something and found that he's not suitable for complex strings of blah blah blah blah, but just because I don't like him. I reserve the right to hate Bao just like anyone else, and with no better reason than I don't like the character. I wish you wouldn't take the "I hate Bao" stuff so personally and calm down some.
Whee! Summertime!
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| Toxico 2950th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(2):All right..."
, posted Mon 19 May 06:08
quote:
The one thing I have learnt is that human beings can love, hate, safe, kill, construct, destroy.....and do heck of a lot of others without any reason at all.
And there is nothing you can do about that irrationality.
I do agree, sometimes there is a matter of taste; taste can be traced and explained, but it's hard to; I think that everything has an explanation, but I as a human can not get a grip of them all.
As for me I think that hate is a powerful and well, "pure" felling that does affect you, thus I save it for only those "especial moments", I believe not many things deserve hate.
Those where my other two cents.
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"Re(1):Bao hating. PLEASE explain. Coherentl" 
