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| Dr Baghead 2130th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
    
|  "LIES!"
, posted Sun 11 May 21:36
quote:
Link Here
Sprited Away is great, don't get me wrong... but anime is hardly the greatest thing ever made.
I'm too tired to argue, as I could say things like "techincally anime is animated no better then Ed, Edd, and Eddy... it only differs stylicisty" or "there is much anime not imported to America that is HORRIBLE, poor in both story and art quality"
But I choose not to dwell on such, as not only will it fall on deaf ears and the point of the article was Spirited Away could help us believe again... and sadly even that is not true.
Spirited Away did far worse at the box office then Disney's own Treasure Planet. (i believe Treasure Planet opened at 5 while SA opened at 20 in wide release) Spirited Away will not inspire or change the American animation industry, as in this world of money and greed things that are emulated are not those that inspire, but those that bring wealth.
And if I my go farther off on a tangent, movie animation as a whole is passed it's prime... I'm sure everyone can agree Spirited Away is far from Miyazaki's best work (I prefer Kiki myself, though many seem to prefer Mononoke) and as far as praising from the academy goes, Beauty and the Beast trumps SA (for it was up for "Best Picture", it was deemed worthy to go toe to with the big boys... if Spirited Away was as impressive as it's hyped to be it would have been up for Best Picture, Best Animated Picture, AND Best Foreign Picture)
dead
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| RugalBernstein 3972th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(1):LIES!" , posted Sun 11 May 21:47
quote:
Link Here
Sprited Away is great, don't get me wrong... but anime is hardly the greatest thing ever made.
I'm too tired to argue, as I could say things like "techincally anime is animated no better then Ed, Edd, and Eddy... it only differs stylicisty" or "there is much anime not imported to America that is HORRIBLE, poor in both story and art quality"
But I choose not to dwell on such, as not only will it fall on deaf ears and the point of the article was Spirited Away could help us believe again... and sadly even that is not true.
Spirited Away did far worse at the box office then Disney's own Treasure Planet. (i believe Treasure Planet opened at 5 while SA opened at 20 in wide release) Spirited Away will not inspire or change the American animation industry, as in this world of money and greed things that are emulated are not those that inspire, but those that bring wealth.
And if I my go farther off on a tangent, movie animation as a whole is passed it's prime... I'm sure everyone can agree Spirited Away is far from Miyazaki's best work (I prefer Kiki myself, though many seem to prefer Mononoke) and as far as praising from the academy goes, Beauty and the Beast trumps SA (for it was up for "Best Picture", it was deemed worthy to go toe to with the big boys... if Spirited Away was as impressive as it's hyped to be it would have been up for Best Picture, Best Animated Picture, AND Best Foreign Picture)
I think the truth here is that it's all a matter of taste, not fact. ;D
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| DKW
218th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Gah." , posted Sun 11 May 23:41
Well, I was all set fire off a rip-roarin' rebuttal that'd blast this thing to embers...but after actually reading through the whole thing, all I can think is, "Say what?"
This entire column smacks of a writer trying to run off a last-minute idea while trying to sound intelligent. Nothing that'll actually inform or help anybody.
And I feel this must be said: Not all anime is serious, deep, epic, and "adult." A lot of it is funny, a lot of it is wacky, a lot of it is geared to children (and not just cheap potboiler stuff like Pokemon), and there are MANY that are every bit as cartoony as our domestic products. A lot of it, BTW, is the kind that I actually like.
I don't need anime movies to inspire my imagination. That's what video games are for. 
homepage - http://home.hawaii.rr.com/dkwff
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| Fuchikoma 392th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(1):Gah." , posted Mon 12 May 00:05
Yeah, this guy obviously hasn't done his homework on the subject and is still infatuated by his first couple glimpses of a serious anime movie. Spirited Away is great and touching movie, but I have to agree it's not the best Ghibli movie made, Totoro, Kiki, Mononoke Hime, and especially Grave of Fireflies are better movies. The thing is the average american just doesn't have the access to these anime. They see one or two shows and they form an opinion on the entire anime industry from that. I don't know how many times in highschool when people saw my art was in an anime influenced style and I heard things like "oh anime, that's with all the naked chicks getting raped by monsters" or "oh anime, that's like sailor moon right, is that sailor moon in the picture?" It's because at the time they only had access to tapes like Vampire Hunter D and Ninja Scroll... and the only anime on TV was syndicated versions of Sailor moon, Dragon Ball, and Teknoman. The industry in the US has grown a great bit since then... and with Spirited Away winning the Oscar, we'll see more anime in theaters. Cowboy Bebop is out there now, Dreamworks picked up the rights for Millenium Actress, and of course that live action DBZ movie in the works. So as always, we'll have the good with the bad. I think this reviewer needs to rent a copy of Apocalypse Zero.
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| OYashiroForever
204th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(1):Anime: The greatest thing ever made, ev" , posted Mon 12 May 00:32
I would normally step in here, jump up on the pulpit, and deliver a sermon on moderation and "grass is greener" syndrome (there's a $64 word for that, but it's 3am and I'm in no mood to hunt through the thesaurus), but frankly it's not worth it and several folks have already made the majority of the points I would've anyway (thank yous go out to Baghead and Rugal for saving me the trouble). This, of course, doesn't prevent me from throwing in my .02 and change.
I'd like to start off by saying I don't like Miyazaki films. Never have. I don't hate them (there are very few things in this life that I truly hate)... they just don't evoke any kind of emotion out of me. Which is so thoroughly odd. Normally, I'm very much in to pretentious arty-type films, not to mention anime and the Japanese culture/way of thinking. But Miyazaki films (I haven't seen Spirited Away, but I've seen Kiki, Mononoke Hime, and Laputa) have always left me feeling totally empty and ultimately unsatisfied. They obviously don't have the dumb, brainless action/violence/gore that can be entertaining if done properly and in a fresh way. In addition, the symbolism and intelligent discussion on life, love, happiness, etc. in Miyazaki films always seems so stilted, clumsy, and well, Japanese. I dunno... I'm just rambling. With everything I take in, whether it be music, film, games, etc., all I ask is that they evoke some kind of emotion out of me (be it laughter, tears, terror, etc.) and Miyazaki films have always left me totally void and uninterested. Like Rugal said though... matter of taste.
Now that I have that off my chest, I have to say that I don't like the intrusion of anime in to mainstream American culture. And no, it's not the usual "I hate it when things get popular" elitist bullshit that is so prevalent among the anime community (or really any small community that suddenly finds itself with a flood of new members). I actually don't like it because it's impeding on traditional American animation. While I find the last 15 years worth of American cinematic animation to be utter crap (mostly just a vehicle for selling toys and happy meals... slickly marketed American consumerism... ick), I've always been a huge fan of Looney Tunes, Tom + Jerry, etc. With the gradual success of anime, less and less traditional animation is being done in the US and what is coming out has a STRIKING resemblance to anime. I just hope with the rush to copy what makes money, we don't lose some of the things that made American animation great. Woh... I'm REALLY rambling. It's getting late. Time to sleep.
Suffice it to say that this buffoon needs to remember that not everything that comes out of Japan is pure gold and that not all American animation is crap (though Disney can rot for all I care).
"I haven't slept for 10 days because that would be too long."
"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see through you."
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| Hungrywolf 1959th Post
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(1):LIES!" , posted Mon 12 May 07:53
quote:
Link Here
Sprited Away is great, don't get me wrong... but anime is hardly the greatest thing ever made.
I'm too tired to argue, as I could say things like "techincally anime is animated no better then Ed, Edd, and Eddy... it only differs stylicisty" or "there is much anime not imported to America that is HORRIBLE, poor in both story and art quality"
But I choose not to dwell on such, as not only will it fall on deaf ears and the point of the article was Spirited Away could help us believe again... and sadly even that is not true.
Spirited Away did far worse at the box office then Disney's own Treasure Planet. (i believe Treasure Planet opened at 5 while SA opened at 20 in wide release) Spirited Away will not inspire or change the American animation industry, as in this world of money and greed things that are emulated are not those that inspire, but those that bring wealth.
And if I my go farther off on a tangent, movie animation as a whole is passed it's prime... I'm sure everyone can agree Spirited Away is far from Miyazaki's best work (I prefer Kiki myself, though many seem to prefer Mononoke) and as far as praising from the academy goes, Beauty and the Beast trumps SA (for it was up for "Best Picture", it was deemed worthy to go toe to with the big boys... if Spirited Away was as impressive as it's hyped to be it would have been up for Best Picture, Best Animated Picture, AND Best Foreign Picture)
I totally agree with you, of course. I like Spirited Away, I even bought the DVD, but this guys little article makes me want to scream. Spirited Away was good, but it wasn't the best film, animated or not, I've ever seen, far from it. But it was great.
"Someday we'll find it the rainbow connection..." -Kermit The Muppet Movie
Hungry Like the Wolf
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| Mosquiton 745th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "such controversy!" , posted Mon 12 May 08:32
quote:
No, it's still ridiculous. I totally agree with everything you said here, but what the hell does that have to do with racism? I never said I didn't want anime to penetrate mainstream America..."
I definitely don't think you're being racist here, but you did say...
"...I don't like the intrusion of anime in to mainstream American culture."
Which really implies that you'd rather it not happen. It is quite strongly worded though, and trongly worded opinions are bound to get taken out of context.
Personally though, I don't think you need to worry... although Iron Giant was quite good it didn't do too well, I don't think it was because of competition from Robotech reruns. The animated Spawn series (in my opinion) was quite good, but what limited audience as it only really showed late at night at HBO with almost no advertisement... I doubt Toonami and Goku had much to do with it.
Anyway, if some really great domestic animation comes out (would be nice wouldn't it?) and it's ignored in favor of sub-par anime then ascribe it to the masses being morons bloated on pop culture. We're all experiencing globalization here. Since colonialization tapered off, nobody is really cramming anyone's culture down anyone elses throat. Besides, I think it was mentioned that Treasure Planet beat out Spirited Away in NA theatres anyway... and it's not like Pixar is flaunting any kind of anime-stylings.
If someone in China wants to gobble down an overpriced artery-clogging Big Mac, use English words and phrases for the cool factor, or spend exorbitant amounts of cash on Western fashion, that's definitely their choice... same as it's John Doe Jr.'s choice to watch DBZ, eat sushi, and learn Japanese.
There's a lot more I could say, but I have to leave for E3 tomorrow... later guys!
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| OYashiroForever
206th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(1):such controversy!" , posted Mon 12 May 11:25
quote:
I definitely don't think you're being racist here, but you did say...
"...I don't like the intrusion of anime in to mainstream American culture."
Which really implies that you'd rather it not happen. It is quite strongly worded though, and trongly worded opinions are bound to get taken out of context.
So I've noticed. Actually, while I said I don't like it, I'd much rather it DID happen. One, because it allows more non-commercial anime that we might've never seen in the old days (Karekano, Azumanga Daioh) to get a US release. And two, because frankly I'd rather see poorly dubbed anime on TV than most of the garbage that passes for programming these days. I can certainly see how that implication could be drawn, though.
quote:
Personally though, I don't think you need to worry... although Iron Giant was quite good it didn't do too well, I don't think it was because of competition from Robotech reruns. The animated Spawn series (in my opinion) was quite good, but what limited audience as it only really showed late at night at HBO with almost no advertisement... I doubt Toonami and Goku had much to do with it.
Anyway, if some really great domestic animation comes out (would be nice wouldn't it?) and it's ignored in favor of sub-par anime then ascribe it to the masses being morons bloated on pop culture. We're all experiencing globalization here. Since colonialization tapered off, nobody is really cramming anyone's culture down anyone elses throat. Besides, I think it was mentioned that Treasure Planet beat out Spirited Away in NA theatres anyway... and it's not like Pixar is flaunting any kind of anime-stylings.
Very true. However, I'm speaking more of the traditional stuff like Looney Tunes and Hanna Barbera. Now that it's not 3am and I'm fairly coherent, it's obvious this kind of animation has been gone for quite some time and anime had nothing to do with it. Most of the current American animation comes from the Little Mermaid model (rip off a children's story, make it a musical with talking animal sidekicks and shallow kindergarten morality). I suppose I was just venting my frustration with the current crop of American animation and pining for the good ol' days.
quote:
If someone in China wants to gobble down an overpriced artery-clogging Big Mac, use English words and phrases for the cool factor, or spend exorbitant amounts of cash on Western fashion, that's definitely their choice... same as it's John Doe Jr.'s choice to watch DBZ, eat sushi, and learn Japanese.
Indeed... and I certainly don't disagree with that. Although one of the things that worries me is that in the rush for westernization, many of the cultures don't lose their individuality (this is becoming a serious problem in Japan).
quote:
There's a lot more I could say, but I have to leave for E3 tomorrow... later guys!
Enjoy! Bring us back lots of great pics and stories!
"I haven't slept for 10 days because that would be too long."
"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see through you."
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| Gojira 939th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "EVERRRR" , posted Mon 12 May 14:21
What bugs me about this article is not his praise of Miyazaki but rather his muddled definition of anime. He seems to think that the story is pure anime, which couldn't be further from the truth. A popular anime story contains one or more of the following: mechs, space battles, cute little girls who have their innocence exploited, furry little sidekicks, strange-colored hair and goofy absurdist expressions. A good story transcends all that, even if it ends up having a few of those elements. And Spirited Away just happens to be a good story.
As for being pro-cartoon or pro-anime, I would have to say that that's plain stubborn. Anime and manga do not have a particularly long history. Although manga technically started well over 1000 years ago, it didn't evolve into the easily-defined style you see now until the 1950s. And why? Because much of it came about through American influences following WWII. Think about that before you start picking favorites among countries.
quote:
I'd like to start off by saying I don't like Miyazaki films. Never have. I don't hate them (there are very few things in this life that I truly hate)... they just don't evoke any kind of emotion out of me. Which is so thoroughly odd. Normally, I'm very much in to pretentious arty-type films, not to mention anime and the Japanese culture/way of thinking. But Miyazaki films (I haven't seen Spirited Away, but I've seen Kiki, Mononoke Hime, and Laputa) have always left me feeling totally empty and ultimately unsatisfied.
IMHO, you just named three of the weakest Miyazaki films by far. I didn't like any of those, but I still think Miyazaki is far and away the greatest mind in animation direction right now. His style is clean, poignant and unobtrusive, despite the possibility of unfamiliarity with the subject matter. Just because I didn't like a few of his films doesn't change that.
GSPX Progress: |>>>>>>43%-------|
Coming [not very] soon (title tentative): Golden Rule
Yes I am still working on it. Slowly.
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| OYashiroForever
207th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(1):EVERRRR" , posted Mon 12 May 19:28
quote:
What bugs me about this article is not his praise of Miyazaki but rather his muddled definition of anime. He seems to think that the story is pure anime, which couldn't be further from the truth. A popular anime story contains one or more of the following: mechs, space battles, cute little girls who have their innocence exploited, furry little sidekicks, strange-colored hair and goofy absurdist expressions. A good story transcends all that, even if it ends up having a few of those elements. And Spirited Away just happens to be a good story.
Having actually read the "article" in question, it's obvious this is just some guy who hasn't watched enough anime to remove the rose-colored glasses. He'll join the rest of us soon enough. One session of M.D. Geist or Samurai Shodown <shudder> or something else equally awful will set him straight.
quote:
IMHO, you just named three of the weakest Miyazaki films by far. I didn't like any of those, but I still think Miyazaki is far and away the greatest mind in animation direction right now. His style is clean, poignant and unobtrusive, despite the possibility of unfamiliarity with the subject matter. Just because I didn't like a few of his films doesn't change that.
While I will concede that it's possible I could've watched the three worst Miyazaki films, one can normally find an underlying quality even among the worst of a director/actor's films. Kubrick is a good example of this. Even in all of his lesser pieces (Eyes Wide Shut!!), there was always a distinct style and a daring use of the camera that, even though the movie might be subpar, would identify it as a Kubrick piece and would bring a small sense of satisfaction. Of the three Miyazaki films I've seen, I've found very little that I like: on the surface or at a deeper level. I just feel nothing: they evoke no emotion, they never challenge my beliefs, I don't learn anything, I'm not impressed by beauty of the eye or the ear. Worst of all, they simply didn't entertain me.
Naturally, this is all subjective opinion and I could just be missing something major.
"I haven't slept for 10 days because that would be too long."
"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see through you."
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| Kurai Kaze
81th Post
Occasional Customer
|  "Re(1):LIES!"
, posted Tue 13 May 18:27
quote:
Link Here
Sprited Away is great, don't get me wrong... but anime is hardly the greatest thing ever made.
I'm too tired to argue, as I could say things like "techincally anime is animated no better then Ed, Edd, and Eddy... it only differs stylicisty" or "there is much anime not imported to America that is HORRIBLE, poor in both story and art quality"
But I choose not to dwell on such, as not only will it fall on deaf ears and the point of the article was Spirited Away could help us believe again... and sadly even that is not true.
Spirited Away did far worse at the box office then Disney's own Treasure Planet. (i believe Treasure Planet opened at 5 while SA opened at 20 in wide release) Spirited Away will not inspire or change the American animation industry, as in this world of money and greed things that are emulated are not those that inspire, but those that bring wealth.
And if I my go farther off on a tangent, movie animation as a whole is passed it's prime... I'm sure everyone can agree Spirited Away is far from Miyazaki's best work (I prefer Kiki myself, though many seem to prefer Mononoke) and as far as praising from the academy goes, Beauty and the Beast trumps SA (for it was up for "Best Picture", it was deemed worthy to go toe to with the big boys... if Spirited Away was as impressive as it's hyped to be it would have been up for Best Picture, Best Animated Picture, AND Best Foreign Picture)
I'm a Nausicaa man myself. And not Warriors of the wind... *sigh*
My personal problem is that this guy like so many seems to think that to be Christian is to be close minded. I am a very devout christian, but I study other religions, I wrote Fantasy, I enjoy talk of Magic (Oh no, the M word) and I am against the iraqi war. Evidently all Judeo Christian Ethic means being republican. The article would have been delicious if he hadn't decided to bring religion into the entertainment debate. The two are seperate.
"Here comes the Big Boss. Lets get it on!"
AIM: Chiquita Taco (Don't raz me about the name. I picked it before I learned about gender inflections in foreign languages.)
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"Re(1):LIES!" 
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MESSATSU 
