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| Alucard
104th Post
 
Regular Customer
   
|  "Re(4):Official : a new Castlevania on PS2"
, posted Fri 17 Jan 15:49
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But keep in mind : a serie that doesn't recycle or evolve will die. Why not a 3D one, if it's fairly realized (think of Devil May Cry ?) ?
Because a lot of people want certain series to maintain their integrity and unique feel ( look at the 3D contras for PS, they were awful, as were the 3D Akumajo games for N64 ). I wouldn't mind if it was a 2D " play " game with 3D models, like Shin Contra, but I'd be happy as long as it isn't another piece of garbage like the N64 games.
I'm quite interested to see what they can do with a PS2... N64 were first tries with 3D, and the support wasn't the best for it (did I say that I HATE N64 ?). But many say that they were not as crappy as you would judge them (at least the playing).
And Contra for PSX was developed by Konami America... Bad exemple.
I trust in Konami Japan and Koji Igarashi, they were never wrong. Even the old castlevania on GB were funny to play.
My only regret is that they never finished Resurrection on DC (why god, why ???? The best support must have had his own castlevania !!!), or developed another one for it.
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| Mog
25th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(6):Official : a new Castlevania on PS2" , posted Fri 17 Jan 16:13
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I'de really like to see this be the end all be all pure 2D Castlevania.
I don't really know if the PS2 is the right system for a bunch of huge, high resolution sprites with tons of frames of animation on the screen at the same time.
I'm usually quick to point out the PS2's weakness in 2D, and I'm sure it could look better on another system (GameCube!!!). However, you have to remember what Konami managed to do with Symphony of the Night on the 2D-retarded PSX. Getting a 2D game to look that good on the PSX took work, and I'm sure they can do the same thing again. Besides, after playing Guilty Gear XX on the PS2, my worries about the system doing 2D have lessened.
As for the 2D, or 3D debate, I would be more than happy to see Castlevania done in 3D well. Playing Devil May Cry convienced me that this is possible, it would just take some work getting everything right. Don't get me wrong, a new, high-res 2D Castlevaina would be great too, it's just that I would like to see them do something new with the series that doesn't suck.
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| Time Mage 1158th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
 
    
    
| "Re(5):Official : a new Castlevania on PS2" , posted Fri 17 Jan 16:55
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I'm quite interested to see what they can do with a PS2... N64 were first tries with 3D, and the support wasn't the best for it (did I say that I HATE N64 ?). But many say that they were not as crappy as you would judge them (at least the playing).
I have the first N64 Castlevania, and, even when it's not the best of the series, it's a good game. Good story, difficult, varied, and amazing bosses (the final boss looks like a Final Fantasy Summon!!). The 3D elements add some RE-like surpises (I mean, creepy moments, cool intros...).
However, it has some bad points: The music, except for the intro one and 2 more, is only average, the cameras are from mediocre to BAAAAD in some moments, and being in 3D, it's not as "precious" as the 2D ones.
I can imagine a 3D Castlevania in PS2. The 3D engine can be detailed enough on PS2 to show many details, the music is only a matter of the inspiration of the composer, and the gameplay (specifically, the cameras), are a matter of good programming and testing.
A 3D CASTLEVANIA CAN WORK.
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| RugalBernstein 3297th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
  
| "Re(7):Official : a new Castlevania on PS2" , posted Fri 17 Jan 17:11:
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Castlevania must take a new turn
Why " must " it? It isn't even really Castlevania anymore, anyway, it's Metroid. Castlevania is dead, it died a while ago. I don't want to see Konami beat a dead horse even more than it needs to be with a shameless 3D " Devil May Cry " rip-off. Castlevania is supposed to have a high difficulty level and have awful jumping ( ha ha ha ). It isn't supposed to be a " hard-core action 3D " game with a " thumpin' techno sound track ", with some random new Belmont running on walls shooting hordes of skeletons with machine guns and giant magma spiders.
Oh, yes, depending on how far some people feel they want it to go... if you aren't comfortable with a Belmont "shooting" skeletons with "machine guns" , just replace the words "shooting" with "whipping" and "machine guns" with " assorted sharp implements " .
Edit: Now, I wouldn't mind seeing a 3D Akumajo in a sense. In fact, I think if they do the same thing with it that they did to Shin Contra, it might be an improvement over the recent games. C'mon, though, people, doesn't ANYBODY out there actually care about a game's " unique feel " anymore?
[this message was edited by RugalBernstein on Fri 17 Jan 17:21] |
| Alucard
106th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(8):Official : a new Castlevania on PS2" , posted Fri 17 Jan 17:21
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Castlevania must take a new turn
Why " must " it?
I said it upper : 'cause the serie will die if it doesn't evolve.
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It isn't even really Castlevania anymore, anyway, it's Metroid. Castlevania is dead, it died a while ago.
I understand what you try to say. But since there were no metroid since a long time, I would say that castlevania had taken the best of Metroid to get better.
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I don't want to see Konami beat a dead horse even more than it needs to be with a shameless 3D " Devil May Cry " rip-off.
In Konami Japan we trust.
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Castlevania is supposed to have a high difficulty level and have awful jumping ( ha ha ha ).
Totally agree. This is also my only complain about SOTN. But it's not a problem with Castlevania only... That runs for all games today (the hardest games were on NES).
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It isn't supposed to be a " hard-core action 3D " game with a " thumpin' techno sound track ", with some random new Belmont running on walls shooting hordes of skeletons with machine guns and giant magma spiders.
Agree. But try to imagine Devil May Cry, with a whip, some castlevania gothic tunes, and some good-old castlevania bosses... Devil May Cry is also a difficult game, it would be good for a Castlevania ^_^
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| Mog
27th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(8):Official : a new Castlevania on PS2" , posted Fri 17 Jan 17:22
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I guess I'm unusual in that I actually want a series to remain true to its roots and not go through random pointless changes to be " cool " .
That's not unusual, I know plenty of people who would support that argument. However, I'm not really sure just what they can do to take Castlevaina beyond SotN and Dracula X within the 2D medium. I'm having similar issuse with Final Fantasy (I'm excluding FFXI, FFXII, and FFX-2 until I play them.) in that I feel that the series really hasn't progressed that much since the NES days. While some of the games since then have been quiet good, I'm not sure how well they're going to hold up against something newer, like Star Ocean 3.
I'm not saying that another 2D Castlevanina would suck, but that I think a change in and of it's self might not be such a bad idea. Translating the game into 3D is risky, granted, but I feel the results could be very rewarding if done well. Just my thoughts.
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| Time Mage 1159th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "Re(8):Official : a new Castlevania on PS2" , posted Fri 17 Jan 17:23
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Castlevania must take a new turn
Why " must " it?
Just because things has to evolve. I like the old Caslevanias a lot, I LOVE SOTN, and, as I said, liked very much the N64 Caslevania, which, believe me or not, was more Castlevania than SOTN.
Look at KOF. We all like it. It's a great series, and every year the bring us new characters, new moves, new gameplay elements... But it feels old, and repeated. If KOF needs change and (I think) we all agree in this... What's the difference with Castlevania??
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| rid_hershel 4437th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Re(10):Official : a new Castlevania on" , posted Fri 17 Jan 18:04
Oh, I played Castlevanias long before SotN, I know that it changed (I'm one of the few who like Bloodlines too). I'm against 3D to tell you the truth. I don't think that they can make a castle designed so beautifully as the previous ones in 3D, with all these little details. Not for now.
Just look at Sonic, how the Sonic Adventure games lack the surreal style of the 2d ones.
And the gameplay, well, I grew playing (and still play at least once every week) 2D platformers, it's normal to prefer that, I didn't liked any 3D platformer as much as my favorite 2D ones. I don't like Mario 64 and it's clones, yeah.
All this was only my personal opinion of course. Economically it's wiser for Konami to go 3D. And making a cel-shaded Alucard collect pocket monsters on his way for help.
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| RugalBernstein 3300th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):Re(10):Official : a new Castlevania on" , posted Fri 17 Jan 18:09
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As far as I know (because I didn't have the chance to play it), Samurai Spirits 64 I & II were not bad at all...
Yes, they are. However, they are nothing more than Samurai Spirits in 3D. No real play differences; the line-switching is barely even a factor in most matches.
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The fact that a game is in 3D does not mean it has completely changed ; it's just a matter of visual effects. For example, Tekken is surely in 3D, but the controls are 2D (don't look at me like this - I'm sure you understand my meanings). Tekken 4 is the real one with 3D controls (as far as I know - I don't have a PS2). Soul Calibur is fully 3D. Street Fighter EX + Alpha is a 2D game with 3D graphics (and it was not bad at all - quite refreshing)....
If I get this right, you're essentially saying you'd like to see what I said I'd like to see, one that uses 3D models but plays just like the classics.
And just as a general question, what's so innovative in making a game 3D, anyway?
Best site EVER: Link Here
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| Alucard
109th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(5):Re(10):Official : a new Castlevania on" , posted Fri 17 Jan 18:18
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If I get this right, you're essentially saying you'd like to see what I said I'd like to see, one that uses 3D models but plays just like the classics.
Not exactly : the question is not what I want, because I'm taking all that enjoy me, 2D and 3D, the only request is that they must be good.
I just wanted to show that the world of games is not divided into 2 sides, 2D and 3D. There is more connections than two parts.
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And just as a general question, what's so innovative in making a game 3D, anyway?
It's a new experience, another form of art. Like the cel-shading was 2 years ago something new, for example (I love the graphics of JSR). We all know what Konami can do with 2D sprites (and don't misunderstand, I want more ^_^). But what can they do with 3D ? Remember Resurrection, thoses pics were really enjoyable.
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| Mog
30th Post
Rare Customer
| "3D = innovation?" , posted Fri 17 Jan 18:35
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And just as a general question, what's so innovative in making a game 3D, anyway?
It's not making the game 3D that's invovative, but rather taking advantage of what can be done in a 3D environment. For me at least, I find that the best 3D games have more atmosphere, versitility, and offer more freedom than their 2D counterparts. Imagine trying trying to remake Theif or Deus Ex in 2D? How about the difference in 'freedom' between GTA1/2, and GTA3. I'm not syaing that 3D is better than 2D, just that it has its own advantage. Again, this is all just my opinion. Maybe we should make this it's own topic...
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| Dr Orochi 446th Post
Gold Customer
|  "If it ain't broke indeed."
, posted Fri 17 Jan 23:42
Don't worry Rugal. You know I'm behind you as well. I view things as you do on the Castlevania/Akumajo series. You've said everything that I would have.
I find it hard lately to convey my emotions on difficult mattes such as these. It seems that there are always those on one side or the other, despite their understandings.
And so, I could see it being an interesting idea to have seperate lines of Castlevania series. This could be done in a variety of ways.
A mere example. Akumajo Dracula could be a series of it's own continuing in the vein of the older Castlvania games (pre-SOTN). Another series could be the Metroid style of games used lately, and finally a series of 3D games could be produced.
There have been more bloodlines that have crossed the dark prince's path than the Belmont's. Also there could be more prequels, inbetweens, and things set further into the future. It's all relatively limitless. Only if the money and the application of the imagination are used.
But as I said in a post before, Castlevania is not quite as popular in its homeland as it is in other regions. This could be for a variety of reasons. Also, due to this, the series has held onto the Castlevania style that has made them the most money and earn the most praise (SOTN).
But, as time progresses, we see more and more games that, at one point and time, would have never been given a glance to be released in the US, Europe, and elsewhere. With the Castlevania series gaining more and more popularity it's possible that ideas similar to what I have stated could occur considering that the ability to tap into other markets has become much easier.
Perhaps one day we will all get what we want. For now we can only wish and accept what we get (even if it seems hardly acceptable or rightfor that matter).
I could say more, but my mind hurts and I doubt anything here will be given any thought or consideration. Cheers.
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| Grave
71th Post
Occasional Customer
|  "Re(2):Re(10):Official : a new Castlevania on "
, posted Sat 18 Jan 09:39
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Changing something that isn't "bad" is both pointless and stupid. " If it ain't broke, don't fix it " .
I'm giving up anyway, though, I'm clearly in the minority here. I'll just stick to the classics. Oh, and for the record, Konami could do a LOT more than Rondo of Blood (edit for those who don't know: Dracula X ) on a new system. It's an amazing game, but I sometimes think that people overstate it or think it's better than it really is, considering people pay pointlessly large sums of money for it on Ebay. I'll do some captures of it soon, in case people actually want to see what it looks like.
I think Dracula X could easily appear on PS1 like the X68000 CV did, but if all this hype was about a "new game" that happened to be Drac X, I'd be more than a little pissed. Do you remember the project that put Drac X online in pieces you could use to make a disc image a few years back? It's a great game, but not one I think I'd shell out $150 for. I'd much rather see a CV3 remake, but..
A CV in the style of Shattered Soldier would, in my opinion, rob the series of a lot of its charm and appeal. Even Shattered Soldier didn't feel right to me. It played like Contra, but visually, it was a big letdown. Some things just don't belong in 3D, I don't think. People need to realize that 2D doesn't have to be dead, and 3D will not fix everything on its own.
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| ONSLAUGHT 2349th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Mmmmmhh..." , posted Sat 18 Jan 09:44
I STRONGLY agree with Rugal, Rid and the ever popular Dr. Santorochi.
Why change the core of what was one of the best series in the past?
I enjoyed greatly the SotN game, in fact it's one of my favorite games ever; but I was very disappointed to know that it turned into Metroidvania...
I really miss the old days of the NES Castlevanias, where simplicity and GREAT gameplay were the key for fun (Who doesn't miss the bats crashing at you when you were in middle jump? ha ha).
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm a great supporter of 3D (I just LOVE DMC to death), but as Rugal said, some series are meant to be in 2D and not 3D and viceversa.
Want more Metroidvania (Completely with strange characters -i.e. No Blemonts- and RPG like elements)? go create your own spinoffs on the GBA. Want 3D Castlevanias? Go develop shitty games for the N64.
Want TRUE castlevanias? create new ones with a Belmont in it sticking to the ORIGINAL and TRUE formula that made the Castlevanias the hits they used to be (For old schoolers anyway).
What really saddens my heart, is that most of the self proclaimed Castlevania "Fans" have only played SotN and the GBA ones... It's really sad that the classics don't get the respect and credit they deserve...
And I want to see a new Castlevania with complete 2D, nothing of this "looks 3D but plays 2D" crap for this game.
He dicho.
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| OmegaDog 386th Post
Silver Customer
| "Couple more notes..." , posted Sat 18 Jan 10:03
Some games do work when going in a transition from sprites to polygons because they can already take into account a Z-axis. 3D gameplay came long before any polygons for graphics ever did (Solstice, Equinox, even the original Baseball for the NES). Zelda was already in three dimensions with A Link to the Past: besides having up/down and left/right, it mattered whether or not you were on the same height or level as an object you were trying to reach/hit. For other games -- well, gameplay may have to be changed around a bit. [Even the enjoyable Mario 64 has gameplay elements that somewhat differ from its 2D elements, i.e. no timer, no growth mushroom, and a life-bar that was only previously present in the North American Super Mario Bros. 2 -- because it'd be a bitch to explore your surroundings, then get hit once or twice and get knocked out (or get a Time Over), sending you back to the start.]
I suppose I'm one of the few people who liked the 3D Castlevania. (Don't know if the plural form applies -- Legacy of Darkness, the one I own, was more an upgrade to the first than a prequel/mid-quel.) Of course, the major downside to it was that it wasn't really a Castlevania game (including auto-targeting which removed the need for jumping to attack; relying more on exploration, switch-pulling, and item collection more than fighting enemies, as opposed to having a balance of it, say with SOTN; not including a memorable soundtrack...) . The game really did feel more like Tomb Raider than Castlevania. But, the graphical and musical atmosphere was nice, storyline was okay, and the gameplay was decent too. All, of course, in my opinion.
So... IT'S "FLITZ TIME" EVERYBODY! | RANK: SILVER | NEXT STAGE IS 8 |
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| VariantX
154th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(1):Couple more notes..." , posted Sat 18 Jan 11:35
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Some games do work when going in a transition from sprites to polygons because they can already take into account a Z-axis. 3D gameplay came long before any polygons for graphics ever did (Solstice, Equinox, even the original Baseball for the NES). Zelda was already in three dimensions with A Link to the Past: besides having up/down and left/right, it mattered whether or not you were on the same height or level as an object you were trying to reach/hit. For other games -- well, gameplay may have to be changed around a bit. [Even the enjoyable Mario 64 has gameplay elements that somewhat differ from its 2D elements, i.e. no timer, no growth mushroom, and a life-bar that was only previously present in the North American Super Mario Bros. 2 -- because it'd be a bitch to explore your surroundings, then get hit once or twice and get knocked out (or get a Time Over), sending you back to the start.]
I suppose I'm one of the few people who liked the 3D Castlevania. (Don't know if the plural form applies -- Legacy of Darkness, the one I own, was more an upgrade to the first than a prequel/mid-quel.) Of course, the major downside to it was that it wasn't really a Castlevania game (including auto-targeting which removed the need for jumping to attack; relying more on exploration, switch-pulling, and item collection more than fighting enemies, as opposed to having a balance of it, say with SOTN; not including a memorable soundtrack...) . The game really did feel more like Tomb Raider than Castlevania. But, the graphical and musical atmosphere was nice, storyline was okay, and the gameplay was decent too. All, of course, in my opinion.
To me, a 3d castlevania just wont feel like castlevania. I dont want a 3d castlevania just because some other games had better luck with it. Despite SOTN being several years old I never got tired of the graphics at any point. The metroid style gameplay may be a big change from running from one end of a level to another but it still has the feel of a castlevania since it still plays like castlevania irreguardless of how the level structure is set up. I feel these later castlevanias are a much better attempt at what CV2 tried to do since this is what they wanted to do with castlevania from the beginning.
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only the strong one survives.
