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| Luisinan
114th Post
 
Regular Customer
   
|  "Help me pick an RPG"
, posted Mon 25 Nov 15:36
Hey Folks,
Its that time of the year. Winter break, and I will have a lot of free time. And I'm bored. So I need a good RPG. Here are "My" specs...
1. Systems I own. PC, PSX & DC. I might be willing to buy a GBA though.
2. RPGS I like, FFT.
3. RPGS I dislike, Grandia.
4. RPGS I like but thought were to hard or boring, Balder's Gate.
5. What I'm looking for: A tough, long, engrossing RPG. Good story, but without the mindless level building. I don't like PSX FF games cause I think they are too straight forward and easy.
I'm curious about Diablo II, but what type of game is this exactly? Not interested in Warcraft III. Curious about Balder's Gate II.
Maybe I'll buy a used N64 and play zelda all over again. I'm just very picky and get bored with games real fast, unless they are fighting games!
Thank you all.
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Replies:
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| Radish 570th Post
New Red Carpet Member
 
    
| "Re(1):Help me pick an RPG" , posted Mon 25 Nov 16:00
quote:
Hey Folks,
Its that time of the year. Winter break, and I will have a lot of free time. And I'm bored. So I need a good RPG. Here are "My" specs...
1. Systems I own. PC, PSX & DC. I might be willing to buy a GBA though.
2. RPGS I like, FFT.
3. RPGS I dislike, Grandia.
4. RPGS I like but thought were to hard or boring, Balder's Gate.
5. What I'm looking for: A tough, long, engrossing RPG. Good story, but without the mindless level building. I don't like PSX FF games cause I think they are too straight forward and easy.
I'm curious about Diablo II, but what type of game is this exactly? Not interested in Warcraft III. Curious about Balder's Gate II.
Maybe I'll buy a used N64 and play zelda all over again. I'm just very picky and get bored with games real fast, unless they are fighting games!
Thank you all.
Diablo = click click click click click click click click click click click click click click click ....
It gets old quick. I beat the first one, but it was more because I was bored out of my mind and had nothing better to do.
If you liked FFT, don't give in to the siren's song that is Hoshigami. That game is seriously awful. I don't know how a game that rips of FFT so much could be that bad.
If you can find a copy of Tactics Ogre, that game has a pretty engrossing political plot (no evil demon or stupid Pope trying to take over the word) and there's a good level of micromanagement. Problem is Atlus didn't make many discs and it can be a bitch to find.
Tactics Ogre for the GBA is like a watered down version of Tactics Ogre, and it's really supposed to be played afterwards to get the full effect of the ending.
Persona EP is good, although there is an element of having to go through random battles to recruit new monsters and near the end there is a level where you have to level up a bunch.
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| Gojira 722th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(1):Help me pick an RPG" , posted Mon 25 Nov 16:43
Okay, so you don't like mindless level building, and you don't like Grandia or FF-style... hmm, that'll be tough. I'd say you want a PC RPG but I can't help because I don't play those. If you want a console game, try these:
Alundra - Good old-school Zelda-type game. Just make sure you get the FIRST one (the one that Working Designs released), and not the pile of crap that is Alundra II.
Front Mission 3 - If you don't mind the sci-fi setting and sluggish graphics, it's got an interesting story with two completely different paths to take, and the battles are challenging but not complicated.
Suikoden II - Okay, there is SOME leveling up, but there is a lot to do and see and a very interesting story. And to be honest the leveling up doesn't really take that long. In fact you'll hardly ever see a loading screen in any situation.
Based on what you say I think you'd like those, but it's up to you.
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| Nate
19th Post
New Customer
| "Re(1):Help me pick an RPG" , posted Mon 25 Nov 18:09:
quote:
Hey Folks,
Its that time of the year. Winter break, and I will have a lot of free time. And I'm bored. So I need a good RPG. Here are "My" specs...
1. Systems I own. PC, PSX & DC. I might be willing to buy a GBA though.
2. RPGS I like, FFT.
3. RPGS I dislike, Grandia.
4. RPGS I like but thought were to hard or boring, Balder's Gate.
5. What I'm looking for: A tough, long, engrossing RPG. Good story, but without the mindless level building. I don't like PSX FF games cause I think they are too straight forward and easy.
I'm curious about Diablo II, but what type of game is this exactly? Not interested in Warcraft III. Curious about Balder's Gate II.
Maybe I'll buy a used N64 and play zelda all over again. I'm just very picky and get bored with games real fast, unless they are fighting games!
Thank you all.
Umm...what the hell happened to the post I made??!
You'd best visit. If it weren't down that is.
http://snakeshole.go-dream.com
[this message was edited by Nate on Mon 25 Nov 18:45] |
| Luisinan
116th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(2):Help me pick an RPG" , posted Mon 25 Nov 19:13
Thank you all for you suggestions. I want to clarify a few things first though.
I love good adventure RPGs like Legend of Zelda (NES, SNES, N64)
I don't hate leveling up that much, but if I have to spend too much time on it, I don't like it.
I love a tough RPG. Dragon Warrior for the NES, the original NES Final Fantasy and the Gameboy Final Fantasy games were great. I tried to play FF3 on SNES, but there was too much talking! I love a good story but i want to get in the middle of action!
Grandia 1 and Grandia 2 had a cool battle system. But that was it. I hated the level building and the magic building. Hated that a lot! You had to find eggs to gain new magic abilities, how dumb is that! And there weren't many options on the types of weapons you could use, either you got the best weapon, or you didn't!
The weapon/armor system in the Gameboy FF's was great because there advantages and disadvantages to each item. Grandia also had a poor storyline IMO. Sorry if you like that franchise.
And I don't hate FF7-11, its just those games seem so simple. I want to be a little frustrated. Like in the old NES RPGs!
And I like Phantasy Star Online, but that games is basically treasure hunting, and that gets boring fast. I guess Diablo II is like that too.
The old RPGs had cool treasures. Grandia didn't.
What do you guys think about Lunar for the PSX? I guess I want a mix of an American and Japanese RPG.
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| Sensenic
19th Post
New Customer
| "Re(3):Help me pick an RPG" , posted Tue 26 Nov 04:24
quote:
Thank you all for you suggestions. I want to clarify a few things first though.
I love good adventure RPGs like Legend of Zelda (NES, SNES, N64)
I don't hate leveling up that much, but if I have to spend too much time on it, I don't like it.
I love a tough RPG. Dragon Warrior for the NES, the original NES Final Fantasy and the Gameboy Final Fantasy games were great. I tried to play FF3 on SNES, but there was too much talking! I love a good story but i want to get in the middle of action!
Grandia 1 and Grandia 2 had a cool battle system. But that was it. I hated the level building and the magic building. Hated that a lot! You had to find eggs to gain new magic abilities, how dumb is that! And there weren't many options on the types of weapons you could use, either you got the best weapon, or you didn't!
The weapon/armor system in the Gameboy FF's was great because there advantages and disadvantages to each item. Grandia also had a poor storyline IMO. Sorry if you like that franchise.
And I don't hate FF7-11, its just those games seem so simple. I want to be a little frustrated. Like in the old NES RPGs!
And I like Phantasy Star Online, but that games is basically treasure hunting, and that gets boring fast. I guess Diablo II is like that too.
The old RPGs had cool treasures. Grandia didn't.
What do you guys think about Lunar for the PSX? I guess I want a mix of an American and Japanese RPG.
If you want a long (loooong) and tough adventure RPG Zelda-like... have you played Alundra for PSX?
It's an emotional thing don't try to understand...
-Adrian Ripburger-
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| Sesq
1th Post
New Customer
| "Re(1):Help me pick an RPG" , posted Tue 26 Nov 15:38
If you have a PC, might I suggest Fallout/Fallout 2? Not too hard, battles are kind of like a job-less FF Tactics with more guns if you squint, they're easily found in a two-pack for $10 or less, runs well on older PCs, and it's got an engrossing, if episodic, storyline. And it's got Richard Dean Anderson, aka McGuyver!
Also, what most others said.
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| Gojira 725th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(1):Really?" , posted Wed 27 Nov 13:16
quote:
Would you be so kind as to tell me more about these mistakes and corrections you mention?
It's been years since I played the game, but here are some of them:
1) You cannot hold many items. The maximum is something like 20-24. Which would be okay, except...
2) There are no multiple-use items. So they took the cheap way out and made items that affect the entire party. Apparently they didn't think it was wasteful to have to use a party-healing item when only one member is critical.
3) Because you use items up so quickly, the player must find a way to hoard them. So they spend a lot of time using the defend option to regenerate some small amount of HP. Combine that with the fact that you have to use a lengthy attack sequence and it makes many battles longer than they have any right to be.
4) You can't use items as a dragoon. Ironic, considering it's supposed to be the most powerful form. I guess dragoons are too good for items. Even worse...
5) Once you've changed into a dragoon, there is no option to change back. You have to spend several turns being unable to use items or your regular combo. This is the only form that can use magic, and yet you can't even replenish MP by yourself?
And so forth. There are also issues with slow menus, hard-to-see action spots, horrible CD usage, and buggy counterattacks. All combined make LoD nothing but a huge amateur project.
Incidentally, I've heard that the majority of the game's ridiculously large budget went towards graphic artists and very little to designers and programmers, which would explain a lot about its bugs and design issues. Graphics over gameplay... and ironically the graphics weren't even that great.
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| Makondo99
79th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):Really?" , posted Wed 27 Nov 17:06
quote:
It's been years since I played the game, but here are some of them:
1) You cannot hold many items. The maximum is something like 20-24. Which would be okay, except...
2) There are no multiple-use items. So they took the cheap way out and made items that affect the entire party. Apparently they didn't think it was wasteful to have to use a party-healing item when only one member is critical.
Very true. In most RPGs I've played the limit of items you may carry is 99 of each kind. Still, this may lead you to rely too much on items, which may "soften" your gameplay. When I played LotD for the first time I complained a lot about this same issue 'till I learnt to carry just the most needed stuff I might use in battle. And had to develop new strategies when battling. In the event I let one of my characters to go critical, he/she would just defend 'till healed. This taught me to always keep an eye on the HP bar of my characters and also to observe and test the enemy first before attempting to unleash an attack that may leave me open to a devastating counter-attack. In short, I developed a sort of RPG "skills" that have proved quite useful in ALL others RPGs I played after LotD. I admit that at the beginning is difficult, specially if you never bothered about space inventory before, but I do not consider it to be a bug, but a challenge.
quote:
3) Because you use items up so quickly, the player must find a way to hoard them. So they spend a lot of time using the defend option to regenerate some small amount of HP. Combine that with the fact that you have to use a lengthy attack sequence and it makes many battles longer than they have any right to be.
If you rely too heavily on items, you're screwed in this game. You have to change your "traditional" RPG gameplay to "survive" mode. I liked that. Had to create strategies, think up combos, etc.
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4) You can't use items as a dragoon. Ironic, considering it's supposed to be the most powerful form. I guess dragoons are too good for items. Even worse...
Again the item stuff. Forget about them! And in the case you changed into dragoons form, you had to think very carefully if it was worth it or not. I usually just changed in boss fights only. And if it was just forced to do so. Still, gameplay changes considerably when in this form, but I won't elaborate on that. Discover it for yourself.
quote:
5) Once you've changed into a dragoon, there is no option to change back. You have to spend several turns being unable to use items or your regular combo. This is the only form that can use magic, and yet you can't even replenish MP by yourself?
It is up to you to change or not (well, in most cases). Still, you have a "Dragoon bar", so if you wanted to stay forever a dragoon you build up that bar to level 3, or you just can leave at level 1, change, use dragoons skills, change to normal mode again, build bar to the level you may need, etc. In short, develop a strategy.
quote:
And so forth. There are also issues with slow menus, hard-to-see action spots, horrible CD usage, and buggy counterattacks. All combined make LoD nothing but a huge amateur project.
I never had any sort of problems with the menus. Yes, there are some places (specially within a town) where it's hard to spot what's going on. No game is perfect. FF VII had a similar problem, sometimes I lost Cloud on the rendered screens. But nothing that you couldn't sort out. Don't know about CD usage, what do you mean? That they could have compressed the game within fewer CDs? also I don't remember any particular on counterattacks, but it's been a while since I played the game. Or ANY game. Bloody university.
quote:
Incidentally, I've heard that the majority of the game's ridiculously large budget went towards graphic artists and very little to designers and programmers, which would explain a lot about its bugs and design issues. Graphics over gameplay... and ironically the graphics weren't even that great.
They weren't as good as Square's graphics but they were not that bad also for a rookie proyect. I would say they're above average graphics of games with similar characteristics, but then again I haven't played every single game out there so I can't be sure. I enjoyed that "buggy" gameplay so much that after playing LotD most rival RPGs gameplays seemed so dull...just "open the menu -select an action", "open the menu -select an action","open the menu -select an action","open the menu -select an action", forever and ever. Don't you ever get tired of this as to try something new for a change? and about design, oh well, that's as subjective as to talk about what is art and what is not. Personally, I disliked most dragons of the game (with the exception of the TOUGH Divine Dragon), I still consider that the coolest dragons are the Bahamuts from FF VII, but hey, the game had to have some flaws, hadn't it not? ^_~
To sum up, I liked LotD a lot, had tons of fun when playing the game and I'd recommed it to anyone who wants to try something new on RPGs. But it is just my opinion.
Back on topic, I support that member who mentioned Lufia II for the SNES. It's an old school RPG, have funny characters, decent graphic, dragon-balls, and it's packed with so many puzzles as to keep you busy for a couple of weeks. On a side note, I think Wild Arms 2 ,hum, "borrowed" many elements from this game. What do you think?
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| Gojira 727th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(3):Really?" , posted Thu 28 Nov 16:04
quote:
Very true. In most RPGs I've played the limit of items you may carry is 99 of each kind. Still, this may lead you to rely too much on items, which may "soften" your gameplay. When I played LotD for the first time I complained a lot about this same issue 'till I learnt to carry just the most needed stuff I might use in battle. And had to develop new strategies when battling. In the event I let one of my characters to go critical, he/she would just defend 'till healed. This taught me to always keep an eye on the HP bar of my characters and also to observe and test the enemy first before attempting to unleash an attack that may leave me open to a devastating counter-attack. In short, I developed a sort of RPG "skills" that have proved quite useful in ALL others RPGs I played after LotD. I admit that at the beginning is difficult, specially if you never bothered about space inventory before, but I do not consider it to be a bug, but a challenge.
Simply using items in RPGs does not "soften" gameplay. Look at Suikoden series... limited item storage and usage, but it's not as much of an issue in that game because items are more thoroughly balanced.
quote:
Again the item stuff. Forget about them! And in the case you changed into dragoons form, you had to think very carefully if it was worth it or not. I usually just changed in boss fights only. And if it was just forced to do so. Still, gameplay changes considerably when in this form, but I won't elaborate on that. Discover it for yourself.
It is up to you to change or not (well, in most cases). Still, you have a "Dragoon bar", so if you wanted to stay forever a dragoon you build up that bar to level 3, or you just can leave at level 1, change, use dragoons skills, change to normal mode again, build bar to the level you may need, etc. In short, develop a strategy.
I prefer strategies that make practical sense. Being unable to use items because you're a dragoon, being able to change into a dragoon at will and being unable to change back until certain conditions are met, having to change your *only* combo when not in battle and being unable to change it during battle, being unable to do damage if you don't have perfect timing, none of them make sense in any context except as ways to make programming the game easier. The game forces you to take risks in order to do simple things. You're just fighting with the engine 90% of the time. Some "strategy".
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I never had any sort of problems with the menus. Yes, there are some places (specially within a town) where it's hard to spot what's going on. No game is perfect. FF VII had a similar problem, sometimes I lost Cloud on the rendered screens. But nothing that you couldn't sort out. Don't know about CD usage, what do you mean? That they could have compressed the game within fewer CDs? also I don't remember any particular on counterattacks, but it's been a while since I played the game. Or ANY game. Bloody university.
The menus are SLOW. Just bringing up the status screen take 5 seconds too long, considering it's supposed to be something you do often. I guess since it had to load the crappy menu music, that added to the disc access time. Quite a mistake.
The CD issue is a couple of things... one, that they could have stored more on a single CD but they didn't compress it well. Second, near the end, if you want to go back to old areas you have to insert a previous CD just to do so. That's such an ancient design faux-pas I was shocked to see it in a console game made after 1995.
Counterattacks had a very stupid and simple bug that would have been easy to find and fix where you could win a battle with all party members dead. The mere fact it was in there is just a testament to the shoddy work that was done on the game. Either they had horrible testers or the game had so many of these bugs that missing this one would have been easy. Whatever the reason it just points to laziness or lack of thoroughness.
quote:
They weren't as good as Square's graphics but they were not that bad also for a rookie proyect. I would say they're above average graphics of games with similar characteristics, but then again I haven't played every single game out there so I can't be sure. I enjoyed that "buggy" gameplay so much that after playing LotD most rival RPGs gameplays seemed so dull...just "open the menu -select an action", "open the menu -select an action","open the menu -select an action","open the menu -select an action", forever and ever. Don't you ever get tired of this as to try something new for a change? and about design, oh well, that's as subjective as to talk about what is art and what is not. Personally, I disliked most dragons of the game (with the exception of the TOUGH Divine Dragon), I still consider that the coolest dragons are the Bahamuts from FF VII, but hey, the game had to have some flaws, hadn't it not? ^_~
LoD had plenty of the menu thing. I don't know why you seem to think it didn't. LoD wasn't really that much different from any other traditional RPG. Many of its ideas had already been done better in other RPGs. It's just a traditional RPG with the design raped and raped repeatedly until you had to take a huge risk just to scratch your ass. Of course since scratching your ass was never so risky in other RPGs, I guess people can be easily fooled into thinking it's fresh and innovative.
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| Makondo99
83th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(4):Really?" , posted Fri 29 Nov 07:01:
quote:
Simply using items in RPGs does not "soften" gameplay. Look at Suikoden series... limited item storage and usage, but it's not as much of an issue in that game because items are more thoroughly balanced.
I've been unable to play the Suikoden series TT_TT yet. It's sort of hard to find RPGs in here, and the PSX market is slowly fading away, so my chances to find them are quite slim...
Anyway, what I was trying to say is that the limited item storage in LotD somehow forces you rely less on items and more on gameplay/strategy. This implies that you shouldn't let your characters go critical, a thing that isn't much of a problem in, say, FF where you can throw in a high potion without worrying about running short of them (if you have spent some money on them).
You may like it or you may hate it, but this is how this game plays...
quote:
I prefer strategies that make practical sense. Being unable to use items because you're a dragoon, being able to change into a dragoon at will and being unable to change back until certain conditions are met, having to change your *only* combo when not in battle and being unable to change it during battle, being unable to do damage if you don't have perfect timing, none of them make sense in any context except as ways to make programming the game easier. The game forces you to take risks in order to do simple things. You're just fighting with the engine 90% of the time. Some "strategy".
You have to develop a strategy/gameplay in any game you play. Labeling them "silly", "unfair", "lame", "cheap", etc. Depends on the player. And varies from player to player (i.e. any person can think differently about them and this is OK). You DO damage even if you don't score a perfect combo, actually Albert usually finishes the enemies with his higher combos when he is in the middle of performing it (hence you usually don't have to have a 100% hit score when battling to survive). The combo you choose depends on you, although it would have been nice to be able to change it within battle, but heck, that's the way it is. Maybe they will fix this if there's a sequel. And, actually, what else are you supposed to do with the battle engine but to fight it? @_@ Isn't it what it is supposed to be build for?
quote:
The menus are SLOW. Just bringing up the status screen take 5 seconds too long, considering it's supposed to be something you do often. I guess since it had to load the crappy menu music, that added to the disc access time. Quite a mistake.
You know, I'm really curious about this issue so I'll check it when I have some spare time. It's been years since I last played LotD, though.
quote:
The CD issue is a couple of things... one, that they could have stored more on a single CD but they didn't compress it well. Second, near the end, if you want to go back to old areas you have to insert a previous CD just to do so. That's such an ancient design faux-pas I was shocked to see it in a console game made after 1995.
Counterattacks had a very stupid and simple bug that would have been easy to find and fix where you could win a battle with all party members dead. The mere fact it was in there is just a testament to the shoddy work that was done on the game. Either they had horrible testers or the game had so many of these bugs that missing this one would have been easy. Whatever the reason it just points to laziness or lack of thoroughness.
First, how do you know that they didn't compress it well?
Second, this is the first time I've heard of such a bug. Never happened to me. Wierd.
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LoD had plenty of the menu thing. I don't know why you seem to think it didn't. LoD wasn't really that much different from any other traditional RPG. Many of its ideas had already been done better in other RPGs. It's just a traditional RPG with the design raped and raped repeatedly until you had to take a huge risk just to scratch your ass. Of course since scratching your ass was never so risky in other RPGs, I guess people can be easily fooled into thinking it's fresh and innovative.
I never said it didn't have menus but rather that it has an innovative way to perform some usual tasks within a game (attacking). I have yet to play a RPG where you'are supposed to "scrach your ass". Better still, I have yet to play a game that does not "borrow" things from others games, movies, books, etc. My guess it's that it's really difficult to come up with new and fresh ideas that may appeal to people and that can actually be carried out. Say, I'd love to play with a Holodeck (sp?) but we are faaaar from having such a technology. Finally, all I can say it's that I liked the game you seem to dislike, but this is not big deal since ,as British say, "one person's meat it's another person's poison". And I kind of regret to have spoiled Luisinan's thread into a personal disscusion of sorts. I'm really sorry about this, Luisinan.
And Gojira, could we end this little issue here? 'cause I daresay that we will never reach an agreement. Peace man ^_^
Edit: I had to write this in two shifts. Blame university's crazy public PC policy.
[this message was edited by Makondo99 on Fri 29 Nov 08:39] |
| Gojira 729th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(5):Really?" , posted Fri 29 Nov 15:03
quote:
First, how do you know that they didn't compress it well?
It's not so much the compression technically, but they used cheap shortcut techniques that contributed immensely to the amount of wasted storage on the CDs, like using FMV to display a simple scrolling image for example (disc 1, I think). I'm sure they could have easily fit the whole game onto 3 CDs if they hadn't wasted storage to make things easier to program.
quote:
I never said it didn't have menus but rather that it has an innovative way to perform some usual tasks within a game (attacking). I have yet to play a RPG where you'are supposed to "scrach your ass". Better still, I have yet to play a game that does not "borrow" things from others games, movies, books, etc. My guess it's that it's really difficult to come up with new and fresh ideas that may appeal to people and that can actually be carried out. Say, I'd love to play with a Holodeck (sp?) but we are faaaar from having such a technology. Finally, all I can say it's that I liked the game you seem to dislike, but this is not big deal since ,as British say, "one person's meat it's another person's poison".
It's not hard to be original, if you have the right mindset. LoD doesn't really try all that hard to be something innovative, it just takes traditional ideas and messes them up just to be different.
quote:
And I kind of regret to have spoiled Luisinan's thread into a personal disscusion of sorts. I'm really sorry about this, Luisinan.
This isn't a personal discussion, it's two opposing views on a game of questionable appeal. If anything he can use the information to decide if he cares enough to try LoD, so I don't believe it's spoiled anything.
quote:
And Gojira, could we end this little issue here? 'cause I daresay that we will never reach an agreement. Peace man ^_^
Sure. Obviously I don't like talking about a game that I hate, even if I don't mind talking about design mistakes so I won't repeat them myself. And no offense, but you started it. I just don't like leaving questions unanswered. ^_^
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"Re(7):Really?"