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| OYashiroForever
51th Post
 
Occasional Customer
  
|  "<cracks knuckles> "Hurt me more!!!!!" :)"
, posted Sat 16 Nov 23:49
quote:
Then you would be correct, assuming the liner notes from the game's soundtrack is correct.  While I far prefer the music from CC, Uematsu hasn't done anything as good as CT in a LONG time (FF6, probably).
opinions, opinions
bakabakabakabakabaka
uh, bakla, rather
While I have no desire to have this thread devolve in to a flame war, I dare you to find a soundtrack Nobuo's done in the last 5 years that is as musically rich as the CC or Xenosaga OST. (And please be objective..) Oh, and the first person who says "FFX" gets stabbed in the eye.  (I like the game, but the music was mind-numbingly repetitive)
Opinions are just that... but an opinion based on practical knowledge and research is simply more valuable than one based on ignorance and personal preference. I'm certainly not implying that you are ignorant... just making a broad statement.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of Nobuo's work, including the stuff he's done in the last 5 years. However, I can't help but pick a fight. Nobuo, poor fellow, is just asked to do way too much work. He's had to do an FF a year for the last 5 years (6 if XII makes it on time)... that's 70+ tracks per game (not including remixes and piano). I don't care how good you are... having to come up with that much material is going to affect the quality of each individual piece.
ARGH! Must... stop... typing... must... prevent... flame... war... must... stop... talking... like... William... Shatner.
Ahhh, fuck it. 
"I haven't slept for 10 days because that would be too long."
"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see through you."
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| Juke Joint Jezebel 1113th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
 
    
    
 
|  "screw the whip *spreads legs*"
, posted Sun 17 Nov 00:36
i tried to keep this rather friendly, as your first post was just your usual absolute and hostile tone, but quite frankly i'm pretty sick of listening to your shit, OYashiroForever. let this turn into a flame war. (haha, probably the first on this board ever)
i'm fucking ready
"Opinions are just that... but an opinion based on practical knowledge and research is simply more valuable than one based on ignorance and personal preference. I'm certainly not implying that you are ignorant... just making a broad statement."
really, what is that? more of your useless tripe? oh, wait. i said that wrong. this is what i meant
[goes into OYashiro mode] but... you're basing your facts on such relative notions which are not quite variably as one would put them out to be. the perceived opposition of the human soul isn't that which is, but that which was. so you see, i'm not implying that you're a totalitarian. [/out of dogshit mode]
i'm fucking calling you one. your "my way or no other way" views are pretty god damn annoying, and i feel like i'm repeating what's been said in the art thread when i say that one person's opinion of "which of Nobuo's work has been as musically rich as the Chrono Cross (CC = Chrono Cross?) or Xenosaga OSTs in the past five years" will, of course, differ from another's. and i don't know where the hell you got Chrono Cross from when Chrono Trigger is what the original topic was about. it's as if two people were having a conversation about why deserts have an arid climate, and all of a sudden you come out complaining that your dessert is sometimes very dry
ah, and i almost forgot
 Heart of Sword
"I say take the controller away from her and make her go back and do it old school style with the Nintendo Duck Hunt Gun." -- Unknown
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| Sklathill
77th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(4):Chrono Trigger music" , posted Sun 17 Nov 12:32
quote:
...but the fact is that Yasunori Mitsuda is a GOD.
WHOA there. I like Mitsuda and all that, but in Xenogears, I think he proved that he is very inexperienced in working with orchestral textures. A very good musician and composer, yes, but he's got quite a bit to learn moving from PSX synth to small studio session to orchestra.
And I like Sakimoto better. :) Of course, he too has the exact same problem...doesn't sound very experienced with patch programming in his arranged music of console hardware synth games. (Radiant Silvergun AST) Kanno is pretty damn GREAT, good on the electronic front, in the studio, and in front of an orchestra, but she's not experienced with the paradigms of game music creation...which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does make for a shift in listening style, short ideas to longer ideas. Uematsu...well, he's gotta get back to basics. Sort of like how Hans Zimmer, despite his technology, has always obsessed over the creation of the perfect theme. Uematsu has to return to those roots of strong thematic material...and his textures and mixing in the electronic realm aren't up to par either.
Honestly, some of these guys should take a cue from some of the guys in America and Europe who always seem to be lost and forgotten. Check out Bill Brown, who's got technique up the wazoo and the ability to move between many different textures in both acoustic and electronic instruments. Jeremy Soule is just awesome. A VERY good orchestrator. Chance Thomas, Alexandor Brandon, Thor Cell, great guys with strong records and solid solid music technique. Check out a guy named Jake Kaufman. He's spent a lot of time lately on game boy generation games (his latest high profile game was Shante for the Game Boy Color) but he's got a bunch of other things coming out, including one for the Xbox. Young guy, but DAMN he's got chops.
Uh...okay...back to your regularly scheduled program...
The Temptation of Wheat is upon us!
---
www.insertcredit.com
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| Hagen de Merak
203th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(4):Chrono Trigger music" , posted Sun 17 Nov 15:05
quote:
Yep, you can tell from far away that the soundtrack in the Chrono/Xeno games is just too good to be made by Uematsu...
Hehe, agree. It's not that Uematsu's music is bad, in fact, his SNES era was great, and I like a lot FF9 music, but the fact is that Yasunori Mitsuda is a GOD.
A GOD? let's not go overboard........well, nevermind, i guess to you he is, we all have our opinions.
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| Time Mage 999th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(5):Chrono Trigger music" , posted Sun 17 Nov 15:09
quote:
Yep, you can tell from far away that the soundtrack in the Chrono/Xeno games is just too good to be made by Uematsu...
Hehe, agree. It's not that Uematsu's music is bad, in fact, his SNES era was great, and I like a lot FF9 music, but the fact is that Yasunori Mitsuda is a GOD.
A GOD? let's not go overboard........well, nevermind, i guess to you he is, we all have our opinions.
Well, I tend to exaggerate things... Don't thake that too literally. I only wanted to say that I think he's one of the best (if not the best) videogame music composers. That's all.
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| OYashiroForever
55th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Flames are for firemen and smokers" , posted Sun 17 Nov 18:10:
<sigh> What was that old proverb? Ahh yes... the road to hell is paved with good intention. While the tone of my first two posts may have been slightly abrasive and even a smidge elitist (well, maybe more than a smidge), your response is out n' out bile. Might I suggest a few slow, deep breaths... or perhaps a nice, mild sedative?
quote:
i tried to keep this rather friendly, as your first post was just your usual absolute and hostile tone, but quite frankly i'm pretty sick of listening to your shit, OYashiroForever. let this turn into a flame war. (haha, probably the first on this board ever)
i'm fucking ready
Actually, I have no intention of dragging this conversation out any longer than need be unless it becomes civil. Then again, normally debates of this nature end fairly quickly once the name-calling and macho posing and posturing are over with. Oh... and just so we're clear, at no time was this a friendly discussion. Your first post essentially amounts to "opinions aren't facts, stupid".
quote:
really, what is that? more of your useless tripe? oh, wait. i said that wrong. this is what i meant
[goes into OYashiro mode] but... you're basing your facts on such relative notions which are not quite variably as one would put them out to be. the perceived opposition of the human soul isn't that which is, but that which was. so you see, i'm not implying that you're a totalitarian. [/out of dogshit mode]
i'm fucking calling you one. your "my way or no other way" views are pretty god damn annoying,
Hmm... well, I apologize for being able to use the English language properly and having the ability to express myself in more than 5 word sentences. From now on, I promise I'll keep the words under 6 letters and do my best to sprinkle my writing with plenty of "fuck"s, "shit"s, and "god damn"s so you can understand them better.
All sarcasm aside, your opinion is perfectly valid, assuming of course that your opinion is that Uematsu is a better composer. If you'd like to argue that point seriously without resorting to a "prick-waving dick-fight", I'd be happy to argue the counter-point. However, if you're simply picking a fight because you found my initial post elitist or haughty... GET A LIFE.
quote:
the art thread when i say that one person's opinion of "which of Nobuo's work has been as musically rich as the Chrono Cross (CC = Chrono Cross?) or Xenosaga OSTs in the past five years" will, of course, differ from another's. and i don't know where the hell you got Chrono Cross from when Chrono Trigger is what the original topic was about. it's as if two people were having a conversation about why deserts have an arid climate, and all of a sudden you come out complaining that your dessert is sometimes very dry
While your little example was cute, it's totally off-base. In my initial post, I wrote that while I prefer CC's music, CT's is still better than anything Uematsu has rushed out in the last 5 years. You then countered with the standard reply of "opinions are opinions, stupid". My 2nd post, while indeed a bit elitist and haughty, was at its root a challenge for debate. Obviously, you took it as a personal attack (or at least that's what your 2nd post would imply) and here we are. This thread may have started as a question regarding who wrote the music for CT, but as soon as you made your first reply, this discussion became about the relative merit of Uematsu and Mitsuda's work, making CC a perfectly legitimate topic of discussion. Unless, of course, your point was simply to "put me in my place", in which case you were just wasting bandwidth.
quote:
ah, and i almost forgot
Flashback humor. How coy. Ball's in your court, sweetie. If you want to discuss this perfectly legitimate argument, I'm game. There are few things I enjoy more than argumentation. (keeps the mind sharp) However, if your intention here is to wave your digital penis around and make yourself feel important, I'm not interested.
"I haven't slept for 10 days because that would be too long."
"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see through you."
[this message was edited by OYashiroForever on Sun 17 Nov 18:12] |
| OYashiroForever
55th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(5):Chrono Trigger music" , posted Sun 17 Nov 18:49
First reply was eaten by Mozilla. ("Ohhhh... Mozirra is attacking the city!") Take two.
quote:
...but the fact is that Yasunori Mitsuda is a GOD.
WHOA there. I like Mitsuda and all that, but in Xenogears, I think he proved that he is very inexperienced in working with orchestral textures. A very good musician and composer, yes, but he's got quite a bit to learn moving from PSX synth to small studio session to orchestra.
Hmmm... well, while I'd certainly agree that Xenogears was one of his weakest works, I'd say he's learned VERY fast since then. If you were referring to Xenosaga, I'd have to strongly disagree. While a few of the tracks seem to be a little too bombastic for the game at times, I think they're excellent stand-alone pieces musically. (not just "they sound purty")
quote:
And I like Sakimoto better. :) Of course, he too has the exact same problem...doesn't sound very experienced with patch programming in his arranged music of console hardware synth games. (Radiant Silvergun AST) Kanno is pretty damn GREAT, good on the electronic front, in the studio, and in front of an orchestra, but she's not experienced with the paradigms of game music creation...which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does make for a shift in listening style, short ideas to longer ideas. Uematsu...well, he's gotta get back to basics. Sort of like how Hans Zimmer, despite his technology, has always obsessed over the creation of the perfect theme. Uematsu has to return to those roots of strong thematic material...and his textures and mixing in the electronic realm aren't up to par either.
Honestly, some of these guys should take a cue from some of the guys in America and Europe who always seem to be lost and forgotten. Check out Bill Brown, who's got technique up the wazoo and the ability to move between many different textures in both acoustic and electronic instruments. Jeremy Soule is just awesome. A VERY good orchestrator. Chance Thomas, Alexandor Brandon, Thor Cell, great guys with strong records and solid solid music technique. Check out a guy named Jake Kaufman. He's spent a lot of time lately on game boy generation games (his latest high profile game was Shante for the Game Boy Color) but he's got a bunch of other things coming out, including one for the Xbox. Young guy, but DAMN he's got chops.
Uh...okay...back to your regularly scheduled program...
All excellent recommendations and a couple I haven't heard of yet (though you're the 2nd person to recommend Kaufman... heading to Kazaa as we speak). Sakimoto is an absolute genius... and while we're throwing around American composers, I have to toss in my 2 cents for Thomas Newman (Shawshank Redemption, Green Mile, Road to Perdition, etc.). I haven't seen anyone out there who does melancholy quite as well.
<digging out Shawshank soundtrack>
"I haven't slept for 10 days because that would be too long."
"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see through you."
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| Juke Joint Jezebel 1115th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
| "bakla for the soul" , posted Sun 17 Nov 21:52
actually, i smoke and i'm training to become a fireman, but your title was probably just a lucky guess
oh yay! tear my post apart! i suppose i deserve that after quoting you. anyways, what's a flame war without one person using another person's post against them? speaking of that quote, let me quote it again, because this is probably one of the sources that riled me up so much
"Opinions are just that... but an opinion based on practical knowledge and research is simply more valuable than one based on ignorance and personal preference. I'm certainly not implying that you are ignorant... just making a broad statement."
first, one person's "practical knowledge" may be seen through the eyes of another person as a "personal preference." what is practical knowledge? please, don't answer that. that was rhetorical. anyways, i don't feel like listening to any more of your "definitions" right now
second, what "research" are you referring to? that Uematsu is being overworked and thus whatever he produces is automatically crap? i agree with you that they're overworking him, but you can't deny the quality of his work. i, and probably several others, wouldn't feel the way we do about Final Fantasy if it wasn't for the music. that same music during those certain scenes that touched us when we're most emotionally vulnerable. (don't think of me as a girl or a sissy or too emotional. really, how many of you weren't touched while playing through Final Fantasy VII? if you didn't feel anything during that certain scene, you've got a heart of stone or you must've had a grudge against that certain character. for me, the battle afterwards, as it played that same gentle music, filled me with such anger. i'm sure a few others felt the same. Final Fantasy wouldn't be the same without the music. FFVII's just one example. i have several others but i decided to choose the strongest one.)
from your point of view, OYashiro, i haven't played FFX yet, but i can imagine the repetitive nature of the songs. in FFIX, i can't stand "Ipsen's Heritage," which is just a horrible remix of the main theme of the game. of course, again, just an opinion. but i guess i can somewhat see where you're coming from
third, you're not implying that i'm ignorant?! could you be less subtle in your lashes? that's probably the feather that tipped the scale
my opinion isn't that Uematsu is better than Mitsuda. i've heard a huge majority of Uematsu's work and only a small bit of Mitsuda's. i'm not at a position to glorify one and condemn the other, and i don't think you are either. you said earlier that Uematsu hasn't done anything as good as Chrono Trigger since maybe Final Fantasy VI. that's where my "opinions, opinions" statement comes from. FFVI has good music, but in my opinion it's probably near the bottom of my list of "favorite Uematsu themes." and to call that some of his best .... it's just another opinion
i hate how flamers everywhere try to keep it "friendly" with laughter and silly faces. if you're going to attack someone, don't smile and giggle and tell them "you know, i'm just saying!" afterwards. what a kick in the scrotum that is. state your point and don't be afraid of being attacked
on this board, you don't see me dominating everyone. i don't know where you got the idea of me waving my "digital penis" around. simply put, i don't like you. a while ago, i didn't even notice you. then one day i hear you ranting about the subject of top tiers. another day, i see more of your posts explaining why your existence makes the sun shine. time after time, your posts just piss me off more and more. sometimes, i'm on your side in your opinions, but the way you say it is just an intelligent way of calling the rest of us losers. it's very irritating. also, i've met people like you before. people exactly like you. you can imagine why i feel so strongly now
(as you've probably noticed, i've used less swearing in this post. you caught me off guard last night. high emotions and insomnia can be just as bad as alchohol. anyways, i was sick of reading "flock" in that other thread. now how fucking annoying of a word is that?)
 Heart of Sword
kittens are poptarts(01:32 AM) :
hmmm models
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| OYashiroForever
56th Post
Occasional Customer
| "And so our day comes to an end..." , posted Sun 17 Nov 23:39
The 2nd time tonight Mozilla has hosed me 1/2 way through writing a post. <sigh> If only IE wasn't such a bug-riddled piece of shite. Anywho...
quote:
actually, i smoke and i'm training to become a fireman, but your title was probably just a lucky guess
Yes, you can call me Miss Cleo. Luck all the way. Though one piece of advice from an ex-smoker (for 7 years): QUIT! Not because it's disgusting, will kill you, makes you smell, etc. (whiny non-smoker stuff), but because it's expensive as shit and soaks up entirely too much money ($100 a month for me in my heyday).
quote:
oh yay! tear my post apart! i suppose i deserve that after quoting you. anyways, what's a flame war without one person using another person's post against them? speaking of that quote, let me quote it again, because this is probably one of the sources that riled me up so much
Intelligent discussion is also conducted this way. Point/counter-point. However, on to more important matters.
quote:
"Opinions are just that... but an opinion based on practical knowledge and research is simply more valuable than one based on ignorance and personal preference. I'm certainly not implying that you are ignorant... just making a broad statement."
I had a nice, juicy example all written down before Mozilla gave me the boot. However, I'll leave it at this: if you had a question (with no factual answer), whose opinion on the matter would you respect more (regardless of whether you agreed with said opinion): some random person on a message board or an expert in that field?
quote:
i agree with you that they're overworking him, but you can't deny the quality of his work.
Please re-read the final paragraph of my 2nd post. I enjoy Nobuo's work (even 7-11), but you yourself agree that the man is overworked. I think you'd probably also agree that people don't produce their best work when they're up to their ass in work and have a very strict deadline. I know I sure don't.
<snip FF7 anecdote>
I'm the exact same way. I cried at the end of disc 1 in FF7. I also cried at the end of FF10 (Japanese version... haven't gotten a chance to play through it English yet, though I heard they changed a VERY critical line at the end that would greatly piss me off if it's true). Both beautiful scenes that were helped by the musical accompaniment (sp?). Has Nobuo's work in the last 5 years been bad? No. That's not what we were debating.
quote:
third, you're not implying that i'm ignorant?! could you be less subtle in your lashes? that's probably the feather that tipped the scale
Feel free to pick apart any of my posts in this thread and point out where I imply that you're ignorant. Apart from the one sarcastic paragraph in my previous post (which was marked as such and not to be taken seriously), you'll have a tough time. Everything I have written up to this point has been set conditionally (if you did this for this reason, then you're ignorant). I write that way intentionally because I wish people to explain themselves before I accuse them of being anything. Don't wanna rush to snap judgments, no?
quote:
my opinion isn't that Uematsu is better than Mitsuda. i've heard a huge majority of Uematsu's work and only a small bit of Mitsuda's. i'm not at a position to glorify one and condemn the other, and i don't think you are either. you said earlier that Uematsu hasn't done anything as good as Chrono Trigger since maybe Final Fantasy VI. that's where my "opinions, opinions" statement comes from. FFVI has good music, but in my opinion it's probably near the bottom of my list of "favorite Uematsu themes." and to call that some of his best .... it's just another opinion
Indeed, it is an opinion. One based on knowledge (I've played through all 10 offline FFs and own the soundtracks for 1-11) and experience in the field of music, but an opinion nonetheless. I also own the vast majority of the soundtracks Mitsuda has worked on... and played through those games as well. (Note: I'm not rattling off this information to make myself look important/intelligent... merely to counter your point and justify it with facts)
quote:
i hate how flamers everywhere try to keep it "friendly" with laughter and silly faces. if you're going to attack someone, don't smile and giggle and tell them "you know, i'm just saying!" afterwards. what a kick in the scrotum that is. state your point and don't be afraid of being attacked
While I agree with this point, my initial levity was more to steer the conversation away from flaming and in to more friendly discussion. Flaming is a waste of bandwidth. Friendly, intelligent discussion is not.
quote:
on this board, you don't see me dominating everyone. i don't know where you got the idea of me waving my "digital penis" around.
The tone of your previous post, if you're wondering. I may be fairly new to this board, but your attitude and choice of words in that particular post REEKED of the breed on the internet that generally keep me away from message boards. Now that you've explained yourself a little more thoroughly, you're obviously not that kind of person. However, I think it's fairly safe to say anyone could probably get the wrong impression of you having only read that post.
quote:
simply put, i don't like you. a while ago, i didn't even notice you. then one day i hear you ranting about the subject of top tiers. another day, i see more of your posts explaining why your existence makes the sun shine. time after time, your posts just piss me off more and more. sometimes, i'm on your side in your opinions, but the way you say it is just an intelligent way of calling the rest of us losers. it's very irritating. also, i've met people like you before. people exactly like you. you can imagine why i feel so strongly now
Perhaps I spoke too soon. You're more than welcome to not like me... your perogative. However, allow me to make something perfectly clear: you don't know me. You don't know who I am, where I live, what I do, what I know... nothing. All you have to go on about me is what I write on this board in the context of whatever I'm talking about.
Much in the same way that you could've had a sudden burst of negativity and thrown out a slew of expletives, I can certainly have a bad day. In addition, I generally don't write or discuss anything about topics about which I know very little (I figure why clutter up boards with inane chatter and "lol "s). I absolutely never write things with the intention of making people look stupid (unless the've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are, of course) and I don't think I'm inherently superior to anyone on this board. If you got that impression from my posts, my apologies. Not an awful lot I could've done about that. No one else has ever complained about my style of writing or my style of argumentation...
quote:
(as you've probably noticed, i've used less swearing in this post. you caught me off guard last night. high emotions and insomnia can be just as bad as alchohol. anyways, i was sick of reading "flock" in that other thread. now how fucking annoying of a word is that?)
Depends on the type of alcoholic you are, I s'pose. Like I said, it's obvious from this post that you're not simply one of those irritating Internet fanboys that jump down people's throats at the drop of a hat over minutia in order to combat some perceived shortcoming in their own life.
With that said, I'm ending my participation in this discussion (collective sigh of relief). You're welcome to get in the last word if you so desire, but this is done. If you choose to "hate" me because of my style of writing or the way I present my arguments, that's dandy. Not very mature, but dandy. I'd much rather we simply settle our differences and agree that we misunderstood each other and live happily ever after (or at least peacefully). Your decision, though...
"I haven't slept for 10 days because that would be too long."
"Your denial is beneath you and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs I see through you."
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"Chrono Trigger music" 
