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| Juke Joint Jezebel 997th Post
 
Red Carpet Regular Member++
    
    
    
|  "Re(1):A little note on Evangelion's depth..."
, posted Wed 23 Oct 14:14
quote:
However unlike other cartoons that try to be deep (*cough* Evangelion *cough*)
[snip]
Be quite careful with that statement. I had a friend who took several Jewish Studies college courses, and the way she described Evangelion is that "If there's a level of depth you want to explore in that series, there's always at least one depth lower to go." Plotline developments, the names of several symbols, the number of Eva Units -- even the physical features of the Eva Units have some references to the Torah or Bible. And there's always one level deeper, according to her -- which is why she gets incredibly miffed when someone tries to pass it off as "another mecha-type series."
So, at least according to my friend, take several courses on the Torah or Bible, and you should understand a lot more of the imagery and symbolism that goes on in that series.
agred. completely.
i swear, every little thing in Eva's got some sort of meaning. i've seen the whole series at least three times, and i've seen Death and Rebirth three times as well (haven't seen End of Eva yet -_-)
anyways, my point. every time i see it, i discover something new that i had absolutely no idea was there before. and not just something small. something that made me sit down and think for about half an hour. there is so much symbolism in it, you seriously have no idea
in Death and Rebirth, the commentary alone, was enough to blow my mind away
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| wingzero 1056th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member
|  "Re(2):A little note on Evangelion's depth..."
, posted Wed 23 Oct 16:16
quote:
However unlike other cartoons that try to be deep (*cough* Evangelion *cough*)
[snip]
Be quite careful with that statement. I had a friend who took several Jewish Studies college courses, and the way she described Evangelion is that "If there's a level of depth you want to explore in that series, there's always at least one depth lower to go." Plotline developments, the names of several symbols, the number of Eva Units -- even the physical features of the Eva Units have some references to the Torah or Bible. And there's always one level deeper, according to her -- which is why she gets incredibly miffed when someone tries to pass it off as "another mecha-type series."
So, at least according to my friend, take several courses on the Torah or Bible, and you should understand a lot more of the imagery and symbolism that goes on in that series.
agred. completely.
i swear, every little thing in Eva's got some sort of meaning. i've seen the whole series at least three times, and i've seen Death and Rebirth three times as well (haven't seen End of Eva yet -_-)
anyways, my point. every time i see it, i discover something new that i had absolutely no idea was there before. and not just something small. something that made me sit down and think for about half an hour. there is so much symbolism in it, you seriously have no idea
in Death and Rebirth, the commentary alone, was enough to blow my mind away
symbolism doesnt make a series deep. dont get me wrong though i'm not saying eva is not deep, i'm not saying it is either. if you or whoever can find depth in it, the that is what gives it depth. symbolism might show some education on part of the shows makers, but i think depth is something the viewer makes. Take this anime Berserk, not much besides violence, but to me its character development and story were deep, it gave it depth to me.
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| Rid Hershel 3821th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
   
| "my take on Eva" , posted Wed 23 Oct 16:23
quote:
Be quite careful with that statement. I had a friend who took several Jewish Studies college courses, and the way she described Evangelion is that "If there's a level of depth you want to explore in that series, there's always at least one depth lower to go." Plotline developments, the names of several symbols, the number of Eva Units -- even the physical features of the Eva Units have some references to the Torah or Bible. And there's always one level deeper, according to her -- which is why she gets incredibly miffed when someone tries to pass it off as "another mecha-type series."
So, at least according to my friend, take several courses on the Torah or Bible, and you should understand a lot more of the imagery and symbolism that goes on in that series.
Eva is deep, that's true. Well done, and studied. I've read a lot about it.
Does that makes the characters and story more likeable? not for me. Want teology, psychology and philosophy? enjoy it. I prefer some characters with more charisma, maybe more unrealistic, if you want to say that.
I had more fun in the first episode of King Gainer or Shaman King than I've ever had with "Shinji the whinner".
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| Hungrywolf 1659th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(1):my take on Eva" , posted Wed 23 Oct 17:01
quote:
Be quite careful with that statement. I had a friend who took several Jewish Studies college courses, and the way she described Evangelion is that "If there's a level of depth you want to explore in that series, there's always at least one depth lower to go." Plotline developments, the names of several symbols, the number of Eva Units -- even the physical features of the Eva Units have some references to the Torah or Bible. And there's always one level deeper, according to her -- which is why she gets incredibly miffed when someone tries to pass it off as "another mecha-type series."
So, at least according to my friend, take several courses on the Torah or Bible, and you should understand a lot more of the imagery and symbolism that goes on in that series.
Eva is deep, that's true. Well done, and studied. I've read a lot about it.
Does that makes the characters and story more likeable? not for me. Want teology, psychology and philosophy? enjoy it. I prefer some characters with more charisma, maybe more unrealistic, if you want to say that.
I had more fun in the first episode of King Gainer or Shaman King than I've ever had with "Shinji the whinner".
I suppose if a person finds Eva deep, it is deep. I don't think it is. At least, it's never been deep to me. It began as a wonderful series, I even liked Shinji, and then the end of the series made me hate it.
"Someday we'll find it the rainbow connection..." -Kermit The Muppet Movie
Hungry Like the Wolf
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| Radish 449th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(1):A little note on Evangelion's depth..." , posted Wed 23 Oct 19:37
quote:
However unlike other cartoons that try to be deep (*cough* Evangelion *cough*)
[snip]
Be quite careful with that statement. I had a friend who took several Jewish Studies college courses, and the way she described Evangelion is that "If there's a level of depth you want to explore in that series, there's always at least one depth lower to go." Plotline developments, the names of several symbols, the number of Eva Units -- even the physical features of the Eva Units have some references to the Torah or Bible. And there's always one level deeper, according to her -- which is why she gets incredibly miffed when someone tries to pass it off as "another mecha-type series."
So, at least according to my friend, take several courses on the Torah or Bible, and you should understand a lot more of the imagery and symbolism that goes on in that series.
Yeah, I understand all that. I know that each of the evas has physical characteristics resembling actual demons. It's been awhile since I've studied that segment of mythology but I remember one demon having 4 eyes and whatnot. Plus the whole "people becoming one entity" thing is also rooted deep in Judeo mythos so I know they did their homework. I really have to get around to reading the Cabana... I've been putting it off. I'm not sure how a
Roman soldier was strong enough to heft that Lance of Longinus, though. People must have been bigger in those days.
I admit that I really wasn't clear on my point. I just don't want to have to have a degree in the Cabana to enjoy a tv series, although I appreciate having to work in order to fully understand what's going on beneath the surface. I think that Eva could have incorperated its depth, but not at the expense of making it enjoyable. The last bunch of episodes dramatically changed the feel of the series and felt totally out of place. At the end of Spirited Away I knew I was missing something, but that didn't detract from the fact that the movie was over and something was completed, unlike the group therapy session that ended the Eva series.
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| Holiday 1479th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(2):Spirited Away - English dub" , posted Wed 23 Oct 22:43
quote:
I posted here a few weeks ago about the dub, in this thread: Go see Spirited Away
To summarize, dub is very good.
Ah, sorry. I didn't notice that post before :)
Thanks! That was a good review.
But anyway, a cinema showing anime is already a rare occasion, so I'm going to watch it no matter what reviews say.
I'm just glad that from what I've read, they didn't botch up the dub job.
How did this thread mutate into an Eva discussion? ^^;;
As for Eva, the Bible & Torah references are definitely there, but I don't really think that an understanding of them really increases the enjoyment level. As Rid said, the main character is so unlikable that I find it hard to even like him or sympatise with his plight ^^
For a nice, confusing mecha anime, go watch RahXephon instead :)
Although one thing I like about Eva is that there are a lot of nice toys and gashapon (especially the K&M/Kaiyodo series) for it!
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| Juke Joint Jezebel 999th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "ba ba ba baaaaa" , posted Thu 24 Oct 14:00
wingzero: ah, yes. you've got a point. symbolism doesn't necessarily make a series deep. it just gives it more meaning. since your post, i've thought for a bit. what makes something deep? character development and story, you say (which actually is a pretty good answer), but how? i think Hungrywolf is right. the depth of something varies from person to person. but a person realizes depth once they figure out that the story isn't as simplistic as they first thought. in Evangelion, for example, it's once you learn that the series isn't just mindless fighting between mechas and aliens
several of you made the point that you enjoyed Eva up to the end. i can see why
Eva Series Spoiler
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
- we learn about the death of the first Rei. and now, Rei II, the Rei we've grown attached to the most, dies. her replacement, Rei III, is even colder and more solitary than the previous
- we learn of Asuka's past, and so does she. the 15th Angel comes and releases hell onto her mind. the end of the series doesn't explain what happened to her. she could've died in one of the final Angel battles for all we know
- Shinji cries over the death of a friend, even though by choosing death, Kaoru let him save mankind. selfish Shinji
- we all know what happened to Toji. but we don't know much else. like what i said about Asuka, he could've died in one of the final Angel battles. they don't make it clear
- they don't give us much time to grow attached to Kaoru so we probably don't feel the pain that Shinji goes through
- there's several other things that was left unclear, but the ones that bother me the most are the Eva children's classmates. like what i said about Asuka and Toji, THEY DON'T TELL US WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM COME ON!!!! >_< (hehe, it's my biggest complaint about the Eva series. could you tell?)
- and yes, the "group therapy session" at the end. i don't think any of us saw the human instrumentality project coming. it'd take up way too many episodes to do it to each character like the story planned, so they just showed us Shinji's
End of Spoiler
of course, no one really needs to know the full meanings of the symbolism used in Eva to enjoy it completely. it just gives us a little added kick when we figure out where they got some of the ideas for certain scenes
personally, Evangelion is the first anime series i've seen completely and is the only anime i own. maybe that's why i'm doing so much to argue in its case. there's other reasons as well
but anyways, as whiny and selfish as Shinji is, i still relate to him completely. i was once exactly like him (probably around the ages 8-12). every time i watch the series, i scream in my mind "don't put up with that shit, Shinji. quit running away, you little prick. come on! do something! fight back!!" but i can see exactly where he comes from. there is no other anime character out there that matches my father's personality as much as Gendou does
Hungrywolf: haha, i think Dr Baghead put it best when he said (this isn't an exact quote, but how i remembered it best) "Eva gives us characters to love, then takes them all away"
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| Hungrywolf 1664th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(1):ba ba ba baaaaa" , posted Thu 24 Oct 15:23
quote:
wingzero: ah, yes. you've got a point. symbolism doesn't necessarily make a series deep. it just gives it more meaning. since your post, i've thought for a bit. what makes something deep? character development and story, you say (which actually is a pretty good answer), but how? i think Hungrywolf is right. the depth of something varies from person to person. but a person realizes depth once they figure out that the story isn't as simplistic as they first thought. in Evangelion, for example, it's once you learn that the series isn't just mindless fighting between mechas and aliens
several of you made the point that you enjoyed Eva up to the end. i can see why
Eva Series Spoiler
of course, no one really needs to know the full meanings of the symbolism used in Eva to enjoy it completely. it just gives us a little added kick when we figure out where they got some of the ideas for certain scenes
personally, Evangelion is the first anime series i've seen completely and is the only anime i own. maybe that's why i'm doing so much to argue in its case. there's other reasons as well
but anyways, as whiny and selfish as Shinji is, i still relate to him completely. i was once exactly like him (probably around the ages 8-12). every time i watch the series, i scream in my mind "don't put up with that shit, Shinji. quit running away, you little prick. come on! do something! fight back!!" but i can see exactly where he comes from. there is no other anime character out there that matches my father's personality as much as Gendou does
Hungrywolf: haha, i think Dr Baghead put it best when he said (this isn't an exact quote, but how i remembered it best) "Eva gives us characters to love, then takes them all away"
That quotes very true, and why I don't like Evangelion, even though it started out being cool. And it wasn't just about Mechs in the beginning, I found the characters interesting and the story, but
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
it's just they tore them all to shreads in the end...
End of Spoiler
"Someday we'll find it the rainbow connection..." -Kermit The Muppet Movie
Hungry Like the Wolf
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| Gen 862th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(5):Spirited Away - English dub" , posted Tue 29 Oct 09:46
quote:
Oh there is 1 part about how teenagers these days sit too often in front of computers typing away and fail to express themselves in real life and have to use other ppl's voices or sayings to express. I wouldn't have caught that at all in a 100 times watching that...
What part of the movie was that?
Where did you hear about it?
When he first appears in the film, the character Kaonashi (literally, "No-Face") cannot speak. The best he can muster in the way of communications is a few feeble gestures and some unintelligible "muh...muh..." noises. Kaonashi is only able to speak after he eats one of the employees of the bathhouse, and the voice that comes from his mouth is that of the employee, not his own. He attempts to curry the favor of the other employees (and win the friendship of the main character) by giving them material gifts, rather than by any act of genuine kindness or compassion.
A quote from Miyazaki appears in one of the last trailers presented in the trailer collection on the Japanese Region-2 DVD release of this film: "Kaonashi is in all of us." In other words, a growing majority of modern humanity finds great difficulty communicating their emotions openly and honestly (and so instead express themselves with overused cliche and faux sentimentality), and in cultivating relationships based on something of lasting value (and so instead attempt to buy friendship with wealth or favors).
--Chris, Hoteiya Las Vegas
Thanks for the answer though. I think I understood that movie as much as possible without having heavy knowledge of Japan or having heard any of Miyazaki's comments for example. After I saw the movie, I read online some things Miyazaki said, which gave "looking for meaning" in the movie, have somewhere to look for it.
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Grr tiger.