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| Puar 388th Post
 
Silver Customer
  
    
|  "The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay Thread"
, posted Fri 27 Sep 12:39
All the debate over Street Fighter Alpha in the Street Fighter story thread has made me want to go play it, though I'm debating which one I want to play... The character roster in SFZ3 is to die for, but there are certain gameplay issues that don't settle well with me. In my head, SFZ3 has always been a more scrubby, dumbed down, for the masses type of game. Does anyone else feel this way? There are just too many things that are in SFZ2/SFZ2' that I like better.
Reasons Why I'd Rather Play SFZ2:
1) No Insta-Juggles... I don't know how many rounds I've won against my roommates where I would just hit them in the air with two or three Fierce or Roundhouse attacks, especially if they tried to Flip/2P Recover from it.
2) Varying Falling Rolls: Unless I'm mistaken, there seems to be only one distance for the Roll/2K Recovery in SFZ3 whereas, in SFZ2, the distance you traveled was determined by the Strength of the Punch Button used for the input while falling.
3) Multiple Zero/Alpha Counters: Instead of there being just one Universal Counter that could miss, we were given Two, one for High/Mid Attacks and one for Mid/Low Attacks. For sticklers about Guard Crush, there was also no penalty for using Counters. It should be noted that SFZ2 only used 1 Bar for them whereas SFZ2' used 1.5, similar to SFZ3.
4) Character Specific Bosses and Hidden Mini-Bosses: I know that SFZ3 has Character Specific Mini-Bosses that you always fight, but somehow it's just not the same to me as the appeal of a Hidden One that has some requirements behind it... Anyhow, the bigger issue is that everyone in SFZ3 fights against Vega/Bison instead of having their own boss/story/whatever. It seems they had to tie everything into one entwined plot that was going to lead into/re-establish the SF2 plot.
5) You Don't Start With a Full Super Bar: I guess it's not that big of a deal, but I've seen far too many first rounds that became Superfests... and they're spoony. I don't know if that's the right description, but I like the word spoony right now, so I'm going to use it. ;D
That's all I can remember for right now, but, on the flip side, SFZ3 does have fun ISMs to play around with and, as stated before, the great girth in characters is nice... Anyhow, I go play now and if anyone has anything they want to discuss or add about SFZ Gameplay, go right ahead. I leave you with this...
CHAIN COMBOS HAVE NO PLACE IN STREET FIGHTER... BEGONE!!!
"You should get to know me better no one's every what they seem..."
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| Iron D 2031th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
 
| "And now for a different opinion..." , posted Fri 27 Sep 16:07
Well, Alpha 3 is not only my favorite fighting game ever (tied with Soul Calibur) but, needless to say, it's my favorite SF as well.
I love the way that counters are done in this game. The way that a character will be popped up in the air when countered by a fierce attack was always a cool idea in my book.
And the juggle system was much improved in my opinion.
I also like the more refined Variable Combos in Alpha 3 more than the insane Custom Combos of Alpha 2.
On the bosses, I do prefer each character having their own last boss. That was always a rockin' idea, but I can settle for each character having their own mid and pre-boss (pre-boss being the boss that comes before the last boss). Plus, I liked having mid-bosses be there automatically instead of always having to earn them.
And then there's the little things. Like each of the Ansatsuken characters (including Dan, although he's not an Ansatsu character) having slight variations in their fighting stances, and finally being able to do both Sakura and Dan's qcb+k in the air. I swear that I could not play as either character without these moves being done in the air again (not that they were all that useful, just really fun to do). And nothing beats the feeling of fierce tiger uppercutting your opponent in the corner, and then juggling them with a second tiger uppercut! BOOYAKA!
I would mention Alpha 3's vastly superior cast of characters, but that's been done already.
Useless but true fact: Australian soldiers used "We're Off to See the Wizard" as a marching song during WWII.
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| Luisinan
54th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(5):The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay" , posted Sat 28 Sep 02:19
quote:
Zero 2: better music, better endings, better plot, better art, and the addition of Gen/Rolento/Sakura was more interesting then just digging up the old SF2 characters and inserting them into Alpha 3 as filler.
On a sidenote, why has alpha counters never been made useful by capcom? its ridiculous that a move that does such petty damage takes up a whole lifebar of your supermeter, why even bother putting them in the game? I'd rather take my chances trying a level 1 super (sometimes the block damage for some supers may do more then the Alpha counter lol)
I completely agree on the first part, but not the second. Well at least in SFZ2, alpha counters were to powerful. I mean, how fair is it that you can get in a free hit for being a turtler. I don't think that ACs are CHEAP, just a little too strong then they should be. I don't care if they take a level of super meter. Some characters can build meter real fast which means they can get a lot of free hits for just turtling. Geeze.
Aside from that, yes, I agree SFZ3 is garbage. And CCs are also garbage. The funny thing is that SFZ3 is the most widely ported SF game in existence. How sad is that. And SF3-3S has only been ported to one system. Geeze, life is not fair.
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| VariantX
112th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(6):The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay" , posted Sat 28 Sep 02:24
quote:
Zero 2: better music, better endings, better plot, better art, and the addition of Gen/Rolento/Sakura was more interesting then just digging up the old SF2 characters and inserting them into Alpha 3 as filler.
On a sidenote, why has alpha counters never been made useful by capcom? its ridiculous that a move that does such petty damage takes up a whole lifebar of your supermeter, why even bother putting them in the game? I'd rather take my chances trying a level 1 super (sometimes the block damage for some supers may do more then the Alpha counter lol)
I completely agree on the first part, but not the second. Well at least in SFZ2, alpha counters were to powerful. I mean, how fair is it that you can get in a free hit for being a turtler. I don't think that ACs are CHEAP, just a little too strong then they should be. I don't care if they take a level of super meter. Some characters can build meter real fast which means they can get a lot of free hits for just turtling. Geeze.
Aside from that, yes, I agree SFZ3 is garbage. And CCs are also garbage. The funny thing is that SFZ3 is the most widely ported SF game in existence. How sad is that. And SF3-3S has only been ported to one system. Geeze, life is not fair.
Well, at the time the only system that could handle Sf3-3s without defeating the purpose of capcom putting in all that animation in the first place was the dc. And by then it was no longer profitable to port any more of which they were makin cvs2.
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| Puar 389th Post
Silver Customer
| ":The Street Fighter Zero Ga, I mean, Music..." , posted Sat 28 Sep 05:53
quote:
Zero 2: better music...
Ahhh! I forgot to mention this... Is it just me or does the music in SFZ3 kind of, well, sound all the same, more or less. Yes, I can distinguish between character themes, but they're, like, all the same sounds, y'know? The music in SFZ2 just seems a bit more personalized to me... There are some characters in SFZ3 with jumping, techno-electronica tunes that have no business jamming to that music. ;D
"You should get to know me better no one's every what they seem..."
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| Maou
7th Post
New Customer
| "Re(1)::The Street Fighter Zero Ga, I mean, Mu" , posted Sun 29 Sep 17:26
Hmm, the funny thing about Zero 3 is that I know there are several things that shined in Zero 2 that have since been damaged, yet I still play it for its: 1. superior roster 2. INFINITELY superior home conversion (World Tour and Dramatic are beauty) 3. music
I miss some of the peppy tunes of Zero 2 (Sakura's, Birdie's, and Ryu's stand out), but a lot of Zero 2 music is so mellow on these very, very distant-sounding trumpets that I never could hum the stuff. Zero 3 has some clunkers, but every time the theme for Ryu or Gouki starts up, I'm in a good mood.
A big hit that no one comments much on is the lack of STAGE SELECT in Zero 3. That's a blunder that long made Tekken 3 exasperating [note: even if you only choose Law once, his stage will never never never go away]. Stage select is so simple, yet really vital to keep your game going if you're playing with friends for hours and don't have a 10 plus roster of characters you've mastered.
Neutered Zero Counters: oh, come on! Seperating the two counters into the two isms is unbearable...they're limited enough without cutting their number in half. I have no beef really about seperating Original and Super Combos, but counters must do more than this!
I really, really liked the normal attacks that change based on range, which I don't think has been around for a while (Super SF 2? Or am I mistaken?). Changing back to one final boss seems like a step in the wrong direction, though. And if you look through a mook and see Vega's death in 35 different ways, it's funny (but dumb). How many ways can YOU say "NOOOO! Impossible!"? ^_____^
Maou
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| Time Mage 870th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(3):The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay" , posted Mon 30 Sep 02:56
I prefer A3 over A2 because of it's completeness. I mean, A2 has better music, some backgrounds are better, the art is better and the gameplay is more "solid", but...
A3 has a LOT of characters, and among them is Vega/Balrog, my favourite. It also has more variety in the gameplay, due to the different ISM's, and some interesting features added like the guard crush bar and the counters. I know that counters can often lead to a endless juggle game, but I still like them. They provide more benefits.
Gatotsu Zeroshiki!
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| Ultima 287th Post
Copper Customer
| "Re(1):The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay " , posted Mon 30 Sep 06:49
> There are just too many things that are in SFZ2/SFZ2' that I like better.
I feel the exact opposite. THere are too many things about A2 that I hate as compared to A3.
> 1) No Insta-Juggles... I don't know how many rounds I've won against my roommates where I would just hit them in the air with two or three Fierce or Roundhouse attacks, especially if they tried to Flip/2P Recover from it.
This is one of the things I really liked about A3. There were many MANY things I thought should have comboed in A2 that didn't. I find the notion of specific moves that juggle to quite arbitrary and nonsensical. However, SFZ3 does have dumb isues like anti-air jabs that knock you straight up into the air instead of knocking you far away. And yes, you can get a lot of mileage out of just walking under your opponent and hitting fierce, but I should note that it doesn't work too well against good players.
> 2) Varying Falling Rolls: Unless I'm mistaken, there seems to be only one distance for the Roll/2K Recovery in SFZ3 whereas, in SFZ2, the distance you traveled was determined by the Strength of the Punch Button used for the input while falling.
Removal of variable recovery rolls was a *good* thing because there was almost never ever ever any reason not to do a Jab roll when knocked down. It was practically zero risk and totally destroyed any kind wake-up game. A fixed roll that goes a distance potentially puts you right back in range to be swept, so you have to decide if doing that will be better than just staying on the ground.
> 3) Multiple Zero/Alpha Counters: Instead of there being just one Universal Counter that could miss, we were given Two, one for High/Mid Attacks and one for Mid/Low Attacks. For sticklers about Guard Crush, there was also no penalty for using Counters. It should be noted that SFZ2 only used 1 Bar for them whereas SFZ2' used 1.5, similar to SFZ3.
And it should be noted that the ACs in both were retardedly powerful, though somewhat less so in Z2' since they cost more meter. They overbalanced the ACs in Z3, but that's okay, since that made them what they're meant to be - a last ditch effort to get someone off your back, not a turtle weapon (have you ever fought against a Chun-Li or Ken in Z2 who's ahead on life and they're just sitting there will full meter? UGH).
> 4) Character Specific Bosses and Hidden Mini-Bosses: I know that SFZ3 has Character Specific Mini-Bosses that you always fight, but somehow it's just not the same to me as the appeal of a Hidden One that has some requirements behind it...
Wow. It's been so long that I forgot the midbosses were hidden in Z2. Anyway, I don't care about these. I'd rather the Z3 way where I don't have to hunt for some simple dilogue.
> Anyhow, the bigger issue is that everyone in SFZ3 fights against Vega/Bison instead of having their own boss/story/whatever. It seems they had to tie everything into one entwined plot that was going to lead into/re-establish the SF2 plot.
Uhm yeah, that was the idea. So what?
> 5) You Don't Start With a Full Super Bar: I guess it's not that big of a deal, but I've seen far too many first rounds that became Superfests... and they're spoony.
"Superfests"? That only applies to V-ism, and not even all V-characters at that. Meter is pretty hard to come by in A3, *especially* when compared to A2, where all folks like Ken had to do was 3 or 4 jump back Hks and BAM he has another Level.
Granted, Z3 isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. By far the worst thing about Z3 is the godawful hit detection. I think if Z3 had Z2's hit detection, more people would be hail it as the best ever, even with the free juggling. I think the ideal thing about be Z3 + Z2's hit detection + 3S's juggle system.
> CHAIN COMBOS HAVE NO PLACE IN STREET FIGHTER... BEGONE!!!
Eh. Limited chains (a la SF3) are okay to me. And I like the idea of a few characters being able to chain (like Gen, and Guy to a much much lesser extent).
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| Luisinan
56th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay" , posted Mon 30 Sep 20:21
WRONG! ;) 3S has the best juggle system and hit detection. I still can't believe people like A3. The A3 juggle system is interesting but it is TOO OPEN and TOO SIMPLE. The A2 juggle system is too restrictve. The 3S juggle system is almost perfect- its still a little bit TOO FLEXIBLE, but its not completely abusive (a few times it can be abusive, but the really nasty combos take skill to do. As opposed to some CCs and VCs.)
And yes A3 had the worst hit detection of all post ST games. Everything in that darn game was too floaty and attacks would "come out weird." A1 and A2 were too "syrupy," that is, jumping and attacking had a more "solid" feel. In A2, I can predict the outcome of two two attacks, that is which stuffs the other attack before the animation is completed. In A3, its random to me and things that should stuff, don't stuff, and things that should hit, don't hit. IT IS AWEFUL! Not only that, but throwing sucks in A3.
3S is near perfection, aside from some balancing issues and the whole parrying thing (its good but its bad). A2 is right next to 3S. A3 is a nightmare. But if you like it, more power to you. I still can't understand why.
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| Iron D 2035th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(5):The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay" , posted Wed 2 Oct 15:01
quote:
and the addition of Gen/Rolento/Sakura was more interesting then just digging up the old SF2 characters and inserting them into Alpha 3 as filler.
Whoah, there. Let's examine this statment a bit. Alpha 2 had three new characters (coming from a gameplay perspective, as in no other character that played like them was seen before): Sakura, Rolento, and Gen. Alpha 3 had the same amount. 3 characters: Cody, Karin, and Mika. And that's if you don't count Juni and Juli.
I just LOVE Alpha 3 to death, and I love it much more than Alpha 2.
Alpha 3 has normals than vary on the distance from your opponent, which Alpha 2 had very little of.
I personally prefer Alpha 3's music. Alpha 2's was mostly remixes of Alpha 1's themes, all of which were inferior to the originals. IMO, the order of the Alpha series quality of music, going best to worst, is Alpha 3, Alhpa 1, and Alpha 2. Now I'm not saying that Alhpa 2's music is bad at all. It's actually quite good, but just not as good as the other 2.
And c'mon people! ISMS! There's few things cooler than having multiple types of characters to use. I mean, look at the coolness of Cody's X-ism super, or X-ism Chun-li's charge b,f+p which was never seen in any other game but Alpha 3!
And many things that were broken in Alpha 2 were fixed in Alpha 3. One example, is Guy's qcf=p,p throw. In Alpha 2, if your opponent was in the corner, it was impossible to get the throw to connect, even if the opponent was standing. That was fixed in Alpha 3. And what about Bison's Super Psycho Crusher? In Alpha 2, if you tried to use it as an anti-air, the opponent would usually be hit by two hits before being knocked too far away to be hit, and the rest of the move would just pass over your opponent as they hit the ground. In Alpha 3, it was actually a reliable anti-air and would properly juggle your opponent for most of the move.
Bah, I'm babbling! Heh, this is a very fun and interesting conversation though!
Useless but true fact: Australian soldiers used "We're Off to See the Wizard" as a marching song during WWII.
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| Luisinan
58th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay" , posted Wed 2 Oct 21:16
If you have incredibly poor or random or incomprehensible hit detection in a fighting game, you are stuck with a confusing, frustrating game.
I'm exagerrating a little bit with A3 and its bad hit detection. But every SF game has a hit detection scheme that is similar to one another and that is very predictable, very reliable and very reassuring. EXCECPT SFZ3. Its like this went out the window. Its not HORRIBLE to the max, the game is certainly playable, people hold tournies with the game, and the darn game is on like 4 different consoles (if you include the GBA). I just can't stand the hit detection issue and the floaty juggle system.
As for asthetics, SFZ2 ROCKS SFZ3 so badly in this department. The music, the art direction, the intro, is all better in SFZ2. The only thing non-gameplay related that is better in SFZ3 is the numerous special intros, and a bit of the dialog between mid bosses. The endings in SFZ3 is also horrible too. I hate SFZ3 artwork.
But to each his own. People who like variety might like SFZ3 cause its larger cast, but yeah, like someone else pointed out, SFZ3 only had 3 new characters. Now lets compare the new 3 in SFZ3 with the new 3 in SFZ2
SFZ2- Sakura, Rolento, Gen
SFZ3- R.Mika, Cody, Karin
Sakura = Karin
Gen > R.Mika
Rolento > Cody
SFZ2 had better newer characters folks. R.Mika and Cody are not bad or awful characters, they just don't have anything very interesting. They are unique, but Gen and Rolento are just more interesting and more unique.
Anyway, whatever!
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| TiamatRoar
237th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(3):The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay" , posted Wed 2 Oct 22:03
There's no denying that she isn't unique, but I always did enjoy learning and playing as Juni a lot. Don't think there's a character in any other Street Fighter game that has a teleport, a command throw, a push block, a dive kick, a hooligan combination move, an advancing attack (spiral arrow), an overhead, an anti-air attack, and a fast-as-lightning super move projectile all in one.
Now if only they let you use her heal move without having to have Juli nearby. But eh, even without it, it's a huge as heck repertoire.
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| ZamIAm 684th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "J&J" , posted Wed 2 Oct 22:27
quote:
There's no denying that she isn't unique, but I always did enjoy learning and playing as Juni a lot. Don't think there's a character in any other Street Fighter game that has a teleport, a command throw, a push block, a dive kick, a hooligan combination move, an advancing attack (spiral arrow), an overhead, an anti-air attack, and a fast-as-lightning super move projectile all in one.
Now if only they let you use her heal move without having to have Juli nearby. But eh, even without it, it's a huge as heck repertoire.
Oh yes, Juni owns you all. Sadly, the learning curve normally has me using Juli. This reminds me that I need to update their guides...
Cammy is British. Jon Talbain is British. Billy Cane is British.
Spice Girls are British...
Tinky Winky is British...
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| Luisinan
61th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Why Akuma will always be #1" , posted Fri 4 Oct 19:13
quote:
Randomly, of all the things to be missing in Zero 3 what with more features packed in than I've ever seen, there's the Shin Gouki problem. I rambled on once before, but WHERE is the "Metsu" (Destruction) that's supposed to burn over his head at the match start?!! You have Dark Ryu and Gouki go at it, odd little Dan and Sakura bits, Ryu and Ken wrestling, and all kinds of other weird things at the round start, but no burning kanji of "I'm gonna KILL you!!" portent! Sniff....
Maou
(I'm sure -someone- has to have missed that!)
Capcom has never really done anything special with Shin Gouki. He's just colored in brighter colors and has the metsu symbol shining over his head when he taunts. I wasn't surprised by the fact that he didn't have a special intro. I was surprised Ryu versus Evil Ryu and Evil Ryu versus Akuma had intros.
Shin Akuma in Double Impact was cool. But I think Shin Akuma in ST was the coolest Akuma ever. And that was his first appearance. Who the heck could of expected seeing that guy kill Bison in front of you and then ask you to fight. C'mon, that had NEVER been done before in a video game. And as far as I know, Akuma is the only character in a fighting game that does that.
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| Puar 399th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(4):The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay" , posted Sat 5 Oct 18:55
quote:
There's no denying that she isn't unique, but I always did enjoy learning and playing as Juni a lot. Don't think there's a character in any other Street Fighter game that has a teleport, a command throw, a push block, a dive kick, a hooligan combination move, an advancing attack (spiral arrow), an overhead, an anti-air attack, and a fast-as-lightning super move projectile all in one.
Now if only they let you use her heal move without having to have Juli nearby. But eh, even without it, it's a huge as heck repertoire.
Juni and Juli aren't playable in the arcade versions at all, correct?
"You should get to know me better no one's every what they seem..."
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| TiamatRoar
249th Post
Frequent Customer
| "Re(5):The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay" , posted Sat 5 Oct 22:47
quote:
Juni and Juli aren't playable in the arcade versions at all, correct?
They're playable with a code. IE, you hold the cursor on a certain character for 5 seconds, then choose another character in a specific manner, then hold start as you choose that character and your character will be Juni, Juli, or Balrog depending on the code you did (I don't recall the exact code, though). Heard that Juni was actually tournament viable (IE, a decently high enough tier to be competitive), though she's rare to see since she's so hard to learn to use. You could also get Juni, Juli, or Balrog through random select, I believe.
They didn't have any storyline when you played as them, though. (they got Bison's ending and Bison would appear in the mid-boss matches and do his dialogue for them).
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"Re(2):The Street Fighter Zero/Alpha Gameplay" 
L 
MESSATSU 
