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Mosquiton

484th Post

Gold Customer

"Perfect Dark's new look..." , posted Thu 26 Sep 14:00:

Here's the article on GameSpot...

I think the picture link here doesn't work, so try here.

Personally, I'm not too happy. Accepting a cel-shaded Zelda wasn't very hard to do. The new FFT look wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but I haven't once let it dampen my enthusiasm. But this... to go from the completely realistic look of Perfect Dark and Goldeneye to a completely stylized look is just jarring. I'd hoped that the Rare teaser trailer wasn't representative of the actual game...

Are they trying to do this to set it apart from Halo? Wanting to broaden the audience? What the hell are they thinking?

This is not quite what I was looking forward to... I'm getting really tired of characters looking like this... that faux-anime style just doesn't do it for me.

A lot of Zelda paralells though. Last E3 they showed off a very realistic render... and now the dramatic change. Can't blame the GameCube for this one though. :P

I just hope it doesn't affect the way the game feels, it just doesn't seem as serious... maybe I just need to recover from the shock.

/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Thu 26 Sep 16:22]

Replies:

MrWhitefolks
0th Post

New Customer

"holy bojesus!" , posted Thu 26 Sep 14:33

dayam! rare finally got some artists that dont think women should look like candy kong or whatever(dont believe me? look at all the chicks in KI2, they all have that overbearing upper lip that looks like a monkey). i'll take this over the over sleek dyke lookin version they had on the n64 anyday.

w00t.

MrWhitefolks

p.s...besides, it's how the game plays that matters. if they took it from a fps and turned it into rainbow six, it'd be gay...but if they just change the look and keep the whole style of play and atmosphere similar, i'm all about it.

Innovating combos you havent even thought of...

Hungrywolf

1551th Post

Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member

"Re(1):Perfect Dark's new look..." , posted Thu 26 Sep 18:40

quote:
Here's the article on GameSpot...

I think the picture link here doesn't work, so try here.

Personally, I'm not too happy. Accepting a cel-shaded Zelda wasn't very hard to do. The new FFT look wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but I haven't once let it dampen my enthusiasm. But this... to go from the completely realistic look of Perfect Dark and Goldeneye to a completely stylized look is just jarring. I'd hoped that the Rare teaser trailer wasn't representative of the actual game...

Are they trying to do this to set it apart from Halo? Wanting to broaden the audience? What the hell are they thinking?

This is not quite what I was looking forward to... I'm getting really tired of characters looking like this... that faux-anime style just doesn't do it for me.

A lot of Zelda paralells though. Last E3 they showed off a very realistic render... and now the dramatic change. Can't blame the GameCube for this one though. :P

I just hope it doesn't affect the way the game feels, it just doesn't seem as serious... maybe I just need to recover from the shock.

First off, Mr. Whitefolks, I liked the look of the original Perfect Dark. Secondly, I agree with Mosquiton. Zelda didn't start with a realistic look, so the cel-shading of it doesn't bother me, but Pefect Dark started as a reealistic FPS. Plus, Zelda isn't FPS, so the cel-shading also doesn't bother me because of the style of the game. The realistic render they showed earlier for Perfect Dark Zero was awesome, plus it really won't seems like Perfect Dark if it is cel-shaded, I hope it's a joke. Oh well, I wasn't gonna get to play it anyway, since it'll be on X-box. I think it may be to keep it separate from Halo. I don't think it would've turned out like that on GCN, but oh well, that's cool. It may still be ok, but the look will make the game feel weird. Is it even gonna stay FPS?

"Someday we'll find it

the rainbow connection..." -Kermit

The Muppet Movie
Hungry Like the Wolf

Satoshi_Miwa

1488th Post

Red Carpet Executive Member

"Re(1):Perfect Dark's new look..." , posted Thu 26 Sep 19:23

While I like the anime styled visuals of the new RPG, I think changing Perfect Dark to it is a bad move. The first visual style worked perfectly for the game, and changing it doesn't really work for me...

BTW Anime style graphics just aren't cute style that we mostly see here. Lot's of serious designs...(Which would work well for Perfect Dark...)

Dr Baghead

1626th Post

Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member

"Re(1):Perfect Dark's new look..." , posted Thu 26 Sep 20:01

quote:
Here's the article on GameSpot...

I think the picture link here doesn't work, so try here.

Personally, I'm not too happy. Accepting a cel-shaded Zelda wasn't very hard to do. The new FFT look wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but I haven't once let it dampen my enthusiasm. But this... to go from the completely realistic look of Perfect Dark and Goldeneye to a completely stylized look is just jarring. I'd hoped that the Rare teaser trailer wasn't representative of the actual game...

Are they trying to do this to set it apart from Halo? Wanting to broaden the audience? What the hell are they thinking?

This is not quite what I was looking forward to... I'm getting really tired of characters looking like this... that faux-anime style just doesn't do it for me.

A lot of Zelda paralells though. Last E3 they showed off a very realistic render... and now the dramatic change. Can't blame the GameCube for this one though. :P

I just hope it doesn't affect the way the game feels, it just doesn't seem as serious... maybe I just need to recover from the shock.

She looks sort of ummm... I'd say "silly" but that doesn't quit work... I mean not bad, but unless this game is some kind of light-hearted 60's spoof the design doesn't work...

two random thoughts:
1-Wouldn't it be great if Rare switched all their games like this? So K.I.3 had silly characters, while future Banjo and Conker games had photo-realistic animals?

2-I think this proves loosing Rare isn't going to hurt the GCN to anyone dumb enough to think Goldeneye saved the N64 from bankrupting Nintendo.

Mosquiton

484th Post

Gold Customer

"Re(2):Perfect Dark's new look..." , posted Thu 26 Sep 20:38

quote:

BTW Anime style graphics just aren't cute style that we mostly see here. Lot's of serious designs...(Which would work well for Perfect Dark...)

Perfectly aware of that. If it looked a bit more "serious" like Ice Blade or something then hey, that's cool with me. It just doesn't strike me as being as cool.

/ / /

TiamatRoar
216th Post

Frequent Customer

"Re(1):Perfect Dark's new look..." , posted Thu 26 Sep 21:40

Cripes. I think she's a bit too SD for my tastes.

Dragon-warrior

521th Post

New Red Carpet Member

"Re(2):Perfect Dark's new look..." , posted Thu 26 Sep 22:29

well I prefear the N64 look but this is not that bad you know , we won't see her face anyway :P

"Got Milk?"
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is gone for now :( .

sabo10
88th Post

Occasional Customer

"whats wrong" , posted Thu 26 Sep 22:39:

They need to fix the pupils

add an opacity map for the hair (esp bangs)

lighten up lipstick

use polygons w/ opacity map for eyelashes

It would look pretty good then.

http://www.geocities.co.jp/WallStreet/7482 /

[this message was edited by sabo10 on Thu 26 Sep 22:40]

MrWhitefolks
0th Post

New Customer

"realistic fps = rainbow six ya tard. :)" , posted Fri 27 Sep 00:55

quote:

First off, Mr. Whitefolks, I liked the look of the original Perfect Dark. Secondly, I agree with Mosquiton. Zelda didn't start with a realistic look, so the cel-shading of it doesn't bother me, but Pefect Dark started as a reealistic FPS....

hold on...realistic? wtf?
lazer guns and briefcase weapons? cmon now.

the only thing that has majoritly changed is the appearance of the main character and the way she is "built" in game(cg/or cell? who cares). you dont even get to view her for the majority of the game due to it being a FPS anyhoo.

personally, i like the new look. alot more stylized and attractive than the short hair lara croft meets bladerunner look she had goin on in the previous game.

peace

MrWhitefolks

Innovating combos you havent even thought of...

Gojira

627th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member

"Re(1):Perfect Dark's new look..." , posted Fri 27 Sep 01:10

I'm sorry but if you looked at that old N64 Joanna Dark character design render and thought "wow that's so realistic" I've got some land I'd like to sell you.

The characters looked the way they did in the N64 one because if they were any more complex the game would have run at 3 FPS instead of the silky-smooth 8 FPS it screamed along at.

GSPX progress: 36% done! New build coming: October 2002

TiamatRoar
219th Post

Frequent Customer

"Re(1):realistic fps = rainbow six ya tard. :)" , posted Fri 27 Sep 06:12

*glance at pic in his own sig*

I'd say she's a Fevrier rip-off!

...nah, I wasn't being serious :P

Hungrywolf

1555th Post

Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member

"Re(2):Perfect Dark's new look..." , posted Fri 27 Sep 07:26

quote:
I'm sorry but if you looked at that old N64 Joanna Dark character design render and thought "wow that's so realistic" I've got some land I'd like to sell you.

The characters looked the way they did in the N64 one because if they were any more complex the game would have run at 3 FPS instead of the silky-smooth 8 FPS it screamed along at.

By realistic, I don't think they or me meant it looked real, and some of us were also talking about the render for Perfect Dark Zero that had been shown earlier (when it was planned for GCN). And its not just the way she looks, I mean, those pictures look good, but if the whole game is cel-shaded or looks like that, I wouldn't like it compared to the way the original looked. It'd be too different.

"Someday we'll find it

the rainbow connection..." -Kermit

The Muppet Movie
Hungry Like the Wolf

Time Mage

862th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member++

"Re(1):realistic fps = rainbow six ya tard. :)" , posted Fri 27 Sep 08:32

Well, I agree with MrWhitefolks, her new design is great, way better than the original in my opinion, even when I ~~hate~~ don't like Microsoft, I can distinguish an improovement when i see it.
Why had Joanna short hair in the N64 version? Just because it was easier to handle, but this design is better (and sexier, yeah).

Gatotsu Zeroshiki!

Mosquiton

485th Post

Gold Customer

"what's REAL? what's TRUE?" , posted Fri 27 Sep 10:17

I meant realistic in terms of the graphic style's fidelity to real life; In regard to body proportion, facial features, etc., I'd say that Perfect Dark and Goldeneye took realistic approaches. For instance, digitized photos were scanned onto the heads of the characters. I didn't say it was PHOTOREALISTIC and the graphics were without flaw.

Why people are so crazy about the word "realistic" I'll never know. Certain aspects of anything can be realistic while others may not.

For instance, you could be piloting an unrealistic vehicle (say a giant mech) in a game that used realistic physics (gravity, momentum, inertia are properly modeled). The game could use an realistic damage model (as in it could depict the materials represented deforming in a believable way) to estimate damage that might be done with an unrealistic weapon like a beam cannon.

If it's plausible in reality, i'd say it's fairly realistic. And about that land you'd like to sell me, I've no interest in a sand box. :P

/ / /

Dr Baghead

1629th Post

Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member

"Re(2):realistic fps = rainbow six ya tard. :)" , posted Fri 27 Sep 12:39

quote:
*glance at pic in his own sig*

I'd say she's a Fevrier rip-off!

No! She's a rip-ff of the from Mom in "the Adventures of Jimmy Neutron"... which would also make her look like every other TV mom out there with that 'bell' shaped hair...

MrWhitefolks
0th Post

New Customer

"lets get down to brass tax about this..." , posted Fri 27 Sep 14:20

see, if we cut thru all the artistic bullsh*t and opinionated crap about what so and so likes from the old game, and hates about the new game, etc...

we'll get to the main problem here. nintendo freaks are just really bitter about their fav company losing rare to the big bad evil microsoft and, in turn, use any excuse to just totally deface and flame anything rare does from here on out.

MrWhitefolks

p.s...that was a general statement, not directed at anyone(if you took it personally, then suck it up p*ssy. ^_^)in paticular.

Innovating combos you havent even thought of...

Mosquiton

493th Post

Gold Customer

"I refuse to pay the brass tax," , posted Fri 27 Sep 15:41:

quote:

we'll get to the main problem here. nintendo freaks are just really bitter about their fav company losing rare to the big bad evil microsoft and, in turn, use any excuse to just totally deface and flame anything rare does from here on out.

I don't think anyone here is trying to deface and/or flame Rare. Nor is anybody being a "Nintendo Freak". I just started this topic to see how people felt about the very noticeable change. Some people like it, some people don't. We're all gamers here, and entitled to our opinion.

The main problem here might be that you're going crazy-defensive because a few people don't agree with you. Just chill, and be happy. Nobody's saying you're wrong.

And hey, I didn't say I won't go near the game or anything. I'm definitely going to try the game out.

That the game will probably use Xbox Live for online play is certainly cool. Playing against overwhelming numbers of high-level bots with two players sure was fun though.

random note - upon closer inspection I see that Joanna's nipples are easily visible... guess I can't complain there.

/ / /

[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Fri 27 Sep 15:44]

Kitsune413
189th Post

Regular Customer

"Re(3):realistic fps = rainbow six ya tard. :)" , posted Fri 27 Sep 16:04

quote:
*glance at pic in his own sig*

I'd say she's a Fevrier rip-off!

No! She's a rip-ff of the from Mom in "the Adventures of Jimmy Neutron"... which would also make her look like every other TV mom out there with that 'bell' shaped hair...

I personally don't like the new style... I also personally didn't like the original perfect dark. =P

I can't say it doesn't make sense though. If you think about it, MS may be anticipating fans of the previous Goldeneye and Perfect Dark games wanting to buy an Xbox to follow the series... In which case, they already have a mature first person shooter (Halo) but giving Perfect Dark a cuter, more childish appeal theoretically would be used to hook nintendo users.

of course thats all insane speculation and I don't know anything, but they've already got their mature first person shooter on the xbox anyways. heh. We'll see.

Those pictures are from the Gamecube Development kit back when Perfect Dark was supposed to be on the gamecube. It doesn't look like they've changed them much. They're also not up to Xbox standards, I'd like to see a bit more work done on them.

Gojira

629th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member

"Re(1):what's REAL? what's TRUE?" , posted Fri 27 Sep 16:52

quote:
I meant realistic in terms of the graphic style's fidelity to real life; In regard to body proportion, facial features, etc., I'd say that Perfect Dark and Goldeneye took realistic approaches. For instance, digitized photos were scanned onto the heads of the characters. I didn't say it was PHOTOREALISTIC and the graphics were without flaw.

Nor did I, but I still say the original N64 version did not have a realistic or well-proportioned character design. Rare's human characters have always failed in realistic proportions and end up having bad cartoon-like heads. I'm sure that's why they stopped trying to be "realistic" after Perfect Dark, and instead focused on monkeys and bears and foxes and dinosaurs. So now that they are doing PD again, they're using a non-pretentious cartoon style and IMHO it works out better for them.

GSPX progress: 36% done! New build coming: October 2002

Mosquiton

494th Post

Gold Customer

"Re(2):what's REAL? what's TRUE?" , posted Fri 27 Sep 21:02

quote:

I'm sure that's why they stopped trying to be "realistic" after Perfect Dark

So you admit that they were going for realism. That's all I'm trying to say. I'm willing to give the game a chance, and hope the new style grows on me.

This is my last post in the thread, it's been fun. Good luck rare.

/ / /

leon
0th Post

New Customer

"Re(3):what's REAL? what's TRUE?" , posted Sat 28 Sep 13:19

Looks good.

Well, as long as they retain the feel of the first game, I'll be happy.

deoch
115th Post

Regular Customer

"Re(4):what's REAL? what's TRUE?" , posted Sat 28 Sep 14:35

I personally think the new Perfect Dark design looks pretty bad. Oh well.

Rid Hershel

3579th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(5):what's REAL? what's TRUE?" , posted Sat 28 Sep 16:29

Joanna Dark v2.0

-kawaiiness factor up +3-
-resemblance to Cutey Honey installed-
-bad 3d model that scared people from magazine covers uninstalled-

Rid likes!

Burning Ranger

266th Post

Copper Customer

"Influenced by Anime because..." , posted Sat 28 Sep 23:47

Microsoft is desperately trying to get some market share in Japan. Because of this, I think MS is trying to make the lead character more "Anime-esque," something that will go over better in Japan. But then, those are my thoughts.

"Never underestimate the predictabilty of stupidity." -Vinnie Jones from SNATCH

Dr Baghead

1640th Post

Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member

"Re(1):Influenced by Anime because..." , posted Sun 29 Sep 13:00

quote:
Microsoft is desperately trying to get some market share in Japan. Because of this, I think MS is trying to make the lead character more "Anime-esque," something that will go over better in Japan. But then, those are my thoughts.

It's almost sad how much the term "anime" is thrown around these days.

Since most people consider "anime" as being Japanese art... how can a European company funded by an American one make Japanese art?

nothing againist your post Burning Ranger, I'm just saying it's going to be real stupid from a logic stand point if Rare or Microsoft sells PD:Zero as an "Anime FPS Adventure" or something like that...

Rid Hershel

3585th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(2):Influenced by Anime because..." , posted Sun 29 Sep 13:04

quote:
Microsoft is desperately trying to get some market share in Japan. Because of this, I think MS is trying to make the lead character more "Anime-esque," something that will go over better in Japan. But then, those are my thoughts.

It's almost sad how much the term "anime" is thrown around these days.

Since most people consider "anime" as being Japanese art... how can a European company funded by an American one make Japanese art?

nothing againist your post Burning Ranger, I'm just saying it's going to be real stupid from a logic stand point if Rare or Microsoft sells PD:Zero as an "Anime FPS Adventure" or something like that...

Then again, remember what Marvel Comics did some months ago...

TiamatRoar
227th Post

Frequent Customer

"Re(3):Influenced by Anime because..." , posted Sun 29 Sep 13:18

And then there's also the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles in Japan. Fear Bishoujo April!

Omar
83th Post

Occasional Customer

"Re(4):realistic fps = rainbow six ya tard. :)" , posted Sun 29 Sep 22:58

quote:

I can't say it doesn't make sense though. If you think about it, MS may be anticipating fans of the previous Goldeneye and Perfect Dark games wanting to buy an Xbox to follow the series... In which case, they already have a mature first person shooter (Halo) but giving Perfect Dark a cuter, more childish appeal theoretically would be used to hook nintendo users.

of course thats all insane speculation and I don't know anything, but they've already got their mature first person shooter on the xbox anyways.

Or, maybe now that Rare is no longer with Nintendo they don't have to create "realistic mature" characters to show that Nintendo wants the older demographic, since apparently MS already have it.

That's my piece of insane speculation, and it's not guaranteed to compute or make any sense at all. ;)

Anyway...I like the anime-ish design. I already have it as a wallpaper in Windows.
I do wonder how the enemy will look.

It occurs to me that an awful lot of trouble in Gotham City could have been averted a long time ago if Batman had just ripped the Joker's nipples off.

A man with the nipples ripped off him does not make the same mistakes twice.

I mean crime in Gotham City doesn't exactly seem to be affected by a man dressed as a bat flapping around the place. But no-one disobeys a man wearing a necklace of human nipples.

"I'm Batman" isn't cutting it in the striking-fear-into-their-hearts stakes. But "I'm Batman -- and I'm here for your nipples" is an entirely different proposition.
-- Warren Ellis

Omar
84th Post

Occasional Customer

"Re(1):lets get down to brass tax about this.." , posted Sun 29 Sep 23:02

quote:

we'll get to the main problem here. nintendo freaks are just really bitter about their fav company losing rare to the big bad evil microsoft and, in turn, use any excuse to just totally deface and flame anything rare does from here on out.

I have seen that happen in other forums, but luckly not here.

Juan

2459th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(5):realistic fps = rainbow six ya tard. :)" , posted Sun 29 Sep 23:04

Those are good points. The new look is good, you cant really judge the content just because the character doesnt look like a manly man game.

Just look at the game Fear Effect 1 & 2, it had similar style of artwork to what rare is using, and the game wasnt exactly for kids.

But its y'all tastes. if the game is fun then its all good with me.

Computing..

quote:

Anyway...I like the anime-ish design. I already have it as a wallpaper in Windows.
I do wonder how the enemy will look.

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Omar
85th Post

Occasional Customer

"Re(2):Influenced by Anime because..." , posted Sun 29 Sep 23:07

quote:

nothing againist your post Burning Ranger, I'm just saying it's going to be real stupid from a logic stand point if Rare or Microsoft sells PD:Zero as an "Anime FPS Adventure" or something like that...

They tried to do something like that with Oni (but it was a third person game with FPS controls). Was fun, but never finished it.

Burning Ranger

268th Post

Copper Customer

"Re(3):Influenced by Anime because..." , posted Mon 30 Sep 13:07

quote:

nothing againist your post Burning Ranger, I'm just saying it's going to be real stupid from a logic stand point if Rare or Microsoft sells PD:Zero as an "Anime FPS Adventure" or something like that...

No offense taken... Thats just what I'm speculating that's all. I also don't think FPS games don't go over all to well in Japan, but I don't know because I don't live there. *shrug*

"Never underestimate the predictabilty of stupidity." -Vinnie Jones from SNATCH