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| The colonel
0th Post
 
New Customer
|  "Get off kof 2002's case, just chill & play."
, posted Sat 24 Aug 16:00
Just wait a little longer to see what the finished version is like. Most people don't know about the new animations, some fools actially think that kof does not evolve. As a matter of fact each kof game is very unique in there own right & there are 4 very different styled versions, they are in groups like this.
94 & 95
96 & 97
99 & 2000
2001
& 2001 has changed in the way it plays to be considerd different, (although i was dissapointed that the basic moves of the older characters where never changed, kyo got his new far D & that was it for 2000, but they changed it back in 2001 to a special follow up) Bigger sprites, super cancel, different feel to the (new timing was needed for specials) game, improved strikers so they where not that dominant & wire moves.
At least it looks to have changed more than 98 did over 97! i think anyway, new specials & basic moves, thats all i want.
Look on the bright side, at least we have a great fighting game series thats continuing.
If people really want to slate companys, then turn to capcoms fighters, they are the ones that never progress, you ask somebody, whats your faverate fighter made by c*apcom & they always say the latest version that came out, alpha 3, street fighter 3 3rd s or marvel vs capcom which i think is a brave attempt at doing things different in the games features department, but having 4 buttons is a real drag down because capcom find it hard to make game characters properly with 6 buttons, never mind 4, plus there are not any new moves really. There resident evil titles are top notch & they do now how to make a decent non fighting game well.
Your power is great but you will never defeat the colonel
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Replies:
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| TheBeast 953th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
    
    
   
| "Re(1):Get off kof 2002's case, just chill & p" , posted Sat 24 Aug 16:15
quote:
Just wait a little longer to see what the finished version is like. Most people don't know about the new animations, some fools actially think that kof does not evolve. As a matter of fact each kof game is very unique in there own right & there are 4 very different styled versions, they are in groups like this.
94 & 95
96 & 97
99 & 2000
2001
& 2001 has changed in the way it plays to be considerd different, (although i was dissapointed that the basic moves of the older characters where never changed, kyo got his new far D & that was it for 2000, but they changed it back in 2001 to a special follow up) Bigger sprites, super cancel, different feel to the (new timing was needed for specials) game, improved strikers so they where not that dominant & wire moves.
At least it looks to have changed more than 98 did over 97! i think anyway, new specials & basic moves, thats all i want.
Look on the bright side, at least we have a great fighting game series thats continuing.
If people really want to slate companys, then turn to capcoms fighters, they are the ones that never progress, you ask somebody, whats your faverate fighter made by c*apcom & they always say the latest version that came out, alpha 3, street fighter 3 3rd s or marvel vs capcom which i think is a brave attempt at doing things different in the games features department, but having 4 buttons is a real drag down because capcom find it hard to make game characters properly with 6 buttons, never mind 4, plus there are not any new moves really. There resident evil titles are top notch & they do now how to make a decent non fighting game well.
Welcome to the site colonel!!! Warm welcomes from TheBeast!! 
Hmmmm if you are talking about gameplay versions, I would classify them differently instead...
94,95,96 - Charged power bar, lower life unlimited DM
97,98 - Extra/Advanced mode, rolling becomes more vital, power bar stocks
99,2000 - Counter/Armour mode, strikers
2001 - Fighters to striker ratio
It does look more changed, of course from 2001, but it doesn't look more changed from 98...
Well, we don't forget and overlook the good points, but as normal humans we whine more about the bad things first, then learn to appreciate what is the good being offered... I suppose everyone would agree with me - we all treat KOF like an annual birthday/christmas gift that holds big promises, big surprises, and SNK/Eolith being our parent/santa. So naturally we would feel disappointed if it does not live up to our expectations.
Capcom fighting games are a different thing. They do not hype it up like an annual thing, so when people have less expectations, there are less whinings to be done.
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| Genjuro
61th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):Get off kof 2002's case, just chill & p" , posted Sat 24 Aug 16:41
I don't agree with everyhing you said colonel,but you are damn right about one thing:judge the game after you've played it
the last couple of days everybody's whining about kof2k2 looking similar to'98,not enough players(true),strikers,or whatever..
My point is,even though kof is not what it used to be maybe we should accept the fact that one kof is going to be released every year..whatever its shortcomings,I could not see a year go by without a new kof...
and maybe everybody should accept their shortcomings compared to the old kofs considering the fact that they got one year to release the game and that SNK is finnaly(officially) closed...IMO kof99 doesn't resemble the old kofs and kof2000 even less so.But come to think of it,despite of everybody's not liking kof 2k and 2k1(and maybe '99),perhaps we should think of it as an evolution to the series..the facts that people don't seem to like in the new kofs(after '98) could be what snk intended for kof(whether some fans like it or not-I myself had no whines about kof2k1 part from the stages-they're dreadful...)
 "What a waste... ...of time..."
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| The colonel
4th Post
New Customer
| "Re(5):Get off kof 2002's case, just chill & p" , posted Sat 24 Aug 18:01
Did 94 have shitty gameplay? I can't remember that far back.
You all have to start somewhere, but i get a buzz off knowing capcom made better games up intill ss2, kof 96, ff3 & rbff came along.
Its a rare site to see, when you get a company come & think about what they where doing wrong & calmly made better game features & character design to take the hot spot.
Just as long as you listen to other peoples oppinions & always try the game out first intill you can play at a decent level, then you can decide on which is technicaly the best. Snk do think about movement patterns in there games alot, this is the key element of fighting games, the more flexible the game is, the easy it is for unique experts to dominate. Fighting games these days tekken 4 & vitua fighter 4 have gone down hill because they are trying to appeal to other audiances, which do not give a shit about fighting games in the first place, boy is that the stupidist decision to make. I mean, you will not get me hooked on shake spear novels or sumo wrestling, simply because they are boring to me.
Yeah, i like ssf2t (its to old to play now though, but i do every now & then, we have people that get silly high scores of about 1900000 or even 2 million on level 8 & can play vs matches well too) but i'am not going to wership them, because they never listen to other peoples adears & they are secure finance wise, so they do not need my support.
3rd strike is ok too, but it becomes a little shallow all too soon. The throws are to strong & are abused, (i abuse them anyway) also parrying just is not a great idear to put in a fighter for it to be the best. 3rd strike needs better character attack variations, you just end up jumping & parrying everything they throw at you & punish them or you land & throw them, they escape & you do it all over again. Thats why i do rate mark of the wolves that highly. Also mark of the wolves looses the character attack variation that i mentioned earlier, its just 3rd strike with decent character designs, but they are very good for the first installment of motw, mastering the taunt cancels is quite hard too, which is a good thing, harder the better, as long as its fair at the same.time
Your power is great but you will never defeat the colonel
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| RugalBernstein 2297th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
| "Re(1):Get off kof 2002's case, just chill & p" , posted Sat 24 Aug 21:39
As a long time KOF and SNK fan, I can say that I find 2002 to look very disappointing, to put it politely. Even so far as it being a cut-and-paste game, which I had expected even since it was confirmed to be a " Dream Match " , I find it lacking. However, I will still probably buy it. Why, you ask? Hey, I want a complete KOF collection, even if some of them aren't very good.. and the fact that it has Rugal in it is a bonus. ^_^
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| TheBeast 966th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(1):Hmmm..." , posted Sun 25 Aug 16:20
quote:
If people really want to slate companys, then turn to capcoms fighters, they are the ones that never progress, you ask somebody, whats your faverate fighter made by c*apcom & they always say the latest version that came out,
Now here's a biased, short-sighted and downright UNTRUE statement if I ever heard any...
Well, I wouldn't say its untrue, but just think about it...
If a sequel does not top the previous one, why do they make it?? It just doesn't make sense!!!
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| The colonel
12th Post
New Customer
| "Re(2):Hmmm..." , posted Mon 26 Aug 04:25
quote:
If people really want to slate companys, then turn to capcoms fighters, they are the ones that never progress, you ask somebody, whats your faverate fighter made by c*apcom & they always say the latest version that came out,
Now here's a biased, short-sighted and downright UNTRUE statement if I ever heard any...
Well, I wouldn't say its untrue, but just think about it...
If a sequel does not top the previous one, why do they make it?? It just doesn't make sense!!!
Well, i sort of meant that capcoms best game's are the ones which are the newest to arrive. I'am not talking about the kof series.
Your power is great but you will never defeat the colonel
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| TheBeast 976th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(3):Hmmm..." , posted Mon 26 Aug 04:40
quote:
If a sequel does not top the previous one, why do they make it?? It just doesn't make sense!!!
So, there should never have been a KoF 99, 2000, or 2001?
Capcom and SNK holds different views for making a sequel, from what I see. When Capcom realises that it has done very well for a sequel, they stopped making the sequels to that game, unless they are VERY SURE that they can top that. Heck, they have a very impressive R&D team, they can always find more "money-spinning" ideas...That's why I am pretty sure that most likely you wouldn't see another sequel to SFA, Marvel vs Capcom, Capcom Vs SNK....
Now SNK...or Eolith/Playmore now...doesn't have the capabalities to "toy with another money-spinning" idea. They don't make KOF because we demand it very year, but because they want profits out of it. KOF is their only trump card , they can't choose to produce other games that ripped more profits than KOF - and all the more they refused to change to a new board, just in case it turns out to be disasterous like SS64 or FF:Wild Ambition. All the more they will try and squeeze more out of MVS board and KOF, until Capcom or some other game companies has created a new evolution of game...
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| The colonel
13th Post
New Customer
| "Re(4):Hmmm..." , posted Mon 26 Aug 07:06
quote:
Well, i sort of meant that capcoms best game's are the ones which are the newest to arrive. I'am not talking about the kof series.
Like theBeast says, that's the point in making a sequel. Who would buy a sequel worse than the original product?
You have to try to make enough new features for the game to be different enough.
Thats why when i played alpha 2, i was thinking, hey capcom this is not even worth being called a sequel, the differences are not what let it down, its the whole genral game which just gets boring fast no matter how you look at it. Alpha 3 is more of the same with more speed & still the exact same game engine complete with bad sprite detection on the projectiles, you can't even jump them on the spot. My brother looked at me when new the hit detection was that bad & never really played street fighter again, as he new it weant down hill.
I also can see that when capcom make moves for the characters, i & many others can tell that the characters moves should not even look like how they do, they all come out fast & hit you strait away, how can they have the balls to make snk vs capcom when they know the snk characters are more fair in the fact you can see there moves coming easier which caters for skill as you can react to it, then watching capcoms charcters just idle'e stick there legs out when someone gets close & pull off supers at point blank range to hit peoples feet & any lims they stick out.
I always thought that capcom could do better, but now i think that they can't & they hit the wall along time ago as there programming skills came to a stand still after ssf2t. The funny thing is, is that people still say that they are the best, what do they now if they never give other companys fighters a chance to shine, they are lost when they see the game has only 4 buttons & think kof's crap when there feeble minds can not be botherd to think up there own character strategys, because in kof you react to every move in different ways depending on you style, whilst capcom's games have you press one of the magic 6 buttons to put a stop to your opponents attacks & wait for there mistakes, in 3 rd strike its the best person who can parry is the better player, well parrying is not a very good featureto have in fighting games in the first place, they are like beginners moves which experts can take advantage of.
Your power is great but you will never defeat the colonel
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| Iggy 497th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(5):Hmmm..." , posted Mon 26 Aug 09:04
quote:
Thats why when i played alpha 2, i was thinking, hey capcom this is not even worth being called a sequel, the differences are not what let it down, its the whole genral game which just gets boring fast no matter how you look at it.
But this game was the one that created the original Combo, which was to be adapted in... KOF 2002. I don't see your point here... you complain that Capcom's sequel are each time the same game, then you bash a game with one of the most original systems until SF3...
[SNIP the rest, it made me wonder if you ever played the games you were talking about, not to mention that you only spoke of Street Fighter, like if Capcom never did anything else....]
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| TheBeast 982th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(7):Hmmm..." , posted Mon 26 Aug 09:25
quote:
But this game was the one that created the original Combo, which was to be adapted in... KOF 2002. I don't see your point here... you complain that Capcom's sequel are each time the same game, then you bash a game with one of the most original systems until SF3...
[SNIP the rest, it made me wonder if you ever played the games you were talking about, not to mention that you only spoke of Street Fighter, like if Capcom never did anything else....]
Don't bother replying my dear Iggy, looks like we have a new SNK fanboy in here...
Ah, gotta love them, ha ha
Uhhhh lets just don't start another SNK vs Capcom flamee war now, huh??
Oh yeah onslaught your avatar still gives me the creeps, as if that cat-tuna killer is going to jump right out of there and eat me alive...
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| TheBeast 983th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(5):Hmmm..." , posted Mon 26 Aug 09:36
quote:
You have to try to make enough new features for the game to be different enough.
Thats why when i played alpha 2, i was thinking, hey capcom this is not even worth being called a sequel, the differences are not what let it down, its the whole genral game which just gets boring fast no matter how you look at it. Alpha 3 is more of the same with more speed & still the exact same game engine complete with bad sprite detection on the projectiles, you can't even jump them on the spot. My brother looked at me when new the hit detection was that bad & never really played street fighter again, as he new it weant down hill.
To me, Alpha 2 is way much improvement over Alpha 1 (which is really bad) in every possible way. Alpha 3 improves on the mistakes of Alpha 2 and gives 3 grooves plus new interesting characters. They are good sequels in their own light. I don't think there is a "bad sprite detection on the projectiles", this is the 1st time I heard of it.
quote:
I also can see that when capcom make moves for the characters, i & many others can tell that the characters moves should not even look like how they do, they all come out fast & hit you strait away, how can they have the balls to make snk vs capcom when they know the snk characters are more fair in the fact you can see there moves coming easier which caters for skill as you can react to it, then watching capcoms charcters just idle'e stick there legs out when someone gets close & pull off supers at point blank range to hit peoples feet & any lims they stick out.
I always thought that capcom could do better, but now i think that they can't & they hit the wall along time ago as there programming skills came to a stand still after ssf2t. The funny thing is, is that people still say that they are the best, what do they now if they never give other companys fighters a chance to shine, they are lost when they see the game has only 4 buttons & think kof's crap when there feeble minds can not be botherd to think up there own character strategys, because in kof you react to every move in different ways depending on you style, whilst capcom's games have you press one of the magic 6 buttons to put a stop to your opponents attacks & wait for there mistakes, in 3 rd strike its the best person who can parry is the better player, well parrying is not a very good featureto have in fighting games in the first place, they are like beginners moves which experts can take advantage of.
Doesn't SNK do that too? (Do you mean that Capcom moves are unleashed too fast?)Honestly I would like to see someone in real life does a rising tackle though...
If Parrying is bad, strikers are 100x worse off... Just defense from MOTW  SDM isn't any better either.
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| The colonel
14th Post
New Customer
| "Re(6):Hmmm..." , posted Mon 26 Aug 10:39
The point is at the least, the characters should go through changes to make you a better player with that character. Why do they not take out guiles sonic boom & replace with something else, take out kens dragon punch or ryu's crouch MK. There characters never change, even sf3 has 3 versions & the changes are minimal but they are there, i do not count swapping button configurations.
The changes from 99,2000,2001 is more than sf 3's & they are the worst versions according to smany others, (not by me) those people who hate 2k are the people who can not be bothered to adjust there game to win, because they like & are to used to the other versions.
But yeah! it is a smelly idea to some.
Parrying i find to be a very limited idear once you get good at it. I prefer companys to make better character moves & movement for flexabillity to get around others moves & there strategys. Parrying is just a cheap way of making all characters good by making us (the human) do the work for them, by parrying we do the defence ourselves to cater for weak character design, even in MOTW.
I'm saying this because i know what goes into making the best games. Only if i where a programmer hehe.
Your power is great but you will never defeat the colonel
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| Toxico 2189th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(8):Hmmm..."
, posted Mon 26 Aug 12:17:
For what about what I have saw here...
SFA2 was not a neat game to me, the game itself attempted to weaken the SFA oddities (chains being a resourse too abusing for some characters -just look how heavenly can Guy be played-) the game itself was just that, some random moves are putted and the custom combo system was an art that palled next to the strenght of Level 3 supers; by the other way I got a grip of SFA3, even though the the guard meter was not nice to me (I can't play Zangief/Somdom vs Blanka/Nash/Shotos without blocking the whole time) the several recovery systems that the game offered "parries" to lessen the guard damage as moves to air recover or lose less energy when attacked) made de game a lot more interactive to me; also the air juggling system allowed a new face that was covering the lost of the chains, and it was good in my humble opinion, the one that made the exact recovery move to escape actually escapes, do it wrongly and suffer.
On the SF strikes matter I got to play A LOT of SF2nd Strike, te parry system overall is a nice idea but it ends in some move be ratherly useless (as they can be parried with ease), I for one enjoyed more 2nd strike than 3rd strike, issue that I a, yet to discover why happens.
On the Strikers issue I don't hold anything against SNK/Eolith.... Why??, simple, it was a new method that allowed many possibilities, so properly testing it would have taken forever, as it would be good to play a game without faults, I am pretty sure that KoF '2000 could be still on beta test if they where aimming to launch a game without faults, and also consider that SNK NEVER does a worth-while bug check of their games, they always release games before they can be achieve true perfection (and don't give me that bull-shit that KoF '98 is perfect because it is not); either you like or you don't like Capcom games, you can see that most of the times games are perfect in the sense that in the gamin engine there is nothing that the programmers did not wanted to, never an infinite (I just have saw one with Hugo on 2nd strike); and don't give me that crap that vs games have too many bugs, those games are made only for the cast to cause a ruckus and the profit, thus capcom never would threate those games seriously giving the level of achievement that have obtained with other games.
As for the game KoF 2002 itself I am glad to tell that I have saw more of the "alternative cast" that I was hoping for, I am yet to figure out what the game has to offer (as the rest of us) but what does set me different from almost every player I have meet is that I never look at the faults or the achievements, it does not matter to me how big they are, I only look at the idea behind the game what appeals to me (either game play or storyline), so most of the time I end up liking games that the popular opinion catalogates of 'crap' (AoF 3 anyone??), and because of that I most of the time stand on the side of alternative games.
[this message was edited by Toxico on Mon 26 Aug 12:23] |
| Izek
28th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(4):Re(10):Hmmm..." , posted Tue 27 Aug 01:37
quote:
have u forgotten about the KOFs before '99? remember the 2 other team mambers in the bg that u could call for help? i think thats where capcom got their idea, cuz that idea came WAY before any of the vs series.
therefore, the only place SNK took the idea of strikers was from themselves.
There was no striker bomb (or whatever it was called), there was no character-specific action, and (like in KOF 2000) there was no "We don't have the time to put that character in the game, what shall we do? Oh! I know! let's make him striker-only! what a great idea! I'm sure everyone will love us for that!!"
And before 99, the helps were used to break grabs. If the strikers came from there, they would have been combo breakers, not useless combo starters.
i saw a kof 97 or 98 (can't remember) combo video where the dude used a team member from the backround as part of a nearly 100% combo.
and i also so a dude in the arcades use them like 3-4 times consecutivly in the same round.
this was the BASIC concept (just like the first fighting game) which capcom took and used, which later SNK used aswell.
so if u wanna call anybody a cheater, its capcom.
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| Toxico 2193th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
|  "Re(4):Re(10):Hmmm..."
, posted Tue 27 Aug 06:03
quote:
have u forgotten about the KOFs before '99? remember the 2 other team mambers in the bg that u could call for help? i think thats where capcom got their idea, cuz that idea came WAY before any of the vs series.
therefore, the only place SNK took the idea of strikers was from themselves.
There was no striker bomb (or whatever it was called), there was no character-specific action, and (like in KOF 2000) there was no "We don't have the time to put that character in the game, what shall we do? Oh! I know! let's make him striker-only! what a great idea! I'm sure everyone will love us for that!!"
And before 99, the helps were used to break grabs. If the strikers came from there, they would have been combo breakers, not useless combo starters.
Remember Puppy and Mamahaha, Galford's and Nakoruru's pets that DID aid on the battle, 1993, Samurai Spirits I.
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Sure,they're lazy,but they helped revolutionize the fighting game scene. You gotta give them their props! They're cool with me,even if they have been letting us fans down as of late. I agree on the prequels thing,but hey,that's them.
"Re(2):helpers before KOF 99" 
the image as it shows