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TheBeast

825th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member+

""Triology question" about KOF" , posted Mon 12 Aug 19:12

I've just thought about this, so just made up a seperate thread from all the other KOF2002-related threads...

Come to think of it KOF storylines do not come in 3s...First of all, should KOF95 be considered part of the Orochi saga? We do not even know about the existance of Orochi till KOF96, and the Orochi story was fully developed and told in KOF97. Heck, I suspect that they just somehow link Rugal to Orochi by slapping a story saying that he siphoned some of the energy. I am not sure when Rugal had his eye gorged out by Goenitz, but if Rugal got his powers from the Orochi power, then he should have gotten it in KOF94, making the Orochi saga 4 years long instead of 3.

Also, when the Orochi saga ended, there was no sub-storyline left unexplained, except a minor fact that Yamazaki is one of the orochi, and that he kinda "disappeared" from KOF after that. When the NESTS saga ended, what happens to Ron and Misty? What is the deal behind the dragon power that Bao possess, and does that have anything to do with NESTS? IT seems like both Original Zero and Igniz both knew about the dragon power (their quotes say so, unless its another errorous translation job), so it is no big secret...What happened to K9999, Angel, Diana? With these sub-storylines still remains unexplained, could we really justify that NESTS saga had ended?

Anyway, this is just a personal rant about the reason they gave for making KOF2002 a dream match. I appreciate them for bringing back old favourite, but giving an excuse of making KOF "triology" storylines just doesn't seem fit, to me...

Replies:

Freeter

2992th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"trilogy" , posted Mon 12 Aug 19:55

quote:
Come to think of it KOF storylines do not come in 3s...First of all, should KOF95 be considered part of the Orochi saga? We do not even know about the existance of Orochi till KOF96, and the Orochi story was fully developed and told in KOF97. Heck, I suspect that they just somehow link Rugal to Orochi by slapping a story saying that he siphoned some of the energy. I am not sure when Rugal had his eye gorged out by Goenitz, but if Rugal got his powers from the Orochi power, then he should have gotten it in KOF94, making the Orochi saga 4 years long instead of 3.

94 was a dream match, plain and simple. The Orochi saga did indeed start in 95, since we get the hint of a greater power behind the scenes.

quote:
When the NESTS saga ended, what happens to Ron and Misty? What is the deal behind the dragon power that Bao possess, and does that have anything to do with NESTS?

We won't know until the new story arc begins.

quote:
giving an excuse of making KOF "triology" storylines just doesn't seem fit, to me...

I think it works, since the stories don't drag on and the series can somewhat stay fresh(would you really want Kyo to Mu Shiki everyone every year?).

MVS version in 2003. Are you ready?

RugalBernstein

2256th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(1):trilogy" , posted Mon 12 Aug 20:09

I seriously doubt '94 was a " dream match " considering KOF '95 is a direct sequel. The " trilogy " garbage is a bunch of new crap they made up to explain why they were doing a dream match suddenly... when the truth is that they couldn't think of anything to do with the story they've started.

Rid Hershel

3243th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"laziness" , posted Mon 12 Aug 20:11

That's why Playmore is releasing a dream match if you ask me. Less money spent on development too.

Oh, and "trilogy" sounds cool.

Satoshi Miwa

1364th Post

Red Carpet Executive Member

"Re(2):trilogy" , posted Mon 12 Aug 20:24

94 is considered a Dream Match in that it was considered an SNK dream battle (All of the classic SNK characters, plus one new Team being Japan). It does take part in the central plot though, so it's not part of Playmore's new Dream Match buzz word meanings...

I don't know why Playmore is ignoring 94 with their new Trilogy stuff, since 94 clearly setups 95 and does play a roll in the whole Orochi plot line. Without Rugal getting beaten by Kyo we wouldn't have had Omega Rugal, and we wouldn't have had the start of the Orochi arc...

Gen

488th Post

Gold Customer

"Re(1):" , posted Mon 12 Aug 20:38

quote:
I've just thought about this, so just made up a seperate thread from all the other KOF2002-related threads...

Come to think of it KOF storylines do not come in 3s...First of all, should KOF95 be considered part of the Orochi saga? We do not even know about the existance of Orochi till KOF96, and the Orochi story was fully developed and told in KOF97. Heck, I suspect that they just somehow link Rugal to Orochi by slapping a story saying that he siphoned some of the energy. I am not sure when Rugal had his eye gorged out by Goenitz, but if Rugal got his powers from the Orochi power, then he should have gotten it in KOF94, making the Orochi saga 4 years long instead of 3.

Also, when the Orochi saga ended, there was no sub-storyline left unexplained, except a minor fact that Yamazaki is one of the orochi, and that he kinda "disappeared" from KOF after that. When the NESTS saga ended, what happens to Ron and Misty? What is the deal behind the dragon power that Bao possess, and does that have anything to do with NESTS? IT seems like both Original Zero and Igniz both knew about the dragon power (their quotes say so, unless its another errorous translation job), so it is no big secret...What happened to K9999, Angel, Diana? With these sub-storylines still remains unexplained, could we really justify that NESTS saga had ended?

Anyway, this is just a personal rant about the reason they gave for making KOF2002 a dream match. I appreciate them for bringing back old favourite, but giving an excuse of making KOF "triology" storylines just doesn't seem fit, to me...

Yup. It's like the people in charge of KoF now are fanboys / Star Wars fans / and haven't played all the KoF games or have forgot the older ones.

Gen

493th Post

Gold Customer

"Re(2):trilogy" , posted Mon 12 Aug 20:40:

quote:
I seriously doubt '94 was a " dream match " considering KOF '95 is a direct sequel. The " trilogy " garbage is a bunch of new crap they made up to explain why they were doing a dream match suddenly... when the truth is that they couldn't think of anything to do with the story they've started.

It is crap. If '95-'97 was a trillogy, than as soon as they made '99 it was no longer a trillogy. (well that's one way of looking at it.) The people making KoF now aren't qualified to make KoF. And I agree, it's more crap because they were too lazy to make a real new game so they made another 'dream match' too soon.
My suggestion to them is to skip the dream match. If they can't make a new game for 2002, how about spending 2 years making 2003? ...Then it would be twice as good ^_^. I wouldn't be upset anymore if they skipped a year for this purpose.

[this message was edited by Gen on Mon 12 Aug 21:22]

Fro Boy11

809th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member+

"Re(3):trilogy" , posted Mon 12 Aug 21:05

KOF'94 was infact a dream match. That's how it was supposed to be. Even though it set up a story. That was probably gonna happen anyway. I mean just in case KOF wasn't successful they could have continued the story in AOF or FF or a brand new game with the Japan Team in it. The series took off and they made a big story. Maybe SNK didn't plan on having more KOF games, or maybe they didn't plan on it taking off like it did?

Since you guys are using Star Wars stuff with this....think of KOF'94 as a sneak preview before Star Wars: Episode 1 came out. Episode 1 being like KOF'95, and so on and so forth. Anakin Skywalker would be like Kyo....being the star and everything (I'm going in order by Star Wars timeline) 3 games pass by (3 movies) then and then you have the dream match (sneak preview for Episode 4: The new hope) Then a new KOF comes out.....KOF '99. Like Episode 4 came out...Luke would be like K'...being the new star. 3 movies later...and bam this is where we are now. Another dream match or sneak preview or however you wanna go about it.

Fro Boy11

815th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member+

"Re(3):trilogy" , posted Mon 12 Aug 21:32

quote:
I seriously doubt '94 was a " dream match " considering KOF '95 is a direct sequel. The " trilogy " garbage is a bunch of new crap they made up to explain why they were doing a dream match suddenly... when the truth is that they couldn't think of anything to do with the story they've started.

It is crap. If '95-'97 was a trillogy, than as soon as they made '99 it was no longer a trillogy. (well that's one way of looking at it.) The people making KoF now aren't qualified to make KoF. And I agree, it's more crap because they were too lazy to make a real new game so they made another 'dream match' too soon.
My suggestion to them is to skip the dream match. If they can't make a new game for 2002, how about spending 2 years making 2003? ...Then it would be twice as good ^_^. I wouldn't be upset anymore if they skipped a year for this purpose.

You do know that Playmore/SNK will be making KOF2003? They've had since after kof2000 to come up with what they wanna do with kof2k3. They could be working on it right now. I mean if you don't like Eolith making KOF now then you should be happy that they just make 2k2 a dream match instead of screwing up a whole new story.

Gen

494th Post

Gold Customer

"Re(4):trilogy" , posted Mon 12 Aug 22:54:

quote:
You do know that Playmore/SNK will be making KOF2003? They've had since after kof2000 to come up with what they wanna do with kof2k3. They could be working on it right now. I mean if you don't like Eolith making KOF now then you should be happy that they just make 2k2 a dream match instead of screwing up a whole new story.

Last I heard Eolith was still in on 2002 so presumably 2003 will be just Playmore/Brezza. It seems like Playmore/Brezza with all their former business problems straightened out by now would make a better KoF. Also seems that Playmore/Brezza are the closest contributing companies to the original SNK talent pool. So I hope they are the one's making 2003, and it will be great! That would be even better for 2003 if they had already started working on it during the time that Eolith was contributing or during the time that 2002 was being made.

[this message was edited by Gen on Mon 12 Aug 22:56]

Juan

2292th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Not a dog darned trilogy!" , posted Mon 12 Aug 23:58:

KOF 94 its not a dream match, period.
Rugal presses his favorite button, explodes, then comes back revived with orochi power and his numerous prosthetic parts (tho the eye was taken by Goenitz? what about his hand? probably lost when he pressed the button hah!)
Maybe the employee interviewed used the wrong word or is mistranslated, kof is most likely composed of sagas, like dbz (Rugal saga, orochi saga, nests saga, arr!) and such.

It aint no dream match!

quote:
KOF'94 was infact a dream match. That's how it was supposed to be. Even though it set up a story. That was probably gonna happen anyway. I mean just in case KOF wasn't successful they could have continued the story in AOF or FF or a brand new game with the Japan Team in it. The series took off and they made a big story. Maybe SNK didn't plan on having more KOF games, or maybe they didn't plan on it taking off like it did?

http://www.buttermonster.com
I am Juan's buttered website.

[this message was edited by Juan on Tue 13 Aug 00:05]

Amakusa
27th Post

Rare Customer

"Re(1):" , posted Tue 13 Aug 00:10

As much as I sometimes like the KOF story, it doesn't mean anything if the game they put out is sell-out crappy like 2K1 was. The winning formula is the tough and gritty KOF gameplay with the SNKglish magic, and the story is the icing.

As far as the whole trilogy thing is going, that's only in the loosest sense, y'see. It's taking the old recipe and adding a little more flavor as you go along, refining it all the more, throwing away what's not good and retaining what works (although you don't have to agree with it). The 'trilogy thing' is just making new types of cake off the same old recipe.

I found Kagami's sword in a junk yard.
"Dink-a-dink-a-dink-a-do."

TiamatRoar
179th Post

Regular Customer

"Re(1):Not a dog darned trilogy!" , posted Tue 13 Aug 00:12

I think the biggest problem here is that people are going by differing definitions of a dream match...

At any rate, in terms of whether it actually happened or not, KOF 94 is not a dream match. That should be obvious. But... I did hear that originally, it was supposed to be a dream match for the most part bringing together a bunch of SNK all-stars, which is why the story in KOF 94 is really kind of light when you think about it. And also why it completely screwed up the Art of Fighting time line with its mere existance :P But then they saw that they had a good thing going so they decided to make it real and continue it, I think. Not sure though^^;

justicekyo

265th Post

Copper Customer

"Re(1):Not a dog darned trilogy!" , posted Tue 13 Aug 00:15

quote:
KOF 94 its not a dream match, period.
Rugal presses his favorite button, explodes, then comes back revived with orochi power and his numerous prosthetic parts (tho the eye was taken by Goenitz? what about his hand? probably lost when he pressed the button hah!)
Maybe the employee interviewed used the wrong word or is mistranslated, kof is most likely composed of sagas, like dbz (Rugal saga, orochi saga, nests saga, arr!) and such.

It aint no dream match!

KOF'94 was infact a dream match. That's how it was supposed to be. Even though it set up a story. That was probably gonna happen anyway. I mean just in case KOF wasn't successful they could have continued the story in AOF or FF or a brand new game with the Japan Team in it. The series took off and they made a big story. Maybe SNK didn't plan on having more KOF games, or maybe they didn't plan on it taking off like it did?

Goenitz in fact did take Rugal's eye... explained by Chizuru in the mid-boss demo before(or was it after? cant remember)you fight her.

Fro Boy11

827th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member+

"Re(2):Not a dog darned trilogy!" , posted Tue 13 Aug 00:21

quote:
I think the biggest problem here is that people are going by differing definitions of a dream match...

At any rate, in terms of whether it actually happened or not, KOF 94 is not a dream match. That should be obvious. But... I did hear that originally, it was supposed to be a dream match for the most part bringing together a bunch of SNK all-stars, which is why the story in KOF 94 is really kind of light when you think about it. And also why it completely screwed up the Art of Fighting time line with its mere existance :P But then they saw that they had a good thing going so they decided to make it real and continue it, I think. Not sure though^^;

That's pretty much what I said, only you made it make more sense.

Fro Boy11

828th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member+

"Re(2):Not a dog darned trilogy!" , posted Tue 13 Aug 00:22

quote:
KOF 94 its not a dream match, period.
Rugal presses his favorite button, explodes, then comes back revived with orochi power and his numerous prosthetic parts (tho the eye was taken by Goenitz? what about his hand? probably lost when he pressed the button hah!)
Maybe the employee interviewed used the wrong word or is mistranslated, kof is most likely composed of sagas, like dbz (Rugal saga, orochi saga, nests saga, arr!) and such.

It aint no dream match!

KOF'94 was infact a dream match. That's how it was supposed to be. Even though it set up a story. That was probably gonna happen anyway. I mean just in case KOF wasn't successful they could have continued the story in AOF or FF or a brand new game with the Japan Team in it. The series took off and they made a big story. Maybe SNK didn't plan on having more KOF games, or maybe they didn't plan on it taking off like it did?

Goenitz in fact did take Rugal's eye... explained by Chizuru in the mid-boss demo before(or was it after? cant remember)you fight her.

I think it was after you fight her. I'm not sure either now that I think about it.....

Satoshi Miwa

1365th Post

Red Carpet Executive Member

"Re(3):Not a dog darned trilogy!" , posted Tue 13 Aug 00:43

quote:
I think it was after you fight her. I'm not sure either now that I think about it.....

She explained it after you beat her, only mentioning that she wanted to meet the power that beat Rugal in the pre-fight dialouge...

DKW
126th Post

Regular Customer

"Here's how it goes..." , posted Tue 13 Aug 03:08

pre-'94: "Hey, I got a real cool idea! We could have a fighting game with all our favorit characters! Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting, Athena, Ikari Warriors (may have to work on this one a bit), everyone in one huge fighting extravaganza! Maybe we could even toss in a few guys from our old sports games, just for fun. It'll be great.
'94: "Wow, this game turned out great. We gotta do a sequel now."
'95: "I know...we'll make this a 'revenge' battle, and we'll introduce this way cool fire-user who's a rival to the new star...name him 'Yori' or something. And we can introduce even more of our favorites since he'll have his own team. Oh yeah, and drop a few, heh heh, hints as to Rugal's power."
'96: "'Yamato no Orochi'...whoa, that's deep. Not sure if it'll be appropriate for a slam-bang dream match like KOF, but it'll do fine for a one-off story. Oh yeah, introduce a few original characters, maybe bring that cute aikido chick from Art of Fighting...whatthehell, that series is in the tank, may as well do something with her...and the host could be a savior type who's using the tournament to find a team that can beat the big bad Orochi boss. Yeah, cheesy as heck, but it'll be fun just this one time."
'97: "Dang, I had no idea Goenitz would actually be popular. Okay, what this whole Orochi brouhaha obviously needs is a big sendoff. Hey, a chance to design cool new characters! Like the New Face Team. Now that the old names like Terry and Andy and Yuri and Clark and Ralf have been around so long, maybe it's time we started phasing them out to make room for the wave of the future."
'98: "Orochi this...Orochi that...can't breathe...please...no...Orochi...anything...just the tournament...make up any story you like...I don't care...just no more Orochi...I'm begging you..."
'99: "What's that? They say '98 never happened?? And we'd better come up with a new arc pronto? One that can match up to the Orochi arc? Think now, think...okay, I think I got it..."
'00: "Aack...too much story...blow up Southtown? Okay...make it the Edit Team ending, no one ever takes that seriously..."
'01: "Hey, look, SNK planned out the entire series as fixed 3-game arcs sandwiched between nonexistent fictitious mythical Dream Matches from the very beginning! That's a great system! All right, let's get started wrapping up this Nests thing."

Well, that's about it. It started simple and managble, SNK made a bunch of really bad moves that horribly overcomplicated things, the fate of KOF was carved in stone the instant they made their first "Dream Match", and Eolith, not knowing any better, is continuing the "tradition".

There's no set pattern. SNK was making things up as they went along. What happened was what happened, nothing more.

That said, I'm actually glad that '02 is going to be unchained by a story. It'd be nice to have a decent roster again.

homepage - http://home.hawaii.rr.com/dkwff

Toxico

2159th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(1):Here's how it goes..." , posted Tue 13 Aug 10:16

quote:
pre-'94: "Hey, I got a real cool idea! We could have a fighting game with all our favorit characters! Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting, Athena, Ikari Warriors (may have to work on this one a bit), everyone in one huge fighting extravaganza! Maybe we could even toss in a few guys from our old sports games, just for fun. It'll be great.
'94: "Wow, this game turned out great. We gotta do a sequel now."
'95: "I know...we'll make this a 'revenge' battle, and we'll introduce this way cool fire-user who's a rival to the new star...name him 'Yori' or something. And we can introduce even more of our favorites since he'll have his own team. Oh yeah, and drop a few, heh heh, hints as to Rugal's power."
'96: "'Yamato no Orochi'...whoa, that's deep. Not sure if it'll be appropriate for a slam-bang dream match like KOF, but it'll do fine for a one-off story. Oh yeah, introduce a few original characters, maybe bring that cute aikido chick from Art of Fighting...whatthehell, that series is in the tank, may as well do something with her...and the host could be a savior type who's using the tournament to find a team that can beat the big bad Orochi boss. Yeah, cheesy as heck, but it'll be fun just this one time."
'97: "Dang, I had no idea Goenitz would actually be popular. Okay, what this whole Orochi brouhaha obviously needs is a big sendoff. Hey, a chance to design cool new characters! Like the New Face Team. Now that the old names like Terry and Andy and Yuri and Clark and Ralf have been around so long, maybe it's time we started phasing them out to make room for the wave of the future."
'98: "Orochi this...Orochi that...can't breathe...please...no...Orochi...anything...just the tournament...make up any story you like...I don't care...just no more Orochi...I'm begging you..."
'99: "What's that? They say '98 never happened?? And we'd better come up with a new arc pronto? One that can match up to the Orochi arc? Think now, think...okay, I think I got it..."
'00: "Aack...too much story...blow up Southtown? Okay...make it the Edit Team ending, no one ever takes that seriously..."
'01: "Hey, look, SNK planned out the entire series as fixed 3-game arcs sandwiched between nonexistent fictitious mythical Dream Matches from the very beginning! That's a great system! All right, let's get started wrapping up this Nests thing."

Well, that's about it. It started simple and managble, SNK made a bunch of really bad moves that horribly overcomplicated things, the fate of KOF was carved in stone the instant they made their first "Dream Match", and Eolith, not knowing any better, is continuing the "tradition".

There's no set pattern. SNK was making things up as they went along. What happened was what happened, nothing more.

That said, I'm actually glad that '02 is going to be unchained by a story. It'd be nice to have a decent roster again.

Darn you, I was about to post something like that; and you did forget to mention where they interview a staff memeber just after he say star wars, forgetting what what he once did due to the colors displayed on the movie... he probably said "Episode 4, episode 5, episode 6, 20 years, Episode 1, Episode 2, Episode 3... I want the bugger man"

Luisinan
28th Post

Rare Customer

"Re(1):Here's how it goes..." , posted Tue 13 Aug 10:50

1994 was a dreammatch and the trilogy system works fine this way! Repeat after me, 1994 was a dreammatch and the trilogy system works fine.

Look, 94 did have a story that did lead into 1995, but its not part of the Orochi Trilogy. Think of the Hobbit. The events in the Hobbit lead into the Lord of the Rings, but the Hobbit is not considered part of the Lord of the Rings trilogy. 1994 was a dream match with a story.

What is your problem against dreammatches anyway. I love good stories but 1998 has been called one of the better KOFs and had no story. Besides, its not like KOF has an intricate plot or anything. You will just have to wait another year to get your KOF story.

dorikyasu

573th Post

New Red Carpet Member

"Re(2):Here's how it goes..." , posted Tue 13 Aug 11:05

quote:
94 did have a story that did lead into 1995, but its not part of the Orochi Trilogy. Think of the Hobbit. The events in the Hobbit lead into the Lord of the Rings, but the Hobbit is not considered part of the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

Great analogy. That makes it so clear now...