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bootation
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"Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Wed 5 Jun 17:28post reply


I was wondering if it is fun.
how about a mini review anyone?






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Mosquiton
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"Re(1):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Wed 5 Jun 20:09post reply


quote:
I was wondering if it is fun.
how about a mini review anyone?



It's very bad. The only good thing about it is that the characters have decent stories. Really, I'm a big Samurai Shodown fan and I returned the game the day after I bought it.





/ / /

Rid Hershel
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"Re(2):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Wed 5 Jun 20:14post reply


quote:
I was wondering if it is fun.
how about a mini review anyone?


It's very bad. The only good thing about it is that the characters have decent stories. Really, I'm a big Samurai Shodown fan and I returned the game the day after I bought it.

Agreed, I have it, I played it once and I don't want to touch it anymore....





Rolling Start
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"Re(3):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Wed 5 Jun 22:01post reply


Which SS game has the guy with the big paintbrush? One of the 64 ones, IIRC...How does he fight?





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pointystick
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"Re(4):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Wed 5 Jun 22:11post reply


I have Samurai Showdown 2 for the NGPC, and for a while, I was wondering where these other characters came from, since the game didn't bother to introduce them. Then I remembered playing a 3D SS game in the arcade that, well, I hoped I wouldn't ever remember again.





RugalBernstein
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"Re(5):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 09:13post reply


The Samurai Spirits 64 Arcade game is a GOOD game, and it has no relations to the Playstation game at all. None of the characters are the same. If you want to see some movies of the arcade one my friend and I captured, contact me on ICQ... they're completely different games.





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"Re(6):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 09:36post reply


quote:
The Samurai Spirits 64 Arcade game is a GOOD game, and it has no relations to the Playstation game at all. None of the characters are the same.


Yea go waste your money on the PSX.

Or ive seen the Hyper 64 board and 2 game go for like $150 or less. All you need is a Cabinet and a monitor (better deal if you ask me!)





Ishmael
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"Re(7):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 10:10post reply


Let me add my voice to the chorus denouncing Sam Sho Warriors Rage. From the poor character design to the sloppy graphics and controls nothing in that game worked for me. I realized the game was bad when I found the silly Rimumuru mini guessing game that was used to unlock some hidden artwork from earlier, better Sam Sho games was vastly more entertaining than the game itself. Too bad to since the Sam Sho games was my personal fave series from SNK.





pointystick
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"Re(6):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 11:27post reply


quote:
The Samurai Spirits 64 Arcade game is a GOOD game, and it has no relations to the Playstation game at all. None of the characters are the same. If you want to see some movies of the arcade one my friend and I captured, contact me on ICQ... they're completely different games.


Oh really? I have never played the PSX game, I figured it was a port of the Hyper 64 game. Either way, I was severly unimpressed with the one I played, but I didn't give it much time.





Ultima
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"Re(7):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 12:43post reply


> The Samurai Spirits 64 Arcade game is a GOOD game, and it has no relations to the Playstation game at all. None of the characters are the same. If you want to see some movies of the arcade one my friend and I captured, contact me on ICQ... they're completely different games.

Completely different, and both completely crappy. I'd like to know what alternate-reality of SS64 *you* played, because the one *I* played was awful is just about every conceivable way: Awful graphics, awful framerate, awful control, awful hit-detection, awful gameplay. OKay, the artwork was really cool. Everything else was ass.

I never played SS64 II. All I heard was that it was *slighly* better than its predecessor, which doesn't say much.

> Oh really? I have never played the PSX game, I figured it was a port of the Hyper 64 game.

The PSX 3D SS game is New Chapter of Blade, aka Warrior's Rage II. Warrior's Rage I is SS 64 II. So the PSX game is a pseudo-sequel to the second arcade 3D SS game, not a port. It also did the impossible by being *worse* than SS64!

Whoever buys a HyperNeoGeo for the 5 or 6 pieces of shit games that are on it... well, you have more money than me I guess.

> Either way, I was severly unimpressed with the one I played, but I didn't give it much time.

As well as you should be.

Come to think of it, the only really good SS games are SS1 and SS2 (not counting the handheld versions). All the others had their varying degress of shittiness.





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Toxico
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"Re(1):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 17:35:post reply


quote:
I was wondering if it is fun.
how about a mini review anyone?



Breath taking story, cool cinemas, interaction between the characters are almost perfect... but gameplay leaves to be desired... I think of this game as a movie.... I just enjoy the game because I got SOO MUCH involved with the storylines...

A hidden cinema called "Let's go to the crime city" is one of my all time favourites cinema displays, neat stuff must I say.





[this message was edited by Toxico on Thu 6 Jun 18:56]

RugalBernstein
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"Re(8):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 17:49post reply


Hey, Ultima, who died and made YOU king, you freaking wanker? Go to hell! The first SS64 isn't great, but it certainly isn't " shitty " compared to many other fighters. I happen to own a HNG 64 board, AND SS64 2, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't insult me, although it seems hard for you to post without insulting somebody. You obviously consider everyone else's opinions inferior to yours. Oh, and I don't like SS2. SS 4 is my favorite in the series, I hardly consider it " shitty " . So there.





RugalBernstein
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"Re(7):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 17:51post reply


Yes, you can get HNG boards and games for fairly cheap. You don't need a cabinet, though. Shoot for one of these: Link Here





bootation
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"Re(8):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 18:46post reply


quote:
Yes, you can get HNG boards and games for fairly cheap. You don't need a cabinet, though. Shoot for one of these: Link Here



sweet dudes. thanks





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Juan
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"Re(8):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 19:07post reply


Come on Ultima be nice, you really dont have to only show up only to act like a butt monkey. It's not like we are gonna eat you or something.

Have a nice day.


quote:
> The Samurai Spirits 64 Arcade game is a GOOD game, and it has no relations to the Playstation game at all. None of the characters are the same. If you want to see some movies of the arcade one my friend and I captured, contact me on ICQ... they're completely different games.

Completely different, and both completely crappy. I'd like to know what alternate-reality of SS64 *you* played, because the one *I* played was awful is just about every conceivable way: Awful graphics, awful framerate, awful control, awful hit-detection, awful gameplay. OKay, the artwork was really cool. Everything else was ass.

I never played SS64 II. All I heard was that it was *slighly* better than its predecessor, which doesn't say much.

> Oh really? I have never played the PSX game, I figured it was a port of the Hyper 64 game.

The PSX 3D SS game is New Chapter of Blade, aka Warrior's Rage II. Warrior's Rage I is SS 64 II. So the PSX game is a pseudo-sequel to the second arcade 3D SS game, not a port. It also did the impossible by being *worse* than SS64!

Whoever buys a HyperNeoGeo for the 5 or 6 pieces of shit games that are on it... well, you have more money than me I guess.

> Either way, I was severly unimpressed with the one I played, but I didn't give it much time.

As well as you should be.

Come to think of it, the only really good SS games are SS1 and SS2 (not counting the handheld versions). All the others had their varying degress of shittiness.







Toxico
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"Re(9):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 19:13post reply


quote:
Come on Ultima be nice, you really dont have to only show up only to act like a butt monkey. It's not like we are gonna eat you or something.

Have a nice day.



Is that monkey comment related to the way I act??? Is it because I have show you powerless in the art of the dodge ball???

Anywy, let us keep things with low temperature, I like the coldness and politeness of the winter. ;P





HIDDEN WARRIOR
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"Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors rage?" , posted Sun 9 Jun 10:23post reply


rugaLbernstein,dont bother trying to convince the ignorent that the SS64 games were good.Let them continue being fools.Atleast we,the samurai shodown elite,know the truth of the matter.We are blessed above most other samurai shodown fans as is any samurai shodown fan that realized the greatness of the SS64 games.

it stems from ignorence really.They stick in a quarter or two and think they know how the game is and then form an opinion without actually understanding the games.Their loss.free will is wasted on them.

If ever snk decided to translate them for a console system,then everybody will see what the few and the proud already know about the SS64 games and these ignorent fools will have to eat their words as droves upon droves of old school samurai shodown fans finally get to play them.And wont they be surprised ^__^





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Ishmael
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"Re(2):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Sun 9 Jun 13:23post reply


quote:
rugaLbernstein,dont bother trying to convince the ignorent that the SS64 games were good.Let them continue being fools.Atleast we,the samurai shodown elite,know the truth of the matter.We are blessed above most other samurai shodown fans as is any samurai shodown fan that realized the greatness of the SS64 games.

it stems from ignorence really.They stick in a quarter or two and think they know how the game is and then form an opinion without actually understanding the games.Their loss.free will is wasted on them.

If ever snk decided to translate them for a console system,then everybody will see what the few and the proud already know about the SS64 games and these ignorent fools will have to eat their words as droves upon droves of old school samurai shodown fans finally get to play them.And wont they be surprised ^__^


Even after all this time I'm not sure I know what to think about SS64. How the heck were you supposed to play SS64 anyway? The stamina bar that would deplete every time you did a special attack or did something as simple as move around really sapped gameplay for me during the few times I tried it. Was I missing something when I played the game? The SS games have always moved at their own pace but, man, in SS64 the characters shuffled and staggered so much it was like they had drank too much cough syrup before the match.





HIDDEN WARRIOR
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"Re(3):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Sun 9 Jun 13:34:post reply


The "slowness" is just in your mind.The game is fast enough.Its as fast as SS2 and SS4 which werre the slowest of the series and even then none of the samurai shodown games were slow anyway.

The stamina meter kept people from being button mashers while the high-mid-low scheme kept players from turtling up all day.Its not that you missed something in the gameplay,its that it takes a while before you get the perfect balance of offense and defense in the 1st SS64 game.It requires that out of you which most samurai shodown fans coudnt handle,and what people cant understand they hate.Human nature.

SS64II is the best of the entire series with SSIV coming close.Take it from a true samurai shodown fan that has played them all(except the 2 neogeo pocket games and the PSX SS game).If a person calls himself a samurai shodown fan yet stopped playing after SSII then that person isnt a fan of the series and samurai shodown was just a fad for them.Fads fade,fans dont.Its like dragonball fans calling themselves anime fans when all they watch is dragonball.In both cases,their opinion is irelevent on the subject matter.





KAISER WAVE!!!

[this message was edited by HIDDEN WARRIOR on Sun 9 Jun 13:36]

RugalBernstein
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"Re(3):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Sun 9 Jun 17:33post reply


Yes, I'm talking about SS 64 2: Asura no Zanmaden, anyway. It's a GOOD game. The first SS 64 isn't bad, but it's flawed...





RaVeN1234
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"Re(4):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Sun 9 Jun 23:42post reply


I love the Movies in this , and TOXICO "Lets go to crime city rocks" ,, remember ?: what's ur name boy:
Boy:.....
TELL ME NOW!!:
boy: .....
GET HIM:


..
BAM BOOK SLASH........






Ultima
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"Re(4):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Mon 10 Jun 08:06post reply


To RugalBernstein:

This is a public forum. I have every right to not only post my opinion, but comment on those of others. Those who hide behind such nonsense as "it's my opinion, therefore you can't attack it" is living in a world of ignorance.

Now, I don't remember actually insulting anybody. Go back to your alternate reality where games like SS64 are somehow considered something other than "rubbish". The only good thing about SS64 (besides the art) is that it actually made SS3's gameplay look good.

Concerning your ownership of a HNG board, good for you. I'm glad to know you have money to burn. Most of us aren't that fortunate to waste money on hardware no one gives a shit about.

You like SS4? Well, it's kinda fun, as long as you *don't* know what you're doing. Then it gets really stupid. But even then, I find the game dull.

YOu're the first person I've ever heard who doesn't like SS2. Either a) you're too young to have played it when it first came out to understand its greatness, b) you've gotten you ass mudhole-stomped by better players and don't like it because you can't win, or c) in that freaky alternate reality you live in SS2 is somehow a worse game than SS4 (I assure you that such is NOT the case in the normal universe). Or perhaps it's d) all of the above.

To Hidden Warrior:

"Samurai Shodown elite"..? "Greatness of SS64 games"..? BWA HA HA HA HA HA..! That's hilarious stuff man. Keep it up.





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Bootation
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"Re(5):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Mon 10 Jun 09:08post reply


Dude i love Dragonball. I only watch it on international channel. I-channel is rad. I am wanting to watch spriggun and more lupin III.





RugalBernstein
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"Re(5):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Mon 10 Jun 17:13:post reply


Hey, I'm sick of you, you bloody wanker! You honestly just love to fight with people, don't you? Nobody likes to listen to your rude and insulting rants. You're nothing more than a troll! There's a BIG difference between constructive criticism ( I don't like something for :: insert valid reason here ) and mindless complaining. If you could be polite in expressing your opinions without insulting others, then it would be a different story! Get off your high horse, and realize you aren't the god of judgement, you fat-headed ass! And anyway, who are YOU to lecture me on " opinions " ? It's MY opinion that Asura no Zanmaden is a GOOD and underrated game! Your opinion is not " correct " by default!

Oh, and I know a LOT of people who prefer 4 to 2. So go and boil your head!!





[this message was edited by RugalBernstein on Mon 10 Jun 17:30]

Ultima
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"Re(6):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Tue 11 Jun 08:33post reply


> Hey, I'm sick of you, you bloody wanker! You honestly just love to fight with people, don't you? Nobody likes to listen to your rude and insulting rants. You're nothing more than a troll!

No, I don't like to fight. It can be a nice distraction, but only when the opponent is actually intelligent, rational, and can come up with replies more imaginative than "bloody wanker". Jesus, what are you, trying to be British? Truly pathetic (take note sunshine: NOW I'm insulting you).

> There's a BIG difference between constructive criticism ( I don't like something for :: insert valid reason here ) and mindless complaining.

Concerning SS64, what part of "bad graphics, bad framerate, bad control, bad hit detection and bad gameplay" DIDN'T you understand? Learn to read child.

> If you could be polite in expressing your opinions without insulting others, then it would be a different story!

Again, learn to read. I didn't actuallty insult you or anyone. Your taste and your opinion, perhaps, but that's different from attacking *you* personally. If you can't tell the difference, then I feel very sorry for you. It must be a lonely, confusing place in that alternate reality of yours.

> Get off your high horse, and realize you aren't the god of judgement, you fat-headed ass!

"Fat-headed ass". I think that's a step down from "bloody wanker". <Sagat>Try again, kid</Sagat>

> And anyway, who are YOU to lecture me on " opinions " ? It's MY opinion that Asura no Zanmaden is a GOOD and underrated game! Your opinion is not " correct " by default!

I admit to not knowing much about Asura Zanmaden because, as I said, I haven't played it. I only played the first (horrible) SS64 game. I haven't said anything about Zanmanden other than "from what I've heard, it was only slightly better than the first SS64, which isn't much". I have that from other SS fans whose opinions I trust (even when it's people I don't particularly like).

> Oh, and I know a LOT of people who prefer 4 to 2. So go and boil your head!!

So? 95% of people are stupid and wouldn't know good gameplay if it bit them in the ass. What's your point?





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RugalBernstein
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"Re(7):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Tue 11 Jun 09:00:post reply


Well, it's an excersise in futility to argue with somebody who has an ego of biblical proportions. But I'll say this: I can't recall you EVER contributing ANYTHING positive to this board, and I've admittedly disliked you for a LONG time. SO I guess you could say I've been holding a grudge, and this was just the " straw that broke the camel's back " . no? If you can't say something nice, SHUT UP.

Oh, and I am British, thank you. Tit. ^_^





[this message was edited by RugalBernstein on Tue 11 Jun 09:04]

HIDDEN WARRIOR
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"Re(8):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Tue 11 Jun 16:43post reply


I think its obvious to anyone,only ultima lives in an alternate reality.He seems to be an expert about living in alternate realities.So sad.I cant help people like you when you get like that.You wish to believe your delusions so badly,truth cant reach you.Your loss,not mine.

SS64 made SS3 gameplay look good?LOL
under that logic,SS2 made SS3 gameplay look great!It never seems to stop amazing me how poorly people think out their logic.Ask any samurai shodown veteran and all will tell you SS2 had the most gameplay flaws out of them all.It was the most unbalanced out of all samurai shodown games.Disagreeing with that means you are a fool :) care to disagree ultima?

SS4 was more fun when you learned how to play it.Why?Common sense.ANY game is more fun when you learn how to play it.Jeez,ultima please make it harder for me to catch your mistakes;your making it too easy.Did you ACTUALLY think that out?

Actually you did insult rugalberstein.Your weak attempts to justify your pettiness is very transparent to me.Here.I'll hold your hand so your not afraid as I walk you through it.

1)Those who hide behind such nonsense as "it's my opinion, therefore you can't attack it" is living in a world of ignorance.

remember this trash?I bet you do.You implied rugal was ignorent for not thinking like you do and for not believing the way things are like you do.Jeez,what ever happened to teaching children tolerence these days.Tisk tisk.

2)Now, I don't remember actually insulting anybody. Go back to your alternate reality where games like SS64 are somehow considered something other than "rubbish". The only good thing about SS64 (besides the art) is that it actually made SS3's gameplay look good.

wow.More junk.Here you imply that rugal lives in some dream world or a fantasy.You try to make his opnions invalid by making him seem crazy or out of it.Nice tactic but im SO much better then you at it :)
you also show us your ignorence about the samurai shodown series.If I had a dime for every person that thinks like you about said subject matter,I would be rich.Remember that 95% you spoke of later on...
There is no end to fools like you in this world.Lucky for us all im here to set fools like you straight.

3)Concerning your ownership of a HNG board, good for you. I'm glad to know you have money to burn. Most of us aren't that fortunate to waste money on hardware no one gives a shit about.

here you basically say rugal is a rich snob.How catty and jealos you sound.Its very pathetic and it allows me to see a weak point:your insecurity.

4)YOu're the first person I've ever heard who doesn't like SS2. Either a) you're too young to have played it when it first came out to understand its greatness, b) you've gotten you ass mudhole-stomped by better players and don't like it because you can't win, or c) in that freaky alternate reality you live in SS2 is somehow a worse game than SS4 (I assure you that such is NOT the case in the normal universe). Or perhaps it's d) all of the above.


OOoooo wow.I bet your expecting admiration and clapping from your fans in that alternate universe you live in.Here you imploy a combo.First you say hes probably nothing more then an ignorent kid who never got to play SSII.Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.OOoo and check this.Next you say hes a video game scrub is why he doesnt like SSII.Oh my god!hell hath no fury for someone who doesnt like SSII!Beware all yee out there!Ultima,god of all,opinion master of earth itself descrees if yee dont like SSII your all the above that he said(child,scrub,etc.)!......gimme a break.

But then you say "Now, I don't remember actually insulting anybody."

Hypocrite.Lier.Self deluded.Do understand that these arent insults towards you.They are acurate descriptions of your psyche,oh and I charge no fee :)

If your wondering about the smiles,its because I love love love debating.I really look forward to your reply.Take notice that to the untrained eye,you seem like someone with much to say,but your posts have little girth while mine are all grade 100% beef.I actually WRITE.You simply copy and paste.The diffrence betwen us is clear.Im a pro and your trying to be one.I...might take you on as my student but you will have to shape up better then you have.You know,try harder.Hopefully your retort will have more beef,although people usually do let you down...

You have it backwards ultima.Im the one looking down and you only think you are.Its actually you who will do the entertaining.A king does need a jester after all.

Rugalbernstein is correct in stating your not the god of judgement.I AM :)

you dont like fighting huh?Thats another difference between us.I revel in it.I indulge in verbal wars.Its my internet life blood.Whether its win,lose or draw,I enjoy the debate(what you call fighting and some call flaming).If you dont like fighting then you shoudnt start one.Contradiction on your part,ne?You shoudnt start things you cant finish.Didnt your mommy teach you that?I guess you never heard of me.LOL that mistake will cost you :)

you really shoudnt be prejudice against british people.Just cause he said wanker you gotta attack his heritage.Thats pretty low dont you think?
However I dought you would like a dose of the same.Care to expose your nationality to me so we can try the experiment?

ultima:um..*gulp* no thanks,sir...

HW:I thought so.

SS64 didnt have any of that "bad" stuff you mentioned.Its more of your infantile delusions and I implore all samurai shodown fans to ignore his little drama.

heres some incriminating evidence that you didnt cover up.Its the sign of an amatuar.

"No, I don't like to fight"
"Learn to read child. "
"Truly pathetic (take note sunshine: NOW I'm insulting you)."

now heres the kicker that really made me laugh.

"Again, learn to read. I didn't actuallty insult you or anyone. Your taste and your opinion, perhaps, but that's different from attacking *you* personally. If you can't tell the difference, then I feel very sorry for you. It must be a lonely, confusing place in that alternate reality of yours."

So many contridictions that I dont no where to begin.You seem to be stepping all over yourself making the most common mistakes.Insulting the persons opinion is indeed an insult.You could have given rugal some constuctive criticism like he asked but you went in with full barrels loaded.Trying to justify by saying that they were seperate was transparent.Did you think I woudnt catch you trying to justify yourself?You tried to split hairs.You tried to misplace blame away from yourself to avoid fault and wrong doing.I have you cornered and my rook is closing on your king.You state you "really havent insulted anyone" yet also say "take not sunshine:now im insulting you".You are just SO not worthy of my superior talents.To quote the hurricane:"wats up wit dat?!"

95% of people are stupid?You are for once absolutely right!We share this theory.One problem though,your part of that 95% while im the closest thing to being a god.to quote hardcore holly:"how do you like me now?"

Those 'trusted samurai shodown friends' are probably part of that 95% LOL talk about the blind leading the blind LOL :)

Rugalbernstein dont worry.Sometimes it takes a jerk to defeat a jerk-and im the bigger jerk with the bigger ego :)





KAISER WAVE!!!

justicekyo
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"Re(5):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Tue 11 Jun 17:15post reply


quote:
To RugalBernstein:

This is a public forum. I have every right to not only post my opinion, but comment on those of others. Those who hide behind such nonsense as "it's my opinion, therefore you can't attack it" is living in a world of ignorance.

Now, I don't remember actually insulting anybody. Go back to your alternate reality where games like SS64 are somehow considered something other than "rubbish". The only good thing about SS64 (besides the art) is that it actually made SS3's gameplay look good.

Concerning your ownership of a HNG board, good for you. I'm glad to know you have money to burn. Most of us aren't that fortunate to waste money on hardware no one gives a shit about.

You like SS4? Well, it's kinda fun, as long as you *don't* know what you're doing. Then it gets really stupid. But even then, I find the game dull.

YOu're the first person I've ever heard who doesn't like SS2. Either a) you're too young to have played it when it first came out to understand its greatness, b) you've gotten you ass mudhole-stomped by better players and don't like it because you can't win, or c) in that freaky alternate reality you live in SS2 is somehow a worse game than SS4 (I assure you that such is NOT the case in the normal universe). Or perhaps it's d) all of the above.

To Hidden Warrior:

"Samurai Shodown elite"..? "Greatness of SS64 games"..? BWA HA HA HA HA HA..! That's hilarious stuff man. Keep it up.



hmph... you're sickening... if i must say...





Ultima
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"Re(9):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warriors" , posted Tue 11 Jun 20:15post reply


To RugalBernstein:

Well, you didn't say anything particularly noteworthy ot intelligent, so I've nothing to say to you. I don't give a rat's ass about your "grudge" (LOL). I contribute to this board by NOT making 1000 posts, 995 of which are pointless blather. I only speak when something needs to be said, not out of necessity.

Some other jackass claimed:

> SS64 made SS3 gameplay look good?LOL
under that logic,SS2 made SS3 gameplay look great!

UhM, what? This makes no sense. SS2 was godly. SS3 was crap. SS64 was even WORSE crap. Talk sense please.

> Ask any samurai shodown veteran and all will tell you SS2 had the most gameplay flaws out of them all. It was the most unbalanced out of all samurai shodown games.Disagreeing with that means you are a fool :) care to disagree ultima?

Wow. What rubbish. Nice try and catching me in a trap there, but I will blatantly no-sell it and tell you flat out that you and your "veterans" have no clue what they're talking about.

SS2 was a near-perfect refinement of SS1, and the game had a style, atmosphere and flow that was on par with anything Capcom has ever produced (IMO SS2 is SNK's greatest game to date). It certainly wasn't perfect - Ukyo was ridiculously overpowered, and Nakoruru was somewhat underpowered - but it's still one of the most balanced games out there (note: Nakoruru beats Ukyo). While there are definite tiers, everyone other than the aforementioned two characters really falls into this giant middle-tier and everyone is quite competitive.

Now SNK has this near perfect creation, which no one would have faulted them for tweaking and refining further, and for no apparent reason fucked it up beyond recognition in SS3. They needlessly tampered with the control system, added the most ridiculous and stupid implementation of air-blocking I've ever seen, had some of the worst damage control (Haohmaru 2 hit death) since the original SF2, loosened up the combo system in such a way as to have a ton of ToDs, and seemed to have a semblance of "balance by making everyone overpowered", with stupid tactics galore. Oh yeah: The Slash/Bust system may have been a good idea on paper, but was quite lame in practice (this didn't get somewhat decent until Asura Zanmaden in fact). Terrible, terrible game.

Then along comes SS4. Now, SS4 corrected several of SS3's major faults, but the problem was that it built up on a shoddy foundation. They added such "wonderful" features like CD chain combos (aka Custom Combos), which led to a number of dumb infinites. But as I said, the game can be fun - IF you're not playing at a high level. At that point, you pretty much use 4 characters - Slash Nakoruru, Slash Sogetsu, Bust Tam Tam, Bust Amakusa, and nobody else (maybe Bust Jubei to counter Bust Tam Tam, but that's kinda iffy). Since I always strive for high-level play, if the game can't keep up, then there's no point playing the game. SS4 falls into this category. At the intermediate level, it's okay (though even *then*, I find it kinda dull after a while). At the high level, it just doesn't measure up.

SS64: I tried, but I just couldn't get into this. It was just too awful. I reiterate yet again: Bad graphics, bad framerate, bad controls, bad hit detection, bad gameplay. The first time I saw Bust (?) Kazuki's explosion DM hit me when I was a good two inches OUTSIDE the blast, I knew it was time to park this game up for good. Whatever redeeming(?) qualities the game had were not worth wading through the massive amount of sewage on top of it.

SS64II: Already talked about this. All I can say for sure is that the models still look like crap compared to other 3D games that came out at the time.

[crap deleted]

I said:

> > 1)Those who hide behind such nonsense as "it's my opinion, therefore you can't attack it" is living in a world of ignorance.

> remember this trash?I bet you do.

Of course. Because it's true.

> You implied rugal was ignorent for not thinking like you do and for not believing the way things are like you do.

Uhm, no. That's not what it says at all. What it says is that, just *because* you have an opinion, that doesn't mean it's somehow free from being commented on or attacked. That's ignorant and lazy, not to mention dangerous. If everyone was free to just say *anything* they wanted and claim that "it's my opinion", and no one could ever say anything bad about what was said, then you'd never get anywhere. Everyone would just be free to spout off any ol' nonsense and no useful or correct information would ever be propogated.

For example, if I said the world was flat, just because I can't see the curvature of the earth, I'd fully expect to be corrected/flamed. I couldn't claim "it's my opinion that the earth is flat" and thus be free from correction. That would be
preposterous.

[more crap deleted]

I would like to point ou that you talk a whole lot and say absolutely nothing. I cut out a whole wealth of text that was just useless blather. You're making this too easy.

Moving right along:

> > But then you say "Now, I don't remember actually insulting anybody."

> Hypocrite.Lier.Self deluded.Do understand that these arent insults towards you.They are acurate descriptions of your psyche,oh and I charge no fee :)

Bullshit. There's a difference between attacking someone, and attacking someone's opinion. Example:

"You're an idiot" - Me insulting you

"It's idiotic to think there's no such thing as tiers" - me insulting your opinion.

I started insulting RugalB in my last post because he insulted me first. I don't recall making any direct insults before that, but I guess those with soft shells might have gotten offended with things that I said. If so, then oh well. Sucks to be them. *shrugs*

> If your wondering about the smiles,its because I love love love debating.I really look forward to your reply.Take notice that to the untrained eye,you seem like someone with much to say,but your posts have little girth while mine are all grade 100% beef.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

That's even MORE hilarious than that funny thing (which I forget; something about a "true SS veteran") you mentioned last time! Omigod, that's too funny. 80% of your text is blather that's just not worth responding to.

> you dont like fighting huh?Thats another difference between us.I revel in it.

Too bad you're not any good at it.

[a whole lotta public mastubating deleted]

> you really shoudnt be prejudice against british people.Just cause he said wanker you gotta attack his heritage.Thats pretty low dont you think?

PLease re-read what I said. Nowhere did I say anything disparaging against the british. I have nothing against the british personally. It's just that only british and british-wannabes (minus a few exceptions) use the term "bloody wanker". If he's british, than I guess there's no real harm, though he could afford to try something else. It gets old fast.

And I'm from Trinidad, BTW. Do you even know where that is? Do you even care?

> SS64 didnt have any of that "bad" stuff you mentioned.

Yes it did. Is this getting us anywhere?

[MORE rubbish deleted]

Wow, what a longwinded, obfuscating diatribe that was. And most of it was a whole lot of nothing. You're really not good at this sort of thing, are you? Maybe you and Rugal should merge into one being or something a la DBZ. Maybe between the two of you, you can come up with a well-thought out, rational argument that isn't 90% filler.





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http://uramble.com/index.html - U's Rambling Page

Juan
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"Re(10):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warrior" , posted Tue 11 Jun 20:28post reply


Howdy Ultima.

It seems that your avatar is broken, not to worry, i made one for you.

http://www.angelfire.com/tx/carniceria/ultima.gif

Copy. Paste. Enjoy. :D





ONSLAUGHT
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"crap..." , posted Tue 11 Jun 20:32post reply


quote:
Maybe between the two of you, you can come up with a well-thought out, rational argument that isn't 90% filler.



Please Ultima, do us a favor and shut up...
You're always acting like an ass, there's a world of difference between giving constructive criticism and and acting like an ass just to be disliked by everyone...

You've insulted me before, and I didn't reply to you, because I prefer to ignore assholes like you, but this time you've gone too far, I think you should go to another forum, because your crap is not tolerated in here by most of the members...

[sarcasm]Oh, I forgot, you're Ultima, the owner of the universal truth! sorry for my ignorance [/sarcasm]





RugalBernstein
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"Re(10):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warrior" , posted Tue 11 Jun 20:33:post reply


Just ignore him. He's too full of himself to hold his tongue. I guess his mum didn't hug him enough when he was a child, and he tries to make up for his feelings of inadequacy by making an ass of himself.

Oh, and is it just me, or does anybody else get the feeling if this discussion had been on SS 2, he would have come on here claiming IT is " shit " , and that SS 3/4 is " godly " , or something? SS 2 is an okay game, but it smacks of " Street Fighter 2 with swords thrown in " . In my opinion, SS didn't really become a " game of its own " until SS 3, which was rather flawed... I get the impression he posts exclusively to disagree with whatever anybody is saying, regardless.

Oh, and one last thing, Ultima, in case you read this: Your recent post makes you come over strongly as a braggart. Also, you would be wise to listen to your own words on " opinions ", and not act like what you say is gospel. I may be quick to anger, and I don't always plan out my posts before I start yelling. But at least I don't think I'm god's gift to mankind. ^_^





[this message was edited by RugalBernstein on Tue 11 Jun 20:59]

Rid Hershel
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"Hummm... bootation?" , posted Tue 11 Jun 20:37:post reply


No offense, but could you delete this topic? It's the only way to stop this pointless discussion...

Thanks.





[this message was edited by Rid Hershel on Tue 11 Jun 20:42]

bootation
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"Re(1):Hummm... bootation?" , posted Tue 11 Jun 20:51post reply


quote:
No offense, but could you delete this topic? It's the only way to stop this pointless discussion...

Thanks.



no way im learning alot about the game. The bitching is sort strange and funny too.





HIDDEN WARRIOR
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"Re(10):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho warrior" , posted Tue 11 Jun 20:56post reply


how sad.I hate it when children dont learn their leasons quick.Now,as your parent I must discipline you.This will hurt you more then it it will hurt me.

SS2 WAS FAR FROM GODLY.What planet were you on?Better yet,how OFTEN did your mommy drop you on your head.Sure everyones entitled to an opinion,but yours is worth less then a penny *tosses the penny into the trash can*
jackass huh?Now now,wash your mouth out kiddo.This is a forum where little kids like you go to.Dont sully their eyes with your anger towards me.Control yourself.You dont see me using derogitory terms like "jackass" do you?Use me,your superior,as an example.

Tell you what,instead of bravado,why dont you defend SS2 against SS3.yOU POST UP PROS AND CONS ABOUT ss2 AND ILL DO THE SAME FOR ss3.aRE YOU GAME?cAn you back your 'tough talk'?Guess we will see.EN GARDE

Oh,and dont worry about rugalbernstein.He took the higher and more mature road then either of us.Cant at least you see that?I on the other hand prefer a dirty match.The only high road for me is the one on my throne as I overlook a boisterous child whining to me about some "SS2 IS BETTER!!" crap.

tHATS funny.You complained about rugal saying a british slang like wanker,but you open that paragraph with another famous british term 'rubbish'.Did you catch that?I know I did :)
The only rubbish is the kind spewing from that gaping maw you call a mouth.I speak truth while you cant defend.Its just more wasted bravado.You need a new plan.

SS2 was no where near perfect.The amount of work it took snk to make SS2 was less then the hard work obviously put into SS3.Till this day,3 still has the best backgrounds.What causes SS2 to fall from your delusional grace is its horrible gameplay.SS2 was mostly defense oriented.There was no overhead attacks,no switch sides move.It really had nothing to deter turtle players to dominate.It had useless standard moves for its game system.Where to begin.The small hop(B+C_ was near useless.A full jump with a incoming hard slash was 10 times more effective a defense against a low attack which was what the low hop was for.SNK saw this error and turned those into the overhead attacks that are in 3 and 4.Then theres the dodge move.A good idea but badly implemented.Down down was lacking in the initiative department and had to be 'dumb-downed'.Ofcourse snk realized this and did make them easier to do by 3.Then their are those useless dash and roll combinations.Snk realized that rolls ruined he gameplay and had to take them out immediatly.Its no fluke their gone,and their gone for good.Snk saw there usefulness in the kof series.They did NOT belong in samurai shodown.Lets see how many dash and roll combinations that I can remember that sucked.b=back,db-down back,f=forward,df=down forward

b,b,df-USELESS!
b,b,f-practically USELESS
f,f,df-USELESS!
f,f,db=USELESS!!
b,b,db=USELESS!!

IS IT ANY WONDER THIS GARBAGE IS GONE?!HELLO?!Mcfly?!

Please understand that I do love SS2 and all the others.

The combo system was VERY unbalanced.Some charecters were favored.Remember the cruch AB into kogetsuzan?Talk about unfair.Hahmaru could even go into his multi hitting kogetsuzan secret move.Thank god he could only cancel from a crouch AB in SS2.That little combo had a 50% of a redizzy.The overrall combo system was really sad.Hardly any two-in-ones/cancels.Most combos werre about 'jumping hard slash into standing hard slash'This meant that scrubs could rock in this game.Worse of all was that annoying huge slowdown which occured after a deep jumping hard slash.That crap snk took care of by 3.Thank god!

basically you had to play like SS1 cause all that new stuff(rolls,dash roll combos,low hop etc.) was badly implimented in SS2.Anyone who says they loved the SS2 gameplay really loves the SS1 gameplay.

What the hell was a referee doing?!Do you think he can stop mizuki from killing you just cause you beat her on time out?!It was sucxh a silly consept that snk decided to throw away kuroko.Afterall,the samujrai shodown series isnt a tournemt.TAheir is no need for a ref.Its an oversite that snk fixed by 3.Another gameplay flaw both 2 and 3 shared was the random bomb/food tossing by the edo express delivewry man.In a heated game of skill vs. skil,their was no need for random luck based advabtage.

All your left yop do was play SS2 like SS1 but with new moves,doll moves and super arts.

I'll be back tomorow to finish this.I'll edit to mispellings too.Abayo:) gotta go.
Not sure when Ill be back.Might be busy.You dont rank that important.Sorry.





KAISER WAVE!!!

Ultima
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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho w" , posted Wed 12 Jun 11:03post reply


[5 or so paragraphs of useless pontficating deleted]

> SS2 was no where near perfect.The amount of work it took snk to make SS2 was less then the hard work obviously put into SS3.

Debatable. BUt even so, that doesn't mean that the final product was shoddy as hell. Capcom put more effort into Super Sf2 than HF, but SSF2 was a much worse product.

> Till this day,3 still has the best backgrounds.

Irrelevent. I'm really only concerned about gameplay.

However, if you want to argue asthetics, I thought SS2's backgrounds were vastly superior. They weren't as colourful, but they were better designed and had far more interesting background elements. The SS3 backgrounds are pretty but empty.

Continuing with aesthetics, I prefer SS2 sprite artwork to SS3's. I also prefer all the sound-effects in SS2. This is ll quite subjective, so I'll stop here.

> What causes SS2 to fall from your delusional grace is its horrible gameplay. SS2 was mostly defense oriented. There was no overhead attacks,no switch sides move. It really had nothing to deter turtle players to dominate.

You're right in that it was defensive-oriented. That's how the game was designed. There was nothing wrong it. The game was conceived to be very patient and strategic. You ever see any of the "Samurai" movies? The ending fight between Musashi and Kojiro (the two characters whom Haohmaru and Ukyo are based on) is what SS1/SS2 tried to emulate - two highly skilled opponents trying to find the slightest opening and taking the fullest advantage of it.

However, with the possible exception of turtle Ukyo, who just plain unstoppable, there were ways of characters to get in on others. Characters like Gen-an, Charlotte, Kyoshiro, Galford, Hanzo, and Cham Cham were good at forcing mistakes. Dash -> throw is one of the most powerful techniques in the game.

> It had useless standard moves for its game system. Where to begin. The small hop(B+C_ was near useless.

True. It was the predecessor to the short-jump, which was better implented in the KoF series.

> SNK saw this error and turned those into the overhead attacks that are in 3 and 4.

I think it was more a pre-cursor to the short jump myself, but the universal overhead is an equal possibility. The overheads were a good idea, but the universal-ness helped homogenize SS3 (more on this later).

> Then theres the dodge move.A good idea but badly implemented. Down down was lacking in the initiative department and had to be 'dumb-downed'.

Huh? Are you saying they were dumbed down in SS2?

Dodges had little effect on SS2's gameplay. I didn't see this as a bad thing, actually. Dodges are for people who don't like to think how to set-up/avoid moves.

> Of course snk realized this and did make them easier to do by 3.

Now here is where they were indeed "dumbed down" by making them stupidly easy to do and overpowered. The dodges were superfluous in SS2, but at least they didn't cause Ukyo to do [dodge/side-step] -> 50% damage dizzy combos.

> Then their are those useless dash and roll combinations. Snk realized that rolls ruined he gameplay and had to take them out immediatly. Its no fluke their gone,and their gone for good.

And yet, rolls returned (in much better form) in the KoF series. So much for that theory.

And in fact, they were modified from SS2 because they were too *good*, not because they were useless. Dashing at someone, rolling through their counter-attack, and then throwing them was quite insidious. Great against turtles (though you could reverse throw if you timed it right). What were you saying about turtles again?

> Snk saw there usefulness in the kof series.They did NOT belong in samurai shodown.

Why not?

> Lets see how many dash and roll combinations that I can remember that sucked.b=back,db-down back,f=forward,df=down forward

> b,b,df-USELESS!

True. It's the pre-cursor to backroll. It had to start somewhere.

> b,b,f-practically USELESS

Decent fake-out. Good for dashing out of the way of an attack/jump-in, then running in for a throw.

> f,f,df-USELESS!

See above. Dash, roll through attack, throw. Good stuff. Made Galford/Hanzo really dangerous with dash -> roll -> SPD.

> f,f,db=USELESS!!
> b,b,db=USELESS!!

I'll agree with these two.

> IS IT ANY WONDER THIS GARBAGE IS GONE?!HELLO?!Mcfly?!

PLease. All you've stated is that some of the other features of the game weren't that great. Since these features had little to no effect on the solid core gameplay, they really do nothing for your argument.

> The combo system was VERY unbalanced. Some charecters were favored. Remember the cruch AB into kogetsuzan? Talk about unfair.

Why was it unfair? Haohmaru's low AB was slow was hell. Your opponent had to do a GIGANTIC mistake for you to land it.

> Hahmaru could even go into his multi hitting kogetsuzan secret move.

Yeah. This took actual skill to pull off, and again, your opponent had to make a gigantic mistake to pull it off.

Compare this to, say, a Nakoruru ToD in SS3: Low AB, AB Lela-Mutsube. 5 or 6 hits, 50% damage and a dizzy. Only you didn' have as good a defense in SS3, so it was a lot easier to pull off more often. This is progress?

You're right in that the combo system didn't favour everybody equally. But what game does this? In every game, there's ALWAYS going to be someone with better combos than others. You have no point here.

> Thank god he could only cancel from a crouch AB in SS2.

*shrug* If you want damage, he could do more reliable damage with jumping CD, far standing AB. But who used to jump forward in SS2?

Also, technically he could cancel off other moves in SS2: low A, low C, standing C. The thing was that his specials were too slow too connect after them.

> That little combo had a 50% of a redizzy.

As opposed to 100% chance of redizzy for Nakky in SS3.

I've never seen that combo redizzy, BTW. Dizzy yes, but again, your opponent would have to hav made one colossal fuck up fo you to land it on a non-dizzy opponent.

> The overrall combo system was really sad. Hardly any two-in-ones/cancels.

It had quite a few links though. Haohmaru's low c, low B and Galford/Hanzo's low C, low C, standing B were great.

I agree with the 2-in-1s. BUt SS was not designed originally to be a combo-intenstive game. They forced that issue in SS3, and the results were disastrous IMO.

> Most combos werre about 'jumping hard slash into standing hard slash'This meant that scrubs could rock in this game.

You must be joking. SS2 is very scrub UNFRIENDLY game. Hell, the only character who could jump freely was Ukyo. I'd like to see you pull off jumping AB, crouching Ab against competition who's awake. I mean, what's to stop me from blocking it? Walking/dashing underneathe and hitting you from behind? Dashing back then running in and throwing you when you land? You have no idea what you're talking about.

> Worse of all was that annoying huge slowdown which occured after a deep jumping hard slash.

The enormous hit stun was to prevent potential repeat abuse of the moves that did a lot of damage, and to give the attacked opponent some breathing room. In addition, it was meant to show the severity of the hit. When you hit someone with a full on staning AB with Genjuro in SS2, that thing looked like it HURT. You just don't get this impression in SS3/SS4.

> That crap snk took care of by 3.Thank god!

It took away from the style. And if SS3 had SS2 type hit-stun, it would probably had had a lot fewer ToD combos.

> basically you had to play like SS1 cause all that new stuff(rolls,dash roll combos,low hop etc.) was badly implimented in SS2.

In a sense. As I said, SS2 was a near perfect refinement of SS1, improving on it in all areas. But the badly implemented stuff in SS2 didn't detract from the gameplay, as oppose to all the crap in SS3 which helped make it worse.

> Anyone who says they loved the SS2 gameplay really loves the SS1 gameplay.

And this is a bad thing?

> What the hell was a referee doing?!Do you think he can stop mizuki from killing you just cause you beat her on time out?! It was sucxh a silly consept that snk decided to throw away kuroko.

Actually, they did away with Kuroko because they were lazy. It's the same reason why they had the lazy static backgrounds, and why instead of designing more new characters, they took old characters, added a number of special moves, and split them in two. It's also why they reduced the number of moves per character, and had fewer characters in SS3 than in SS2 (they had more frames of animation, but I think the total artwork for SS2's 15 characters is greater than SS3's 11 - someone feel free to prove me wrong there).

Also: You can beat Zankuro by time out as well. As well as in every other fighitng game with a timer. Are all other fighitng games (including SS3) silly now?

> Afterall,the samujrai shodown series isnt a tournemt.TAheir is no need for a ref.Its an oversite that snk fixed by 3.

Laziness. The referee was one of the most unique and original aspects to SS1/2. It's not my fault if you didn't understand his historical and cultural significance (for those who don't know, he's from Kabuki theatre, and you're supposed to pretend he's not there; if the game has a fighting kabuki, there's no reason why they can't have the kabuki theatre black stage-hand as a referee). And even so, Kuroko is STILL in the game, only now instead of being a really badass hidden boss with his own moves (even if most of them are ripped off rom other SNK characters), he now morphs into your own character. MORE laziness on SNK's part.

> Another gameplay flaw both 2 and 3 shared was the random bomb/food tossing by the edo express delivewry man.In a heated game of skill vs. skil,their was no need for random luck based advabtage.

It was part of the game. Another part of its uniqueness. Same thing with the random bombs and the random damage modifiers (why sometimes a brutal hard slash would do more [or occasionally less] damage than normal). I would hardly call it a gameplay flaw, since it didn't detract from either game's core gameplay. Against skilled competition, you could win maybe ONE match out of 100 due to the "luck" of getting a lot of meat.

> All your left you do was play SS2 like SS1 but with new moves,doll moves and super arts.

The doll moves and supers were kinda superfluous as well, actually. They added to the strategy, but I can't think of anyone who had a relly *great* super, since most of them were generally so easy to block. You could do a couple pixels of free damage with Haohmaru's and Charlotte's, but that's about it. Still, they had the purpose of breaking an opponent's weapon, putting your opponent (except for Galford and maybe Hanzo) at a severe disadvantage, making them quite worthwhile to pull off. Compare this to supers in SS3, which were nothing more than combo enders. Yeah, you made your opponent lose your weapon (a strategic element that was lost in SS4), but aside from combos, there was no *real* reward for pulling them off, since normal moves did SO much damage. Why do I need a 50% damage super when one combo, or occasionally one good C hit will do the trick?

Now, try and defend SS3's implementation of air-blocking, by far the WORST example of air-blocking ever implemented. IIRC, You could air EVERYTHING, no questions asked. Talk about mindless jumping. Furthermore, you could counter-attack after air-blocking. Thi characters with air-throws a nasty option select: If your opponent jumps, jump at them holding back. If they do nothing, air throw. If hey attack, air-block, then hit C. Free damage for you either way. Absolutely stupid. SNK couldn't get rid of this fast enough.

Then there was the individual character tactics. Never have I seen a game like SS3 in which just about every character seemed to have some really DUMB tactics that worked(though I guess CvS2 comes close). From Haohmaru's 2 hit death, to [Slash] Nakoruru's re-dizzies and unstoppable rushdown and free jumps, to Bust Ukyo side-step 50% damage ToDs, to Gaira's "strategy" of "block everything, hit C", it was just a big mess.

Add to that the overall INSANE damage control, the unnecessarily fast timer (10 seconds left in SS2 was a lifetime; 20 seconds left in SS3 means the round is over) and he really lame guard-crush. What was wrong with throws? SS1/SS2 had some of the coolest throws ever, and they were quite good in SS2. Why did they get rid of them? Probably to appease some throw-whining scrubs - didn't KI1 (proof of why listening to scrubs when making a game is a VERY BAD IDEA) come out somewhere around this time? And yet, we got guard-crushed that, against some characters, left you open to free 35% damage low C. Who thought that this was a GOOD idea?

Plus, the new control scheme blows. Kicks were useful and strategic in SS2. Kicks were an after thought in SS3+. I'm sure you'll counter with the incredibly predictable "but it's a WEAPONS game and they should be using weapons", but their was balance in SS1/2. You used kicks for positioning and harassing, and you used the slashes for big damage. Changing the button scheme reduced the moveset for every character (laziness), and it dumbed down the gameplay.

SS3 was lacking in the gameplay department no matter how you look at it. It had some good ideas (like the overheads, though I would have preferred unique overheads for every character), and it did improve on SS2 in a few areas (faster game speed and slightly better control), but the GIGANTIC flaws pretty ruined the game. These flaws were (mostly) corrected in SS4, but they didn't bring back any of the stuff that made SS2 so good. SS4 has its own problems, which I won't go into at this point. This post is long enouh already.

Anyway, I'm glad you went into the actual gameplay aspects of the game. Too bad you were about 95% wrong, but it's a start. Now if you can lay off the initial posturing that no one (inclduing me) gives a shit about, maybe we can get somewhere.





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chainsawyak
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"Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho w" , posted Wed 12 Jun 11:47post reply


quote:
[5 or so paragraphs of useless pontficating deleted]

> SS2 was no where near perfect.The amount of work it took snk to make SS2 was less then the hard work obviously put into SS3.

Debatable. BUt even so, that doesn't mean that the final product was shoddy as hell. Capcom put more effort into Super Sf2 than HF, but SSF2 was a much worse product.

> Till this day,3 still has the best backgrounds.

Irrelevent. I'm really only concerned about gameplay.

However, if you want to argue asthetics, I thought SS2's backgrounds were vastly superior. They weren't as colourful, but they were better designed and had far more interesting background elements. The SS3 backgrounds are pretty but empty.

Continuing with aesthetics, I prefer SS2 sprite artwork to SS3's. I also prefer all the sound-effects in SS2. This is ll quite subjective, so I'll stop here.

> What causes SS2 to fall from your delusional grace is its horrible gameplay. SS2 was mostly defense oriented. There was no overhead attacks,no switch sides move. It really had nothing to deter turtle players to dominate.

You're right in that it was defensive-oriented. That's how the game was designed. There was nothing wrong it. The game was conceived to be very patient and strategic. You ever see any of the "Samurai" movies? The ending fight between Musashi and Kojiro (the two characters whom Haohmaru and Ukyo are based on) is what SS1/SS2 tried to emulate - two highly skilled opponents trying to find the slightest opening and taking the fullest advantage of it.

However, with the possible exception of turtle Ukyo, who just plain unstoppable, there were ways of characters to get in on others. Characters like Gen-an, Charlotte, Kyoshiro, Galford, Hanzo, and Cham Cham were good at forcing mistakes. Dash -> throw is one of the most powerful techniques in the game.

> It had useless standard moves for its game system. Where to begin. The small hop(B+C_ was near useless.

True. It was the predecessor to the short-jump, which was better implented in the KoF series.

> SNK saw this error and turned those into the overhead attacks that are in 3 and 4.

I think it was more a pre-cursor to the short jump myself, but the universal overhead is an equal possibility. The overheads were a good idea, but the universal-ness helped homogenize SS3 (more on this later).

> Then theres the dodge move.A good idea but badly implemented. Down down was lacking in the initiative department and had to be 'dumb-downed'.

Huh? Are you saying they were dumbed down in SS2?

Dodges had little effect on SS2's gameplay. I didn't see this as a bad thing, actually. Dodges are for people who don't like to think how to set-up/avoid moves.

> Of course snk realized this and did make them easier to do by 3.

Now here is where they were indeed "dumbed down" by making them stupidly easy to do and overpowered. The dodges were superfluous in SS2, but at least they didn't cause Ukyo to do [dodge/side-step] -> 50% damage dizzy combos.

> Then their are those useless dash and roll combinations. Snk realized that rolls ruined he gameplay and had to take them out immediatly. Its no fluke their gone,and their gone for good.

And yet, rolls returned (in much better form) in the KoF series. So much for that theory.

And in fact, they were modified from SS2 because they were too *good*, not because they were useless. Dashing at someone, rolling through their counter-attack, and then throwing them was quite insidious. Great against turtles (though you could reverse throw if you timed it right). What were you saying about turtles again?

> Snk saw there usefulness in the kof series.They did NOT belong in samurai shodown.

Why not?

> Lets see how many dash and roll combinations that I can remember that sucked.b=back,db-down back,f=forward,df=down forward

> b,b,df-USELESS!

True. It's the pre-cursor to backroll. It had to start somewhere.

> b,b,f-practically USELESS

Decent fake-out. Good for dashing out of the way of an attack/jump-in, then running in for a throw.

> f,f,df-USELESS!

See above. Dash, roll through attack, throw. Good stuff. Made Galford/Hanzo really dangerous with dash -> roll -> SPD.

> f,f,db=USELESS!!
> b,b,db=USELESS!!

I'll agree with these two.

> IS IT ANY WONDER THIS GARBAGE IS GONE?!HELLO?!Mcfly?!

PLease. All you've stated is that some of the other features of the game weren't that great. Since these features had little to no effect on the solid core gameplay, they really do nothing for your argument.

> The combo system was VERY unbalanced. Some charecters were favored. Remember the cruch AB into kogetsuzan? Talk about unfair.

Why was it unfair? Haohmaru's low AB was slow was hell. Your opponent had to do a GIGANTIC mistake for you to land it.

> Hahmaru could even go into his multi hitting kogetsuzan secret move.

Yeah. This took actual skill to pull off, and again, your opponent had to make a gigantic mistake to pull it off.

Compare this to, say, a Nakoruru ToD in SS3: Low AB, AB Lela-Mutsube. 5 or 6 hits, 50% damage and a dizzy. Only you didn' have as good a defense in SS3, so it was a lot easier to pull off more often. This is progress?

You're right in that the combo system didn't favour everybody equally. But what game does this? In every game, there's ALWAYS going to be someone with better combos than others. You have no point here.

> Thank god he could only cancel from a crouch AB in SS2.

*shrug* If you want damage, he could do more reliable damage with jumping CD, far standing AB. But who used to jump forward in SS2?

Also, technically he could cancel off other moves in SS2: low A, low C, standing C. The thing was that his specials were too slow too connect after them.

> That little combo had a 50% of a redizzy.

As opposed to 100% chance of redizzy for Nakky in SS3.

I've never seen that combo redizzy, BTW. Dizzy yes, but again, your opponent would have to hav made one colossal fuck up fo you to land it on a non-dizzy opponent.

> The overrall combo system was really sad. Hardly any two-in-ones/cancels.

It had quite a few links though. Haohmaru's low c, low B and Galford/Hanzo's low C, low C, standing B were great.

I agree with the 2-in-1s. BUt SS was not designed originally to be a combo-intenstive game. They forced that issue in SS3, and the results were disastrous IMO.

> Most combos werre about 'jumping hard slash into standing hard slash'This meant that scrubs could rock in this game.

You must be joking. SS2 is very scrub UNFRIENDLY game. Hell, the only character who could jump freely was Ukyo. I'd like to see you pull off jumping AB, crouching Ab against competition who's awake. I mean, what's to stop me from blocking it? Walking/dashing underneathe and hitting you from behind? Dashing back then running in and throwing you when you land? You have no idea what you're talking about.

> Worse of all was that annoying huge slowdown which occured after a deep jumping hard slash.

The enormous hit stun was to prevent potential repeat abuse of the moves that did a lot of damage, and to give the attacked opponent some breathing room. In addition, it was meant to show the severity of the hit. When you hit someone with a full on staning AB with Genjuro in SS2, that thing looked like it HURT. You just don't get this impression in SS3/SS4.

> That crap snk took care of by 3.Thank god!

It took away from the style. And if SS3 had SS2 type hit-stun, it would probably had had a lot fewer ToD combos.

> basically you had to play like SS1 cause all that new stuff(rolls,dash roll combos,low hop etc.) was badly implimented in SS2.

In a sense. As I said, SS2 was a near perfect refinement of SS1, improving on it in all areas. But the badly implemented stuff in SS2 didn't detract from the gameplay, as oppose to all the crap in SS3 which helped make it worse.

> Anyone who says they loved the SS2 gameplay really loves the SS1 gameplay.

And this is a bad thing?

> What the hell was a referee doing?!Do you think he can stop mizuki from killing you just cause you beat her on time out?! It was sucxh a silly consept that snk decided to throw away kuroko.

Actually, they did away with Kuroko because they were lazy. It's the same reason why they had the lazy static backgrounds, and why instead of designing more new characters, they took old characters, added a number of special moves, and split them in two. It's also why they reduced the number of moves per character, and had fewer characters in SS3 than in SS2 (they had more frames of animation, but I think the total artwork for SS2's 15 characters is greater than SS3's 11 - someone feel free to prove me wrong there).

Also: You can beat Zankuro by time out as well. As well as in every other fighitng game with a timer. Are all other fighitng games (including SS3) silly now?

> Afterall,the samujrai shodown series isnt a tournemt.TAheir is no need for a ref.Its an oversite that snk fixed by 3.

Laziness. The referee was one of the most unique and original aspects to SS1/2. It's not my fault if you didn't understand his historical and cultural significance (for those who don't know, he's from Kabuki theatre, and you're supposed to pretend he's not there; if the game has a fighting kabuki, there's no reason why they can't have the kabuki theatre black stage-hand as a referee). And even so, Kuroko is STILL in the game, only now instead of being a really badass hidden boss with his own moves (even if most of them are ripped off rom other SNK characters), he now morphs into your own character. MORE laziness on SNK's part.

> Another gameplay flaw both 2 and 3 shared was the random bomb/food tossing by the edo express delivewry man.In a heated game of skill vs. skil,their was no need for random luck based advabtage.

It was part of the game. Another part of its uniqueness. Same thing with the random bombs and the random damage modifiers (why sometimes a brutal hard slash would do more [or occasionally less] damage than normal). I would hardly call it a gameplay flaw, since it didn't detract from either game's core gameplay. Against skilled competition, you could win maybe ONE match out of 100 due to the "luck" of getting a lot of meat.

> All your left you do was play SS2 like SS1 but with new moves,doll moves and super arts.

The doll moves and supers were kinda superfluous as well, actually. They added to the strategy, but I can't think of anyone who had a relly *great* super, since most of them were generally so easy to block. You could do a couple pixels of free damage with Haohmaru's and Charlotte's, but that's about it. Still, they had the purpose of breaking an opponent's weapon, putting your opponent (except for Galford and maybe Hanzo) at a severe disadvantage, making them quite worthwhile to pull off. Compare this to supers in SS3, which were nothing more than combo enders. Yeah, you made your opponent lose your weapon (a strategic element that was lost in SS4), but aside from combos, there was no *real* reward for pulling them off, since normal moves did SO much damage. Why do I need a 50% damage super when one combo, or occasionally one good C hit will do the trick?

Now, try and defend SS3's implementation of air-blocking, by far the WORST example of air-blocking ever implemented. IIRC, You could air EVERYTHING, no questions asked. Talk about mindless jumping. Furthermore, you could counter-attack after air-blocking. Thi characters with air-throws a nasty option select: If your opponent jumps, jump at them holding back. If they do nothing, air throw. If hey attack, air-block, then hit C. Free damage for you either way. Absolutely stupid. SNK couldn't get rid of this fast enough.

Then there was the individual character tactics. Never have I seen a game like SS3 in which just about every character seemed to have some really DUMB tactics that worked(though I guess CvS2 comes close). From Haohmaru's 2 hit death, to [Slash] Nakoruru's re-dizzies and unstoppable rushdown and free jumps, to Bust Ukyo side-step 50% damage ToDs, to Gaira's "strategy" of "block everything, hit C", it was just a big mess.

Add to that the overall INSANE damage control, the unnecessarily fast timer (10 seconds left in SS2 was a lifetime; 20 seconds left in SS3 means the round is over) and he really lame guard-crush. What was wrong with throws? SS1/SS2 had some of the coolest throws ever, and they were quite good in SS2. Why did they get rid of them? Probably to appease some throw-whining scrubs - didn't KI1 (proof of why listening to scrubs when making a game is a VERY BAD IDEA) come out somewhere around this time? And yet, we got guard-crushed that, against some characters, left you open to free 35% damage low C. Who thought that this was a GOOD idea?

Plus, the new control scheme blows. Kicks were useful and strategic in SS2. Kicks were an after thought in SS3+. I'm sure you'll counter with the incredibly predictable "but it's a WEAPONS game and they should be using weapons", but their was balance in SS1/2. You used kicks for positioning and harassing, and you used the slashes for big damage. Changing the button scheme reduced the moveset for every character (laziness), and it dumbed down the gameplay.

SS3 was lacking in the gameplay department no matter how you look at it. It had some good ideas (like the overheads, though I would have preferred unique overheads for every character), and it did improve on SS2 in a few areas (faster game speed and slightly better control), but the GIGANTIC flaws pretty ruined the game. These flaws were (mostly) corrected in SS4, but they didn't bring back any of the stuff that made SS2 so good. SS4 has its own problems, which I won't go into at this point. This post is long enouh already.

Anyway, I'm glad you went into the actual gameplay aspects of the game. Too bad you were about 95% wrong, but it's a start. Now if you can lay off the initial posturing that no one (inclduing me) gives a shit about, maybe we can get somewhere.



Moo.

SS2 makes SS64 look like Ernest Saves Christmas.

I am become baked squid.





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"Re(3):Re(10):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho w" , posted Wed 12 Jun 12:18post reply


quote:
[5 or so paragraphs of useless pontficating deleted]

> SS2 was no where near perfect.The amount of work it took snk to make SS2 was less then the hard work obviously put into SS3.

Debatable. BUt even so, that doesn't mean that the final product was shoddy as hell. Capcom put more effort into Super Sf2 than HF, but SSF2 was a much worse product.

> Till this day,3 still has the best backgrounds.

Irrelevent. I'm really only concerned about gameplay.

However, if you want to argue asthetics, I thought SS2's backgrounds were vastly superior. They weren't as colourful, but they were better designed and had far more interesting background elements. The SS3 backgrounds are pretty but empty.

Continuing with aesthetics, I prefer SS2 sprite artwork to SS3's. I also prefer all the sound-effects in SS2. This is ll quite subjective, so I'll stop here.

> What causes SS2 to fall from your delusional grace is its horrible gameplay. SS2 was mostly defense oriented. There was no overhead attacks,no switch sides move. It really had nothing to deter turtle players to dominate.

You're right in that it was defensive-oriented. That's how the game was designed. There was nothing wrong it. The game was conceived to be very patient and strategic. You ever see any of the "Samurai" movies? The ending fight between Musashi and Kojiro (the two characters whom Haohmaru and Ukyo are based on) is what SS1/SS2 tried to emulate - two highly skilled opponents trying to find the slightest opening and taking the fullest advantage of it.

However, with the possible exception of turtle Ukyo, who just plain unstoppable, there were ways of characters to get in on others. Characters like Gen-an, Charlotte, Kyoshiro, Galford, Hanzo, and Cham Cham were good at forcing mistakes. Dash -> throw is one of the most powerful techniques in the game.

> It had useless standard moves for its game system. Where to begin. The small hop(B+C_ was near useless.

True. It was the predecessor to the short-jump, which was better implented in the KoF series.

> SNK saw this error and turned those into the overhead attacks that are in 3 and 4.

I think it was more a pre-cursor to the short jump myself, but the universal overhead is an equal possibility. The overheads were a good idea, but the universal-ness helped homogenize SS3 (more on this later).

> Then theres the dodge move.A good idea but badly implemented. Down down was lacking in the initiative department and had to be 'dumb-downed'.

Huh? Are you saying they were dumbed down in SS2?

Dodges had little effect on SS2's gameplay. I didn't see this as a bad thing, actually. Dodges are for people who don't like to think how to set-up/avoid moves.

> Of course snk realized this and did make them easier to do by 3.

Now here is where they were indeed "dumbed down" by making them stupidly easy to do and overpowered. The dodges were superfluous in SS2, but at least they didn't cause Ukyo to do [dodge/side-step] -> 50% damage dizzy combos.

> Then their are those useless dash and roll combinations. Snk realized that rolls ruined he gameplay and had to take them out immediatly. Its no fluke their gone,and their gone for good.

And yet, rolls returned (in much better form) in the KoF series. So much for that theory.

And in fact, they were modified from SS2 because they were too *good*, not because they were useless. Dashing at someone, rolling through their counter-attack, and then throwing them was quite insidious. Great against turtles (though you could reverse throw if you timed it right). What were you saying about turtles again?

> Snk saw there usefulness in the kof series.They did NOT belong in samurai shodown.

Why not?

> Lets see how many dash and roll combinations that I can remember that sucked.b=back,db-down back,f=forward,df=down forward

> b,b,df-USELESS!

True. It's the pre-cursor to backroll. It had to start somewhere.

> b,b,f-practically USELESS

Decent fake-out. Good for dashing out of the way of an attack/jump-in, then running in for a throw.

> f,f,df-USELESS!

See above. Dash, roll through attack, throw. Good stuff. Made Galford/Hanzo really dangerous with dash -> roll -> SPD.

> f,f,db=USELESS!!
> b,b,db=USELESS!!

I'll agree with these two.

> IS IT ANY WONDER THIS GARBAGE IS GONE?!HELLO?!Mcfly?!

PLease. All you've stated is that some of the other features of the game weren't that great. Since these features had little to no effect on the solid core gameplay, they really do nothing for your argument.

> The combo system was VERY unbalanced. Some charecters were favored. Remember the cruch AB into kogetsuzan? Talk about unfair.

Why was it unfair? Haohmaru's low AB was slow was hell. Your opponent had to do a GIGANTIC mistake for you to land it.

> Hahmaru could even go into his multi hitting kogetsuzan secret move.

Yeah. This took actual skill to pull off, and again, your opponent had to make a gigantic mistake to pull it off.

Compare this to, say, a Nakoruru ToD in SS3: Low AB, AB Lela-Mutsube. 5 or 6 hits, 50% damage and a dizzy. Only you didn' have as good a defense in SS3, so it was a lot easier to pull off more often. This is progress?

You're right in that the combo system didn't favour everybody equally. But what game does this? In every game, there's ALWAYS going to be someone with better combos than others. You have no point here.

> Thank god he could only cancel from a crouch AB in SS2.

*shrug* If you want damage, he could do more reliable damage with jumping CD, far standing AB. But who used to jump forward in SS2?

Also, technically he could cancel off other moves in SS2: low A, low C, standing C. The thing was that his specials were too slow too connect after them.

> That little combo had a 50% of a redizzy.

As opposed to 100% chance of redizzy for Nakky in SS3.

I've never seen that combo redizzy, BTW. Dizzy yes, but again, your opponent would have to hav made one colossal fuck up fo you to land it on a non-dizzy opponent.

> The overrall combo system was really sad. Hardly any two-in-ones/cancels.

It had quite a few links though. Haohmaru's low c, low B and Galford/Hanzo's low C, low C, standing B were great.

I agree with the 2-in-1s. BUt SS was not designed originally to be a combo-intenstive game. They forced that issue in SS3, and the results were disastrous IMO.

> Most combos werre about 'jumping hard slash into standing hard slash'This meant that scrubs could rock in this game.

You must be joking. SS2 is very scrub UNFRIENDLY game. Hell, the only character who could jump freely was Ukyo. I'd like to see you pull off jumping AB, crouching Ab against competition who's awake. I mean, what's to stop me from blocking it? Walking/dashing underneathe and hitting you from behind? Dashing back then running in and throwing you when you land? You have no idea what you're talking about.

> Worse of all was that annoying huge slowdown which occured after a deep jumping hard slash.

The enormous hit stun was to prevent potential repeat abuse of the moves that did a lot of damage, and to give the attacked opponent some breathing room. In addition, it was meant to show the severity of the hit. When you hit someone with a full on staning AB with Genjuro in SS2, that thing looked like it HURT. You just don't get this impression in SS3/SS4.

> That crap snk took care of by 3.Thank god!

It took away from the style. And if SS3 had SS2 type hit-stun, it would probably had had a lot fewer ToD combos.

> basically you had to play like SS1 cause all that new stuff(rolls,dash roll combos,low hop etc.) was badly implimented in SS2.

In a sense. As I said, SS2 was a near perfect refinement of SS1, improving on it in all areas. But the badly implemented stuff in SS2 didn't detract from the gameplay, as oppose to all the crap in SS3 which helped make it worse.

> Anyone who says they loved the SS2 gameplay really loves the SS1 gameplay.

And this is a bad thing?

> What the hell was a referee doing?!Do you think he can stop mizuki from killing you just cause you beat her on time out?! It was sucxh a silly consept that snk decided to throw away kuroko.

Actually, they did away with Kuroko because they were lazy. It's the same reason why they had the lazy static backgrounds, and why instead of designing more new characters, they took old characters, added a number of special moves, and split them in two. It's also why they reduced the number of moves per character, and had fewer characters in SS3 than in SS2 (they had more frames of animation, but I think the total artwork for SS2's 15 characters is greater than SS3's 11 - someone feel free to prove me wrong there).

Also: You can beat Zankuro by time out as well. As well as in every other fighitng game with a timer. Are all other fighitng games (including SS3) silly now?

> Afterall,the samujrai shodown series isnt a tournemt.TAheir is no need for a ref.Its an oversite that snk fixed by 3.

Laziness. The referee was one of the most unique and original aspects to SS1/2. It's not my fault if you didn't understand his historical and cultural significance (for those who don't know, he's from Kabuki theatre, and you're supposed to pretend he's not there; if the game has a fighting kabuki, there's no reason why they can't have the kabuki theatre black stage-hand as a referee). And even so, Kuroko is STILL in the game, only now instead of being a really badass hidden boss with his own moves (even if most of them are ripped off rom other SNK characters), he now morphs into your own character. MORE laziness on SNK's part.

> Another gameplay flaw both 2 and 3 shared was the random bomb/food tossing by the edo express delivewry man.In a heated game of skill vs. skil,their was no need for random luck based advabtage.

It was part of the game. Another part of its uniqueness. Same thing with the random bombs and the random damage modifiers (why sometimes a brutal hard slash would do more [or occasionally less] damage than normal). I would hardly call it a gameplay flaw, since it didn't detract from either game's core gameplay. Against skilled competition, you could win maybe ONE match out of 100 due to the "luck" of getting a lot of meat.

> All your left you do was play SS2 like SS1 but with new moves,doll moves and super arts.

The doll moves and supers were kinda superfluous as well, actually. They added to the strategy, but I can't think of anyone who had a relly *great* super, since most of them were generally so easy to block. You could do a couple pixels of free damage with Haohmaru's and Charlotte's, but that's about it. Still, they had the purpose of breaking an opponent's weapon, putting your opponent (except for Galford and maybe Hanzo) at a severe disadvantage, making them quite worthwhile to pull off. Compare this to supers in SS3, which were nothing more than combo enders. Yeah, you made your opponent lose your weapon (a strategic element that was lost in SS4), but aside from combos, there was no *real* reward for pulling them off, since normal moves did SO much damage. Why do I need a 50% damage super when one combo, or occasionally one good C hit will do the trick?

Now, try and defend SS3's implementation of air-blocking, by far the WORST example of air-blocking ever implemented. IIRC, You could air EVERYTHING, no questions asked. Talk about mindless jumping. Furthermore, you could counter-attack after air-blocking. Thi characters with air-throws a nasty option select: If your opponent jumps, jump at them holding back. If they do nothing, air throw. If hey attack, air-block, then hit C. Free damage for you either way. Absolutely stupid. SNK couldn't get rid of this fast enough.

Then there was the individual character tactics. Never have I seen a game like SS3 in which just about every character seemed to have some really DUMB tactics that worked(though I guess CvS2 comes close). From Haohmaru's 2 hit death, to [Slash] Nakoruru's re-dizzies and unstoppable rushdown and free jumps, to Bust Ukyo side-step 50% damage ToDs, to Gaira's "strategy" of "block everything, hit C", it was just a big mess.

Add to that the overall INSANE damage control, the unnecessarily fast timer (10 seconds left in SS2 was a lifetime; 20 seconds left in SS3 means the round is over) and he really lame guard-crush. What was wrong with throws? SS1/SS2 had some of the coolest throws ever, and they were quite good in SS2. Why did they get rid of them? Probably to appease some throw-whining scrubs - didn't KI1 (proof of why listening to scrubs when making a game is a VERY BAD IDEA) come out somewhere around this time? And yet, we got guard-crushed that, against some characters, left you open to free 35% damage low C. Who thought that this was a GOOD idea?

Plus, the new control scheme blows. Kicks were useful and strategic in SS2. Kicks were an after thought in SS3+. I'm sure you'll counter with the incredibly predictable "but it's a WEAPONS game and they should be using weapons", but their was balance in SS1/2. You used kicks for positioning and harassing, and you used the slashes for big damage. Changing the button scheme reduced the moveset for every character (laziness), and it dumbed down the gameplay.

SS3 was lacking in the gameplay department no matter how you look at it. It had some good ideas (like the overheads, though I would have preferred unique overheads for every character), and it did improve on SS2 in a few areas (faster game speed and slightly better control), but the GIGANTIC flaws pretty ruined the game. These flaws were (mostly) corrected in SS4, but they didn't bring back any of the stuff that made SS2 so good. SS4 has its own problems, which I won't go into at this point. This post is long enouh already.

Anyway, I'm glad you went into the actual gameplay aspects of the game. Too bad you were about 95% wrong, but it's a start. Now if you can lay off the initial posturing that no one (inclduing me) gives a shit about, maybe we can get somewhere.



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"Re(4):Re(10):Re(10):Anyone play psx Sam sho w" , posted Wed 12 Jun 14:02post reply


Nice try, Rugal/Hidden Warrior. As if this isn't you.





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