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| Beast of Fire
27th Post
 
Rare Customer
 
|  "Re(2):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?"
, posted Fri 31 May 13:32
quote:
For what I remember of The Arcadia rankings ... sorry if I make some mistakes, it's been a long week of hard work...
1 Milia (Aerial mistress)
2 Johnny (ground trap infinite...)
3 Dizzy
4 Sol & Jam
6 Chipp
7 Venom
8 Baiken
9 Zato
10 Faust
11 Anji
12 May
13 Ky (not a game for shoto-likes...)
14 Axl
15 Testament (trap character in a rush'n combo game...)
16 Potemkin (no rush, too slow, grab character in a rush'n combo game...)
I agree with a good bit of that list, but there are some discrepancies, IMO. Jam and Baiken seem to be a bit too high, while May seems far too low. Maybe Jam's FCD infinite is what made Arcadia place her so high, but I'm not even sure it was known about back then. May's got far too many good things going for her: good power, lots of nice low-hitting moves that knock down, a pretty killer okizeme game, a wonderful command throw that can lead to combos (or you can link her super off of it), and she has the only unblockable Destroy in the game. And I'm sure you've all heard me rant about Baiken before, so I won't bother to go there.
Opinions always vary according to who you talk to, but I would say that the most commonly agreed-upon top characters are Millia and Johnny. Dizzy seems debatable, but she does have a huge damage potential. Sol is unquestionably top of second tier, at the very least, if not top-tier. Zato's really good as well, he's probably the most versatile character in the game (yeah, more versatile than Baiken. Heh). People also seem to universally agree that Ky is crap.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
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| Mog
3th Post
New Customer
| "Re(4):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Sat 1 Jun 22:34
And Shin, it's not just those three that people agree on; most people feel that Ky and Axl are pretty weak.
Heh, guess I should expect something like that from a guy who has Sol as his avatar. Why is it that everyone always knocks the defensive characters in Guilty Gear? Yeah, the fighting system caters to an offensive style of game-play (negative pens, guard meters, dusts, etc
), but that doesn't necessarily mean you can't be effective using a character who is geared more towards a defensive style, they just have a larger learning curve. As youve probably guessed by now, Ky and Axl are my main characters. Although Im not the best GGX player in the world (last time I say it, promise) I can hold my own, and have taken down many a Johnny. Still, in terms of offense or defense, it all comes down to personal preference I suppose.
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| Beast of Fire
31th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(5):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Sun 2 Jun 21:07
quote:
Heh, guess I should expect something like that from a guy who has Sol as his avatar.
Please. Quit trying to act like you're funny or psychic. I actually happen to like Ky as a character, but I find him boring and ineffective to play as in GGX.
quote:
Why is it that everyone always knocks the defensive characters in Guilty Gear? Yeah, the fighting system caters to an offensive style of game-play (negative pens, guard meters, dusts, etc
), but that doesn't necessarily mean you can't be effective using a character who is geared more towards a defensive style, they just have a larger learning curve.
First off, if you think Ky is a defensively based character in GGX, then you need to sit down and relearn him. Ky fails on defense; his only useful defensive move is Vapor Thrust, and using it as a main defense will get you killed. The way Ky is normally played involves trying to set up a mixup game with his Stun Dipper and his Dust. Since his Dust is the fastest Dust in the game, it's useful for breaking low guard and getting a combo (it's very telegraphed, though, so experienced players will be on the lookout). Setting this up involves using a Stun Edge Charge Attack on an opponent as they get up in order to force them to block. And if you think that Ky has a large learning curve, you're mistaken; he's definitely one of the easiest characters to pick up, which is why newbies are attracted to him; but then they find out that he's actually pretty weak, so they drop him in favor of a stronger character.
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As youve probably guessed by now, Ky and Axl are my main characters. Although Im not the best GGX player in the world (last time I say it, promise) I can hold my own, and have taken down many a Johnny.
The problem is that attempting to play either one of those characters in a defensive matter doesn't work in a real match. Axl simply can't do good damage when played in a defensive/keepaway manner; you have to go for combos, or your opponent will win simply by tapping you harder than you're tapping him. And I've already discussed Ky. If you're beating Johnny players with Ky and Axl, then they must not be very good Johnny players.
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Still, in terms of offense or defense, it all comes down to personal preference I suppose.
Indeed it does, but there are very few characters who can actually play defense effectively in this game, Potemkin being one of them (and even then, he's not very good).
The funny thing is that Sol is actually better on defense than Ky; he has better stamina and better tools for the job, and he can turn a defensive maneuver into an offensive one with terrible ease (that's why I like him for match play, he's balanced and pretty versatile). Let's face it, when you play defensively, you will most likely take a couple of licks, and if you can't deal that damage back, along with a little extra, then you're not gonna win.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
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| Taa kun
117th Post
Regular Customer
 
| "Re(9):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Mon 3 Jun 15:50:
quote:
Taa-Kun: Yeah, but it's as close as it can get without being even. I'm not saying Johnny isn't better, I just wouldn't say that the Johnny players are "not very good" just because they lost to a Ky user. As for Kevin beating a lot of people 9:1... wow, that's pretty sick. Is he #1 in that game, or is there someone even better?
If I remember, Kevin loses versus Grant (the second of the game) but he his first by a lot, Grant as advantages 6:4 to 8:2 against the whole of the cast except draw against another I forgot (Gato or Terry maybe...), while Kevin tends to 9:1 more than the half of the cast...
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Final Showdown: You can't air combo off of Ky's HS uppercut unless you RC to land before them. If you use the S uppercut, then it'll trade with Johnny's c.HS because its priority isn't so great. Also, Johnny could just do nothing and kill Ky when he whiffs his uppercut. So either way, Johnny still has the advantage.
I agree, most of the time, the two attacks will cancel themselves, but while Ky is still rising, Johnny is on the ground, totally free...
Tsukurimashou... Tsukurimashou...
Sate sate nani ga dekiru ka na ?
[this message was edited by Taa kun on Mon 3 Jun 16:45] |
| Jazzie D 1120th Post
Red Carpet Premium Member+
 
    
    
| "Re(10):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Mon 3 Jun 17:03
quote:
Taa-Kun: Yeah, but it's as close as it can get without being even. I'm not saying Johnny isn't better, I just wouldn't say that the Johnny players are "not very good" just because they lost to a Ky user. As for Kevin beating a lot of people 9:1... wow, that's pretty sick. Is he #1 in that game, or is there someone even better?
If I remember, Kevin loses versus Grant (the second of the game) but he his first by a lot, Grant as advantages 6:4 to 8:2 against the whole of the cast except draw against another I forgot (Gato or Terry maybe...), while Kevin tends to 9:1 more than the half of the cast...
Final Showdown: You can't air combo off of Ky's HS uppercut unless you RC to land before them. If you use the S uppercut, then it'll trade with Johnny's c.HS because its priority isn't so great. Also, Johnny could just do nothing and kill Ky when he whiffs his uppercut. So either way, Johnny still has the advantage.
I agree, most of the time, the two attacks will cancel themselves, but while Ky is still rising, Johnny is on the ground, totally free...
Wow! You sure have done a lot.
I can't believe May is actually in the middle. I thought she would be a bit lower. I have to see her match up numbers.
Oh and Kevin is 9:1 against most of the characters? That's beyond crazy!
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| Beast of Fire
32th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(10):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Tue 4 Jun 09:33
quote:
no im pretty sure s upper cut will win. just gotta time it i guess. also if he does nothing than he isnt exactly doing the mist trap then is he. =P
S Vapor Thrust is only 8 frames invincible on startup, whereas HS Vapor Thrust is 15. I think that if you're going for invincibility, the HS version is your best bet.
However, this is by no means a guaranteed way to break a Mist Trap. You misunderstand. See, if Johnny thinks that you'll do a wakeup move, then he'll just block and counter, but if he doesn't, then he'll continue as usual. It's a guessing game, but if Johnny guesses wrong, he doesn't lose out very much; if you guess wrong, you die. That's why Mist Trap is so good; there's no way to absolutely break the trap, and even if you manage to keep him from forcing you to block into another Finer, he still has the lvl 2 Mist Finer, and it's not really hard to land one of those against Ky (or anybody, for that manner). And voila. You're back in the trap.
Also take into account that Ky isn't exactly better than Johnny even when he's not in the Mist Trap; Johnny is stronger and has better priority over Ky.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
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| Taa kun
123th Post
Regular Customer
| "Re(5):Re(10):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Tue 4 Jun 10:23
quote:
PS : comment tu fé pour t'abonné ŕ l'Arcadia ? J'aimerais bien le recevoir mais chuis de Marseille alors ...
Tu pense ke si je m'abonne ŕ une Boutik de Paris, ils se casseront le cul pour me l'envoyé chez moi dans des délais convenables ?
Car avant j' HT les Gamest dans un boutik ŕ Marseille mais maintenant ils font plus les mag' ... T_T
Pour les abonnements, je sais pas du tout, j'achete sur place, le jour ou ils installent les revues...
Sinon, t'as pas de bol, je redescend souvent en province voir parents et amis et je ramene des Arcadia (par paquets de 5...) pour des potes...
Pas que ca d'ailleurs, j'ai une reputation de livreur/Pere Noel, mais bon, c'est a Toulouse que je descend...
Tsukurimashou... Tsukurimashou...
Sate sate nani ga dekiru ka na ?
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| Shin ATproof 610th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(6):Re(10):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Tue 4 Jun 10:25
quote:
PS : comment tu fé pour t'abonné ŕ l'Arcadia ? J'aimerais bien le recevoir mais chuis de Marseille alors ...
Tu pense ke si je m'abonne ŕ une Boutik de Paris, ils se casseront le cul pour me l'envoyé chez moi dans des délais convenables ?
Car avant j' HT les Gamest dans un boutik ŕ Marseille mais maintenant ils font plus les mag' ... T_T
Pour les abonnements, je sais pas du tout, j'achete sur place, le jour ou ils installent les revues...
Sinon, t'as pas de bol, je redescend souvent en province voir parents et amis et je ramene des Arcadia (par paquets de 5...) pour des potes...
Pas que ca d'ailleurs, j'ai une reputation de livreur/Pere Noel, mais bon, c'est a Toulouse que je descend...
Viva le Guilty Gear!
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| Burning Kyo 382th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(6):Re(10):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Tue 4 Jun 10:26
quote:
PS : comment tu fé pour t'abonné ŕ l'Arcadia ? J'aimerais bien le recevoir mais chuis de Marseille alors ...
Tu pense ke si je m'abonne ŕ une Boutik de Paris, ils se casseront le cul pour me l'envoyé chez moi dans des délais convenables ?
Car avant j' HT les Gamest dans un boutik ŕ Marseille mais maintenant ils font plus les mag' ... T_T
Pour les abonnements, je sais pas du tout, j'achete sur place, le jour ou ils installent les revues...
Sinon, t'as pas de bol, je redescend souvent en province voir parents et amis et je ramene des Arcadia (par paquets de 5...) pour des potes...
Pas que ca d'ailleurs, j'ai une reputation de livreur/Pere Noel, mais bon, c'est a Toulouse que je descend...
Porfite en pour venir ŕ Marseille aussi !
^_^
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| Mog
5th Post
New Customer
| "Re(6):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Tue 4 Jun 10:39
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Please. Quit trying to act like you're funny or psychic.
quote:
I wasn't trying to be either, I was merely expressing my amusement. Nothing I said was meant to be taken in offense.
quote:
First off, if you think Ky is a defensively based character in GGX, then you need to sit down and relearn him.
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I didn't say that he is necessarily a defensive character, just that I feel his moves, normal and special, are as a whole more geared towards defensive play.
quote:
Ky fails on defense.
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Yes, I agree, but then everyone (as you said farther down) fails on defense in GGX. The fighting system favors offense to defense hand over fist. The one exception is the FD, and even that has its ties in offensive play (being part of the Tension Gauge and all). So as a whole, you really can't play much of a defensive game in GGX, but that doesn't mean that you can't be effective with a character that is more geared towards defense. It's funny really... I like Ky because of what I deem to be his overall defensive nature, but I tend to use him offensively.
quote:
And if you think that Ky has a large learning curve, you're mistaken; he's definitely one of the easiest characters to pick up, which is why newbies are attracted to him; but then they find out that he's actually pretty weak, so they drop him in favor of a stronger character.
quote:
Sorry, that wasn't very clear. What I meant by that was that using a character more geared towards defense in game that doesn't really allow you to play defensively in an effective manor has a learning curve. It's been my experience that most people new to the game tend to drift towards Millia, Chipp, or Sol (Millia and Chipp are fast and have lost of moves, Sol is strong, but still has mobility, and all three combo very well). Sure Ky's moves are easy to learn, but he just doesn't flow as well as the previously mentioned characters. Lack of Flow = No Button-Mashing = No Newbs, but that again is my experience.
quote:
The problem is that attempting to play either one of those characters in a defensive matter doesn't work in a real match. Axl simply can't do good damage when played in a defensive/keepaway manner; you have to go for combos, or your opponent will win simply by tapping you harder than you're tapping him.
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*See Ky, and replace more defensive with defensive*
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If you're beating Johnny players with Ky and Axl, then they must not be very good Johnny players.
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That's entirely possible. I already stated how good I feel I am at GGX, so I don't rule that out. However, it still holds true that I have yet to go up against anyone whom I wasn't able to beat at least 50% of the time. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who can, but until I play against them, I really won't know.
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Indeed it does, but there are very few characters who can actually play defense effectively in this game, Potemkin being one of them (and even then, he's not very good).
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*See Above*
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The funny thing is that Sol is actually better on defense than Ky; he has better stamina and better tools for the job, and he can turn a defensive maneuver into an offensive one with terrible ease (that's why I like him for match play, he's balanced and pretty versatile).
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I would argue that. The only special move of Sol's that consistently works for me on defense is the Volcanic Viper (which is really good for stopping attacks), the others are iffy at best. Most of his normal moves lack range, and the ones that have it tend to be too slow to work in a defensive situation. Sol can quickly switch from defense to offense. That, however, is due more to the fact that he is an offensive powerhouse than him being good at defense. I feel that Ky works better than Sol on D in part because he can quickly switch from defense to offense, and vice-versa. He may not be the best at either, but his transition between to two is very smooth.
quote:
Let's face it, when you play defensively, you will most likely take a couple of licks, and if you can't deal that damage back, along with a little extra, then you're not gonna win.
That's what I do my best to ensure.
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| Beast of Fire
33th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(7):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Tue 4 Jun 20:47
quote:
I didn't say that he is necessarily a defensive character, just that I feel his moves, normal and special, are as a whole more geared towards defensive play.
I disagree. The character's emphasis on projectiles and long-range moves, along with the basic uppercut, would imply a focus on defense and keepaway, but when all but one of these tools proves ineffective, then you cannot say the character is geared towards defense, because he doesn't have enough useful defensive moves. Now take into account his quick, very linkable normals (close Slash is very fast and links into either command move), his quick Dust attack, his Stun Dipper (fast and knocks down, combos well), his Crescent Slash (overhead hit that leads to air combos), and his super, Ride The Lightning (forward-moving, only useful when comboed), and he altogether seems much more an offensively geared character to me.
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Yes, I agree, but then everyone (as you said farther down) fails on defense in GGX.
Not true. I said that not many characters are specifically geared to be more defensive than offensive (as in, relying on defense). There are many characters who can play an effective defense, but their offense is usually more effective. Ky does not have an effective defense in comparison to others.
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The fighting system favors offense to defense hand over fist. The one exception is the FD, and even that has its ties in offensive play (being part of the Tension Gauge and all). So as a whole, you really can't play much of a defensive game in GGX, but that doesn't mean that you can't be effective with a character that is more geared towards defense.
This is not true. There are occasions where you will be FORCED to play defense. Sol vs. Millia is a lost cause if Sol decides to go all-out offense; he doesn't have the speed to out-bulldog her, even though he's worlds stronger than her, hit-for-hit. So you have to be patient and block her attacks, then try to pull a defensive strike when she leaves herself open too long after attacking. The tables are still stacked against Sol in this situation, but he's much better off playing defense. And I agree that the system doesn't keep you from being effective with a defensive-based character, but Ky does not apply in this situation.
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It's funny really... I like Ky because of what I deem to be his overall defensive nature, but I tend to use him offensively.
Then you're being just a little bit backwards. No harm meant, but that doesn't really make sense.
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Sorry, that wasn't very clear. What I meant by that was that using a character more geared towards defense in game that doesn't really allow you to play defensively in an effective manor has a learning curve.
But he's not geared towards defense. See above.
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It's been my experience that most people new to the game tend to drift towards Millia, Chipp, or Sol (Millia and Chipp are fast and have lost of moves, Sol is strong, but still has mobility, and all three combo very well). Sure Ky's moves are easy to learn, but he just doesn't flow as well as the previously mentioned characters. Lack of Flow = No Button-Mashing = No Newbs, but that again is my experience.
That's because you're classifying button-mashers alone as newbs. You forget about the Street Fighter crowd, and in most old-school SF, button-mashing is foreign. So anyone who's new to GGX and old to SF would probably drift towards Ky, simply because of his very shoto-ish style.
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*See Ky, and replace more defensive with defensive*
I don't see where you're coming from.
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That's entirely possible. I already stated how good I feel I am at GGX, so I don't rule that out. However, it still holds true that I have yet to go up against anyone whom I wasn't able to beat at least 50% of the time. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who can, but until I play against them, I really won't know.
I understand your position, and I'm not saying that you aren't possibly good enough to do so. But from what I've personally seen, Ky players don't fare well against Johnny players who are at the same level (Walchuk, you don't count. You're just too damn good. =P).
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I would argue that. The only special move of Sol's that consistently works for me on defense is the Volcanic Viper (which is really good for stopping attacks), the others are iffy at best.
How so? Most of Sol's standing normals are barriers that you would be foolish to run into, lest you suffer a counter hit. Sol's Air Bandit Revolver has great priority and works very well against jumpers. His crouch Hard Slash is good against most air attacks and leads to an air combo if it hits. Even his standing Kick is a decent anti-air, and it links to crouch Hard Slash (air combo ahoy). And of course, his Volcanic Viper. It's the most effective one because of its invulnerability, but it lacks the range of some of his other defensive moves, like Bandit Revolver.
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Most of his normal moves lack range, and the ones that have it tend to be too slow to work in a defensive situation.
Range is not necessary when playing defense. Priority is. Johnny's moves have decent range, but not the best in the game; the reason they work so well as defensive moves is that they outprioritize almost everything. When Johnny pokes, he owns the space in front of him. Sol's moves also have great priority, and this is why you can play him defensively.
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Sol can quickly switch from defense to offense. That, however, is due more to the fact that he is an offensive powerhouse than him being good at defense.
More like his defensive moves link incredibly well into offensive moves. Often his good offensive moves also work incredibly well on defense because of their huge priority.
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I feel that Ky works better than Sol on D in part because he can quickly switch from defense to offense, and vice-versa. He may not be the best at either, but his transition between to two is very smooth.
Sol can transfer from defense to offense with a snap of your fingers, and vice-versa. Because so many of his moves can work both ways, he transfers between the two styles very easily. Ky, on the other hand, has to switch gears from offense to defense, so to speak. It's a bit more cumbersome because you don't use the same moves on either end with Ky. Sol's transition is much smoother because his offensive moves work equally well as defensive moves, in most cases.
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That's what I do my best to ensure.
That's not what I was trying to get you to understand. Even if you try your best to do that, there are some characters who can still do it better.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
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| Beast of Fire
35th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(8):Re(10):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Wed 5 Jun 21:31
quote:
thanks for wasting my time.
sorry i know that makes me sound like a ass hole so im sorry about that.
what gets me is that this is just a common sence type question. i mean i shouldnt have to test this out. im (key word coming up) invincable. i cant get hurt. your doing this attack as a meaty attack which means basicly before i get up to make sure that i would have to reversal so i just think its kinda common sence that i would win.
oh well whatever.............
oh yeah you can try it out whatever. Ky wins like i said.
You know, your attitude really grates on my nerves. You're so sure of yourself, and you expect everyone to take everything you say as truth. But whatever.
Your mistake in saying that this is "common sense" is that you're assuming that you're totally untouchable during the move; the invincibility window is limited, and if there's a move coming out that hits you at the end of that, then you lose, period. Meaty attacks tend to stay out for a while, which is why you can throw them early and still expect them to hit. Let's say I do a Gun Flame on Ky as he's getting up, and he goes into a Slash Vapor Thrust. He blows through the beginning of the flame, but at the end of his vulnerability window, the attack is still there, and he gets hit. Just because you're doing a partially invulnerable move on wakeup doesn't mean that you automatically beat out whatever's thrown at you, "common sense" or not.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
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| FINAL SHOWDOWN
14th Post
New Customer
| "Re(9):Re(10):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 07:12
quote:
thanks for wasting my time.
sorry i know that makes me sound like a ass hole so im sorry about that.
what gets me is that this is just a common sence type question. i mean i shouldnt have to test this out. im (key word coming up) invincable. i cant get hurt. your doing this attack as a meaty attack which means basicly before i get up to make sure that i would have to reversal so i just think its kinda common sence that i would win.
oh well whatever.............
oh yeah you can try it out whatever. Ky wins like i said.
You know, your attitude really grates on my nerves. You're so sure of yourself, and you expect everyone to take everything you say as truth. But whatever.
Your mistake in saying that this is "common sense" is that you're assuming that you're totally untouchable during the move; the invincibility window is limited, and if there's a move coming out that hits you at the end of that, then you lose, period. Meaty attacks tend to stay out for a while, which is why you can throw them early and still expect them to hit. Let's say I do a Gun Flame on Ky as he's getting up, and he goes into a Slash Vapor Thrust. He blows through the beginning of the flame, but at the end of his vulnerability window, the attack is still there, and he gets hit. Just because you're doing a partially invulnerable move on wakeup doesn't mean that you automatically beat out whatever's thrown at you, "common sense" or not.
hmmm lemmme think how to answer this. I know what your talking about. at least i assume what your talking about. First of all this is a common sense. Your doing a meaty attack which means it already has to be hitting while i get up. So your already wasiting some of your anamation or what ever the fuck you wanna call it. I how ever am getting up and doing the shoryuken vapor thrust what ever the heck his move is called and im invincable so basicly im going through his move that has already wasted some of the hit frame ect.
about the fire thing. this is a dum question imo. though i have a answer for it. lets take a look at say sfa3. shoryukens blow nut sack in this game. there worst incarnation ever i would say. Or ok i guess lets say sf3(doesnt really matter just giving examples) now normaly a shoryuken can not go through a fireball in this game. However thats not to say that the shoryuken does not have slight invincalbity. So if you do a a fireball right next to and i do a shoryuken i will go through the fireball. You see when you hit the characters sorta freeze in that hit anamation for just slighty longer allowing me to pass through. I would imagine this is the same in GGX as well. I cant recall off the top of my head. so sol will do his gun flame so its like this at max distance all go through a bit of the fire but ultimaly get hit by the flame. Now lets say i hit just the edge of your limb or what have you theres a good chance im gonna go through more fire then the last time as i get stuck in the certain frame of my last invunrable time. However i should get hit by the trail in.( i say this beacuse of sols fireball is kinda slow and is kinda like one flame squirts up after the other or something of that degree.) now if im right up next to you im well as i said early most likely gonna beat this blah blah blah. so i know what your trying to say(or at least like i said i assume i know what your trying to say) but what im saying is that if you have a limb out when you hit someone you get stuck in the animeation just slightly longer which will allow me to pass through the flame.
Now to the comment before this. if you go at max distance 2 problems. im not sure but can you back dash as a reversal get up in GGX? if so i could just back dash. also when you go farther away theres more of the chance that the move you cancle into will not combo the farther it goes out. so perhaps i could reversal inbetween then. as hit stun is ussaly for most games longer than block stun.
sorry for the long read.
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| Walchuk
7th Post
New Customer
| "Re(10):Re(10):Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" , posted Thu 6 Jun 08:45
quote:
Now to the comment before this. if you go at max distance 2 problems. im not sure but can you back dash as a reversal get up in GGX? if so i could just back dash. also when you go farther away theres more of the chance that the move you cancle into will not combo the farther it goes out. so perhaps i could reversal inbetween then. as hit stun is ussaly for most games longer than block stun.
Yeah, I see what you're saying about the meaty attack thing now. Sol's move stays out so long that I guess it wasn't a good example to go by. Same with Jam's qcb+K.
As for backdash reversal, I don't think you can (just tried it). If there's a meaty attack out, then hitting back will make you block. I think if it was that easy to get out of Mist Trap, it wouldn't be considered so good. If c.HS is mistimed so it's not done as a meaty attack, then you can backdash or even jump away. But in that case you have to count on the Johnny player messing up, and it's not hard to do this particular thing right. For the 2nd thing, it's also not possible. Johnny's level 2 Mist Finer is extremely fast. Even if you instant block, which reduces block stun, there's nothing you can do.
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| Beast of Fire
39th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(5):Re(10):Re(10):Who're the GGX top-tiers" , posted Fri 7 Jun 14:47
quote:
anyway then (well fuck it...i cant remember how it came up so this part is gonna be fuzzy but hopefully you can recall what you said.) the gun flame came up. you said that the vapor thrust wouldnt go through the gun flame.
I gave an example of how the Vapor Thrust could be countered if an attack had longer hit frames than the Vapor Thrust's invulnerability frames.
quote:
i gave examples of how the vapor thrust could go through the gun flame.
You produced a situation which I never implied. You took what I was saying a bit too literally. Instead of seeing the point that I was trying to get at, you took the specifics of the situation and twisted them to your favor so you could maintain some sort of dignity.
BTW, the example you gave is very, very wrong. Remember that the S Vapor Thrust's hit frame doesn't start until after the invulerability has passed, so even if the attack hits me, you'd have already passed out of your invulnerability, and we would trade. It's not like SF where the attack has hit frames during the invulnerability. You continuously apply SF logic from other games to GGX, and that's stupid. They're two different games.
quote:
now after this you said well i wouldnt do the gun flame close enough for you to do that anyway. My comment is well why would i go try and go through the gun flame in the first place.
I figured that the idea of me not standing close enough for you to hit me with a Vapor Thrust on wakeup was IMPLIED. So when you brought up that situation, it appeared to be out of context in my eyes. So I dismissed it. I was just giving an example of how an attack could conceivably trade with Vapor Thrust, despite all your ravings about invulnerability. You took the situation out of context.
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im just saying at the very beging of this argument i coulda just said "well why the fuck would i try and go through the gun flame in the first place?" I didnt though cuz i thought you were just giving examples.
And I WAS.
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but then when i was giving examples you turned it around and said well like why would i do the gun flame that close anyway. so i said well why would i do the vapor thrust no were near you.
Which was stupid of you. You took my example and took it out of context. Besides which, your example was wrong anyway.
quote:
i was saying it makes you look like a ass cuz i coulda turned it around on you but i choose not to. yet you turn it around on me for something that i coulda just as easlily as done to you.
Uh, no. You're just being delusional.
Ok, REALLY, I'm through here. Nothing's getting accomplished.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
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"Who're the GGX top-tiers ?" 
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