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Puar
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"Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 05:45post reply


In my house, our first Super Nintendo game was Street Fighter II. We've been a Capcom supporting faction for the longest, but there's one gripe that always pissed me off as a kid and still does to this day...

Did it ever irk anyone else that when you cranked up the difficulty in Capcom games, not only does it make the AI harder but it ALSO makes them hit increasingly harder!?

I remember dying from just one Yoga Noogie, as we called it, from Dhalsim because the computer was a bastage, dying in four hits from Ken, and just being disgusted with this... Anyhow, discuss? ;D





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Burning Kyo
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"Re(1):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 08:32post reply


quote:
In my house, our first Super Nintendo game was Street Fighter II. We've been a Capcom supporting faction for the longest, but there's one gripe that always pissed me off as a kid and still does to this day...

Did it ever irk anyone else that when you cranked up the difficulty in Capcom games, not only does it make the AI harder but it ALSO makes them hit increasingly harder!?

I remember dying from just one Yoga Noogie, as we called it, from Dhalsim because the computer was a bastage, dying in four hits from Ken, and just being disgusted with this... Anyhow, discuss? ;D



There's no or few difference between 1 star difficulty 'n 8 stars difficulty in many Capcom games (e.g. : SF 3.1, M!JG, Jojo's BA, ..etc).





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"Re(1):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 08:50post reply


quote:

Did it ever irk anyone else that when you cranked up the difficulty in Capcom games, not only does it make the AI harder but it ALSO makes them hit increasingly harder!?



Mmmhh, I don't know, I always play my Capcom fighting games at the hardest difficulty, it's like a rule over here...





Burning Kyo
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"Re(2):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 10:19:post reply


quote:

Did it ever irk anyone else that when you cranked up the difficulty in Capcom games, not only does it make the AI harder but it ALSO makes them hit increasingly harder!?


Mmmhh, I don't know, I always play my Capcom fighting games at the hardest difficulty, it's like a rule over here...



Me too ! 'n with all the KOF too !
I think that the COM is easier with 8 stars, because he is less "turtle".





[this message was edited by Burning Kyo on Fri 31 May 11:09]

Burning Ranger
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"Re(3):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 11:04post reply


quote:

Mmmhh, I don't know, I always play my Capcom fighting games at the hardest difficulty, it's like a rule over here...



I dont go to max difficulty settings, but I set it between normal and maximum difficulty. I'm not that good of a cap player.

But... I remember in the old days of SFII, if you beat the game with a low difficulty, then you wouldn't see the ending? Does Capcom still do this with their fighters? Of course, I never tried.





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"Re(4):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 11:17post reply


quote:

Mmmhh, I don't know, I always play my Capcom fighting games at the hardest difficulty, it's like a rule over here...


I dont go to max difficulty settings, but I set it between normal and maximum difficulty. I'm not that good of a cap player.

But... I remember in the old days of SFII, if you beat the game with a low difficulty, then you wouldn't see the ending? Does Capcom still do this with their fighters? Of course, I never tried.



Same here. I never experimented with difficulty levels before. But I remembered playing a version of Street Fighter II whereby the computer always have the advantage of "one-hit and you are dead". Not sure whether it is a bug or something...





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Puar
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"Re(2):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 12:43post reply


quote:
There's no or few difference between 1 star difficulty 'n 8 stars difficulty in many Capcom games (e.g. : SF 3.1, M!JG, Jojo's BA, ..etc).



Did I forget to mention I was asking about old school games? Go back and play some SNES SF2 and you'll see!





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"Re(1):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 13:10post reply


quote:
Did it ever irk anyone else that when you cranked up the difficulty in Capcom games, not only does it make the AI harder but it ALSO makes them hit increasingly harder!?



Ow...
You bring memories back : SSIIX (the first arcade game with Gouki...)
I played this game at my local arcade with difficulty max, and it was a nightmare...

You play T Hawk, and you cry because Cammy deal as much damage with a short kick than you with your fierce punch...

I still remember a friend of mine comming and saying "No, it's no so hard, I'll show you...". Two rounds later, after being perfected twice by his first CPU opponent Zangief, he was trying to hide from ours "Hey, it's the first time I see a guy making a score of 0 in a SFII game..."
We were so evil... but so was the game...

Not a long time ago, the CPU gived me a bad surprise in CvS2 : I was practicing with Ken in P-groove versus Terry : against a slow Power wave followed by a level 3 Buster wolf, perform two blockings then a crouching fierce into Shoryuken / Shoryureppa...
A few days later, while playing survival with Terry, versus a P-Ken, I performed a slow Power wave, followed by a Burning knuckle... blocking, blocking, crouching fierce, shoryuken... bastard CPU, it hurts...





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"Re(3):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 13:12post reply


This doesn't happen only with the SF games. I still have bad memories of the of Chang in KOF95 at difficulty 8. It drained like 80%, it was exaggerated. Also, a single Ryouku Ranbuu could kill.
In fact, there are few games that increase the difficulty only by smartening the AI. Usually they do a mix of more AI + more damage, but sometimes the increase in the AI is negligible.





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"Re(4):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 13:34post reply


quote:
But... I remember in the old days of SFII, if you beat the game with a low difficulty, then you wouldn't see the ending? Does Capcom still do this with their fighters? Of course, I never tried.


They don't, any level gives you an ending these days





Burning Kyo
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"Sorry ..." , posted Fri 31 May 13:37post reply


quote:
There's no or few difference between 1 star difficulty 'n 8 stars difficulty in many Capcom games (e.g. : SF 3.1, M!JG, Jojo's BA, ..etc).


Did I forget to mention I was asking about old school games? Go back and play some SNES SF2 and you'll see!



Ouch ^_@ ...
Gomen ne !

PS : I'm surely traumatize by Jojo'BA difficulty ^_^'





Juke Joint Jezebel
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"Re(1):Sorry ..." , posted Fri 31 May 17:33post reply


LOL!!!! i remember those demonic Yoga Noogies on the hardest difficulty. we played SFII for SNES the other day and my friend got locked in a Yoga Noogie (at about half health). i laughed and said "dude, you're dead" and sure enough he died LOL! the computer's crap in that game. it's like they have a rapid button they can push to pull stuff off like that easily. same goes with other guys with throws that do multiple hits -- Zangief, Blanka, etc

ya, i too play on hardest difficulty. it's like if i switch back to normal and play my friends again, they'll slaughter me. heh we're always 'training' the hardest we can just so we can beat eachother

for some reason, i have a tougher time playing SNK games with hardest difficulty, especially against counter characters. Kasumi is SOOOOO evil in kof 99. "HAOH-sho-koh-ken!" (or a similar bigass super) she rolls past and kicks my ass. i attack her -- counter. i throw a projectile -- dodge. she's so damn mean. i dunno, maybe it's just me

as for CvS2 in hardest difficulty, i played it earlier and figured something out. the very moment my crouching jab (you all know how fast a crouching jab is) was pressed, Ryu executed his hurricane super (kicking my ass), or Todo had his counter super activated ... the list goes on. on the hardest difficulty, they've got automatic reflexes in that game. despite that "problem," imo for some reason they're not as hard as they should be in that game .. i guess i just expected a bit more (and uhh i'm not talking about orochi gouki and shin rugal -- or whatever their names are. whoever created those characters deserve a good slap. in my opinion, bosses shouldn't be cheap and overpowered. instead, i think they should be skilled and relentless)





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"Re(2):Sorry ..." , posted Fri 31 May 20:04post reply


That's why I stick to the fair difficutly setting,that provides a challenge,but now I can still beat without beating the shit out of my console or controller.





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"Re(2):Sorry ..." , posted Fri 31 May 20:16:post reply


quote:
for some reason, i have a tougher time playing SNK games with hardest difficulty, especially against counter characters. Kasumi is SOOOOO evil in kof 99. "HAOH-sho-koh-ken!" (or a similar bigass super) she rolls past and kicks my ass. i attack her -- counter. i throw a projectile -- dodge. she's so damn mean. i dunno, maybe it's just me


Nah, Kasumi's an UGLY GIRL!!!

Seriously, counters are seriously overpowered in KOF. Kasumi, Mary, and May Lee shouldn't be able to counter supers.

And try fighting Shin Kyo in 99. Autoguard city.






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[this message was edited by Freeter on Fri 31 May 20:16]

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"Re(1):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 23:22post reply


On my U.S. copy of SNES Street Fighter 2, they don't do more damage from the same hits.
Repetative hits can kill you though like unescapable yoga nuggies.
I don't like games where four hits can kill you. If thats going to be the way the game works, more opportunities for escape would be nicer.





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"Re(1):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Fri 31 May 23:26post reply


quote:
In my house, our first Super Nintendo game was Street Fighter II. We've been a Capcom supporting faction for the longest, but there's one gripe that always pissed me off as a kid and still does to this day...

Did it ever irk anyone else that when you cranked up the difficulty in Capcom games, not only does it make the AI harder but it ALSO makes them hit increasingly harder!?

I remember dying from just one Yoga Noogie, as we called it, from Dhalsim because the computer was a bastage, dying in four hits from Ken, and just being disgusted with this... Anyhow, discuss? ;D



I usually don't have any trouble with Capcom games, but recently I've been getting my ass kicked at CvS2 by Sagat and Yamazaki. I haven't been playing the game lately and I'm losing my touch.

I would have to say that the hardest fighter I've played would be between Street Fighter Alpha 2 and Super Street Fighter 2. Damn that Ryu!! Other than Ryu everyone is pretty much kinda easy to get past in 2 tries.





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"Re(2):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Sat 1 Jun 01:27post reply


My rule is, if the easiest level is really as easy as easy should be (and that means NO instant reactions, NO picture-perfect megacombos, NO computer-precision timing on EVERY attack, etc.), I don't have a beef. The problem is when I get something that's unbelievably migraine-incuding hard on the easiest difficulty. I've played seemingly a hundred games that were like that, and it drove me up the wall every time.

And SF2 Turbo was wack. To this day, I have nothing but the utmost awe at anyone who actually got any kind of ending on this game. Both because it was breathtakingly difficult, and because any one who actually spent the hundreds of dollars required to do this has serious psychological problems.

Thought having the real endings only on the higher difficulty settings was cool at first, but I'm glad they did away with it. Some of us just aren't that good.





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"Re(1):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Sat 1 Jun 01:38post reply


quote:
In my house, our first Super Nintendo game was Street Fighter II. We've been a Capcom supporting faction for the longest, but there's one gripe that always pissed me off as a kid and still does to this day...

Did it ever irk anyone else that when you cranked up the difficulty in Capcom games, not only does it make the AI harder but it ALSO makes them hit increasingly harder!?

I remember dying from just one Yoga Noogie, as we called it, from Dhalsim because the computer was a bastage, dying in four hits from Ken, and just being disgusted with this... Anyhow, discuss? ;D

It's weird. But yet so true.





Juke Joint Jezebel
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"Re(2):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Sat 1 Jun 02:07post reply


quote:
Nah, Kasumi's an UGLY GIRL!!!

THAT'S IT! i'm making me a Kasumi banner (hehe)

quote:
Seriously, counters are seriously overpowered in KOF. Kasumi, Mary, and May Lee shouldn't be able to counter supers.

i actually love counters, especially in kof! it's beautiful when i stick my ass on the line and stop a DM with a simple counter. i think they're worth stopping supers. if i take the risk, i'll pay the consequence (or receive the prize)

i personally think Capcom took the "desperation move" idea and did their own thing with it. some people may like this, some people don't -- but in SNK games, when someone tries a charged up super move, it can still be taken out with other moves quite easily, but .. if that move lands, it'll do a crapload of damage. in Capcom games, if a charged up (or lvl 3) super move is executed, it's near invincible, but it won't do nearly as much damage as an SNK super move (by "invincible," i mean, a normal move or special move against proves pretty useless)

maybe it's just me, but from my experience, i think that's how Capcom and SNK do it. of course, i haven't played too many of the developing Capcom and SNK games (like early kofs or the street fighter where gouki first appears)





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"Re(2):Sorry ..." , posted Sat 1 Jun 02:23post reply


quote:
LOL!!!! i remember those demonic Yoga Noogies on the hardest difficulty


The most frightening thing was Blanka's bite you couldn't escape, in my memories...
And Ryu (I think only him, Ken never did it) could chain 9 crouching low kicks, then you fainted, then he continued and perfect!
This game was awfull...





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"Speaking of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure..." , posted Sat 1 Jun 21:31post reply


quote:
PS : I'm surely traumatize by Jojo'BA difficulty ^_^'



Speaking of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure... Does anyone know where I can get an ISO of it for the DC, hell even the PS one for that matter. I just want to be able to play it again. Someone scratched the shit out of AND took a chunk from the copy that I ACTUALLY OWN. I've scoured my entire city for it to no avail... *sob*





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Puar
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"Re(2):Sorry ..." , posted Sat 1 Jun 21:36post reply


quote:

for some reason, i have a tougher time playing SNK games with hardest difficulty, especially against counter characters. Kasumi is SOOOOO evil in kof 99. "HAOH-sho-koh-ken!" (or a similar bigass super) she rolls past and kicks my ass. i attack her -- counter. i throw a projectile -- dodge. she's so damn mean. i dunno, maybe it's just me



I always play on the hardest difficulty as well. As for Evil Kasui in '99, that's because she has those damn counters and, in the hands of a high powered AI, are god-like. I dislike games where they throw in a Counter Character and, because they "know" every move you're about to or going to do by your inputs, decide they're going to counter each thing. Bastard AI...





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"Re(3):Sorry ..." , posted Sun 2 Jun 07:52post reply


quote:

I always play on the hardest difficulty as well. As for Evil Kasui in '99, that's because she has those damn counters and, in the hands of a high powered AI, are god-like. I dislike games where they throw in a Counter Character and, because they "know" every move you're about to or going to do by your inputs, decide they're going to counter each thing. Bastard AI...



Jump in, but don't attack. Kasumi tries to counter and eats the biggest combo you have when you land. Jump back and repeat until she's dead. It's the classical "anti-Geese trick". Works 80% of the time, at least.





Puar
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"Re(4):Sorry ..." , posted Sun 2 Jun 14:06post reply


Don't forget to throw out whiff attacks!





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"Re(1):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Sun 2 Jun 16:43post reply


Unusual, the arcades where I live always put the Capcom machines at top difficulty and with maximum damage (play any SFZ and Sagat will destroy you with a Tiger Uppercut, and most level 1 SC will deal like 80% of the bar), while you deal the regular damage... even though I found them pretty easy, the only problem is that you got to resort mainly to some kinds of techniques to survive the whole game, draining most of the fun.


By the other hand, I still got some traumas after playing & finishing Samurai Showdown 2 & AoF 3 at level 8, in that case the only way to survive is luck.... that can be a bother.


I also got some mean memories from GG for the PSX... the machine wasn't difficult, but they knew when to use that Destroyer; also metion the Tekken 2 game for the arcades.


As far as I know, many games are less fun when playing on the hardest level, because you have to use cheap tricks to survive, but in some cases the AI actually "plays better" on bigger difficulties and can show you some tricks or two that will leave you like WWHHoooaaa!!!??? What the HecK ??!!!





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"Re(2):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Sun 2 Jun 21:49post reply


quote:
Jump in, but don't attack. Kasumi tries to counter and eats the biggest combo you have when you land. Jump back and repeat until she's dead. It's the classical "anti-Geese trick". Works 80% of the time, at least.

hehe, doesn't work with Kasumi. i've tried it. when i jump in and don't attack, her foot or fist finds its way into my rib cage. damn computer and their super reflexes >_<





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"Re(3):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Mon 3 Jun 08:13post reply


On the old games, yes, the CPU did more damage on the higher difficulty levels. For some it was a slight gradient, though at the highest level the CPU almost always did twice as much damage as you did. This applies for all versions of SF2 and Alpha 2 for you.

quote:

And SF2 Turbo was wack. To this day, I have nothing but the utmost awe at anyone who actually got any kind of ending on this game. Both because it was breathtakingly difficult, and because any one who actually spent the hundreds of dollars required to do this has serious psychological problems.



The original Turbo (aka Hyper Fighting, or HF) was quite a jump in difficulty. It took quite a while for most of us to handle the CPU. After a while, people could decimate the CPU with Ken and Ryu, but everyone else was still a challenge (and remains so to this day - I can't beat the arcade game consisently with one coin with my best character, Bison, despite the fact that I have algorithms against every character).

However, HF's difficulty was NOTHING compared to Super [SF2] Turbo. I don't care what anybody says, ST is the hardest fighting game *ever*. The CPU *always* knows what move to use to counter you, it tick throws like hell (watch as Dhalsim, Honda and Blanka remove 50% of your life with every hold even though you're mashing like crazy to escape), and of course, it does twice the damage you do! I can't even come close to finishing this game on the easiest difficulty level (I couldn't tell the difference between Very Easy and Very Hard, actually) with anyone except Vega, who has simple stupid patterns he can use! Bleah.

Mind you, beating the CPU isn't necessarily a sign that you know how to play the game (and conversely, *not* being able to beat the CPU doesn't mean that you *don't* know how to play the game). It just means you know how to exploit AI routines. But ST was so hard, it almost demanded that you have some competancy in order to get past the first few opponents.





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"Re(4):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Mon 3 Jun 10:09post reply


quote:
On the old games, yes, the CPU did more damage on the higher difficulty levels. For some it was a slight gradient, though at the highest level the CPU almost always did twice as much damage as you did. This applies for all versions of SF2 and Alpha 2 for you.


And SF2 Turbo was wack. To this day, I have nothing but the utmost awe at anyone who actually got any kind of ending on this game. Both because it was breathtakingly difficult, and because any one who actually spent the hundreds of dollars required to do this has serious psychological problems.


The original Turbo (aka Hyper Fighting, or HF) was quite a jump in difficulty. It took quite a while for most of us to handle the CPU. After a while, people could decimate the CPU with Ken and Ryu, but everyone else was still a challenge (and remains so to this day - I can't beat the arcade game consisently with one coin with my best character, Bison, despite the fact that I have algorithms against every character).

However, HF's difficulty was NOTHING compared to Super [SF2] Turbo. I don't care what anybody says, ST is the hardest fighting game *ever*. The CPU *always* knows what move to use to counter you, it tick throws like hell (watch as Dhalsim, Honda and Blanka remove 50% of your life with every hold even though you're mashing like crazy to escape), and of course, it does twice the damage you do! I can't even come close to finishing this game on the easiest difficulty level (I couldn't tell the difference between Very Easy and Very Hard, actually) with anyone except Vega, who has simple stupid patterns he can use! Bleah.

Mind you, beating the CPU isn't necessarily a sign that you know how to play the game (and conversely, *not* being able to beat the CPU doesn't mean that you *don't* know how to play the game). It just means you know how to exploit AI routines. But ST was so hard, it almost demanded that you have some competancy in order to get past the first few opponents.



Blanka or Honda chomping off 50% of your health was truly annoying but I think the worst was DeeJay's ability in ST to machine gun punch 100% of your life away. Exactly who was ST designed for?

Just curious, but is there a difference between the US and Japanese arcade versions of ST? I was playing the Japanese ST game recently and while the CPU is still whip-smart it didn't seem like it was pounding out the insane amount of damage that I remember the US version doing.





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"Capcom Difficulty Levels: Vampire Update!" , posted Tue 4 Jun 15:50post reply


So, I was playing around with CPS2 Emulation and decided to toy with the difficulty settings, cranked it up to max, and then watched in horror as one life bar fell victim to two short Felicia chain combos... Sickening. (;





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"Re(5):Capcom Difficulty Levels" , posted Wed 5 Jun 06:25post reply


> Exactly who was ST designed for?

It is rumoured that for ST's US AI, Capcom used a very high level Japanese player as a model to pattern it after. So I guess high level players was who ST was designed for.

> Just curious, but is there a difference between the US and Japanese arcade versions of ST?

Yes. The US version is much MUCH harder. Even on the highest difficulty, the Jpn. version is a joke compared to the US version.





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"Re(1):Capcom Difficulty Levels: Vampire Updat" , posted Wed 5 Jun 06:55post reply


Jedah's rock on max difficulty. He'd even kick Ignis' arse





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"Re(2):Capcom Difficulty Levels: Vampire Updat" , posted Wed 5 Jun 13:56post reply


U think the Cp2 vampire is hard, play it on the PS(darkstalkers 1) and c how hard that is. The game is insanly hard on the lowest level(even EGM states this), whereas the level plays like max on other games. I rented DS before, and boy it took me 1 hour to beat since that robot was freaking hard(hardest of all in this ver). That is Y U can see the char's ending on the lowest level. The reason the game is hard since capcom is tryin to hide the secret ending w/ the darkstalkers theme music(that dumb rock song), which U get at a higher diffculty or so ppl in maginzines say.





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"Re(3):Capcom Difficulty Levels: Vampire Updat" , posted Wed 5 Jun 19:28post reply


Guilty Gear X does that, too. The comp does a lot more damage than it's supposed to do when you get near the last battles.

About capcom games (and lots of other fighting games), often characters are tougher than they should be because they call up their 2 sec. charge moves whenever they want to. Ever seen Guile do a flash kick from a standing position? I thought so. Ever get spammed by Bison's(vega) psycho crusher? I know I have. Also in Guilty Gear X when you set the difficulty on hardest and play with johnny, May is at the end of the normal(not boss) fights, and is very hard because she deals insane damage and whips out 2 secs charge moves whenever whe feels like it(and especially whenever it's gonna counter my moves, lol). But the worst case of insane AI has always been Mortal Kombat. Without resorting to tricking the AI, it's almost impossible to win. And If you want a real challenge, download Killer Instinct (arcade rom) and the U64Emu and try to beat the roster without continueing. That ought to keep you on your toes for a while!