Original message ([an error occurred while processing this directive] Views )[an error occurred while processing this directive]
| Mosquiton 375th Post
 
Silver Customer
  
    
|  "So I played a bit of GGXX at E3..."
, posted Sun 26 May 17:38:
...and here are my very limited impressions. I was only able to spend about twenty minutes on the machine. Sammy had the arcade unit behind closed doors, with a very funky button layout-
  
  
- like so. the center-middle is not a button, and is supposed to be an image not found... Prof, put in a blank! Or am I missing a more obvious solution? Spaces sure don't work...
Unfortunately there was music playing loudly from a speaker in the room, and the game audio wasn't really loud enough to hear well. It's probably already common knowledge, but most stages look like they're exactly the same in composition, although there are stages for the new characters and probably subtle differences in the returning backgrounds.
I played Baiken, Johnny, more Baiken, and I-No in that order. Because of the alien button layout, and the fact that I've been playing on control pads almost exclusively for 2D fighters, it took some time to get used to things. The first few rounds (against I-No, who my friend was playing) were really rough and sloppy for both of us.
BAIKEN
I first squared off against my friend who was using I-No and subsequently noticed that I-No looks great. I made sure to immediately try out Baiken's      , which I found out later you can follow up with ... which is a really cool looking throat-level slash that combos. If you don't follow up the opponent will simply stagger. I'm fairly sure that you can combo the claw off a , as in the original GG, but I don't think it works past a certain distance. I was only able to whip out her tenchijin as far as supers, and I attempted but couldn't land her instant kill. My passion for Baiken has been rekindled now that she has the claw back. I just hope she has the original hair color in the alternate colors! I was near unbeatable with her in GG, and with the autoguard run AND the claw at my disposal the feeling seems to be coming back. :D I was moving nicely through arcade mode with Baiken (defeated the first seven CPU characters) but I wanted to try out I-No as well.
I-NO
I plan to play a lot of I-No, but not just because she's beautiful with beautiful animation to match. Her hat-spat projectile is slow-moving and multi-hitting, and can be followed up nicely with a //... although I'm not sure what to combo after this other than her super. Like the Professor said, the angled dash is quite nice... and you can charge her / for an air dashing attack (the straight version hits multiple times... I think this depends on how long you charge). I *think* it might be unblockable at a full-charge for the diagonal versions... or the computer AI might just fall for the delay every time. On a final note, almost all of her animations are quite sexy. Wow.
About her racy win-pose: Sometimes I-no will victoriously whip the shirt straight off and then drape it over her shoulder while turning to the side, giving you a nice silhouette of her breast and exposing a hint of nipple. I know this board will appreciate my detailed description. Remember, I write the rhymes for you.
JOHNNY
Johnny I played once and he seemed a bit odd. The mist slashes all seemed a bit slower, and my friend pretty much kicked my ass with I-No before I could do much. I got the new air-slash out (I'm not 100% sure on the motion, I'm sure it's on the net) once and was unfortunately blocked. I only played two matches as Johnny, and I had yet to adjust to the button layout... so I can't really make any judgements on how he plays at this point, except that initially he seems weakened. The + seemed quite fast and effective at least... reminds me of the GG mode version of the move.
OTHER
My friend played Zappa, but not enough to figure the things out that the prof had. I can say that he looks really freaky and quite cool in motion though. Testament's new moves seem nice, I'll be glad to play him again. The game looks awesome indeed, you have to appreciate a beautiful hi-res fighter. Unfortunately I have no info whatsoever on any other characters and I didn't get to fight EX I-No yet. Anything else I could share has been said already, so I'll wrap things up here.
No release date was announced, but I did notice in the press material at the end of the the GGX Advance section are the words
"Watch for GGX2 coming to PlayStation 2 computer entertainment system."
The reps I talked to there mentioned that the (to their knowledge) the port hasn't begun and there isn't even a vague date as to when the game might appear on a console in Japan or the US. Odds are decent though judging from the press material! Buy the Advance Edition of GGX and show your support for Sammy if you want to increase those odds.
Just by the way, I prefer not to reveal what media outlet I'm affiliated with or my real name, so don't ask. :P
I'll probably put some more E3 impressions up later, so if you have a specific game you're wondering about post and let me know!
/ / /
[this message was edited by Mosquiton on Tue 28 May 14:52] |
| Replies:
|
| Kuro
1th Post
New Customer
|  "Re(1):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...."
, posted Mon 27 May 12:52
quote:
GG and GGX Baiken both have their Pros and Cons but GGX Baiken is more versatile.
GG Baiken had-OTG Yoizansen, Ability to do a Triple Tatamigaeshi without a special mode, Kamaitachi is a long range attack and Tsurane Sanzu Watashi is unblockable...she had some very effective combos but very few.
BFD if you ask me...Baiken is all offensive and nothing else! Yes she is STILL powerful but PALES compared to...
GGX Baiken who has-Suzuran a rush move with auto-guard properties so you can rush you opponent for an offensive, special counters that attack high and low or allow you to get around the opponent, Baku overrides(the super counters) that alter your opponent in a number of ways(lowering their defense, stopping overrides, etc) let's realize they are ALL easy to execute and have mad priority and Tsurane Sanzu Watashi is no longer unblockable but is better in combos.
Oh let's not forget that in this version Garyoutensi...her Instant Kill it can become a combo ender!
This isn't even counting the GG Mode Baiken which has all of the GGX abilities PLUS anti-Air(that isn't part of her counters) and a triple Tatami Gaeshi that doesn't need to charge up.
GGX Baiken was an offensive and defensive powerhouse which comes in VERY handy against opponents which 90% of the time will take you on offensively...Baiken as the ability to adjust to her opponent because she has a diamond hard defense! She also has the ability to trap, pressure and defend with just ONE move...her Tatami Geshi. Or make someone like Potemkin take damage like Chipp or stop Dizzy from using an override! I am willing to argue that she can dominate a match BETTER than her previous incarnation.
So what if she is slightly slower or she does slightly less damage!? I don't think that matters very much when you compare it to her superior combo ability and priority in multiple purpose situations...good trade if you ask me...I'll take priority and versatility over power and speed any day.
No bloody way ANYONE could convince me that GG Baiken is better than GGX Baiken......NEVER!
GGX Baiken> GG Baiken
And from the way GGXX Baiken sounds
GGXX Baiken>GGX Baiken>GG Baiken
WOOOOOOO she has her Claw special(or some variation of it) again! BFD! Why is GGX version inferior? Couldn't pull off her counters!?
Hell GGX Baiken even looks better than GG Baiken!
GGX Baiken having better combos? Don't make me laugh. You've never been hit with one of her GG dust combos. And, who needs combos when you can continuously do Yousansen after yousansen? The choice is obvious. I admit the Tatami Gaeshi trap is pretty effective, though. However, compared to GG Baikens continuous Yousansens, even this fails in comparison. Ultimately, if you have her yousansens, you don't NEED her Tatami gaeshis. Add to the fact that she inflicts plenty of damage...well....you do the math. Loads of damage x Yousansen infinite = ? Also, lets not forget that Baiken can use infinite tri-slash overdrives when her gauge is flashing....but that's a gameplay factor, so I'll leave it at that. Guilty Gear is also an aggresive game. No time for blocking and countering. The best defense in GG/GGX/and possibly GGXX is a good offense.
Her overdrive counters. Useless. And don't tell me that I don't know how to use them, because I do. The effects aren't THAT long, and you could probably do more damage doing a Tri slash, or RCing a combo, and continuing. They look cool, though. Her normal counters work perfectly against a newbie player. But against an experienced player, hah. Good luck. They ALL have a slight delay between the block animation, and the beginning of the counter. By then, the opponent would've already recovered, and have time to block. That is, assuming they did a quick move first, of course. Her death stopping combos? Huh? Since when did it EVER do that?
Her running block can easily be stopped. Ever heard of a sweep, or a low attack? Perfect offense against it.
I really don't care about convincing you. To each, their own, after all.
|
| Shin ATproof 513th Post
New Red Carpet Member
 
| "Re(2):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Mon 27 May 14:34
quote:
GGX Baiken having better combos? Don't make me laugh. You've never been hit with one of her GG dust combos.
Yeah...they are strong but then again EVERYONE was strong in the first Guilty Gear. But GGX Baiken DOES have better combos and more of them.
quote:
And, who needs combos when you can continuously do Yousansen after yousansen? The choice is obvious.
You would need to combo it for it to be effective...nobody is just going to stand there and let you hit them with it...and while you are trying to connect it a Sol or Chipp would just bumrush you.
quote:
I admit the Tatami Gaeshi trap is pretty effective, though. However, compared to GG Baikens continuous Yousansens, even this fails in comparison.
I disagree...a tatami can stop attacks, defend you, trap the opponent, juggle multiple times, up the damage and chance for a dizzy and it's effective on both the air and and ground offensively and defensively...oh did I mention it's good for flooring the opponent as well? How about it's ability to link to other special attacks or supers? How about if timed well you can't ukemi?
quote:
Ultimately, if you have her yousansens, you don't NEED her Tatami gaeshis. Add to the fact that she inflicts plenty of damage...well....you do the math.
Really? Well if you depend on that move so much no wonder you think GGX Baiken is inferior because you OBVIOUSLY "forgot" to mention what you can do with a tatami in GGX.
quote:
Loads of damage x Yousansen infinite = ? Also, lets not forget that Baiken can use infinite tri-slash overdrives when her gauge is flashing....but that's a gameplay factor, so I'll leave it at that.
Baiken in GGX can juggle your ass till you are dizzy and then link her instant kill...and you CAN apply that easy...who needs an infinite when you can do a 100% combo in a matter of seconds?
quote:
Guilty Gear is also an aggresive game. No time for blocking and countering. The best defense in GG/GGX/and possibly GGXX is a good offense.
Guilty Gear IS an aggressive game however you don't get a negative penalty unless you are constantly defending or running away. If you are playing Baiken in GGX and counter you won't get negative penalty unless all you are doing is turtling and countering...however the beauty with Baiken in that game is that you can go from a strong offense to an equally strong if not stronger defense a the drop of a hat AND given the fact that the vast majority of your opponents will rush you her easy to execute and high priority counters will allow you do dominate the opponent to where you can even handicap them.
quote:
Her overdrive counters. Useless. And don't tell me that I don't know how to use them, because I do.
They are useless? ARE YOU #&*(&(@ Joking!? You must be...because you would realize that against any move with lag/no quick recovery they will connect!
quote:
The effects aren't THAT long, and you could probably do more damage doing a Tri slash, or RCing a combo, and continuing.
8-9 seconds not enough for you!?? Oh let's realize that on a damage scale one Baku override "Hou" will lower the opponents stamina to where a simple combo from Baiken can do more than most overrides...even on Potemkin! Just imagine what you could do with an RCing combo or something. Don't want the opponent(like Chipp) to jump? Use "Ki". Don't want the opponent(like Johnny) to use specials? Use "Rin." Want the opponent(like Dizzy) to deal less damage? Use "Ryu".
quote:
They look cool, though. Her normal counters work perfectly against a newbie player. But against an experienced player, hah. Good luck. They ALL have a slight delay between the block animation, and the beginning of the counter. By then, the opponent would've already recovered, and have time to block. That is, assuming they did a quick move first, of course. Her death stopping combos? Huh? Since when did it EVER do that?
The normal counters do a small pause to the opponent and player a well executed counter will connect REGARDLESS of the skill of the opponent and if you don't want to hit the opponent there is also the other counter that will get you behind the opponent for a chance to strike. And when they connect you can follow up for another attack! Baiken wasn't given options like that before.
quote:
Her running block can easily be stopped. Ever heard of a sweep, or a low attack? Perfect offense against it.
You use it when the opponent is rushing or playing a poking game...what you are implying is someone just blindly uses it...oh let's realize that Baiken never had this ability before! Never before could you safely rush an opponent.
quote:
I really don't care about convincing you. To each, their own, after all.
You could convince me if you had a good argument to show that GGX Baiken is inferior to GG Baiken. Some reasons other than an OTG Youzansen or your opinion on her counters. I too once upon a time thought that GGX Baiken was nowhere as good as GG Baiken but then when I actually learned how to apply her moves into battle and abuse them I realize how much better she is.
|
| Beast of Fire
17th Post
New Customer
| "Re(1):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Mon 27 May 20:06
quote:
GG Baiken had-OTG Yoizansen, Ability to do a Triple Tatamigaeshi without a special mode, Kamaitachi is a long range attack and Tsurane Sanzu Watashi is unblockable...she had some very effective combos but very few.
Your point? Number of combos does NOT matter. It's how effective they are. GG Baiken has easy, deadly combos. In fact, the fewer combos necessary, the better. Efficiency is top priority. I use no more than three or four different combos during any match. I know tons, but I don't need them all.
quote:
BFD if you ask me...Baiken is all offensive and nothing else!
Which was absolutely PERFECT for the setting she was in. That game was a total offensive nightmare, and she was one of the dictating rulers of that nightmare. In comparison to her position and ability in GGX, she was hella better back then. GGX Baiken can't go any higher than third tier.
quote:
GGX Baiken who has-Suzuran a rush move with auto-guard properties so you can rush you opponent for an offensive
That only works against someone who does random pokes. If I use short chains and FDC with Sol, I'll blast your ass whenever you use that move.
quote:
special counters that attack high and low or allow you to get around the opponent
Can't be applied efficiently. The air counter isn't guaranteed against a jumper, and if they decide to empty-jump and throw you when they land, you're in deep shit. The Kick counter is not effective because your opponent can move before you throw anything out on their other side; they'll run or block. The Slash counter is the most reliable one, and even then it's not enough to make up for her lack of other defensive measures. The only time that it's safe to use the Punch counter is if you block an uppercut-type move or a standing move from taller opponents like Potemkin.
quote:
Baku overrides(the super counters) that alter your opponent in a number of ways(lowering their defense, stopping overrides, etc) let's realize they are ALL easy to execute and have mad priority
And BOOM, your opponent clams up for nine seconds and you don't get shit off. Nice waste of a Tension gauge which could have gone towards an actual combo.
quote:
Tsurane Sanzu Watashi is no longer unblockable but is better in combos.
You forgot to mention that it does way less damage now. Nice going, smart guy.
quote:
Oh let's not forget that in this version Garyoutensi...her Instant Kill it can become a combo ender!
Only if you're hella lucky and get a counterhit against someone who jumped in at the wrong time. If you activate your IK, you'd damn well better have your opponent dizzy, or you'll never get the chance to use it. They'll simply CLAM UP and let your life drain down to nothing, then tick you to death.
quote:
This isn't even counting the GG Mode Baiken which has all of the GGX abilities PLUS anti-Air(that isn't part of her counters) and a triple Tatami Gaeshi that doesn't need to charge up.
Please, don't even try that garbage. GG Mode is for lamers. Let's be straightforward about this.
quote:
GGX Baiken was an offensive and defensive powerhouse which comes in VERY handy against opponents which 90% of the time will take you on offensively
Baiken's offense is sub-par in comparison to the majority of the cast. Her lack of speed and few efficient combo starters make her an inefficient offensive character. She can pressure to some extent, but she lacks the ability to go all-out offense. And a defensive powerhouse? ARE YOU ON CRACK!? Her defense is horrid. No good air defense, crap stamina, and unreliable counters. Yeah, right, a defensive powerhouse.
quote:
Baiken as the ability to adjust to her opponent because she has a diamond hard defense!
See above; what are you on, man? Any good GGX player will be on Baiken like white on rice; she can't take the pressure. As long as you're smart about your offense and don't just randomly throw out moves, you're FINE. Baiken can't touch you.
quote:
She also has the ability to trap, pressure and defend with just ONE move...her Tatami Geshi.
Tatami Gaeshi is good for traps, I'll admit, but only the air version. And if you get predictable with your Air Tatamis, you'll get wasted. Someone will blow right through it with an uppercut and you'll be flat on your back. Defensively, it only goes so far.
quote:
Or make someone like Potemkin take damage like Chipp or stop Dizzy from using an override! I am willing to argue that she can dominate a match BETTER than her previous incarnation.
Garbage. Her counter super moves aren't worth the Tension expenditure. GGX Baiken won't dominate the match against a smart opponent; she simply has too many openings, and one messup will get you creamed, what with her low stamina. GG Baiken, on the other hand, could rush and pressure so well that you'd never get a chance to attack her, and she could easily kill you without any effort.
quote:
So what if she is slightly slower or she does slightly less damage!? I don't think that matters very much when you compare it to her superior combo ability and priority in multiple purpose situations...good trade if you ask me...I'll take priority and versatility over power and speed any day.
You don't have any idea of what you're talking about, man. SLIGHTLY slower? She's a proverbial snail now in comparison to her old self. I still do NOT understand why Arc felt that such a light character with such low stamina should move only a little faster than Potemkin or Faust. And her damage potential is so much lower now. She has very little in the way of damaging combos. Superior combo ability!? What rubbish! Her comboability is so sad now. And the damage that she does in combos is nowhere near as good. And her only "priority" in situations is her priority while jumping on your head with HS and Tatami Gaeshi, and I severely doubt that that is enough to make her as good as the old days.
quote:
No bloody way ANYONE could convince me that GG Baiken is better than GGX Baiken......NEVER!
So you openly admit that you're a hardhead that won't change his mind, even when presented with logic? Pity, I used to think you were an intelligent person. Well, even though you've made it clear that my arguing is a waste of time to you, I might as well continue on. I finish what I start.
quote:
Why is GGX version inferior? Couldn't pull off her counters!?
No, because HER COUNTERS ARE SHIT, YOU DUMBASS!!!! THEY SUCK, CAN'T YOU REALIZE THAT!?
quote:
Hell GGX Baiken even looks better than GG Baiken!
Good God, EVERYONE looks better in GGX, you blockheaded moron. Shut your mouth. You are full of shit.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
|
| Beast of Fire
18th Post
New Customer
| "Re(3):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Mon 27 May 20:32
quote:
Yeah...they are strong but then again EVERYONE was strong in the first Guilty Gear. But GGX Baiken DOES have better combos and more of them.
Oh please. Show me some of these "better" combos. I doubt you could even come up with one.
quote:
You would need to combo it for it to be effective...nobody is just going to stand there and let you hit them with it...and while you are trying to connect it a Sol or Chipp would just bumrush you.
Good God, man, what exactly are you saying!? Comboing a Youzansen in GG was easy shit (comboing ANYTHING was easy shit in GG), and once you hit it off, you had an infinite, right there. Yay, onward to my next opponent!
quote:
I disagree...a tatami can stop attacks, defend you, trap the opponent, juggle multiple times
Tatamis can't juggle multiple times unless you have your opponent's guard meter filled, and if they put up any sort of good offensive, you'll never get the chance. And if you like to Tatami so much, someone will just dash at you and FD at the last second, then blast you while you're in recovery. Idiot. You can't just Tatami everything, it's not invincible.
quote:
up the damage and chance for a dizzy and it's effective on both the air and and ground offensively and defensively
The air version is supremely better than the ground version, especially for offense. The ground version doesn't combo well, and it has recovery. The air version also won't help you at all if your opponent hits you before it touches them; if so, say goodbye to your precious Tatami as it vanishes.
quote:
oh did I mention it's good for flooring the opponent as well?
Recoverable as all fuck. You're better off going for her sweep or a throw.
quote:
How about it's ability to link to other special attacks or supers? How about if timed well you can't ukemi?
That is GARBAGE, period. Your opponents probably can't ukemi for shit if you get them with that sort of crap; either that or you're playing around with the CPU in Training Mode too much, which is well-known for not doing Ukemi all the time.
quote:
Really? Well if you depend on that move so much no wonder you think GGX Baiken is inferior because you OBVIOUSLY "forgot" to mention what you can do with a tatami in GGX.
What you can do with a Tatami in GGX: Not all that much. And you could do most of the same crap with it in GG, fool.
quote:
Baiken in GGX can juggle your ass till you are dizzy and then link her instant kill...and you CAN apply that easy...who needs an infinite when you can do a 100% combo in a matter of seconds?
Gimme an example of one of these magical juggle combos that you keep pulling out of your ass. Most of them are probably very, very escapable.
quote:
Guilty Gear IS an aggressive game however you don't get a negative penalty unless you are constantly defending or running away. If you are playing Baiken in GGX and counter you won't get negative penalty unless all you are doing is turtling and countering...however the beauty with Baiken in that game is that you can go from a strong offense to an equally strong if not stronger defense a the drop of a hat AND given the fact that the vast majority of your opponents will rush you her easy to execute and high priority counters will allow you do dominate the opponent to where you can even handicap them.
You've never seen a good Chipp or Sol player rush before, have you? FDC + Chipp or Sol = dead Baiken. Her laughable defense can't save her from pokes with practically no recovery time.
quote:
They are useless? ARE YOU #&*(&(@ Joking!? You must be...because you would realize that against any move with lag/no quick recovery they will connect!
And THEN WHAT, genius? You get to play keepaway with someone for a few seconds, and end up wasting a Tension gauge. Hooray, let's do the idiot dance! I gave up 50% Tension so my enemy could run away from me for a while!! I'm a good player!!!
quote:
8-9 seconds not enough for you!?? Oh let's realize that on a damage scale one Baku override "Hou" will lower the opponents stamina to where a simple combo from Baiken can do more than most overrides...even on Potemkin!
Good luck laying a finger on your opponent, dipshit.
quote:
Don't want the opponent(like Chipp) to jump? Use "Ki".
Teleport.zor. Jumping isn't the only method of evasion, fool.
quote:
Don't want the opponent(like Johnny) to use specials? Use "Rin."
Still have to deal with pokes that are vastly superior to your own, and a defense that you can't crack. Bad example, pal.
quote:
Want the opponent(like Dizzy) to deal less damage? Use "Ryu".
Oh yay, I deal less damage. Big deal, considering that I'm still hitting you way more than you're hitting me.
quote:
The normal counters do a small pause to the opponent and player a well executed counter will connect REGARDLESS of the skill of the opponent and if you don't want to hit the opponent there is also the other counter that will get you behind the opponent for a chance to strike.
Whatever. Good offense won't allow you to do that. Anyone with half-a-brain knows not to go on a random pressure fest against any Baiken player. Assuming your opponent actually knows anything about what they're doing, your counters won't do a damn thing. And switching sides? Doesn't work. Simply too much recovery time on the dash.
quote:
And when they connect you can follow up for another attack! Baiken wasn't given options like that before.
Cuz she didn't NEED THEM, idiot. She had plenty of fun smothering her opponent with more than just her huge bust; a good Baiken player in GG would kill you in a few seconds flat, and you'd never touch her.
quote:
You use it when the opponent is rushing or playing a poking game...what you are implying is someone just blindly uses it...oh let's realize that Baiken never had this ability before! Never before could you safely rush an opponent.
Uh, you CAN'T safely rush your opponent, you dumbfuck. Can't you understand what she was saying!? Low attacks blow right through that POS move, and she could always get thrown right out of it. It's NOT safe; one false move and you'd be on the receiving end of a combo that would more than likely shave off over half of your life.
quote:
You could convince me if you had a good argument to show that GGX Baiken is inferior to GG Baiken. Some reasons other than an OTG Youzansen or your opinion on her counters. I too once upon a time thought that GGX Baiken was nowhere as good as GG Baiken but then when I actually learned how to apply her moves into battle and abuse them I realize how much better she is.
All I have to say is that you have a lot more to learn about this game, which is sad, considering how long you've been playing it. And you ALREADY said that you'd never change your mind, so the point of making a good argument is moot, isn't it? You dense little shit.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
|
| Kuro
4th Post
New Customer
| "Re(3):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Mon 27 May 21:28
quote:
Really? Well if you depend on that move so much no wonder you think GGX Baiken is inferior because you OBVIOUSLY "forgot" to mention what you can do with a tatami in
GGX.
Why would I want to use her GGX version? It sucks! It's a pretty good move for aerial people, AND it chains to her air combos well....but aside from that, what? You can only do it in the air, unless you're willing to do the annoying combo for "instant" air moves. I admit that the aerial tatami is pretty effective against people. But, it still lacks the priority of a Yousansen with ZERO delay time. It can easily be ran under. Or blocked. And while you're still recovering, you'll be on the receiving end of my Dizzy FDCs. Not too pretty, if you ask me.
quote:
Baiken in GGX can juggle your ass till you are dizzy and then link her instant kill...and you CAN apply that easy...who needs an infinite when you can do a 100% combo in a matter of seconds?
Unlike your outrageous claim of her tatami infinite, you WON'T be able stop her Yousansen onslaught.
quote:
Guilty Gear IS an aggressive game however you don't get a negative penalty unless you are constantly defending or running away. If you are playing Baiken in GGX and counter you won't get negative penalty unless all you are doing is turtling and countering...however the beauty with Baiken in that game is that you can go from a strong offense to an equally strong if not stronger defense a the drop of a hat AND given the fact that the vast majority of your opponents will rush you her easy to execute and high priority counters will allow you do dominate the opponent to where you can even handicap them.
What?! Will skilled players really rush Baiken KNOWING she has those "high priority" counters? Don't make me laugh. They're definitely not invincible. Far from it. Easily blockable, and once blocked, your Baikens ass is grass. Baiken is awful when it comes to a good offense. Nothing compared to characters like Sol. She takes damage like nobody elses buisness, and her damage ratio pales in comparison to others. She's slow, add to the fact that her stamina is crap crap crap, you've got a VERY bad combination. In GG,she was at least average speed, and her tatami (there, I'm using this move) can do JUST as much as you could in GGX.
quote:
They are useless? ARE YOU #&*(&(@ Joking!? You must be...because you would realize that against any move with lag/no quick recovery they will connect!
No, I'm not. Who in their right minds would do a special/no lag move KNOWING Baiken could pull off such a "handicap"? I'm assuming the opponent has half a brain not to be so reckless.
quote:
8-9 seconds not enough for you!?? Oh let's realize that on a damage scale one Baku override "Hou" will lower the opponents stamina to where a simple combo from Baiken can do more than most overrides...even on Potemkin! Just imagine what you could do with an RCing combo or something. Don't want the opponent(like Chipp) to jump? Use "Ki". Don't want the opponent(like Johnny) to use specials? Use "Rin." Want the opponent(like Dizzy) to deal less damage? Use "Ryu".
Excellent! 8 or 9 second will be more than enough time for me to hammer Baiken down, despite my handicaps. Just because I inflict less damage, but it's still more than what you're doing to me. My defense might be low, but I can still keep away from the screen because of Baikens lack of projectiles, and speed. I might not be able to special, but I've still got pretty good normal moves that'll inflict damage. Damn it! I can't jump. Oh well, this isn't a VS game, so aerial moves don't really have much priority. I'll simply ground your Baiken with everything else.
|
| Shin ATproof 520th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(5):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Mon 27 May 22:22
quote:
Your point? Number of combos does NOT matter. It's how effective they are. GG Baiken has easy, deadly combos. In fact, the fewer combos necessary, the better. Efficiency is top priority. I use no more than three or four different combos during any match. I know tons, but I don't need them all.
The only reason why Baiken did so much damage with her combos in GG1 is because the damage was high and the life bars were short! Yes Baiken obliterated her opponents fast...NO SURPRISE! GGX Baiken's combos are easy and deadly as well and she has MORE of them! Easy to do combos + High damage + Large number of them=Better version.
quote:
Which was absolutely PERFECT for the setting she was in. That game was a total offensive nightmare, and she was one of the dictating rulers of that nightmare. In comparison to her position and ability in GGX, she was hella better back then. GGX Baiken can't go any higher than third tier.
A fully offensive Baiken was good in GG...but a fully offensive Baiken in GGX is not. GGX Baiken has versatility. Her defense is just as strong if not stronger than her offense...her defense is a major part of her offense which is good given that nearly the entire cast in GGX is offensive. I already explained why...and about tiers...I don't believe there are any in GGX and if there are the advantages are so benign that it doesn't matter.
quote:
That only works against someone who does random pokes. If I use short chains and FDC with Sol, I'll blast your ass whenever you use that move.
Hence why an expert Baiken player would not blindly rush in with that move but wait for you to use a laggy move.
quote:
Can't be applied efficiently. The air counter isn't guaranteed against a jumper, and if they decide to empty-jump and throw you when they land, you're in deep shit. The Kick counter is not effective because your opponent can move before you throw anything out on their other side; they'll run or block. The Slash counter is the most reliable one, and even then it's not enough to make up for her lack of other defensive measures. The only time that it's safe to use the Punch counter is if you block an uppercut-type move or a standing move from taller opponents like Potemkin.
It can be applied very well. The air counters is guranteed against moves with lag like a slash or hardslash. You don't want to use it against a Chipp player using a punch or something. A good Baiken player would know that. The kick counter is appied with the same rules of attack timing as the air counter...the only one that is different is the the one where she runs behind the opponent. Also I'd like to see you explain her "lack" of defensive measures.
quote:
And BOOM, your opponent clams up for nine seconds and you don't get shit off. Nice waste of a Tension gauge which could have gone towards an actual combo.
You turtle after the attack? That's good for Baiken. She will just trap, zone and pressure your ass till you guard meter fills and make it even harder on the opponent...not to mention you risk getting a negative penalty from being a turtle. Also Baiken has a clear advantage if she disables jumping or specials...something that quite a few characters need to play an effective keep away game.
quote:
You forgot to mention that it does way less damage now. Nice going, smart guy.
And you forgot to mention that all the attacks in GG1 to GGX are "weaker" but that is probably due to the small life bars or high damage(whichever it is) your logic is faulty for it's like saying "Kyo's Orochi Nagi is weaker in KoF96 compared to KoF95" No duh! Given that damage was at an all time high in that game...matches lasted for mere seconds.
quote:
Only if you're hella lucky and get a counterhit against someone who jumped in at the wrong time. If you activate your IK, you'd damn well better have your opponent dizzy, or you'll never get the chance to use it. They'll simply CLAM UP and let your life drain down to nothing, then tick you to death.
You need to dizzy the opponent? Case in point is that GGX Baiken can dizzy an opponent very easy for her juggling and flooring abilities are the reason...hell it's even been shown that you can start up an IK then use it as a ender even when the opponent is dizzy and it will connect and once again turtling against Baiken is a bad idea.
quote:
Please, don't even try that garbage. GG Mode is for lamers. Let's be straightforward about this.
....WTF!? That made absolutely no sense at all...
quote:
Baiken's offense is sub-par in comparison to the majority of the cast. Her lack of speed and few efficient combo starters make her an inefficient offensive character. She can pressure to some extent, but she lacks the ability to go all-out offense. And a defensive powerhouse? ARE YOU ON CRACK!? Her defense is horrid. No good air defense, crap stamina, and unreliable counters. Yeah, right, a defensive powerhouse.
It's subpar? I think not! She can poke, cancel, juggle, floor better than most. She doesn't lack any speed...she's faster than Ky, Axl, Potemkin and Johnny...she's no Chipp or Milla...but then again...who is? She has good combo starters in the air and on the ground and they cover a large disance and come out fast. She ALMOST lacks an "all out" offensive it it wasn't for the fast that she has some air superiority with Yousansen and tatami(tatami rain anyone?) and that's just for starters. The only real con with Baiken is her stamina...she is not as bad a Chipp but then again...who is? But let me remind you that she can increase the damage onto the opponent or lower their strength with her Baku overrides...and they ARE in high priority you just need to know how to use them at the right time...not whenever which is what you are implying. Her air and ground defense is very solid and proof of that is Baiken is one of the few characters that can get out of a corner or most traps they easiest and it's because of her offensive and defensive moves.
quote:
See above; what are you on, man? Any good GGX player will be on Baiken like white on rice; she can't take the pressure. As long as you're smart about your offense and don't just randomly throw out moves, you're FINE. Baiken can't touch you.
You are implying that a Baiken player will turtle...why would one do that? Anyone knows that with Baiken you should only guard against your opponent only when it is necessary. You can't turtle with her because sooner or later your guard meter will be filled and you will eat high damage from a special or combo and risk getting a negative penalty which will screw with your strat. Also if you are beubg pressured counter! Sure your counters can have a drawback for they can have window of vulnerability...but any good Baiken player knows that you can't counter everything that comes out from your opponent. You have to learn to use the counters at the right time for the right moves with a little bit of common sense! Are you cornered? Are you being poked? FDC that! Is the opponent jumping in with a slash or special? Use a counter...hell use one of the super counters! Pick a version of the Baku that will put the match at you advantage and use it...you will not only push the opponent back you will have plenty of time to advance and start your own pressure game! This is just part of what she can do when being pressured!
quote:
Tatami Gaeshi is good for traps, I'll admit, but only the air version. And if you get predictable with your Air Tatamis, you'll get wasted. Someone will blow right through it with an uppercut and you'll be flat on your back. Defensively, it only goes so far
An effective tatami rain will give the oppoent very few options to counter. Let's also realize that Baiken do crossups before the tatami lands. If the opponent tries to prevent you from doing a tatami rain...do a Yousansen...lol..."forgot" about that huh? That's not even counting her abilities on the ground with the tatami or how you can ALMOST do a Yousansen as if it was OTG.
quote:
Garbage. Her counter super moves aren't worth the Tension expenditure. GGX Baiken won't dominate the match against a smart opponent; she simply has too many openings, and one messup will get you creamed, what with her low stamina. GG Baiken, on the other hand, could rush and pressure so well that you'd never get a chance to attack her, and she could easily kill you without any effort.
Says you? LOL not good enough reason if you ask me...her Baku override are invaluable. She can and will have a VERY good chance to dominate the match regardless of skill level in the hands of a good player. He has very little openings for she is not all offense and it's pretty hard to "mess up" if you know what you are doing. I agree with her low stamina but her override can change that [snaps fingers] just like that. Also GG Baiken was fully offensive and could handle characters like that back then...but now? She needed a bit more and ASW adjusted her just for that...if they made her totally offensive like in GG AND have her defense in GGX she would be WAY WAY overbalanced. As for "killing the opponent without any effort" taking out anyone with at least decent without effort is nothing short of amazing lol.
quote:
You don't have any idea of what you're talking about, man. SLIGHTLY slower? She's a proverbial snail now in comparison to her old self. I still do NOT understand why Arc felt that such a light character with such low stamina should move only a little faster than Potemkin or Faust. And her damage potential is so much lower now. She has very little in the way of damaging combos. Superior combo ability!? What rubbish! Her comboability is so sad now. And the damage that she does in combos is nowhere near as good. And her only "priority" in situations is her priority while jumping on your head with HS and Tatami Gaeshi, and I severely doubt that that is enough to make her as good as the old days.
The only reall difference between GG Baiken and GGX Baiken is the speed if the Yousansen. But I agree GG Baiken is faster but only slightly and Baiken moves MUCH faster than Faust of Potemkin...what GGX are you playing? Also we have been through the damage argument before...by you logic everyone in GG is better than their GGX version...but I do argue about the superior combo ability and I already went over some of the reasons why...your only argument is "well the ones she had in GG did a lot of damage" and you never explain why that is so and by your faulty logic that means one version is better than the other and you barely state a reason to back up why you think so other than your personal opinion on the matter.
quote:
So you openly admit that you're a hardhead that won't change his mind, even when presented with logic? Pity, I used to think you were an intelligent person. Well, even though you've made it clear that my arguing is a waste of time to you, I might as well continue on. I finish what I start.
If me being a "hardhead that won't change his mind" because from what I have seen the only reason or evidence as to why I should think otherwise is by someones personal opinion of the character and moves rather than the proof of the priority of the moves the character has and other gameplay factors then yes...I'm hardheaded. But what you have stated thus far is your own personal logic/opinion which is not a good enough reason to convince anyone.
quote:
No, because HER COUNTERS ARE SHIT, YOU DUMBASS!!!! THEY SUCK, CAN'T YOU REALIZE THAT!?
That's your opinion...not a fact...care to actually back up that statement about the counters? I'm waiting...I have been waiting but all you seem to do I say "they suck" and then insult me.
quote:
Good God, EVERYONE looks better in GGX, you blockheaded moron. Shut your mouth. You are full of shit.
Yare yare daze....
|
| Shin ATproof 521th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(6):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Mon 27 May 22:24
quote:
Oh please. Show me some of these "better" combos. I doubt you could even come up with one.
Here's an easy one:
s.S -> Tatamigaeshix2 ->TsuraneSanzuWatashix2->Tatamigaeshi->s.F+HS
quote:
Good God, man, what exactly are you saying!? Comboing a Youzansen in GG was easy shit (comboing ANYTHING was easy shit in GG), and once you hit it off, you had an infinite, right there. Yay, onward to my next opponent!
May it be easy to combo or not was not the issue there...it was simply stating to make it usefull you would have to combo it...however in GGX you got to combo it as well to make it effective...ASW balanced the game more so infinites are not so easy but who needs an infinite when you can do a 100% combo?
quote:
Tatamis can't juggle multiple times unless you have your opponent's guard meter filled, and if they put up any sort of good offensive, you'll never get the chance. And if you like to Tatami so much, someone will just dash at you and FD at the last second, then blast you while you're in recovery. Idiot. You can't just Tatami everything, it's not invincible.
You can juggle multiple times regardless of a filled guard meter or not. And given that at tatami will cancel attacks it becomes a good offensive tactic that can be applied into a combo. You imply that someone just blindly use tatami's...who would do that other than a novice?
quote:
The air version is supremely better than the ground version, especially for offense. The ground version doesn't combo well, and it has recovery. The air version also won't help you at all if your opponent hits you before it touches them; if so, say goodbye to your precious Tatami as it vanishes.
Since the ability to ukemi comes LONG after the move connects it becomes a great combo starter and ender(for flooring heh grassmat...flooring...heheheh) if first used OTG also a tatami rain is what pressures an opponent...it gives the opponent little time to counter and really only try to evade...but of course like before...you wouldn't want to blindly use the move.
quote:
Recoverable as all fuck. You're better off going for her sweep or a throw.
Tatami will do more damage...and may I ask how do you throw a floored opponent?
quote:
That is GARBAGE, period. Your opponents probably can't ukemi for shit if you get them with that sort of crap; either that or you're playing around with the CPU in Training Mode too much, which is well-known for not doing Ukemi all the time.
Try it...you can't ukemi until right after Baiken is able to jump at you for an attack...it takes practice but see for yourself sometime...also when I play training mode I set stuff like Ukemi and Guardmeter to max...it let's me know how much time I have to attack with a dizzied opponent or what moves or combos can be ukemied out of.
quote:
What you can do with a Tatami in GGX: Not all that much. And you could do most of the same crap with it in GG, fool
I just listed what you can do...several times [sigh]
quote:
Gimme an example of one of these magical juggle combos that you keep pulling out of your ass. Most of them are probably very, very escapable.
There is nothing magical about them...and I don't pull them out of my ass...I pull them out on a joystick or gamepad...with skill...and most are inescapable because you can't ukemi...remember no Ukemi=no escape you're just in for the ride till I am done with you(I'm gonna take you for a ride doodoodoodododo).
quote:
You've never seen a good Chipp or Sol player rush before, have you? FDC + Chipp or Sol = dead Baiken. Her laughable defense can't save her from pokes with practically no recovery time.
I AM a good Chipp and Sol player for Baiken, Sol, Chipp and Potemkin are my best characters. Chipps FDCs...BFD most of his attacks can be stopped by Baiken's offensive specials and he DOES have large recovery time in most of his normals and quite a few of his specials. Sol has more recovery time in the same way...hell...he's worse than Chipp in this field...however his overhead specials are his real ticket to pressuring Baiken...but even then...
quote:
And THEN WHAT, genius? You get to play keepaway with someone for a few seconds, and end up wasting a Tension gauge. Hooray, let's do the idiot dance! I gave up 50% Tension so my enemy could run away from me for a while!! I'm a good player!!!
Question...a couple.
1)Where did I say play a keep away game?
2)Why in god's name would you WANT to play a keep away game with Baiken? You don't even want to turtle!
You know why I asked those questions? BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED TO!
quote:
Good luck laying a finger on your opponent, dipshit.
Oh wow! You sure told me! [rolleyes]
quote:
Teleport.zor. Jumping isn't the only method of evasion, fool.
Are you ACTUALLY suggesting one depend and turn to teleporting as an effective form of evasion!? [cracks a smile and bites his tongue] I know Chipp like the back of my freak'n hand and without his jumping Chipp is like a fish out of water.
quote:
Still have to deal with pokes that are vastly superior to your own, and a defense that you can't crack. Bad example, pal.
Ever tried to play Johnny without his specials!? Without his specials for about 9 seconds he becomes Baiken's personal manbitch. No keep away, no zoning and best of all NO MIST TRAPS!
quote:
Oh yay, I deal less damage. Big deal, considering that I'm still hitting you way more than you're hitting me.
With a Dizzy dealing low damage you can ALMOST blindly rush whail on Dizzy LOL...Baiken becomes like Potemkin...she can actually take the damage and deliver more with much gain and little risk.
quote:
Whatever. Good offense won't allow you to do that. Anyone with half-a-brain knows not to go on a random pressure fest against any Baiken player. Assuming your opponent actually knows anything about what they're doing, your counters won't do a damn thing. And switching sides? Doesn't work. Simply too much recovery time on the dash.
Name ONE character that doesn't have ANY attacks with some lag!...YOU CAN'T! No character has that kind of advantage. No character can come in like you suggest and not expect to be hit with a counter or at the very least nullify the attempt to hit.
quote:
Cuz she didn't NEED THEM, idiot. She had plenty of fun smothering her opponent with more than just her huge bust; a good Baiken player in GG would kill you in a few seconds flat, and you'd never touch her.
If GGX played like GG then you would be right and GGX Baiken would be inferior but given that GGX Baiken REGARDLESS of gameplay now has a solid offense AND defense and the latter is so useful that it can be considered an offensive tactic for you can followup with a large variety of attack patterns. Versatility is what GGX Baiken has...and I say that is why she is a better version.
quote:
Uh, you CAN'T safely rush your opponent, you dumbfuck. Can't you understand what she was saying!? Low attacks blow right through that POS move, and she could always get thrown right out of it. It's NOT safe; one false move and you'd be on the receiving end of a combo that would more than likely shave off over half of your life.
Um you can safely rush the opponent...just not blindly like you can with say...Chipp or Jam. And you use her rush move to counter attacks...that's it's point...it allows you to get in close with very minimal risk and with that there is very little chance the opponent will have time to counter and then combo you...because you are nullifying/countering the attack for a rush in attack.
quote:
All I have to say is that you have a lot more to learn about this game, which is sad, considering how long you've been playing it. And you ALREADY said that you'd never change your mind, so the point of making a good argument is moot, isn't it? You dense little shit.
Says you...also I would be inclined to change my mind if you actually had something viable to share with this "debate" which it really isn't...it's you ranting about your opinion while insulting me for not agreeing with you.
|
| Shin ATproof 522th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(7):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Mon 27 May 22:25
quote:
Why would I want to use her GGX version? It sucks! It's a pretty good move for aerial people, AND it chains to her air combos well....but aside from that, what? You can only do it in the air, unless you're willing to do the annoying combo for "instant" air moves. I admit that the aerial tatami is pretty effective against people. But, it still lacks the priority of a Yousansen with ZERO delay time. It can easily be ran under. Or blocked. And while you're still recovering, you'll be on the receiving end of my Dizzy FDCs. Not too pretty, if you ask me.
If her tatami in GGX sucks...please explain why you think so. "It sucks because just because" is not an answer I am going to accept and I say that the priority with a GGX Tatami is as good as Yousansen in GG. A tatami rain will pressure the opponent for a crossup or a trap or you can zone the opponent. On the ground it can counter attacks and juggle the opponent for a combo. It's not a very easy move to evade if well place or well timed and Dizzy has it as bad as most...however that is not to say Dizzy also has her own tricks that are just as effective.
quote:
Unlike your outrageous claim of her tatami infinite, you WON'T be able stop her Yousansen onslaught.
Tatami infinite? Where did I state such a thing? I mentioned a 100%...a 100% and an infinite are two different things.
quote:
What?! Will skilled players really rush Baiken KNOWING she has those "high priority" counters? Don't make me laugh. They're definitely not invincible. Far from it. Easily blockable, and once blocked, your Baikens ass is grass. Baiken is awful when it comes to a good offense. Nothing compared to characters like Sol. She takes damage like nobody elses buisness, and her damage ratio pales in comparison to others. She's slow, add to the fact that her stamina is crap crap crap, you've got a VERY bad combination. In GG,she was at least average speed, and her tatami (there, I'm using this move) can do JUST as much as you could in GGX.
I didn't say they were incvincible...I stated they are very effective and they are not easily blockable unless the opponent attacks with a move that have have a very small or no lag...however that is NOT an effective form of getting in an attack or combo. The counters are not easily blocked unless you do as I said before however a good Baiken player would know when to use a counter and what kind. Also comparing her offense to Sol's is a moot point given that to take on a Sol offense you switch to Baiken's defense which can become an offense. Yes she has bad stamina but that can be changed and even then it's not all that important. She isn't slow...but she is slower that some characters. In GG1 she was only slightly faster and you could not do nearly as much as you could with a tatami in GG as you can in GGX.
quote:
No, I'm not. Who in their right minds would do a special/no lag move KNOWING Baiken could pull off such a "handicap"? I'm assuming the opponent has half a brain not to be so reckless.
Well given that nobody is going to win against Baiken with just pokes or punches...you figure out why the super counters are effective an invaluable...I already explained why several times before.
quote:
Excellent! 8 or 9 second will be more than enough time for me to hammer Baiken down, despite my handicaps. Just because I inflict less damage, but it's still more than what you're doing to me. My defense might be low, but I can still keep away from the screen because of Baikens lack of projectiles, and speed. I might not be able to special, but I've still got pretty good normal moves that'll inflict damage. Damn it! I can't jump. Oh well, this isn't a VS game, so aerial moves don't really have much priority. I'll simply ground your Baiken with everything else.
With no jump characters like Chipp and Millia are at a great disadvantage since they can't evade nearly as well as they need to. With no specials characters like Johnny and Zato are up the creek without a paddle because they can't play keep away or use their almost require traps and zoning. With a lowered strength or stamina characters like Potemkin and Dizzy become sitting ducks to some of Baiken rushing tactics and combos. With the Baku overrides you can make characters below her level.
|
| Kuro
5th Post
New Customer
| "Re(8):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Mon 27 May 23:08
quote:
If her tatami in GGX sucks...please explain why you think so. "It sucks because just because" is not an answer I am going to accept and I say that the priority with a GGX Tatami is as good as Yousansen in GG. A tatami rain will pressure the opponent for a crossup or a trap or you can zone the opponent. On the ground it can counter attacks and juggle the opponent for a combo. It's not a very easy move to evade if well place or well timed and Dizzy has it as bad as most...however that is not to say Dizzy also has her own tricks that are just as effective.
What are you babbling about this time? I'm talking about her YOUSANSEN in GGX. NOT Tatami Gaeshi. I've repeatedly said that the Tatami gaeshi in GGX DOES have priority. Are you blind?
quote:
I didn't say they were incvincible...I stated they are very effective and they are not easily blockable unless the opponent attacks with a move that have have a very small or no lag...however that is NOT an effective form of getting in an attack or combo. The counters are not easily blocked unless you do as I said before however a good Baiken player would know when to use a counter and what kind. Also comparing her offense to Sol's is a moot point given that to take on a Sol offense you switch to Baiken's defense which can become an offense. Yes she has bad stamina but that can be changed and even then it's not all that important. She isn't slow...but she is slower that some characters. In GG1 she was only slightly faster and you could not do nearly as much as you could with a tatami in GG as you can in GGX.
Newsflash: Baikens defensive properties won't do ANYTHING to a skilled Sol player. If you're so good with him, you should know this. Sol has more than enough mix up games, and combos to confuse Baiken. By defense, I'm assuming that you use tatamis cautiously, and put A LOT of emphasis on her counters. It's no good. An experienced player has the knowhow to get around it. Both her counters, and tatami gaeshis. I'm sure BoF can explain more in detail.
quote:
With no jump characters like Chipp and Millia are at a great disadvantage since they can't evade nearly as well as they need to.
That's not true at all. Millia can still do part of her disk trap even without being able to jump. She's also fast enough to effectively avoid the slow Baiken for the given amount of time. Chipp can simply teleport away. That is, if we're talking about playing defensively.
quote:
With a lowered strength or stamina characters like Potemkin and Dizzy become sitting ducks to some of Baiken rushing tactics and combos.
Evidently, you forgot about Dizzys plathora of projectiles, triple air jumps, double air dashes, and high damaging combos. What can Baiken do against a skilled player (with her defense down, no less) that can run circles around her?
|
| Shin ATproof 527th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(9):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Mon 27 May 23:45
quote:
What are you babbling about this time? I'm talking about her YOUSANSEN in GGX. NOT Tatami Gaeshi. I've repeatedly said that the Tatami gaeshi in GGX DOES have priority. Are you blind?
Yare yare...
quote:
Newsflash: Baikens defensive properties won't do ANYTHING to a skilled Sol player. If you're so good with him, you should know this. Sol has more than enough mix up games, and combos to confuse Baiken. By defense, I'm assuming that you use tatamis cautiously, and put A LOT of emphasis on her counters. It's no good. An experienced player has the knowhow to get around it. Both her counters, and tatami gaeshis. I'm sure BoF can explain more in detail.
Newsflash: You're wrong! Why? Sol is ridden with laggy moves.
Sakura is good against-basically all his normals, Bandit revolver
Zakuro is good against-Riot Stomp, Volcanic Viper, any jumping slash or Hard Slash and Bandit Revolver
Mawarikomi is good against-almost every attack he has(if not in Dragon Install mode) even Tyrant Rave
Disabling his specials will become useful if the Sol user is depending/using his specials a lot.
The game with Sol that you want to play on Baiken is a game of quick overheads and some of his specials that will break your guard with those moves and try to play a high/low game(and abuse things like ground viper and his sweep)...and as Sol you want keep your distance. The problem with Sol is that you will want to use jumping quite a bit to use stuff like the bandit revolver or volcanic viper to attempt to snuff out some of Baiken's air game. However Baiken can snuff out most of Sol's atttacks with a Yousansen or a well placed Tatamigaeshi and if she takes out his jumping ability half of Sol's game it out of action for a while.
^_^
quote:
That's not true at all. Millia can still do part of her disk trap even without being able to jump. She's also fast enough to effectively avoid the slow Baiken for the given amount of time. Chipp can simply teleport away. That is, if we're talking about playing defensively.
LOL Um...without the ability to jump to get around quickly and safely you are going to be more busy than a one legged man in an asskicking contest to try and land a Disk trap. Also Chipp has lag on that teleport move which makes it a very bad idea to try an play keep away with just that and Millia is not that fast to get away from a fully functional Baiken...I assure you.
quote:
Evidently, you forgot about Dizzys plathora of projectiles, triple air jumps, double air dashes, and high damaging combos. What can Baiken do against a skilled player (with her defense down, no less) that can run circles around her?
1)Double Jump and Jump cancel
2)Tatami rain tactics
3)Suzuran
4)canceling attacks with a tatami
5)Air superiority with Yousansen and Tatamigaeshi
It's going to be HARD to "run circles around Baiken" with those tricks and her moves and combos are going to be pretty useless with lowered strength or pressuring will be better for Baiken if her stamina is worse than Chipp's. Don't like that picture I painted? How about no specials? Dizzy becomes a flying punching bag. No Jump? she DEFINITELY won't be running circles around anyone.
|
| Beast of Fire
23th Post
New Customer
| "Re(6):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Tue 28 May 06:37:
quote:
The only reason why Baiken did so much damage with her combos in GG1 is because the damage was high and the life bars were short! Yes Baiken obliterated her opponents fast...NO SURPRISE! GGX Baiken's combos are easy and deadly as well and she has MORE of them! Easy to do combos + High damage + Large number of them=Better version.
WRONG. I have yet to see you even mention one of these combos. Stop BSing and gimme proof, now.
quote:
A fully offensive Baiken was good in GG...but a fully offensive Baiken in GGX is not.
Duh. They removed the majority of her offensive ability in GGX. Her offense SUCKS in GGX.
quote:
GGX Baiken has versatility. Her defense is just as strong if not stronger than her offense
I would say stronger, cuz her offense is horrible in GGX. Her defense ain't that good either, honestly. Versatility? Uh......no.
quote:
her defense is a major part of her offense which is good given that nearly the entire cast in GGX is offensive.
Her defense isn't good enough to hold off a REAL offense. Period.
quote:
I already explained why...
And I already rebutted. Give a more thorough explanation.
quote:
and about tiers...I don't believe there are any in GGX and if there are the advantages are so benign that it doesn't matter.
Keep dreaming in your own little fantasy world. There are tiers in EVERY fighting game, and there are most definitely tiers in GGX. You're telling me that Millia and Johnny are on the same level as Baiken, or Axl? Don't give me that crap. You need to play more, seriously.
quote:
Hence why an expert Baiken player would not blindly rush in with that move but wait for you to use a laggy move.
Keep waiting.
quote:
It can be applied very well. The air counters is guranteed against moves with lag like a slash or hardslash.
Again, no. Try it out a few more times. Doesn't always work. Especially against deep jump-ins.
quote:
You don't want to use it against a Chipp player using a punch or something.
Or anyone else using any other deep move......
quote:
A good Baiken player would know that.
I suspect that a good Baiken player probably doesn't use the counters very much at ALL.
quote:
The kick counter is appied with the same rules of attack timing as the air counter...the only one that is different is the the one where she runs behind the opponent.
Uh......that IS the kick counter, genius.
quote:
Also I'd like to see you explain her "lack" of defensive measures.
1. Counters are unreliable (highly).
2. Suzuran is very counterable
3. Tatami Gaeshi gets predictable, and is better on offense anyway.
There. Now are you gonna explain YOUR ridiculous statements, or are you gonna continue with the BS?
quote:
You turtle after the attack? That's good for Baiken. She will just trap, zone and pressure your ass till you guard meter fills and make it even harder on the opponent
Not turtle; run away. Easy. And in some cases, it isn't even necessary to run; if you remove specials or jumping, I can ground pressure with FDC and normals just fine. You accomplish nothing.
quote:
...not to mention you risk getting a negative penalty from being a turtle. Also Baiken has a clear advantage if she disables jumping or specials...something that quite a few characters need to play an effective keep away game.
If you disable jumping and I'm using Chipp or Millia, I can still slide past you with teleports or rolls. If you disable specials, I'm free to leap about as much as I please. Two options, both of them negative for you.
quote:
And you forgot to mention that all the attacks in GG1 to GGX are "weaker" but that is probably due to the small life bars or high damage(whichever it is) your logic is faulty for it's like saying "Kyo's Orochi Nagi is weaker in KoF96 compared to KoF95" No duh! Given that damage was at an all time high in that game...matches lasted for mere seconds.
Comparably weaker, damnit. Stop trying to use some backwards logic. Even with the damage differences, the move is still COMPARABLY WEAKER.
quote:
You need to dizzy the opponent? Case in point is that GGX Baiken can dizzy an opponent very easy for her juggling and flooring abilities are the reason
NO. Quit pulling this out of your ass and EXPLAIN something. Baiken has NO good juggling abilities, none.
quote:
hell it's even been shown that you can start up an IK then use it as a ender even when the opponent is dizzy and it will connect and once again turtling against Baiken is a bad idea.
That still REQUIRES A DIZZY!!! What is your point!? And I NEVER SAID TURTLE!!! "Clamming up" is the equivalent of stopping offensive measures and resorting to passive methods. This does NOT mean turtling, necessarily.
quote:
....WTF!? That made absolutely no sense at all...
GG Mode = GG rules. We're making a comparison of GG Baiken to GGX Baiken, not GG Baiken to GG Mode Baiken. And there are no GG Mode competitions. Get it?
quote:
It's subpar? I think not! She can poke, cancel
Cancel, but not combo......
quote:
juggle, floor better than most.
......You are out of your mind. I DEMAND that you post REAL explanations rather than making these sorts of outrageous claims.
quote:
She doesn't lack any speed...she's faster than Ky, Axl, Potemkin and Johnny
So she's the 5th slowest in the game. Hooray. That means she's SLOWER than Sol, Chipp, Millia, Venom, Zato, May, Dizzy, and Jam. And she sure as hell is NOT faster than Ky.
quote:
...she's no Chipp or Milla...but then again...who is?
Being slower than the two fastest characters in the game is one thing......being slower than the majority of the better characters in the game is another.
quote:
She has good combo starters in the air and on the ground and they cover a large disance and come out fast.
Her links are not reliable for combos, however. Her most comboable move from her normals is Tatami Gaeshi, and that will only work from certain distances, and can't be followed up reliably.
quote:
She ALMOST lacks an "all out" offensive it it wasn't for the fast that she has some air superiority with Yousansen and tatami(tatami rain anyone?)
Her Youzansen is PATHETIC in this game. It's weak and has crap range. And Tatami Rain? Have some Volcanic Viper. 12 frames of invincibility and a flaming sword shoved up your ass. Have a nice day.
quote:
and that's just for starters. The only real con with Baiken is her stamina...she is not as bad a Chipp but then again...who is?
That is a lame excuse. Her stamina is third worst in the game. She takes damage so poorly; a standard Sol combo does about 50% damage to her. Johnny rapes her. Even Chipp, with his lousy stamina, is better off because of his higher damage-dealing capabilities.
quote:
But let me remind you that she can increase the damage onto the opponent or lower their strength with her Baku overrides...and they ARE in high priority you just need to know how to use them at the right time
Ugh, they're SO easy to counteract. Damnit, quit repeating yourself and post some actual rebuttals.
quote:
not whenever which is what you are implying.
Don't put words in my mouth. This is your only warning. Don't do that.
quote:
Her air and ground defense is very solid and proof of that is Baiken is one of the few characters that can get out of a corner or most traps they easiest and it's because of her offensive and defensive moves.
Again...no. You're wrong. Her air defense isn't solid at all, it's very shakeable. And the correct offense will keep her pinned flat into the corner, no problem. FDC owns her.
quote:
You are implying that a Baiken player will turtle...why would one do that? Anyone knows that with Baiken you should only guard against your opponent only when it is necessary.
You totally misunderstand. What can Baiken do to stop a good offensive? Almost nothing. And don't start again with her counters, I wanna hear some real explanations rather than your repeat crap.
quote:
You can't turtle with her because sooner or later your guard meter will be filled and you will eat high damage from a special or combo and risk getting a negative penalty which will screw with your strat.
And yet you keep assuming that I said she can turtle......I NEVER, EVER said that.
quote:
Also if you are beubg pressured counter! Sure your counters can have a drawback for they can have window of vulnerability...but any good Baiken player knows that you can't counter everything that comes out from your opponent.
FDC makes those counters suck, period. You'll never touch a good Chipp or Sol with your counters because they will NEVER be open for them. Now stop it.
quote:
An effective tatami rain will give the oppoent very few options to counter.
Invincible rising moves. What rain?
quote:
Let's also realize that Baiken do crossups before the tatami lands. If the opponent tries to prevent you from doing a tatami rain...do a Yousansen...lol..."forgot" about that huh?
Youzansen SUCKS in GGX. It gets countered easily. It's not a viable option. You don't know what you're talking about.
quote:
That's not even counting her abilities on the ground with the tatami or how you can ALMOST do a Yousansen as if it was OTG.
Tatamis are overrated, and they don't work as a panacea, pal. Ground Tatamis are easy to counter because of lag.
quote:
Says you? LOL not good enough reason if you ask me...her Baku override are invaluable. She can and will have a VERY good chance to dominate the match regardless of skill level in the hands of a good player.
*sigh* Not happening. Read above.
quote:
I agree with her low stamina but her override can change that [snaps fingers] just like that.
May change her damage, but sure as hell won't keep me from pressuring you.
Also GG Baiken was fully offensive and could handle characters like that back then...but now? She needed a bit more and ASW adjusted her just for that
That doesn't mean that GGX Baiken is better than GG Baiken simply because of the environment change. Assuming GG environment, GG Baiken is a lot better. You can't just take everything into the GGX environment for this comparison, as that's highly unfair; the two games are completely different. You have to make the comparison according to each version's placement in their OWN environment. In GG environment, GG Baiken is an utter powerhouse. In GGX environment, GGX Baiken is low on the hierarchy because of her weak offense and defense.
quote:
if they made her totally offensive like in GG AND have her defense in GGX she would be WAY WAY overbalanced.
No. You keep assuming that her defense is that good. It's not. And I've already stated why.
quote:
As for "killing the opponent without any effort" taking out anyone with at least decent without effort is nothing short of amazing lol.
That's cuz you play with Baiken. Other characters can kill so much easier.
quote:
The only reall difference between GG Baiken and GGX Baiken is the speed if the Yousansen.
That is SO wrong. Youzansen in GG was not only faster, but had a much larger range and could link into itself. It was easier to combo as well because you could do it from the ground.
quote:
But I agree GG Baiken is faster but only slightly and Baiken moves MUCH faster than Faust of Potemkin
And MUCH slower than most anyone else. It doesn't matter how fast she moves in comparison to Potemkin if she can't keep up with Sol, who has only above average speed anyway.
quote:
what GGX are you playing?
I was about to ask you the exact same question.
quote:
Also we have been through the damage argument before...by you logic everyone in GG is better than their GGX version...
No, that's YOUR logic, twisting my words around and assuming things about the way I think.
quote:
but I do argue about the superior combo ability and I already went over some of the reasons why...your only argument is "well the ones she had in GG did a lot of damage" and you never explain why that is so and by your faulty logic that means one version is better than the other and you barely state a reason to back up why you think so other than your personal opinion on the matter.
I rebutted all of your reasons and all you did was restate them, with perhaps a slight modification (rebutted those too). My argument is that her combos in GG did comparably MORE damage, not just "a lot" (you keep assuming shit). It is the simple truth that Baiken in GG could kill you faster than Baiken in GGX; her damage potential was higher back then, as she could kill you in ONE COMBO with ease. Doing the same with GGX Baiken isn't possible, and you haven't rebutted THAT yet. You have yet to state any of these supposedly superior GGX combos, so don't tell me that I have faulty logic and that all I'm stating is opinion, cuz you're doing the damn same thing.
quote:
If me being a "hardhead that won't change his mind" because from what I have seen the only reason or evidence as to why I should think otherwise is by someones personal opinion of the character and moves rather than the proof of the priority of the moves the character has and other gameplay factors then yes...I'm hardheaded.
What "proof" are you speaking of? You have yet to present any sort of "proof" either, you nincompoop. You're stating YOUR personal opinion against MY personal opinion. That's called an argument.
quote:
But what you have stated thus far is your own personal logic/opinion which is not a good enough reason to convince anyone.
Ditto to YOU, pal. All you've done is state YOUR personal opinion, with no real backup at all. Hypocrite.
quote:
That's your opinion...not a fact...care to actually back up that statement about the counters?
I've DONE it before. I've mentioned exactly why they suck in previous paragraphs, yet you're choosing to ignore those now and take that statement as a lone argument with no backup. Things previously stated do not need to be repeated. Now let's see you actually rebut something rather than just restating the same crap over.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
[this message was edited by Beast of Fire on Tue 28 May 08:57] |
| Beast of Fire
23th Post
New Customer
| "Re(7):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Tue 28 May 07:11:
quote:
Here's an easy one:
s.S -> Tatamigaeshix2 ->TsuraneSanzuWatashix2->Tatamigaeshi->s.F+HS
Turn on blocking. Standing Slash does not link to Tatami Gaeshi unless Guard Meter is flashing. And turn on Ukemi as well, cuz you CANNOT link two Tatamis in a row unless Guard Meter is flashing (again). It simply does not work.
quote:
May it be easy to combo or not was not the issue there...it was simply stating to make it usefull you would have to combo it
Which was easy. Infinite ahoy!
quote:
however in GGX you got to combo it as well to make it effective...ASW balanced the game more so infinites are not so easy but who needs an infinite when you can do a 100% combo?
Again, where is the 100% combo? Hmph. And you say that all I do is post personal opinions...you pluck information magically out of the air and don't back it up at all.
quote:
You can juggle multiple times regardless of a filled guard meter or not.
No you CAN'T. It does not work, period. If that shit works for you, then your opponents don't Ukemi well at ALL.
quote:
And given that at tatami will cancel attacks it becomes a good offensive tactic that can be applied into a combo. You imply that someone just blindly use tatami's...who would do that other than a novice?
Nobody, of course; and I WARNED YOU ABOUT PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I didn't imply ANYTHING about "blindly" using Tatamis, you're simply making assumptions based on your own twisted logic so you can say that you're right.
quote:
Since the ability to ukemi comes LONG after the move connects it becomes a great combo starter and ender(for flooring heh grassmat...flooring...heheheh)
Uh, no. I can ukemi away from that move easily.
quote:
also a tatami rain is what pressures an opponent...it gives the opponent little time to counter and really only try to evade
It can be blown through by other moves, giving you no chance to even start a Tatami rain.
quote:
Tatami will do more damage...and may I ask how do you throw a floored opponent?
Your opponent won't BE floored. Tatami does NOT floor, it can be Ukemi'ed easily. If you want to FLOOR your opponent, then a SWEEP or THROW is a better option. And if you use Tatamis for OTG, I'd like to inform you that one-hit OTGs can be ukemi'ed easily. Apparently your competition doesn't know that.
quote:
Try it...you can't ukemi until right after Baiken is able to jump at you for an attack...it takes practice but see for yourself sometime
Tried it. The jump is possible, but there is no guarantee of what you'll get out of it, and you most definitely will not floor your opponent.
quote:
also when I play training mode I set stuff like Ukemi and Guardmeter to max...it let's me know how much time I have to attack with a dizzied opponent or what moves or combos can be ukemied out of.
*sigh* You're NOT going to have your opponent's guard meter at max all the time. And if you've forgotten, a max guard meter means that the first four moves you hit your opponent with are counterhit. That means that if your opponent gets knocked down, then they can't ukemi like they usually could. Any combos that you mention probably will NOT work against someone who has normal, non-flashing guard meter.
quote:
I just listed what you can do...several times [sigh]
*sigh* And most of it is WRONG.
quote:
There is nothing magical about them...and I don't pull them out of my ass...I pull them out on a joystick or gamepad...with skill...and most are inescapable because you can't ukemi...remember no Ukemi=no escape you're just in for the ride till I am done with you(I'm gonna take you for a ride doodoodoodododo).
LIST ONE!! DAMNIT, QUIT TRYING TO BE FUNNY AND PUT SOMETHING DOWN, YOU BSING HYPOCRITE!
quote:
I AM a good Chipp and Sol player for Baiken, Sol, Chipp and Potemkin are my best characters. Chipps FDCs...BFD most of his attacks can be stopped by Baiken's offensive specials and he DOES have large recovery time in most of his normals and quite a few of his specials.
Why would you rush your opponent with anything but a c.K, F+P, B+HS, or c.HS (FDCed of course)? You rush with single moves and if they hit, THEN you go for a combo. Any good Chipp player knows this, you don't just blindly rush and chain. This gives Baiken no opportunity to use any of her defensive measures that you keep yowling about. And c.HS has MAD priority, it'll blow through most any counterattack that Baiken has.
quote:
Sol has more recovery time in the same way...hell...he's worse than Chipp in this field...however his overhead specials are his real ticket to pressuring Baiken...but even then...
What are you talking about? If Sol uses chains that are no longer than 2 moves and does FDC, he'll be able to defend himself easily from any counter that Baiken might try. His moves also have higher priority than hers and snuff most of her stuff. And his overhead specials? Doesn't need them.
quote:
Question...a couple.
1)Where did I say play a keep away game?
A mistake on your part in reading my statements. I said that your OPPONENT will RUN AWAY, not YOU. That's what I've been saying, fool.
quote:
2)Why in god's name would you WANT to play a keep away game with Baiken? You don't even want to turtle!
And I NEVER SAID THAT!!!! God, you are so confused.
quote:
You know why I asked those questions? BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED TO!
Big fucking DUH. You're assuming things AGAIN.
quote:
Are you ACTUALLY suggesting one depend and turn to teleporting as an effective form of evasion!? [cracks a smile and bites his tongue] I know Chipp like the back of my freak'n hand and without his jumping Chipp is like a fish out of water.
Jump at my Chipp. I dare you. You'll be real surprised when I'm behind you instead of in front. You obviously don't know Chipp as well as you think you do, because even with his jumps gone, he can easily smother Baiken. No contest. And I've played jumping Chipps like you before. They're easy prey. They get pretty angry after being hit by the same combo over and over every time they have the foolish idea to jump at my Sol.
Bottom line: don't jump a lot in GGX unless you're ready to use Faultless Defense a LOT.
quote:
Ever tried to play Johnny without his specials!? Without his specials for about 9 seconds he becomes Baiken's personal manbitch. No keep away, no zoning and best of all NO MIST TRAPS!
You don't know shit. Johnny doesn't need specials to keep away or zone; he's got his ultra-high priority normal moves. Whenever Johnny pokes, he owns the space in front of him, and you can't violate it. Jumping? F+P has upper body invincibility, wiseass. Not today.
quote:
With a Dizzy dealing low damage you can ALMOST blindly rush whail on Dizzy LOL...Baiken becomes like Potemkin...she can actually take the damage and deliver more with much gain and little risk.
Not if she gets knocked down at every turn. Dizzy has easy combos that ensure you won't be going anywhere. After nine seconds is up and you're missing even more life than you were before, you'll be crying. Your only solace will be that Dizzy didn't get to kill you for those nine seconds, but then you'll realize how you wasted your Tension and got nothing out of it. Then you'll be crying again.
quote:
Name ONE character that doesn't have ANY attacks with some lag!...YOU CAN'T!
With FDC and rushing, Sol and Chipp don't need to worry. All their lag is canceled, and you can't touch them, period.
quote:
No character has that kind of advantage.
FDC gives almost every character that advantage. Think of Baiken with a lagless F+HS. Nice, eh? And Johnny doesn't even need FDC; his Mist Cancel works even better, and it's legal.
quote:
No character can come in like you suggest and not expect to be hit with a counter or at the very least nullify the attempt to hit.
Read above.
quote:
If GGX played like GG then you would be right and GGX Baiken would be inferior but given that GGX Baiken REGARDLESS of gameplay now has a solid offense AND defense and the latter is so useful that it can be considered an offensive tactic for you can followup with a large variety of attack patterns. Versatility is what GGX Baiken has...and I say that is why she is a better version.
In this game. In GG, she would die. I've already gone over this. You can't use GGX as the only reference point.
quote:
Um you can safely rush the opponent...just not blindly like you can with say...Chipp or Jam.
No you can't. You have yet to back this claim up.
quote:
And you use her rush move to counter attacks...that's it's point...it allows you to get in close with very minimal risk and with that there is very little chance the opponent will have time to counter and then combo you...because you are nullifying/countering the attack for a rush in attack.
You're not nullifying their attack, you're simply blocking while advancing; they can still attack, and if they quickly link to a low move, you will suck on it. Let's say I throw a Slash with Sol and you Suzuran through it. I cancel to a Grand Viper and I get to blast you for free, and if I have 50% Tension on hand, I get a Roman Cancel combo. All because you left yourself open for a second. Almost anyone can do this to you by linking a simple sweep after whatever move you blocked with Suzuran. Still think it's a safe move?
quote:
Says you...also I would be inclined to change my mind if you actually had something viable to share with this "debate" which it really isn't...it's you ranting about your opinion while insulting me for not agreeing with you.
Please. You simply choose to ignore whatever info that I might present and continue on with your OWN bias, while saying that all I'm doing is ranting. Your arrogance is astounding in that you always promote your OWN opinions to fact and claim that everyone else is presenting no argument. Quit being an ass and come back down to Earth.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
[this message was edited by Beast of Fire on Tue 28 May 09:07] |
| Shin ATproof 531th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(7):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Tue 28 May 09:45
quote:
WRONG. I have yet to see you even mention one of these combos. Stop BSing and gimme proof, now.
[sigh] yare yare...
quote:
Duh. They removed the majority of her offensive ability in GGX. Her offense SUCKS in GGX
Elaborate on that because I disagree. Really the only thing different is the Yousansen OTG and it's ubercheese with ASW fixed to balance out the game. However there is a trick to do a Yousansen OTG in GGX but it's a little difficult.
quote:
would say stronger, cuz her offense is horrible in GGX. Her defense ain't that good either, honestly. Versatility? Uh......no.
Once again I ask you to elaborate on that...simply because she no longer can be used by a scrub I don't think that makes her offense bad. Her offense is good if you know how to use it. Her ability to switch her offence to defense and back at the drop of a hat and either way she can still attack is what I call versatility.
quote:
Her defense isn't good enough to hold off a REAL offense. Period.
What is a "REAL" offense? Because I play "REAL" opponents in a "REAL" arcade who are "REALLY" good.
quote:
And I already rebutted. Give a more thorough explanation.
All I have been doing is explaining...how about you? Oh that's right...insulting...how silly of me to forget.
quote:
Keep dreaming in your own little fantasy world. There are tiers in EVERY fighting game, and there are most definitely tiers in GGX. You're telling me that Millia and Johnny are on the same level as Baiken, or Axl? Don't give me that crap. You need to play more, seriously.
Yup...do I contest the notion of tiers in GGX...I think it's preference based. Know one of the reasons? Because people STILL can't establish a concise tier list...and it appears the only "proof" people have is the Sammy tournament which is not proof to tiers.
quote:
Keep waiting.
GGX is ridden with laggy moves if you care to open your eyes and see for yourself...Baiken bait...which is part of the reason why Baiken has a good chance against anyone.
quote:
Again, no. Try it out a few more times. Doesn't always work. Especially against deep jump-ins.
If you do a deep jump-in you risk either getting hit or the combo timing to be screwed...it's a lose/lose situtaion...not a good idea.
quote:
I suspect that a good Baiken player probably doesn't use the counters very much at ALL.
Well given that when you defend you can use the counters. So yeah...you're sorta right on that because more often you will be on the offensive...but unlike other characters her defense is just as good if not better than her offense.
quote:
Uh......that IS the kick counter, genius.
Um...yeah glad you noticed.
quote:
1. Counters are unreliable (highly).
2. Suzuran is very counterable
3. Tatami Gaeshi gets predictable, and is better on offense anyway.
There. Now are you gonna explain YOUR ridiculous statements, or are you gonna continue with the BS?
1)Counters are reliable you just need to know how to use them, when to use them and know what to use and I explained that before.
2)Suzuran is not counterable if you are the one countering
3)Tatamigaeshi is not predictable unless you make it so by constantly using the move like an idiot by blindly trying to rush with it and such.
The irony in that statement is that I'm not the one BSing here.
quote:
Not turtle; run away. Easy. And in some cases, it isn't even necessary to run; if you remove specials or jumping, I can ground pressure with FDC and normals just fine. You accomplish nothing.
Well that's very nice for you but once again if you run away/play keep away with Baiken you risk getting a negative penalty she is not good for turtling either...well nobody is for that matter...
quote:
Comparably weaker, damnit. Stop trying to use some backwards logic. Even with the damage differences, the move is still COMPARABLY WEAKER.
Backwards logic? Nice copout.
quote:
NO. Quit pulling this out of your ass and EXPLAIN something. Baiken has NO good juggling abilities, none
Elaborate on that because I already did. All you have done is go "oh you are BSing" and then state your opinion and nothing more.
quote:
That still REQUIRES A DIZZY!!! What is your point!? And I NEVER SAID TURTLE!!! "Clamming up" is the equivalent of stopping offensive measures and resorting to passive methods. This does NOT mean turtling, necessarily.
It requires a dizzy and being able to dizzy with Baiken can be somewhat easy with the way she can juggle and floor. Also what you were mentioning was turtling...regardless if you meant to say a different thing.
quote:
GG Mode = GG rules. We're making a comparison of GG Baiken to GGX Baiken, not GG Baiken to GG Mode Baiken. And there are no GG Mode competitions. Get it?
No no no no...my question was the "GGmode is for lamerz blah blah blah" crap...I'm still trying to figure out why you would say that.
quote:
Cancel, but not combo......
Cancel AND combo
quote:
......You are out of your mind. I DEMAND that you post REAL explanations rather than making these sorts of outrageous claims.
the funny things is that I did explain.
quote:
So she's the 5th slowest in the game. Hooray. That means she's SLOWER than Sol, Chipp, Millia, Venom, Zato, May, Dizzy, and Jam.
She's slower than those characters(I think Venom and Zato is arguable though heheh) but Baiken is not a snail...so you got a moot point on your hands...know a reason why? Because Potemkin can catch up to Dizzy easy.
quote:
Being slower than the two fastest characters in the game is one thing......being slower than the majority of the better characters in the game is another.
I don't agree...you're implying Baiken is too slow to actually put up a fight. Well if that were the case Chipp should be the dominant character in the game since everyone else is slower than him.
quote:
Her links are not reliable for combos, however. Her most comboable move from her normals is Tatami Gaeshi, and that will only work from certain distances, and can't be followed up reliably.
Says you. Her links are reliable for combos because her specials normally juggle and some you can't ukemi out of if timed well.
quote:
Her Youzansen is PATHETIC in this game. It's weak and has crap range. And Tatami Rain? Have some Volcanic Viper. 12 frames of invincibility and a flaming sword shoved up your ass. Have a nice day.
First of all you will be eating tatami if you try a volcanic viper in a tatami rain trick. Second Yousansen is not "pathetic" in this game just not as good as it was in GG...but then again EVERYONE had something "weakened" from the last game...like Sol's DI Volcanic Viper.
quote:
That is a lame excuse. Her stamina is third worst in the game. She takes damage so poorly; a standard Sol combo does about 50% damage to her. Johnny rapes her. Even Chipp, with his lousy stamina, is better off because of his higher damage-dealing capabilities.
A standard Sol combo will do 50%...if your in Dragon Install. Yeah she does have some bad stamina but if Chipp the master pixy can get around your theory of an outclassed Baiken is debunked...especially when you mentioned Johnny when a Baiken vs Johnny match is pretty even. Most of Johnny's attacks hit once and have lag...counter time...then disable his specials and the match is Baiken's favor...however with Johnny you want to play a poking and keep away game and try to lure your opponent isn't a mist finer and such.
quote:
Ugh, they're SO easy to counteract. Damnit, quit repeating yourself and post some actual rebuttals.
1)I have already explained enough
2)Practice what you preach
quote:
Don't put words in my mouth. This is your only warning. Don't do that.
WOOOOOOOOO I'm SOOOOOOOOO Scared...I'm shaking in my boots. I didn't put words in your mouth any way.
quote:
Again...no. You're wrong. Her air defense isn't solid at all, it's very shakeable. And the correct offense will keep her pinned flat into the corner, no problem. FDC owns her.
Unless the Baiken player is in a panic then Baiken can get out a corner and I'd like to see someone shake a Yousansen or a Tatamigaeshi in an air to air battle with any ease what so ever.
quote:
You totally misunderstand. What can Baiken do to stop a good offensive? Almost nothing. And don't start again with her counters, I wanna hear some real explanations rather than your repeat crap.
Once again I ask you to explain that because what I have mention shows the exact opposite of what you just said oh and if I am "repeating" it's because we are going in circles because you keep avoiding what I explain and I think part of the reason is that your are so busy trying to insult and state your opinion.
quote:
And yet you keep assuming that I said she can turtle......I NEVER, EVER said that.
No you never said the word "turtle" but that is what you are talking about.
quote:
FDC makes those counters suck, period. You'll never touch a good Chipp or Sol with your counters because they will NEVER be open for them. Now stop it.
Says you. Unless the Baiken user is not good at counters then yes I would probably agree with you but I don't want to play "theory fighter" I'd rather talk about what Baiken is capable of and she is capable of countering any move with lag...and you can tell which ones because they are visible from afar.
quote:
Invincible rising moves. What rain?
Ever seen a perfectly executed Tatami rain tactic? From the sound of it I don't think you have.
quote:
Youzansen SUCKS in GGX. It gets countered easily. It's not a viable option. You don't know what you're talking about.
It get's countered easy? By whom and by what may I ask? It is a viable option because it covers Baiken in nearly a 180 degree and it comes out fast and you can cancel it into another.
quote:
Tatamis are overrated, and they don't work as a panacea, pal. Ground Tatamis are easy to counter because of lag.
Tatami's may be overrated but the fact remains that they are good for trapping, starting combos and canceling as I mentioned before...especially ground tatami's that stop characters from rushing you by canceling some attacks forcing the opponent to jump in which then becomes your que to counter.
quote:
*sigh* Not happening. Read above.
Nice copout.
quote:
May change her damage, but sure as hell won't keep me from pressuring you.
It's HARD to pressure Baiken because of her counters and cancels. Like I said...unless the player is in a panic trying to pressure and corner a Baiken is a bad idea especially since every character in the game has laggy moves...so more than others. Also if you change the damage you negate part of the reason to pressure since Baiken can eat the attack and dish out more like Potemkin.
quote:
That doesn't mean that GGX Baiken is better than GG Baiken simply because of the environment change. Assuming GG environment, GG Baiken is a lot better. You can't just take everything into the GGX environment for this comparison, as that's highly unfair; the two games are completely different. You have to make the comparison according to each version's placement in their OWN environment.
I argue on the grounds of versatility is why I say GGX Baiken is better than GG Baiken. You ignored it and then began to flame and here we are with nothing resolved.
quote:
No. You keep assuming that her defense is that good. It's not.
When I explain why it is good you go "no it isn't" and then flame. That's not an argument that's a contradiction with petty insults.
quote:
That's cuz you play with Baiken. Other characters can kill so much easier.
Opinion...nothing more.
quote:
That is SO wrong. Youzansen in GG was not only faster, but had a much larger range and could link into itself. It was easier to combo as well because you could do it from the ground.
To pull off a Yousansen effectively in GG you had to combo it so the argument about range is a moot point and it was easy to combo because it was easy to do it OTG. In GGX it's different in that yes the range of the move is shorter but then again to actually pull it off effectively you have to combo it first and the trick to do an OTG Yousansen is harder to do so the factor of reliability of the move is up in the air for I think it's a matter of preference.
quote:
And MUCH slower than most anyone else. It doesn't matter how fast she moves in comparison to Potemkin if she can't keep up with Sol, who has only above average speed anyway
She is slower than Sol but Sol is not fast enough to evade Baiken...neither is Chipp...the fastest character in the game they can play some game of keep away but you can't do that forever.
quote:
I was about to ask you the exact same question.
HA HA
quote:
No, that's YOUR logic, twisting my words around and assuming things about the way I think.
I'm not making assumptions I am using your post/words against your argument.
quote:
I rebutted all of your reasons and all you did was restate them, with perhaps a slight modification (rebutted those too). My argument is that her combos in GG did comparably MORE damage, not just "a lot" (you keep assuming shit). It is the simple truth that Baiken in GG could kill you faster than Baiken in GGX; her damage potential was higher back then, as she could kill you in ONE COMBO with ease. Doing the same with GGX Baiken isn't possible, and you haven't rebutted THAT yet. You have yet to state any of these supposedly superior GGX combos, so don't tell me that I have faulty logic and that all I'm stating is opinion, cuz you're doing the damn same thing.
I restate them and elaborate more and all you do is "no it isn't" then go on about your opinion of the matter than the cold hard facts. Yes the damage Baiken did in GG was high but then again EVERYONE did high damage in that game so by your logic everyone in GGX is weaker than their GG version and to you that would mean everyone in GG was better. However I argue about versatility in offense and defense of the character in question and when I explain that you go "no it isn't (insert insult and opinion)"
quote:
Ditto to YOU, pal. All you've done is state YOUR personal opinion, with no real backup at all. Hypocrite
A lie and a copout.
quote:
I've DONE it before. I've mentioned exactly why they suck in previous paragraphs, yet you're choosing to ignore those now and take that statement as a lone argument with no backup. Things previously stated do not need to be repeated. Now let's see you actually rebut something rather than just restating the same crap over.
Wow that's EXACTLY what I was thinking now strange and ironic...or is it?
|
| Shin ATproof 532th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(8):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Tue 28 May 09:46
quote:
Turn on blocking. Standing Slash does not link to Tatami Gaeshi. Ever. And turn on Ukemi as well, cuz you CANNOT link two Tatamis in a row. It simply does not work.
I think that combo works best in a corner but I believe you can do it outside of one...it works alright...I use it a lot when I have a full tension meter.
quote:
Which was easy. Infinite ahoy!
But actually getting it to work was a different story...nobody is just going to run into your move and go "HIT ME PLEASE" it ain't happening but IMO I'd rather be able to do a 100% combo. So in my eyes I don't see much of a difference.
quote:
Again, where is the 100% combo? And you say that all I do is post personal opinions...you pluck information magically out of the air and don't back it up at all.
Look for yourself...hell I mention a standard override combo and immediately you try to debunk it...what's the point?
quote:
No you CAN'T. It does not work, period. Your opponents don't Ukemi at ALL if you get them with that.
Sometimes a demonstration is better than an explanation...look at it for yourself and see why you can't ukemi it.
quote:
Nobody, of course; and I WARNED YOU ABOUT PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I didn't imply ANYTHING about "blindly" using Tatami's, you're simply making assumptions based on your own twisted logic so you can say that you're right.
I am not assuming anything and I am not putting words in your mouth...in the scenario you suggest is one who is blindly using the move but a good Baiken player would know not to do that...lol then you take it personall...geez lighten up.
quote:
Uh, no. I can ukemi away from that move easily.
Yes you will be able to ukemi...when I am done with the combo...so you're right..sort of.
quote:
Your opponent won't BE floored. Tatami does NOT floor, it can be Ukemi'ed easily. If you want to FLOOR your opponent, then a SWEEP or THROW is a better option. And if you use Tatami's for OTG, I'd like to inform you that one-hit OTGs can be ukemi'ed easily. Apparently your competition doesn't know that.
see for yourself sometime...Tatami floors the opponent and does more damage than a sweep and you can't throw a floored opponent...you can't grab them if they are on the freak'n floor and you can't ukemi if you are floored. Also yes you can ukemi 1 hit OTGs but after a certain time and it depends on the attack...in this case if done correctly you can't ukemi out of the combo because you will hit by a combo before you can recover.
quote:
Tried it. The jump is possible, but there is no guarantee of what you'll get out of it, and you most definitely will not floor your opponent.
So if the jump is possible then you realize you can't ukemi if done correctly and you will be pretty low to the ground at the end of the combo that the opponent can be hit when they are on the floor.
quote:
*sigh* You're NOT going to have your opponent's guard meter at max all the time. And if you've forgotten, a max guard meter means that the first four moves you hit your opponent with are counterhit. That means that if your opponent gets knocked down, then they can't ukemi like they usually could. Any combos that you mention probably will NOT work against someone who has normal, non-flashing guard meter
Nonononononononoononononononono NO! You're not understanding. If you set the computer like that you will realize what can be Ukemi and at what time or how much time you have to combo someone dizzy if they know how to recover quickly...stuff like that...it's like playing the best tech user possible...it's where you can figure out things like your combo timing.
quote:
LIST ONE!! DAMNIT, QUIT TRYING TO BE FUNNY AND PUT SOMETHING DOWN, YOU BSING HYPOCRITE!
quote:
Why would you rush your opponent with anything but a c.K, F+P, B+HS, or c.HS (FDCed of course)? You rush with single moves and if they hit, THEN you go for a combo. Any good Chipp player knows this, you don't just blindly rush and chain. This gives Baiken no opportunity to use any of her defensive measures that you keep yowling about. And c.HS has MAD priority, it'll blow through most any counterattack that Baiken has.
Half of those I know have lag long enough to counter with. Also you mention Chipp and given that Baiken can just cancel most of his attacks with a tatami alone. Also if you FDC something like a c.HS 1 of three things will happen:
1)If timed well Counter will hit the opponent
2)If timed well Counter disrupts the followp
3)If timed poor Counter will leave Baiken open
quote:
What are you talking about? If Sol uses chains that are no shorter than 2 moves and then does FDC, he'll be able to defend himself easily from any counter that Baiken might try. His moves also have higher priority than hers and snuff most of her stuff. And his overhead specials? Doesn't need them.
You just mentioned a risk on Sol behalf that could very well play into Baiken's favor given that Sol is ridden with laggy moves...that's counter bait. And he hardly has any attacks that Baiken's specials or counters can't stop or get around...I explained why earlier and Sol does need his overhead specials to take on Baiken. Sol has a very good air game...that's why.
quote:
A mistake on your part in reading my statements. I said that your OPPONENT will RUN AWAY. That's what I've been saying, fool.
I don't see how it's my mistake but whatever...have it your way...not going to hold it against you.
quote:
And I NEVER SAID THAT!!!! God, you are so confused.
You did.
quote:
Big fucking DUH. You're assuming things AGAIN.
May I ask how in god's green earth you would think that was assuming?
quote:
Jump at my Chipp. I dare you. You'll be real surprised when I'm behind you instead of in front. You obviously don't know Chipp as well as you think you do, because even with his jumps gone, he can easily smother Baiken. No contest. And I've played jumping Chipps like you before. They're easy prey. They get pretty angry after being hit by the same combo over and over every time they have the foolish idea to jump at my Sol.
More lame theory fighter arugment...okay whatever...any way if you try to teleport away from my attack you risk getting hit...why? Because there is a high recovery time with the move. Also with the ability to jump Chipp cannot do half as well given that his limited option to attack makes most of his specials useless to use since they pose a great risk because Chipp cannot recover and get out of the way of an on coming assault...seriously...try to play Chipp without jumping once...try it for 8 or 9 seconds against someone really good you'll understand better. Also don't try to assume how I play Chipp...yes he is a scrub main choice but that doesn't mean I play like a scrub.
quote:
You don't know shit. Johnny doesn't need specials to keep away or zone; he's got his ultra-high priority normal moves. Whenever Johnny pokes, he owns the space in front of him, and you can't violate it. Jumping? F+P has upper body invincibility, wiseass. Not today.
His "ultra high priority normals" are not good without his specials to give him distance, combos or start is traps. Also since most of Johnny's attacks hit once suzuran is perfect for getting in close...Try to play Johnny without using a special once...try it for 8 or 9 seconds against someone really good you'll understand better.
quote:
Not if she gets knocked down at every turn. Dizzy has easy combos that ensure you won't be going anywhere. After nine seconds is up and you're missing even more life than you were before, you'll be crying. Your only solace will be that Dizzy didn't get to kill you for those nine seconds, but then you'll realize how you wasted your Tension and got nothing out of it. Then you'll be crying again.
OMG! Stop playing theory fighter it proves nothing! Also your argument is bunk if Dizzy's strength is weakened.
quote:
With FDC and rushing, Sol and Chipp don't need to worry. All their lag is canceled, and you can't touch them, period.
We went through this and you are only at best 1/3 right.
quote:
FDC gives almost every character that advantage. Think of Baiken with a lagless F+HS. Nice, eh? And Johnny doesn't even need FDC; his Mist Cancel works even better, and it's legal.
FDC's shave off some of the lag is most moves but not all of them...as long as there is some lag if timed well a counter will work or stop the attack
quote:
Read above.
Read above.
quote:
In this game. In GG, she would die. I've already gone over this. You can't use GGX as the only reference point.
In GG she would die? I think not given that in GG a GGX Baiken would take out most of the attacks opponents threw at her...and I don't recall there being any FDCs and you still didn't cover the versatility issue.
quote:
No you can't. You have yet to back this claim up.
Another copout...or is that a contradiction? Or is that both?
quote:
You're not nullifying their attack, you're simply blocking while advancing; they can still attack, and if they quickly link to a low move, you will suck on it. Let's say I throw a Slash with Sol and you Suzuran through it. I cancel to a Grand Viper and I get to blast you for free, and if I have 50% Tension on hand, I get a Roman Cancel combo. All because you left yourself open for a second. Almost anyone can do this to you by linking a simple sweep after whatever move you blocked with Suzuran. Still think it's a safe move?
If Suzuran connects with an attack most of the time it gives Baiken time to counter with her own attack...it basically does nullify the attack since you plow right through it. If you hit a Baiken using a Suzuran with a slash you won't have time to safely do a grand viper. Yeah...I do think it's a relatively safe move.
quote:
Please. You simply choose to ignore whatever info that I might present and continue on with your OWN bias, while saying that all I'm doing is ranting. Your arrogance is astounding in that you always promote your OWN opinions to fact and claim that everyone else is presenting no argument.
Let's get the record straight...you ignore what I say and what you do in return is go "no it isn't" then insult then state your opinion on if something "sucks" or "not effective" then insult some more and say I haven't provided any information to back up my claims...then have the nerve to call me a hypocrite...and you say that I am biased. I think this is pot calling the kettle black.
|
| ONSLAUGHT 2019th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
   
| "Mmmhh..." , posted Tue 28 May 10:00:
quote:
I am not calling you childish...I am calling your insults childish...there is a difference. See unlike you I attack your posts not you personally.
Come on Shin my friend, let's stop this, make love, not war.
Just don't reply anymore, no one is gonna say "Oh yes, I'm wrong, sorry about everything"...
You know why? because there's a small thing called pride, and even if someone is wrong he will not admitt it...
Anyway, let's return to the point, let's end this fight, it's not doing any good, and I'm pretty sure you don't like to go into flame wars, so let's talk about something positive.
Peace
[this message was edited by ONSLAUGHT on Tue 28 May 10:05] |
| Beast of Fire
23th Post
New Customer
| "Re(8):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Tue 28 May 11:43
quote:
Elaborate on that because I disagree. Really the only thing different is the Yousansen OTG and it's ubercheese with ASW fixed to balance out the game. However there is a trick to do a Yousansen OTG in GGX but it's a little difficult.
*sigh* Why do I bother? Man, it's frustrating when someone doesn't even read my posts......
Look, Baiken simply lacks pressuring ability. She's not as fast as the rest of the cast, and her attacks don't come out very quickly all the time. She also doesn't have a lot of priority; her only high-priority moves are c.Slash, j.Slash, and j.HSlash. Tatami Gaeshi gets beaten out by a GOOD number of moves on the ground, and in the air, it's not much better. Her Youzansen isn't any good either, and her super is only good in combos or as a trickshot counterattack. Compare this to the pressuring ability of some other characters, and you have a weak offensive.
quote:
Once again I ask you to elaborate on that...simply because she no longer can be used by a scrub I don't think that makes her offense bad.
But compared to the rest of the cast, her offense IS bad, scrub or no. She simply cannot pressure the way the other characters can.
quote:
Her offense is good if you know how to use it. Her ability to switch her offence to defense and back at the drop of a hat and either way she can still attack is what I call versatility.
It doesn't help if you don't actually have a good offense or defense (she has neither). See, this is what I'm saying; you say that her offense is good if you "know how to use it", then demand that I elaborate on my examples, when all you do is say something vague and claim it as fact.
quote:
What is a "REAL" offense? Because I play "REAL" opponents in a "REAL" arcade who are "REALLY" good.
A good offense with pressure characters like Sol and Chipp involves short bursts of aggression that don't leave time for retaliation. And as I've said BEFORE, with this kind of offense, if the player knows what he's doing, Baiken will pose no problem.
quote:
All I have been doing is explaining...how about you? Oh that's right...insulting...how silly of me to forget.
Fuck you. You're such an ass. You post half-assed explanations that have no backing and are almost totally opinionated, then you don't read what I post. Fuck you.
quote:
Yup...do I contest the notion of tiers in GGX...I think it's preference based. Know one of the reasons? Because people STILL can't establish a concise tier list...and it appears the only "proof" people have is the Sammy tournament which is not proof to tiers.
You're a moron. There have been TONS of Japanese tournaments since the game came out, and those tourneys more often than not have hundreds of players in them. The game has evolved, and you're still stuck in the Sammy Cup era. No tiers? Then can you explain why Millia is the most chosen character in most Japanese tourneys, and why Ky is the least?
quote:
GGX is ridden with laggy moves if you care to open your eyes and see for yourself...Baiken bait...which is part of the reason why Baiken has a good chance against anyone.
Do you even KNOW what FDC does, or are you just acting ignorant so you can continue to rant? FDC cancels the lag on ANY move that is sweep-cancellable. This includes most good pokes. So if you can apply FDC well, you'll never have to worry about Baiken's counters.
quote:
If you do a deep jump-in you risk either getting hit or the combo timing to be screwed...it's a lose/lose situtaion...not a good idea.
Or you could empty-jump, which is a win-win situation; either you block whatever move Baiken was doing and are safe, or land and toss her skinny ass to the ground.
quote:
Well given that when you defend you can use the counters. So yeah...you're sorta right on that because more often you will be on the offensive...but unlike other characters her defense is just as good if not better than her offense.
And yet, they both suck...too bad.
quote:
1)Counters are reliable you just need to know how to use them, when to use them and know what to use and I explained that before.
And I REBUTTED it, yet you ignored me and keep saying the same thing, OVER AND OVER. Idiot. You will NEVER get the opportunity to use them against a skilled player, period.
quote:
2)Suzuran is not counterable if you are the one countering
YES IT IS! Damnit, you're not even listening to my examples.
quote:
3)Tatamigaeshi is not predictable unless you make it so by constantly using the move like an idiot by blindly trying to rush with it and such.
The only other times you'll ever get to actually use the move are in combos, and those are limited.
quote:
The irony in that statement is that I'm not the one BSing here.
Good God. You ignore everything that I say and restate your arguments as if they're God-given fact. Pure and utter BS.
quote:
Well that's very nice for you but once again if you run away/play keep away with Baiken you risk getting a negative penalty she is not good for turtling either...well nobody is for that matter...
Damnit, BAIKEN IS NOT THE ONE RUNNING AWAY. NOT BAIKEN. YOUR OPPONENT.
I swear, you can't read.
quote:
Backwards logic? Nice copout.
Everything you SAY is a copout.
quote:
Elaborate on that because I already did. All you have done is go "oh you are BSing" and then state your opinion and nothing more.
Ugh. You have yet to list any good juggles or combos. You are BSing, period. If you stop making these roundabout arguments and actually post some info, I'll stop saying that you BS, but for now, you are BSing and that is it.
quote:
It requires a dizzy and being able to dizzy with Baiken can be somewhat easy with the way she can juggle and floor.
PROVE IT.
quote:
Also what you were mentioning was turtling...regardless if you meant to say a different thing.
GARBAGE. Quit twisting my words.
quote:
No no no no...my question was the "GGmode is for lamerz blah blah blah" crap...I'm still trying to figure out why you would say that.
When was the last time that you saw a GG Mode tournament? It's broken and stupid.
quote:
Cancel AND combo
Out of what!? Gimme examples.
quote:
the funny things is that I did explain.
In your own sort of twisted, half-ass way.
quote:
She's slower than those characters(I think Venom and Zato is arguable though heheh) but Baiken is not a snail...so you got a moot point on your hands...know a reason why? Because Potemkin can catch up to Dizzy easy.
Whatever. She's still slow.
quote:
I don't agree...you're implying Baiken is too slow to actually put up a fight. Well if that were the case Chipp should be the dominant character in the game since everyone else is slower than him.
Not true. I said "slower than most of the other good characters in the game". Meaning that she has a hard time catching up to them.
quote:
Says you. Her links are reliable for combos because her specials normally juggle and some you can't ukemi out of if timed well.
Wrong. Her Tatami Gaeshi is incredibly easy to recover from, and you don't even have a guaranteed air combo followup unless the opponent is cornered.
quote:
First of all you will be eating tatami if you try a volcanic viper in a tatami rain trick.
Don't think so. Like I said, 12 frames invincible. Blows right through it.
quote:
Second Yousansen is not "pathetic" in this game just not as good as it was in GG...but then again EVERYONE had something "weakened" from the last game...like Sol's DI Volcanic Viper.
Not an equal comparison, if you ask me. Sol's DI VV isn't as strong, but it wasn't neutered in the same manner as Youzansen. The move had more range, it was easier to combo into, it did better damage because of multiple hits, and it could LINK into itself. Now it's a shadow of it's former self.
quote:
A standard Sol combo will do 50%...if your in Dragon Install.
You're smoking crack. A DI'ed Sol can kill anyone with one combo. Don't believe me? Go to Gamecombos.com and look for Sol combos. They get nasty.
quote:
Yeah she does have some bad stamina but if Chipp the master pixy can get around your theory of an outclassed Baiken is debunked
How so? Explain, mister Master of Logic. [rolleyes]
quote:
especially when you mentioned Johnny when a Baiken vs Johnny match is pretty even. Most of Johnny's attacks hit once and have lag...counter time...then disable his specials and the match is Baiken's favor
Now I KNOW you're smoking crack, especially when you say that Johnny vs. Baiken is pretty even. Johnny has Mist Cancel, which removes lag from any of his pokes; you will never counter him. And the second that you even think of throwing any attacks, you'll probably eat a counter poke and get caught in a Mist Trap.
quote:
however with Johnny you want to play a poking and keep away game and try to lure your opponent isn't a mist finer and such.
That's old-as-fuck Johnny play. A good Johnny player can pressure like a madman with his coins, and he can start Mist Traps off of low kicks. His coin has higher priority than any other move in the game and will counter anything that you do. And once you're hit by a coin, the fun begins; you're only one knockdown away from a Mist Trap.
quote:
1)I have already explained enough
2)Practice what you preach
1) You haven't explained shit, and now you're getting on a highhorse about it.
2) I DO practice what I preach. You simply choose to ignore everything that I say.
quote:
WOOOOOOOOO I'm SOOOOOOOOO Scared...I'm shaking in my boots. I didn't put words in your mouth any way.
You are full of it.
quote:
Unless the Baiken player is in a panic then Baiken can get out a corner and I'd like to see someone shake a Yousansen or a Tatamigaeshi in an air to air battle with any ease what so ever.
If Baiken ever takes to the air, Sol can use his air Bandit Revolver on her before she does any move and she'll be forced to block, then be brought back down to Earth. And if she does anything else, he can Volcanic Viper to break through (invincibility frames).
quote:
Once again I ask you to explain that because what I have mention shows the exact opposite of what you just said oh and if I am "repeating" it's because we are going in circles because you keep avoiding what I explain and I think part of the reason is that your are so busy trying to insult and state your opinion.
I'm not going to bother responding to that. You have been ignoring any and all of the information that I post because you're convinced that you are right and everyone else is wrong, even though what you post is little more than your own opinion, not fact.
quote:
No you never said the word "turtle" but that is what you are talking about.
How on Earth did you derive that from what I said? Are you autistic or something?
quote:
Says you. Unless the Baiken user is not good at counters then yes I would probably agree with you but I don't want to play "theory fighter" I'd rather talk about what Baiken is capable of and she is capable of countering any move with lag...and you can tell which ones because they are visible from afar.
"Theory fighter"? I'm simply posting the truth: FDC cancels lag on almost any move, so there won't be any opportunites for you to use her counters.
quote:
Ever seen a perfectly executed Tatami rain tactic? From the sound of it I don't think you have.
Ever seen any actual tactics beyond Sammy Cup? From the sound of it, I don't think you have.
quote:
It get's countered easy? By whom and by what may I ask? It is a viable option because it covers Baiken in nearly a 180 degree and it comes out fast and you can cancel it into another.
*sigh* Go to Gamecombos. Look at details for special moves that have invincibility frames in the air. Guess what? Those moves beat Youzansen. Examples: Volcanic Viper, Vapor Thrust, Beta Blade, etc. There are more, but you might as well go look for yourself, seeing as you don't even read what I post.
quote:
Tatami's may be overrated but the fact remains that they are good for trapping, starting combos and canceling as I mentioned before...especially ground tatami's that stop characters from rushing you by canceling some attacks forcing the opponent to jump in which then becomes your que to counter.
Doesn't work if your opponent does empty jumps and rushes with FD. They'll block the Tatami and rush again while you're in recovery.
quote:
Nice copout.
Silence, King of Copouts.
quote:
It's HARD to pressure Baiken because of her counters and cancels. Like I said...unless the player is in a panic trying to pressure and corner a Baiken is a bad idea especially since every character in the game has laggy moves
Said it before and I will say it again: Faultless Defense Cancel. F-D-fucking-C.
quote:
so more than others. Also if you change the damage you negate part of the reason to pressure since Baiken can eat the attack and dish out more like Potemkin.
Not if she gets her ass knocked down by a combo.
quote:
I argue on the grounds of versatility is why I say GGX Baiken is better than GG Baiken. You ignored it and then began to flame and here we are with nothing resolved.
Wrong. You argued on the grounds of versatility, but you left out the fact that despite versatility, Baiken's actual abilities in offense are lower than her GG counterpart, and her defensive ability, while improved, cannot make up for this loss. I pointed this out to you several times (albeit harshly), and you completely ignored me and focused on the insults because you found no reason to rebut my arguments. So you, as you like to say, "copped out" by trying to use my harsh comments as scapegoats so that you wouldn't have to actually argue about your comments on Baiken's abilities. You twist my statements and call me childish. You claim that your personal opinions are viable facts, which is the pinnacle of arrogance. You're just as bad as you claim me to be.
quote:
When I explain why it is good you go "no it isn't" and then flame. That's not an argument that's a contradiction with petty insults.
You ignore my arguments and focus on the insults, then call me childish. You're evading me because you're afraid to actually argue, for some reason.
quote:
Opinion...nothing more.
FACT: Sol only needs 50% Tension to kill you.
FACT: Millia and Johnny need no Tension whatsoever to kill you.
FACT: Chipp only needs a c.HS or sweep and a full guard meter to kill you.
FACT: Zato only needs you cornered and 50% Tension, and he can kill you.
FACT: Baiken needs at least 50% Tension, full Guard Meter, and a corner to kill you.
ANALYSIS: These other characters are more efficient than Baiken.
OPINION: Baiken is "versatile", you only need to know how to use her.
You have yet to back this opinion up with any sort of fact, only your opinions and views.
quote:
To pull off a Yousansen effectively in GG you had to combo it so the argument about range is a moot point and it was easy to combo because it was easy to do it OTG. In GGX it's different in that yes the range of the move is shorter but then again to actually pull it off effectively you have to combo it first and the trick to do an OTG Yousansen is harder to do so the factor of reliability of the move is up in the air for I think it's a matter of preference.
Preference, my ass. The truth is right in front of your face. You have the info right there, but you refuse to look at it.
quote:
She is slower than Sol but Sol is not fast enough to evade Baiken...neither is Chipp...the fastest character in the game they can play some game of keep away but you can't do that forever.
Sol doesn't need to evade Baiken: His higher speed and priority allows him to be more offensive and not allow her to move. Ditto for Chipp, but even then, he can easily evade Baiken if necessary.
quote:
I'm not making assumptions I am using your post/words against your argument.
You're also twisting their meaning around to your benefit, rather than taking them as what they mean. Are you aspiring to be a lawyer, by any chance?
quote:
I restate them and elaborate more and all you do is "no it isn't" then go on about your opinion of the matter than the cold hard facts.
Your opinion is not equivalent to fact. You have yet to make it so, and you keep avoiding my arguments in favor of focusing on other things that are irrelevant.
quote:
Yes the damage Baiken did in GG was high but then again EVERYONE did high damage in that game so by your logic everyone in GGX is weaker than their GG version and to you that would mean everyone in GG was better.
BULLSHIT. You misread my statements completely. Are you serious? Even with his damage toned down, comparatively, Sol is only slightly weaker because he had less taken away from him and his total damage potential is about the same. On the other end of the spectrum, Ky is much weaker because his actual damage potential in GGX is much lower than it was in GG, and he had more taken. Ditto with Baiken. Even if GG was a HIGHER DAMAGE game, that isn't the point; the point is that Baiken's damage POTENTIAL is much lower in GGX than it was in GG, and this is NOT true with everyone else. Millia has the same damage potential, Potemkin has the same damage potential, Zato has BETTER damage potential; I could go on and on. You simply don't undestand.
quote:
However I argue about versatility in offense and defense of the character in question and when I explain that you go "no it isn't (insert insult and opinion)"
You IGNORE what I say. Period. I've already said WHY her offense and defense are not good, but you simply ignore what I say and go on as if you're the only one making any sense.
quote:
A lie and a copout.
You arrogant fuck.
quote:
Wow that's EXACTLY what I was thinking now strange and ironic...or is it?
No, you're just deluding yourself even further.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
|
| Shin ATproof 538th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(1):Mmmhh..." , posted Tue 28 May 12:11
quote:
I am not calling you childish...I am calling your insults childish...there is a difference. See unlike you I attack your posts not you personally.
Come on Shin my friend, let's stop this, make love, not war.
Just don't reply anymore, no one is gonna say "Oh yes, I'm wrong, sorry about everything"...
You know why? because there's a small thing called pride, and even if someone is wrong he will not admitt it...
Anyway, let's return to the point, let's end this fight, it's not doing any good, and I'm pretty sure you don't like to go into flame wars, so let's talk about something positive.
Peace
Hmmm yeah you're right Onslaught...it's not really worth it...there are better things I can do and focus my time and energy on.
Well on a positive note[trying to think positive]...I wonder if there will be Guilty Gear mode in GGXX. Maybe Dizzy will have an Instant Kill then hmmm?
Thinks of a GG mode GGXX Baiken....mmmmmmmmmmmm OMG that would be so good.
|
| Beast of Fire
24th Post
New Customer
| "Re(9):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Tue 28 May 12:33
quote:
I think that combo works best in a corner but I believe you can do it outside of one...it works alright...I use it a lot when I have a full tension meter.
No, it doesn't. It simply does not.
quote:
But actually getting it to work was a different story...nobody is just going to run into your move and go "HIT ME PLEASE" it ain't happening but IMO I'd rather be able to do a 100% combo. So in my eyes I don't see much of a difference.
They don't have to run into it, fool. And you don't see a difference? I'd say that the infinite would be much easier to do. Besides, you have yet to post any 100% combo, so I'm gonna go with a safe bet and say that you're lying like the manipulative little asshole that you are. Prove me wrong.
quote:
Look for yourself...hell I mention a standard override combo and immediately you try to debunk it...what's the point?
Simple......I tried out your "simple Overdrive combo" and it doesn't work unless your opponent has a FULL Guard Meter, which isn't something you can rely on. So until you actually prove that there is some magical 100% combo with Baiken, I'll say that you're lying. So post it. Unless you're afraid to. But why would you be? After all, you're OBVIOUSLY right. [rolleyes]
quote:
Sometimes a demonstration is better than an explanation...look at it for yourself and see why you can't ukemi it.
Baiken vs. Sol in Training Mode: I do a combo to Tatami Gaeshi, try for another Tatami Gaeshi, and it DOES NOT COMBO, because the opponent Ukemis out after the first Tatami.
Good enough for you? Or are you just gonna ignore this, like you do everything else?
quote:
I am not assuming anything and I am not putting words in your mouth...in the scenario you suggest is one who is blindly using the move but a good Baiken player would know not to do that...lol then you take it personall...geez lighten up.
I never suggested any scenario like the one you described; you made that up in your head with that overactive imagination of yours that says you're always right. You think I should be happy that someone is manipulating what I say into some argument so he doesn't have to actually answer my questions? I don't play that shit.
quote:
Yes you will be able to ukemi...when I am done with the combo...so you're right..sort of.
Uh, no. You are wrong. Combo into Tatami Gaeshi, and unless you're in the corner, you can't combo anything else. Period.
quote:
see for yourself sometime...Tatami floors the opponent and does more damage than a sweep and you can't throw a floored opponent
So you're saying that Tatami Gaeshi hits someone who has ALREADY BEEN KNOCKED DOWN? Ah, I see. You call hitting someone on the ground "flooring", not OTG like most people. And yet, you'd be better off doing a F+HS linked to a sweep, for two reasons. One, it does more damage. Two, the opponent cannot Ukemi from being hit off of the ground. You see, if you do a one-hit OTG on a grounded opponent, they can tech off of the ground and come right back at you. So two-hit OTGs are better.
quote:
...you can't grab them if they are on the freak'n floor and you can't ukemi if you are floored.
A misunderstanding. No, you can't throw someone off of the ground, but they sure as hell can ukemi if you only hit them once. Try it on the computer when Ukemi is turned on, it'll get up easily.
quote:
Also yes you can ukemi 1 hit OTGs but after a certain time and it depends on the attack...in this case if done correctly you can't ukemi out of the combo because you will hit by a combo before you can recover.
Um, no. You can ukemi a 1 hit OTG easily. If you time the OTG too late, then it won't hit their body anyway.
quote:
So if the jump is possible then you realize you can't ukemi if done correctly and you will be pretty low to the ground at the end of the combo that the opponent can be hit when they are on the floor.
NO. If you hit your opponent with a Tatami Gaeshi in a combo, then you have enough time to jump up and hit them with a short air combo before they can Ukemi away from the Tatami, but even this doesn't guarantee that you will knock them down, which means you won't get the opportunity to floor them.
quote:
Nonononononononoononononononono NO! You're not understanding. If you set the computer like that you will realize what can be Ukemi and at what time or how much time you have to combo someone dizzy if they know how to recover quickly
NONONONONONONONONO!!!! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!!! If you hit someone counter hit into the air, they CAN'T Ukemi, ever! So moves that you do which seem unrecoverable may actually be recoverable. Hit your opponent with a Tatami Gaeshi while the Guard Meter is at NORMAL settings, and they'll recover away.
quote:
...stuff like that...it's like playing the best tech user possible...it's where you can figure out things like your combo timing.
HOW? Damnit, Guard Meter at MAX means that your opponent can't ever recover! And the computer isn't always fully accurate about teching!!
quote tongue:
And you call me childish? Hypocrite.
quote:
Half of those I know have lag long enough to counter with.
c.K doesn't have that lag. f+P doesn't have that lag. A s.HS will be immediately followed by a Gamma Blade, pushing Chipp out of range for the counter, and c.HS will be FDC'ed, which removes all lag.
quote:
Also you mention Chipp and given that Baiken can just cancel most of his attacks with a tatami alone.
You must get hit by lots of counterhit c.HSlashes.
quote:
Also if you FDC something like a c.HS 1 of three things will happen:
1)If timed well Counter will hit the opponent
No.
quote:
2)If timed well Counter disrupts the followp
There is no followup. FDC, block the counter, dash and do it again. This is one of Chipp's primary tactics. You'll be busy countering his FDC'ed c.HS, but you won't ever hit him, and your guard meter will go sky-high. Then all you have to do is mess up ONCE, and Chipp can kill you right then and there.
quote:
You just mentioned a risk on Sol behalf that could very well play into Baiken's favor given that Sol is ridden with laggy moves...that's counter bait.
How many times do I have to mention FDC? FDC CANCELS LAG. IT CANCELS IT. NO LAG. NONE. NO CHANCE FOR YOUR COUNTER TO HIT.
Do you get it yet, or are you just stupid?
quote:
And he hardly has any attacks that Baiken's specials or counters can't stop or get around
Sol's pokes are higher in priority, and his moves have invincibility frames that will break through Baiken's moves easily.
quote:
...I explained why earlier and Sol does need his overhead specials to take on Baiken. Sol has a very good air game...that's why.
Sol can absolutely dominate Baiken on the ground. With FDC, he doesn't have to worry about counters and he can rush as much as he likes, so he doesn't need any overheads of any kind.
quote:
I don't see how it's my mistake but whatever...have it your way...not going to hold it against you.
You misread my statments and misinterpreted them; thus, it's your mistake.
quote:
You did.
Bullshit.
quote:
May I ask how in god's green earth you would think that was assuming?
You're taking my statements out of context and saying that they mean something other than what they really mean! You're making assumptions on what I'm trying to say, and those assumptions are wrong.
quote:
More lame theory fighter arugment
You mean like every argument you've made in this exchange? "If you know what you're doing, if you know what you're doing", that is nothing BUT theory fighter, because you don't ever back it up.
quote:
...okay whatever...any way if you try to teleport away from my attack you risk getting hit...why? Because there is a high recovery time with the move.
Wrong. Not if I use a Punch teleport when you jump at me. I'll be behind you in a second, and you won't be able to do much about it because you're still in the air and I'm behind you.
quote:
Also with the ability to jump Chipp cannot do half as well given that his limited option to attack makes most of his specials useless to use since they pose a great risk because Chipp cannot recover and get out of the way of an on coming assault
Do you REALLY think you know Chipp? His specials are FAR from useless. Alpha Blade, when used in the correct position, is very difficult to punish. Gamma Blade pushes your oppoonent away and keeps them from approaching you. And Beta Blade is used as a countermove or in combos, not by itself. His Leaves of Vanishing throw is wonderful okizeme and you can mix it up in chains to keep your opponent guessing. Does this mean that Chipp doesn't need to jump? No. But he sure as hell can fight on the ground better than you're implying.
quote:
...seriously...try to play Chipp without jumping once...try it for 8 or 9 seconds against someone really good you'll understand better.
Done it before. The most common time that I jump is when I'm doing a combo and I want to follow in the air, or when someone jumps at me. Most of my offensive involves dashing, not jumping. Dashing is much better for Chipp's aggressive style.
quote:
Also don't try to assume how I play Chipp...yes he is a scrub main choice but that doesn't mean I play like a scrub.
Granted. I won't do that again.
quote:
His "ultra high priority normals" are not good without his specials to give him distance, combos or start is traps.
Oh yes they are. Johnny doesn't need his specials for combos. His two command moves easily fit into ground strings and end up leading to air combos. With his jump Kick and Hard Slash, he can leap around as much as he wishes with no worries of you countering him. And this is assuming you even get to touch him with that super counter of yours; assuming that he knows his stuff, any good Johnny player will have you Mist Trapped before you know it.
quote:
Also since most of Johnny's attacks hit once suzuran is perfect for getting in close...Try to play Johnny without using a special once...try it for 8 or 9 seconds against someone really good you'll understand better.
Man, you're so repetitive. I already explained clear countermeasures for Suzuran. It's worthless. Johnny can easily poke you out of it with a low move or sweep.
quote:
OMG! Stop playing theory fighter it proves nothing! Also your argument is bunk if Dizzy's strength is weakened.
In other words, you have no response. It doesn't MATTER if Dizzy's strength is weakened, because she still has her normal fighting capabilities; she simply doesn't do as much damage. If you can't touch her because she continues to combo you and knock you down, then it doesn't matter if she's dealing less damage. My argument isn't bunk; you're just full of shit and you have no real response.
quote:
We went through this and you are only at best 1/3 right.
We did indeed go through this, and I am completely right.
quote:
FDC's shave off some of the lag is most moves but not all of them...as long as there is some lag if timed well a counter will work or stop the attack
There isn't enough lag for the counter to work, though. We're talking 3 frames. A tenth of a second of lag. There's simply no room for it.
quote:
In GG she would die? I think not given that in GG a GGX Baiken would take out most of the attacks opponents threw at her...and I don't recall there being any FDCs and you still didn't cover the versatility issue.
Not really. I've already explained why her defense isn't as good as you insist that it is, and I doubt that her counters would do anything to a DI Volcanic Viper in GG. That game was all rush; without the superior offensive abilities of her GG counterpart's offense, GGX Baiken wouldn't be anywhere near as good.
quote:
Another copout...or is that a contradiction? Or is that both?
No, you're the one copping out. Nice try.
quote:
If Suzuran connects with an attack most of the time it gives Baiken time to counter with her own attack...it basically does nullify the attack since you plow right through it.
The opponent is still able to link to another attack, and MOST of the time, Baiken ends up running right into their next attack and eating it.
quote:
If you hit a Baiken using a Suzuran with a slash you won't have time to safely do a grand viper. Yeah...I do think it's a relatively safe move.
Plenty of time, considering that Grand Viper is very fast and has a moment of invulnerability at the beginning. I'd either hit you out of Suzuran or blow through whatever move you tried next.
quote:
Let's get the record straight...you ignore what I say and what you do in return is go "no it isn't" then insult then state your opinion on if something "sucks" or "not effective"
I have rebutted every single statement that you've made, and you know it. Now stop bullshitting.
quote:
then insult some more and say I haven't provided any information to back up my claims
You damn well haven't. You simply mention the move and say it works, then when I ask you to prove it, you ignore me.
quote:
then have the nerve to call me a hypocrite...and you say that I am biased.
You are a hypocrite, an immense one. And EVERYONE is biased in one way or another.
quote:
I think this is pot calling the kettle black.
And I think you're full of it.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
|
| Beast of Fire
25th Post
Rare Customer
| "Re(10):A comparison of GG and GGX Baiken...." , posted Tue 28 May 12:51
quote:
I have shown to be arrogant and single minded when YOU are the one cursing and calling people names because they don't agree with you!?
Arrogance in the way that you REFUSE to take anyone's opinion other than your own, and that you view your own opinions as viable facts. Single-mindedness in that you refuse to be open to anyone else's opinions.
quote:
I haven't done anything like you! You used to have respect for me? How could you have respect for anything with the way you act? Or maybe you respect those who agree with you...well I guess you don't respect a lot of people...
Oh, so now we're going into covert insults, eh? So since I don't respect you, that means I don't respect anyone? Since I use cursewords, that means I don't respect anyone? Who exactly appointed you as king of the world, Shin? Such arrogance. You make me sick. I curse because I feel like it. And again, you view your opinions as being fact and completely correct by saying that everyone thinks the way you do, since they OBVIOUSLY don't agree with me, which is why I don't respect them! Brilliant! You should win a Nobel Prize! [rolleyes]
Ass. That's all you are. An arrogant, self-centered ass. And on top of that, you get mad at me for insulting you when you try to insult me and make it look like you're just passing conversation? A hypocrite and an ass.
quote:
I guess since they don't agree with you they are disrespecting you huh? Whatever....
Shut your fucking mouth. The only person here that I'm lacking respect for right now is YOU. And no, it's not because we have a difference of opinion; it's because you continuously promote YOUR opinions as if they are laws handed down from the heavens. I reiterate, you make me fucking sick. Punks like you who act all high-and-mighty and ignore other people's comments while continuously pushing your own are the worst. I literally gave rebuttals for every single claim you made in your arguments, and more than half of the time, you ignored them completely and restated your own arguments. Arguing with you is a waste of anyone's time, you're so thick-headed.
quote:
I am not calling you childish...I am calling your insults childish...there is a difference. See unlike you I attack your posts not you personally.
You call my insults and the way I speak childish. You thus imply that I do childish things, and therefore I'm childish.
See, this is the kind of crap you pull. You take statements and do a runaround of them, twisting their meanings around to your favor, so no one can see what an ass you really are. You must be the best lawyer in your state.
I don't think I can remember the last time I had such a frustrating argument. Forget this.
Fear me for I will engulf your soul in a sea of endless inferno!!
|
| ONSLAUGHT 2029th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(9):Mmmhh..." , posted Tue 28 May 23:01
quote:
Ah, cool, I will try to beat survival some time later then.
I wish you luck, as beating survival-mode is really, really hard... I got the game as soon as it hit the DC, and even now that I started doing "Daily Survival Runs" I still haven't finished it (I get to Zato, but I can't beat him). This was the experience of someone who is merely "good" at GGX, so it could be different for you.
To all of you out there who have completed Survival, congrats. You deserve that at least.
This sounds like a real challenge! I will inform how hard it is, I'm not a very good player at GGX, but I'm really cheap with Venom, ha ha.
|
|
|
"Heh." 
"Re(8):Mmmhh..."