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| DKW
77th Post
 
Occasional Customer
  
|  "Bao hater hater here"
, posted Wed 15 May 22:37
All right, normally I try to steer away from controversy, but I will NOT remain silent on this.
As you all are probably aware, Bao isn’t very popular. In fact, he may be the most hated King of Fighters competitor ever, and, considering the record of Chang Koehan and Choi Bounge, that’s saying a lot. And I’m well aware that on the off chance that Playmore’s actually going to use the responses to their questionnaire to decides who stays and who goes in KOF ’02, Bao is outta there.
So let me just say that I find the hating of the little tyke ridiculous. And I want him to be in KOF for as long as it exists. And I defy anyone to come up with a sound REASON as to why he should go.
Lessee...“A boy with amazing psychic powers is weird.” Of course it is. As is an ordinary young man who had to repeat a hear of high school having amazing fire powers. Or a brawler from the mean streets of Southtown being able to shoot energy waves out of his hands. Or a military commander draining the health out of his enemies with a touch. To paraphrase Mary Ryan, it’s not about logic, it’s about bashing faces in. Fighting games have never been “logical”, and it’s silly to demand it from KOF.
“His gameplay is annoying.” Funny, I often hear the same things about Iori Yagami, Joe Higashi, Choi Bounge et al, and no one ever calls for them go get tossed. His “annoying” tactics are something you have to overcome, same as Chang Koehan’s brute strength and autoguard hell, Takuma Sakazakis dangerous ground game, or Chin Gentsai’s unpredictability. “Hard to beat with my usual style” is an incredibly weak reason for giving a character the boot...KOF might be down to 12 people if that were the case.
“His gameplay is one-dimensional.” If KOF were a 1-on-1 fighter with, say, only 16 characters, I can see where that’d be a problem. But it’s a team game, which means that there’s a place for everybody. Think Whip would stand a chance if she didn’t have her Ikari Warriors buddies backing her up? Think ANYONE would give Maxima the time of day if he weren’t partnered with K? Furthermore, one of the best things about KOF is the richness and diversity of its lineup. I would much rather have a fighting game full of weird, strange, offbeat fighting styles which were unique from each other than one where everyone was so incredibly balanced that no one stood out from any of the others.
And as for his heavily psycho ball-based gameplay...look, the era of King Fireball began and ended with Street Fighter 2. Got it? No one is going to beat a halfway-intelligent opponent by just tossing psycho balls all day. Well, there’s Krizalid, but since when does he deserve any mercy?
And why is this an issue, anyway? Attacks can be changed. Effectiveness of attacks can be changed. Priorities, speeds, damages, angles, distances, all these can be changed. Styles can be changed, toned up, toned down, tweaked, and overhauled. Good lord, how many changes have Ryo S and Robert G gone through since Art of Fighting the First? Simply put, if the machine don’t run right, the thing to do is make it run right, not destroy it.
“He sounds like a girl.” I actually saw this somewhere. It’s a non-starter, of course. (What do you think of Choi, anyway?)
“He stole Sie’s powers.” Leaving aside the fact that this is an extremely speculative assertion which WAS NEVER CONFIRMED ANYWHERE (not even in a half-baked “official statement”), Sie didn’t seem to suffer much from the loss. And Sie got his powers back in ’01. So no harm, no foul,, all right??
“His story is dumb.” I could point out any number of KOF stories I find a lot dumber. Start with “Women’s Team, ’99”...
So why am I so concerned? Because this attitude has already badly hurt KOF. I remember that there was a colossal backlash against the Sports Team shortly after ’94. Why? Because they had unusual gameplay. And big sprites. Reasons which, in retrospect, sound totally ridiculous, but it was enough to keep SNK from ever developing them further. And then the super-overhyped Kyo-Iori rivalry necessitated writing storylines that revolved ENTIRELY AROUND THEM, making everyone else essentially meaningless. But we shouldn’t feel too sorry for those old teams, ‘cause at least they’re still around, not unlike the New Face Team, Vice, and Mature...primarily because they were so completely attached to a single storyline (Orochi), once that went, there was no reason to keep them around. Well, SNK could have kept them around, but that would’ve turned KOF into a Dream Match. Wait a minute, wasn’t it already a dream match? Oh, right...the super-diehard fans insisted on making ’98 different from the other games. After all, it had dead people and the SPORTS TEAM, so no WAY it could be “real” (whatever the hell that means), right? Meaning that any game with them is a “nonexistent” Dream Match, meaning that if their successors want to continue with any story at all, they’d have to leave them in the cold.
We’ve lost some of the most unique, fun-to-play characters in KOF as a direct result of the irrationality of a whiny handful of fans. I most definitely do not want to lose another.
homepage - http://home.hawaii.rr.com/dkwff
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| Iron D 1735th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
 
    
    
    
 
| "Re(1):Bao hater hater here" , posted Wed 15 May 23:36:
There's a huge number of things that people on the net like to rag on. The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, the Shotokan characters, 3d games (especially here)...and yes, it's very, VERY annoying. But I guess that people just like what they like. I'm trying to live with this stuff (and if you ask me I'm doing a pretty good job at it), and I realize that people just have a different opinion than mine.
However, I've often felt that the constant bashing of the Shotokan characters is largely a case of people trying to jump on the bandwagon. I'm sick of people not liking the Shotokan characters just because "they're too popular" or they're "played as too much" or "I'm sick of losing to (insert Shotokan character here)".
And as for those that jump on Tekken, many (and dare I say, most) of the people that do so don't even put a substancial amount of time into the game to really make a valid argument.
But, you come to realize that most people just have their opinions, or are too stubborn to actually do some research on whatever they're bashing. There's nothing you can do about it, but live with it. It's as simple as that.
Since I seem to be getting off the subject, let me say what I said in another thread that was about Bao haters. I personally think that Bao IS a crappy character, but I still don't think he's as bad as a lot of other KoF characters. I'd rather have him in the game than Ryo, Athena, Takuma, Lucky Glauber, Brian Battler, Yuri, Kensou, Choi, Chang, K', Maxima, Blue Mary, Ralf, Clark, Heidern, and Hinako, but hey, that's just me.
[this message was edited by Iron D on Wed 15 May 23:44] |
| Hungrywolf 880th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(2):Bao hater hater here" , posted Thu 16 May 08:48
quote:
There's a huge number of things that people on the net like to rag on. The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, the Shotokan characters, 3d games (especially here)...and yes, it's very, VERY annoying. But I guess that people just like what they like. I'm trying to live with this stuff (and if you ask me I'm doing a pretty good job at it), and I realize that people just have a different opinion than mine.
However, I've often felt that the constant bashing of the Shotokan characters is largely a case of people trying to jump on the bandwagon. I'm sick of people not liking the Shotokan characters just because "they're too popular" or they're "played as too much" or "I'm sick of losing to (insert Shotokan character here)".
And as for those that jump on Tekken, many (and dare I say, most) of the people that do so don't even put a substancial amount of time into the game to really make a valid argument.
But, you come to realize that most people just have their opinions, or are too stubborn to actually do some research on whatever they're bashing. There's nothing you can do about it, but live with it. It's as simple as that.
Since I seem to be getting off the subject, let me say what I said in another thread that was about Bao haters. I personally think that Bao IS a crappy character, but I still don't think he's as bad as a lot of other KoF characters. I'd rather have him in the game than Ryo, Athena, Takuma, Lucky Glauber, Brian Battler, Yuri, Kensou, Choi, Chang, K', Maxima, Blue Mary, Ralf, Clark, Heidern, and Hinako, but hey, that's just me.
You'd rather have Bao than Blue Mary???? You are sick, Iron D. SICK, SICK, SICK, SICK, SICK! On a side note, I am a proud Bao fan. Terry is still the best.
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| Hungrywolf 885th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(1):(Taps Hungrywolf)" , posted Thu 16 May 20:37
quote:
You'd rather have Bao than Blue Mary???? You are sick, Iron D. SICK, SICK, SICK, SICK, SICK! On a side note, I am a proud Bao fan. Terry is still the best.
Iron D is actually the evil one. I just claim to be the evil twin to make him feel better... 
Back on subject, I'm a Bao fan. It is my duty as the Champion of the Underrated to like Bao. Psycho power kicks!
I hear ya, he must be evil. I mean, Mary is the greatest female fighter of all time, and all of her attacks are regular, no ki type stuff at all. That's like him saying he'd rather have Bao in it than Terry. I think it's cool that you like underrated characters. I do too, most of the time (though I don't like Blanka, but that is because of a friend of mine who uses him). Bao is pretty good, and I love the Psycho Soldiers (minus Chin, also because of my same friend who uses Chin in KoF)
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| DKW
79th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):Bao hater hater here" , posted Thu 16 May 21:28
Baghead - Yeah, well, I haven't witnessed any massive push to get Chang and Choi out of KOF recently. And in their case, you could at least argue that their story was getting boring. I find the tremendous hatred against Bao completely irrational, and, as someone who often sticks up for the underdog (what, the "avatar" didn't make that obvious enough?), I couldn't remain silent on this.
Also, every time someone mentions how long I write, my response is "What I want to know is, why don't you ever take the time to explain your position?"
Speaking of which...
JJJ - The beef is with his AGE??? Good effin' lord. I thought we were light years past that shallow crap by now.
And why didn't anyone have a beef with Shizumaru Hisame? (Yeah, he's older, but not that much older.) Or Chris? Or any number of ditzy, clueless, and, I might add, WEAK girls (hello, "Shin Sakura Kasugano"!)? Ridiculous.
TheBeast - "SERIOUSNESS" is an issue???? Man, that is just mind-blowing. Look, every serious fighting tournament has a number of fighters who aren't grim, diehard, blood-and-guts brawlers. Yuri Sakazki. Shingo Yabuki. The entire rest of the Psycho Soldiers team. Mai Shiranui. Ramon. Vanessa. King. Heck, you could make a case for Chang 'n Choi. And what the hell motivation does Bao...or anyone, for that matter...need other than a shiny trophy and a big winner's check? This may come as a shock to you, but there was a time when great duty and sacrifice and clan affiliation and the path of the warrior etc. etc. were not the big motivating factors for entering a worldwide fighting extravaganza. Bao is just a little older-school than K and company.
everyone - Look...I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. But anytime something draws an incredible amount of ire, and I don't have a clue why (given the incredibly half-baked excuses, that's not a surprise), I demand an explanation. As far as I know, Bao is a sweet, somewhat naieve kid who didn't quite know what he was getting into in '99, but has developed into a solid competitor. And his story is developing. What is there to hate?
homepage - http://home.hawaii.rr.com/dkwff
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| Dr Baghead 912th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(3):Bao hater hater here" , posted Thu 16 May 21:46
quote:
Baghead - Yeah, well, I haven't witnessed any massive push to get Chang and Choi out of KOF recently. And in their case, you could at least argue that their story was getting boring. I find the tremendous hatred against Bao completely irrational, and, as someone who often sticks up for the underdog (what, the "avatar" didn't make that obvious enough?), I couldn't remain silent on this.
Also, every time someone mentions how long I write, my response is "What I want to know is, why don't you ever take the time to explain your position?"
Chang and Choi's story is getting boring?!?! Bao's story was worthless before he was even a day old! If it's storyline worth we're going by it's time to burry KoF since no one is needed any more storyline wise!
Chang and Choi are more likely then not waiting in the same line as Bao to get the axe, there isn't a huge movement to get rid of them yet but just you wait until the next time there's a poll... or better ask "so how don't you like in CvS2" guess how many hate Chang and Choi?
Completely Irrational? I think it's more irrational to NOT hate Bao, but maybe I'm more irrational still since I like Chang and Choi.
at least Chang and Choi have good teammates... Kim, Jhun, Mei Lee... whose Bao got? Athena, Sie, Chin... they need to drop the whole team, Athena's getting old so the whole "teen idol singer" thing is getting sad, Chin is hated as much and Choi, Chang, and Bao, and Sie has to go since he likes the worthless Athena...
are you happy? I took the time to explain my postion.
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| Iron D 1736th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Let's get this straight" , posted Fri 17 May 00:39
quote:
Ha ha ha, D just hates everybody in KOF. ^_^
I'm not sure whether or not this was meant as a joke, but I'll clear things up a bit. True, I hate MOST of the KoF characters, but by no means do I hate all of them. The best example is the almighty RYUJI YAMAZAKI, who is definitely among my favorite characters of all time. He just ROCKS!!! Other favorites include Terry, Iori, Chizuru, Rugal (NOT Omega Rugal), Kula, Saisyu, Joe, Billy Kane, Krauser, Geese, and (sigh) Leona. I know that when looking at the overall roster of the entire KoF series that this is a small number of characters, but that's just my personal taste.
Hungrywolf: Okay, perhaps Blue Mary is more fun to play as, but I like Bao better as a character (which really isn't saying much). I'd much, MUCH rather here Bao than have to hear Blue Mary scream "FALCON ARRAAAAAAH!!!" again. That voice alone would kill any KoF boss...
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| Juke Joint Jezebel 362th Post
Silver Customer
|  "Re(6):Bao hater hater here"
, posted Fri 17 May 01:56
quote:
Whether someone is for or against a certain character is their decision. If you used an underdog against someone and they reply with, "why'd you pick so-and-so? He/she sucks!!!", respond by promptly schooling their ass. Press the underestimation to your advantage
ehehe, i love doing that. i've defeated so many of my friends and people at the arcade with the "innocent" schoolgirls and "wimpy" characters of fighting games. i've actually taught them to fear Xiaoyu, Athena, Sakura, Karin, and several others
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JJJ - The beef is with his AGE??? Good effin' lord. I thought we were light years past that shallow crap by now.
sorry, dude. maybe i am that shallow. when i was a child, and even now, i put age into the amount of ability i expect from a person. maybe it's just me, but i fear those older than me in almost everything. they've been around longer than i have and have enough knowledge to do as they wish. as for younger people, i see them as inexperienced and still new to things. i know i shouldn't use age as a measurement of skill. i've gotten my ass beat in games, sports, and other competetive things by those younger than me because of underestimation. you should listen to Rugal's advice. just calm down. there's a lot of Bao supporters here, including me
oh, and Baghead, if DKW wants to write articles of why he thinks this or that, just let him. i think we're all entitled to do whatever we wish, as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else
and uh lighten up on Athena, people ^_^ she can't possibly be that bad  can she? 
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"Re(2):Bao hater hater here" 
kill Mufasa?
Okay, perhaps Blue Mary is more fun to play as, but I like Bao better as a character (which really isn't saying much). I'd much, MUCH rather here Bao than have to hear Blue Mary scream "FALCON ARRAAAAAAH!!!" again. That voice alone would kill any KoF boss... 
