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| ONSLAUGHT 1963th Post
 
Gold Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
   
    
    
    
    
|  "Mmmhh..."
, posted Sat 11 May 21:11
quote:
Oh my gods... would those people shut up? Ok.. so I'm a US citizen... I even have relatives in NY (though not NYC I think..). I think is kinda sad people lost their lives.. but... the US WAS askin' for it (not that I agree with what happened). It's my personal opinion that the US is entirely too arrogant and pushy. SOMEONE would have given us the slap in the face sooner or later.. if not the terrorists then it could have been China, maybe Russia. Who knows? But like a pushy little bully on the school grounds.. eventually someone was going to put us in our place. I wasn't surprised.... and how long ARE they going to beg for sympathy? That's nice... we gave you money.. now go rebuild your life in peace. ¬_¬ That way EVERYONE is happy.
WOW! I think I would have been happier not reading that arrogant/ignorant rant.... I mean seriously, how is the US like a school yard bully? who the Hell are picking on just for the hell of it? and why the Hell would Russia, who are our allies now, try to bomb us?.... I don't know I haven't watched the new lately, maybe I missed the part were we're bombing Peru so they'll give us their lunch money...
Oh, come on Baghead my friend, be a bit fair with Tashoku...
I'm not going to say why, but I agree 100% with Tashoku, and I think she was refering at Russia and China figuratively speaking, not as a fact...
Anyway, everyone has a different point of view on this...
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| Time Mage 498th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(4):LOTR sequel and WTC tragedy... WTF?!" , posted Sun 12 May 06:04
quote:
Uh, he wrote the book in like the 40's? 50's? I don't think that the towers were up then. The two towers are two towers in the book, although it's never really been established which two. It could be Baradur and the huge tower in Gondor (sorry, the real names are escaping me) or Suraman's towers at Isengard, or i think there's even a couple more it could be...Needless to say, despite these facts, good ol J.R.R. is almost certainly a fanatical member of the vicious al-Qaeda network, and must be shot on sight.
The title refers to Orthanc, in Isengard and Barad-dûr, in Mordor.
Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
The first part of the books treats about the war against Saruman, and he lives in Orthanc, the tower in the middle of the natural fortress of Isengard. The second part takes place in the journey of Frodo, Sam and Gollum to Mordor (where Barad-dûr is, and where lives Sauron).
End of Spoiler
Personally, I think that some many people in the US think the're the center of the world. Tolkien did not thought in the US when he wrote the books, and of course, the idea of the title "The Two Towers" refering to the WTC is simply... STUPID
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| RugalBernstein 1798th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(2):Mmmhh..." , posted Sun 12 May 15:26
While I agree with your stance on religious radicals ( they're no good for anyone or anything ) from an international perspective, the U.S. DOES have the bad habit of throwing its economic weight around to force others to do what it wants. Of course, there are the obvious " frankenfood " issues, which America is constantly trying to get through... but not too long ago, the U.S. tried to force American bananas on the U.K. Now, England can get bananas for cheap from India, which is part of the Commonwealth. Buying American bananas would mean higher prices, losses of jobs in India, and possible importation of bad old frankenfood. But the U.S. threatened to put tariffs on British goods in America unless Britain acquiesced. Fortunately, this was right about the time the Microsoft trials started, so a ban on Microsoft products was discussed, and the U.S. backed down. There are plenty of other examples, too. A " bully " is actually a pretty good description of American economic habits. It's more of a pain in the ass than anything else, though. The reason Al Qaeda and many others hate the U.S. is because of its foreign policy habits. Particularly in the Middle East, the U.S. is a bit of a rotter. The Iran Hostage Crisis was more or less caused by U.S. involvment in Iran beforehand, and Desert Storm was based on oil, not saving the Kuwaitis. In fact, mass genocides were occuring in Africa during Desert Storm, but the U.S. did nothing, because Africa is still largely composed of " developing nations ".. I.E., there's little or no money there.
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| whitesword 717th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(2):Mmmhh..." , posted Sun 12 May 15:30
quote:
Oh, come on Baghead my friend, be a bit fair with Tashoku...
I'm not going to say why, but I agree 100% with Tashoku, and I think she was refering at Russia and China figuratively speaking, not as a fact...
Anyway, everyone has a different point of view on this...
I was being fair I wanted to say far worse...but you are right Onslaught people do have different views.
But I also don't get the whole "bully" thing (and it would be nice if Tashoku could come and clear up her statement)when in recent history has the US acted as a bully?
and more to the point how is an attack from a reiligous nut-case whose goal was to topple a country he saw as a reiligous impurity a wake up call to stop said "bullying"...
"Bullying" isn't that accurate a word, but there is little doubt that the US, like all other countries, cares more about its own interests than those of others, and in doing so, it has stood in the way of some people and stepped on some toes, that combined with its status as the strongest nation in the world, has made it a target for much hatred.
Er...it's like this, if the world is CvS2, the US would be a player using Sagat/Guile/Blanka team, nothing particularly bad about this player, but because he's always there hogging the arcade cabinet and beating you whenever you challenge him with your Kyosuke/Sakura/Yun team, you get a little annoyed.
Ok...I'm shutting up.
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| Tio
85th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(3):Mmmhh..." , posted Sun 12 May 16:45
In this particular case with the middle east, it's a lot simpler than that.
US helped Israel become independent as a pure jewish nation. They supply them with military equipment, which is used in war with the palestanians. Israel, who wants to keep the country purely a jewish nation, (as the president once quoated) doesn't want palestinian refugeees they kicked out to be allowed back in the country.
The palestenian refugees live in starvation and poverty. Many of them rely on terroism as the only counter measure they see.
It's an ugly war, with both sides in the wrong. Because US is on the side of Israel, the US is looked upon as the enemy. Israel would cease to exist without US backing it, since it's surrounded by arab nations that wants to destroy it.
Jews were treated horribly before Israel was founded, but only thing Israel is doing is revenge on the other race. Fighting hate with larger hatred doesn't solve anything. It only makes it worse.
It doesn't help that the top of US media and government has a huge Israeli jewish influence either.
I personally think that in any circumstances, terroism is a measure not to be condoned. But the other side of the war, in this case Israel and US, isn't any better.
I have to agree that Israel's military actions are "state terroism", and that US holds a double standard.
And the worst part of all this? US citizens are largely unaware of all this history, and the reason for why they are being hated. Innocence is not a bliss, when you are uninformed of why you're being targeted. US authorities and media under its influence, doesn't want the people to know of the country's dirty history.
People like president Bush wants a blind worshipping of the flag, and notion that the country is "good" and serves "justice to evil doers". Alas, there is no country that is the "good guy". All countries act on their own benefit, nothing more.
Tio
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Guild H/H on Asuka server
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| RugalBernstein 1804th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "Re(1):You know people that..." , posted Sun 12 May 17:12:
Tio is actually quite right. And before you go and blame it all on the Palestinians, you think about THIS: Why is it, that in this conflict, there have been almost 3 times as many Palestinian casualties than Israeli casualties? Think of it in this way: the Palestinians have nothing. They have no military, no country, and barely a facsimile of a government. Telling Arafat to " stop terrorism " is like telling Bush to " stop teen pregnancy " . You can't watch everyone at the same time. And whether you like it or not, the Israelis ARE being brutal, and they have been for a long, long time in that region. When Israel was founded in 1949 with U.S. support, it was less than half the size it is today. They took all that extra land through a policy of violence towards their neighbors. The first people to use " suicide bombing " tactics in that region of the world. A lot of the hatred and the situation is a byproduct of the cold war, anyway. The U.S. supports Israel to this day because it was one of the only U.S. friendly nations in the region. Neither side is right in this conflict, but the Israelis are NOT the innocents the U.S. media paints them to be. And as for the Jenin refugee camp.. if there was no mass slaughter there, as the Israelis claim, why are they so determined not to have anybody check? Hmmm... I've seen this somewhere before. -_-
BTW, I'm surprised more people in the U.S. don't support the Palestian state idea. I see many parallels between their situation and America's own fight for independence long ago.
[this message was edited by RugalBernstein on Sun 12 May 17:16] |
| Dr Baghead 893th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member++
| "Re(3):Mmmhh..." , posted Sun 12 May 17:17
quote:
While I agree with your stance on religious radicals ( they're no good for anyone or anything ) from an international perspective, the U.S. DOES have the bad habit of throwing its economic weight around to force others to do what it wants. Of course, there are the obvious " frankenfood " issues, which America is constantly trying to get through... but not too long ago, the U.S. tried to force American bananas on the U.K. Now, England can get bananas for cheap from India, which is part of the Commonwealth. Buying American bananas would mean higher prices, losses of jobs in India, and possible importation of bad old frankenfood. But the U.S. threatened to put tariffs on British goods in America unless Britain acquiesced. Fortunately, this was right about the time the Microsoft trials started, so a ban on Microsoft products was discussed, and the U.S. backed down. There are plenty of other examples, too. A " bully " is actually a pretty good description of American economic habits. It's more of a pain in the ass than anything else, though. The reason Al Qaeda and many others hate the U.S. is because of its foreign policy habits. Particularly in the Middle East, the U.S. is a bit of a rotter. The Iran Hostage Crisis was more or less caused by U.S. involvment in Iran beforehand, and Desert Storm was based on oil, not saving the Kuwaitis. In fact, mass genocides were occuring in Africa during Desert Storm, but the U.S. did nothing, because Africa is still largely composed of " developing nations ".. I.E., there's little or no money there.
ahhh, well now the whole "bully" thing makes sense... I took it from the context of how Tashoku said it as if the US was going and finding weaker countries and bombing them into buying our products and then giving them some money to rebuild so we don't look evil.
But when made clear "bully" reference more to using economics to strong arm other countries to trade agreements, or fighting in wars that aren't ours to ensure we can continue trading for certain goods then I have to agree the US is very much a bully...
although I still don't see how Osama's little buddies destroying the Trde Centers is putting us in our place for such economic tactics. And really I'm too tired to discuss it. Thanks for clearing up the bully matter though.
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| Shin ATproof 394th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(2):You know people that..." , posted Sun 12 May 19:04:
quote:
Shin... I knew people like you would rant off in anger before reading what I said.
Cool your head, and look at what I wrote.
I said nothing about justifying the terroism.
I only said, that you can't turn a blind eye to what one side is doing, and pointing finger at another. Nor did I say US deserves what it got.
The same terror was handed to other people, by US. I agree on fighting terroism, but I don't agree on turning a blind eye. Yes, Shin, I agree the terroists should be punished for what they have done. But separately from that, I think the US citizens should be aware of their government's double standard.
Do you GET what I'm saying now?
I'm sorry I didn't realize the whole world let alone this topic revolved around Tio...sorry. LOL.
The point of what I am saying if YOU care to read it is that REGARDLESS of what the US has done does NOT justify the spilling of blood of innocent people. Yes US started many problems and/or helped antagonize but my philosophy is "it's better to be pissed off than to be pissed on" but the focus should be the government NOT the people.
Turing a blind eye to the problem or whitewashing the facts IS a problem for everyone however I don't believe that the sins of one man( or many) should be weighed upon the shoulders of others equally when they have done no wrong.
The US government may be a bully but harming those at the WTC is something that I call "placing the blame" and to even imply or say something like "well they got what was coming to them because the US starts shit around the world" is a mixture of insanity, arrogance, ignorance and hypocrisy.
What I think we have here is a failure to communicate...it isn't just about you Tio...give it a rest.
[this message was edited by Shin ATproof on Sun 12 May 19:09] |
| Tio
90th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(3):You know people that..." , posted Sun 12 May 19:13:
quote:
Shin... I knew people like you would rant off in anger before reading what I said.
Cool your head, and look at what I wrote.
I said nothing about justifying the terroism.
I only said, that you can't turn a blind eye to what one side is doing, and pointing finger at another. Nor did I say US deserves what it got.
The same terror was handed to other people, by US. I agree on fighting terroism, but I don't agree on turning a blind eye. Yes, Shin, I agree the terroists should be punished for what they have done. But separately from that, I think the US citizens should be aware of their government's double standard.
Do you GET what I'm saying now?
I'm sorry I didn't realize the whole world let alone this topic revolved around Tio...sorry. LOL.
The point of what I am saying if YOU care to read it is that REGARDLESS of what the US has done does NOT justify the spilling of blood of innocent people. Yes US started many problems and/or helped antagonize but my philosophy is "it's better to be pissed off than to be pissed on" but the focus should be the government NOT the people.
Turing a blind eye to the problem or whitewashing the facts IS a problem for everyone however I don't believe that the sins of one man( or many) should be weighed upon the shoulders of others equally when they have done no wrong.
The US government may be a bully but harming those at the WTC is something that I call "placing the blame" and to even imply or say something like "well they got what was coming to them because the US starts shit around the world" is a mixture of insanity, arrogance, ignorance and hypocrisy.
What I think we have here is a failure to communicate...it isn't just about you Tio...give it a rest.
Obviously, you didn't even read my second post. No one here's justifying the actions taken by the terroism, or giving it excuses.
quotes from my last post.
"I said nothing about justifying the terroism."
"Nor did I say US deserves what it got."
And since you don't seem to read that from any of our posts, it's totally pointless for me to point this out.
If you're going to refuse to listen, and babble on, go right ahead... count me out.
Tio
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Guild H/H on Asuka server
[this message was edited by Tio on Sun 12 May 19:16] |
| Shin ATproof 395th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(4):You know people that..." , posted Sun 12 May 19:20
quote:
Shin... I knew people like you would rant off in anger before reading what I said.
Cool your head, and look at what I wrote.
I said nothing about justifying the terroism.
I only said, that you can't turn a blind eye to what one side is doing, and pointing finger at another. Nor did I say US deserves what it got.
The same terror was handed to other people, by US. I agree on fighting terroism, but I don't agree on turning a blind eye. Yes, Shin, I agree the terroists should be punished for what they have done. But separately from that, I think the US citizens should be aware of their government's double standard.
Do you GET what I'm saying now?
I'm sorry I didn't realize the whole world let alone this topic revolved around Tio...sorry. LOL.
The point of what I am saying if YOU care to read it is that REGARDLESS of what the US has done does NOT justify the spilling of blood of innocent people. Yes US started many problems and/or helped antagonize but my philosophy is "it's better to be pissed off than to be pissed on" but the focus should be the government NOT the people.
Turing a blind eye to the problem or whitewashing the facts IS a problem for everyone however I don't believe that the sins of one man( or many) should be weighed upon the shoulders of others equally when they have done no wrong.
The US government may be a bully but harming those at the WTC is something that I call "placing the blame" and to even imply or say something like "well they got what was coming to them because the US starts shit around the world" is a mixture of insanity, arrogance, ignorance and hypocrisy.
What I think we have here is a failure to communicate...it isn't just about you Tio...give it a rest.
Obviously, you didn't even read my second post. No one here's justifying the actions taken by the terroism, or giving it excuses.
quotes from my last post.
"I said nothing about justifying the terroism."
"Nor did I say US deserves what it got."
And since you don't seem to read that from any of our posts, it's totally pointless for me to point this out.
If you're going to refuse to listen, and babble on, go right ahead... count me out.
You are asking me to understand you but you don't take to notice that 1)It isn't totally about what you said 2)I am sharing my own personal views of the WTC incident 3)I recognize what you mean and what others are saying about the US being a "bully" etc etc
But you got your head stuck up far your ass that you apparently don't care to listen to someone who is almost agreeing with you but has a different point of view of the matter...
but Have it your way Mr.This topic revolves around me
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| Time Mage 506th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(6):You know people that..." , posted Mon 13 May 02:57
I've arrived late to this topic, but let me say this: TOTAL agree with Tio and RugalBernstein.
Israelies are commiting state terrorism against the palestinians. In fact, many people from Israel, apart from the radicals and the government, are very bored of this situation. They just want be peaceful.
Palestinians are poor people that have been massacred in the past by their own arabian "friends" (see: the Jordanians). Now, they're been massacred also by the Israeli government, and they react instigated by religion and some terrorism instigators, such as Bin Laden and (I suspect) Arafat (at least by don't doing al he can against terrorism).
This is a very complicated situation, but what's clear is that the powerful ones here are the Israelies, and they're taking benefit from the US support.
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| Radish
15th Post
New Customer
| "Re(7):You know people that..." , posted Mon 13 May 04:34:
quote:
I've arrived late to this topic, but let me say this: TOTAL agree with Tio and RugalBernstein.
Israelies are commiting state terrorism against the palestinians. In fact, many people from Israel, apart from the radicals and the government, are very bored of this situation. They just want be peaceful.
Palestinians are poor people that have been massacred in the past by their own arabian "friends" (see: the Jordanians). Now, they're been massacred also by the Israeli government, and they react instigated by religion and some terrorism instigators, such as Bin Laden and (I suspect) Arafat (at least by don't doing al he can against terrorism).
This is a very complicated situation, but what's clear is that the powerful ones here are the Israelies, and they're taking benefit from the US support.
Well, I don't really think that you can call the Israelis terrorists since whenever they do any military action, the target is clearly hostile. However the Palestinians specifically target civilians. During the “Jenin Massacre" the Israeli military announced they were going to go into Jenin in advance and sent foot soldiers in. The final casualties were some 30 Israeli soldiers to 56 Palestinians. If the Israeli military was really as unconcerned with civilian casualties as some believe I’m sure that those figures would be much more lopsided.
I agree that the Palestinians deserve their own country and all but the most right wing of Israel has more or less agreed to giving them the West Bank, but they don't want to create a state under the pressure of terrorism. The Palestinians have had the worst leadership throughout the 50 years of their existence in Israel than almost any other people. If their leaders had simply taken what was given to them when Israel was established or what was offered two years ago, this wouldn't be an issue. The people of Palestine legitimately want peace and stability, but their leadership has turned this into an issue of destroying a Jewish Israel (see PLO charter.)
EDIT: Well, a chuck of my argument has gone down the crapper as I read the front page of the Washington Post this morning. Apparently Sharon's party is opposing him and rallying for never allowing a Palestinian state. I don't think that is going to help this situation at all and leave many Palestinians feeling desperate and hopeless. I guess we'll have to wait and see what evolves from this...
[this message was edited by Radish on Mon 13 May 05:16] |
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